OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[Puzzles8]

The barn that is a stock barn, does not have a pad, and it was just about finished in June of 2016. The home was still white around that time too. (SeeDefFarms FB). The other was open sided and didn't have a concrete floor either, that I could tell anyway. (see Redfin Realtor's site)

Thanks, after looking at R/E pics I do see the building has no solid floor.

 

[Puzzles8]

Okay......since the alleged hacking/spying type charges begin in or about July 2014 thru May 2017, is it your position this was JW searching for access to HR phone & SM activity? Then, he abruptly stopped? If so, wonder why the other 3 have the same charges. Unless the investigation only shows such activity took place from W’s computer & there’s no way to determine who was using the computer, so charge them all.
Why would the W’s wish to “spy” a year after the murders? I would assume the phones & accounts were deactivated.
The indictments don’t reveal the name/s of the person/s the W’s attempted or actually did “spy” on, to be clear.

Can this be just a bit more confusing?

I think you have something here.
Why would W's continue to access any of the 8's a/c's after the murders??
I believe the W4 were getting into someone(s) else's a/c's until 5/9/2017, who's a/c's?????
Timing on 5/9/2017 is also interesting, lots was going on then, big searches (SWAT) of the Flying W and the packed trailers on 41. Lots of W4 interviews with LE. Also, within weeks of their departure for Alaska.
Completely my speculation and MOO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think you have something here.
Why would W's continue to access any of the 8's a/c's after the murders??
I believe the W4 were getting into someone(s) else's a/c's until 5/9/2017, who's a/c's?????
Timing on 5/9/2017 is also interesting, lots was going on then, big searches (SWAT) of the Flying W and the packed trailers on 41. Lots of W4 interviews with LE. Also, within weeks of their departure for Alaska.
Completely my speculation and MOO

Mcould they have been monitoring LE computers cell phones or BCI encrypted radios? It would take a higher level of knowledge. Or perhaps prosecutors would have been easier for warrants.

 

[Trudie]

I think you have something here.
Why would W's continue to access any of the 8's a/c's after the murders??
I believe the W4 were getting into someone(s) else's a/c's until 5/9/2017, who's a/c's?????
Timing on 5/9/2017 is also interesting, lots was going on then, big searches (SWAT) of the Flying W and the packed trailers on 41. Lots of W4 interviews with LE. Also, within weeks of their departure for Alaska.
Completely my speculation and MOO

Exactly. Did they stop 5/9/17 out of necessity in preparation of their move? As in they no longer had capability? No time?
Back in ‘14 when they started their behavior, was it to monitor HR? Or a dif’ R, all of the Rs, or??? JW was with HRca lot of this time, it appears. Or she was with his family, IMO. So, who were they monitoring & for what reasons.
I wonder to, did they actually attempt to procure another person to help or is the law written to include that language. I’m going to check that law, later. If they did attempt to procure another, that person talked or thru their interceptions LE was able to ID him/her.


MOO

 

[Trudie]

I'm just saying that it could be that simple. JW could get HMR's passcode ,(for example), somehow, or have possibly guessed her password, combine that passcode, with a phone number, and/or email add, and that can get you into a lot of places sometimes.

I agree. I don’t know the level of sophistication or number of persons they were spying on. Would it be one charge for ea person, or can it be multiple devices owned by more than one person, all lumped together? If you know?

Lawriter - ORC - 2933.52 Interception of wire, oral or electronic communications.

This is pretty informative, imo.^^

 

[Trudie]

I'm just saying that it could be that simple. JW could get HMR's passcode ,(for example), somehow, or have possibly guessed her password, combine that passcode, with a phone number, and/or email add, and that can get you into a lot of places sometimes.

I suppose the charges could be nothing more than the W’s monitoring SM after the murders. Idk I find the dates interesting.
Because of the inclusiveness of the OH code, it may be nothing. MOO

 

[Trudie]

Lawriter - ORC - 2913.04 Unauthorized use of property - computer, cable, or telecommunication property.

Read this is relation to the specific charge count 19.

(b) & (g) specifically.

 

[Jayejayehilltop]

Agree. Also think the spying that LE says began in 2014 was probably Jake W hacking her computer/cell phone and social media accounts. He probably became very possessive and controlling over Hanna. If he was out on the road driving his truck, as he claims, he may have been paranoid about her activities while he was gone, thus the hacking and spying. JMO, Jake often speaks half-truths. His claims that he quit his job because HMR was upset that he was gone on the road all the time are probably the opposite. He was the one obsessing, becoming jealous.

Something happened around that time that made her end the relationship and move back home. She was maturing, craving independence and probably felt confident enough break up. Just speculation on my part, but the spying/hacking might have come to the attention of her mom Dana, who demanded she leave the Wagners and come home. There could have also been some escalating harassment and emotional or physical abuse from Jake, too. Dana probably wouldn't have tolerated that, JMO. She wanted her back home, finishing school, getting on with a more normal life.

Although I dont know any of either the accused or the victims, i do know in the spring of 2015 the company my husband worked for was hiring seasonal truck drivers to haul fertilizer, the two boys GW4 AND JW, applied, my husband gave them driving test, they said they had owned their own semi and were diesel mechanics. Nothing was ever said about why they werent driving there own truck anymore. They worked there until summer when the season was over and that was it. I do not have any links for this and since my husband told me it is considered rumor.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I suppose the charges could be nothing more than the W’s monitoring SM after the murders. Idk I find the dates interesting.
Because of the inclusiveness of the OH code, it may be nothing. MOO

Could it be hacking random social media accounts to spread their (the W’s) narrative under other people’s names on sm? I’ve personally seen some strange accounts and adamant defense of the W’s from random sm accounts that just didn’t make sense. That all appeared to stop with a sudden halt upon the arrests as well. JMO.

 

[pepper 34]

I think you have something here.
Why would W's continue to access any of the 8's a/c's after the murders??
I believe the W4 were getting into someone(s) else's a/c's until 5/9/2017, who's a/c's?????
Timing on 5/9/2017 is also interesting, lots was going on then, big searches (SWAT) of the Flying W and the packed trailers on 41. Lots of W4 interviews with LE. Also, within weeks of their departure for Alaska.
Completely my speculation and MOO

James M? At one time Jake had direct, legitimate contact with James M's phone and vice versa and could that be a doorway to setting up hacking capabilities? Haven't people theorized James was to take the fall for the murders?
JMO.

 

[pepper 34]

Exactly. Did they stop 5/9/17 out of necessity in preparation of their move? As in they no longer had capability? No time?
Back in ‘14 when they started their behavior, was it to monitor HR? Or a dif’ R, all of the Rs, or??? JW was with HRca lot of this time, it appears. Or she was with his family, IMO. So, who were they monitoring & for what reasons.
I wonder to, did they actually attempt to procure another person to help or is the law written to include that language. I’m going to check that law, later. If they did attempt to procure another, that person talked or thru their interceptions LE was able to ID him/her.


MOO

Jake could have monitored Hanna whether they were living together at any given time or not, imo. Also, your point is well made about procuring the assistance of another person. Along that line, imo... Jake could have enlisted someone else to also monitor Hanna's by the same methods (cell phone and / or social media) ... to gain her trust and by "being her friend and confidant" ... thereby providing Jake with a lot of information about Hanna and perhaps even other R's as well. As time went on, Wag 3 might have decided this "monitoring stuff" was a great idea and worked so well, that why not jump into the game ... there were things he also wanted to know about his R "business partner(s,) too."
ALL SPECULATION AND JMO.

 

[pepper 34]

I agree. I don’t know the level of sophistication or number of persons they were spying on. Would it be one charge for ea person, or can it be multiple devices owned by more than one person, all lumped together? If you know?

Lawriter - ORC - 2933.52 Interception of wire, oral or electronic communications.

This is pretty informative, imo.^^

If someone hacks Victim #1's Facebook account to monitor their activity and sets up a camera to record what they do inside their house, imo, that would be at least 2 separate charges against one victim. If the same someone puts a device onto Victim #2's car to see where they go and also sets up a hacking device to record their phone calls, that would be at least 2 more charges. The number of victims doesn't = one charge per person. The offenses against each person is what is counted to make the total charges. JMO.
ETA: I wrote at least 2 charges because IINAL and don't know if there are more possible charges incorporated (in addition) to those 2 listed offenses or not. And, as we've seen already on the murder indictments, offenses can have separate and different identifiers automatically added to "one" offense. And, if someone entered Victim's home (say, by B and E) to set up the equipment for spying purposes then that / those charge(s) would also be counted... for that sort of reason, at least leaves room for LE to add more charges onto what appears to be 2 charges per victim.
JMO.

 

[dizzychick]

Forgive my ignorance in this case, I'm trying to catch up but did I read the defendants owned a horse farm? What kind of horses? I thought horses were not a profitable business unless you had winning race horses? Did I read they owned 1700 acres? I could be confusing this with another case, sorry... just wondering

 

[Trudie]

Jake could have monitored Hanna whether they were living together at any given time or not, imo. Also, your point is well made about procuring the assistance of another person. Along that line, imo... Jake could have enlisted someone else to also monitor Hanna's by the same methods (cell phone and / or social media) ... to gain her trust and by "being her friend and confidant" ... thereby providing Jake with a lot of information about Hanna and perhaps even other R's as well. As time went on, Wag 3 might have decided this "monitoring stuff" was a great idea and worked so well, that why not jump into the game ... there were things he also wanted to know about his R "business partner(s,) too."
ALL SPECULATION AND JMO.

Pepper, have you read the link, parts B & G? What do you think? I finally have caffeine so I’ll read again, see if it makes sense.
I wonder if part of the charge is for stealing cable tv services?
These charges may not be at all what we think. We just don’t know.

 

[Trudie]

Forgive my ignorance in this case, I'm trying to catch up but did I read the defendants owned a horse farm? What kind of horses? I thought horses were not a profitable business unless you had winning race horses? Did I read they owned 1700 acres? I could be confusing this with another case, sorry... just wondering

Too much to explain, lol. You may want to start on the Timeline thread, idk. No way can anyone recap you, sufficiently.
Yes, a party is involved in equine biz. There’s always money in any animal. Sales, breeding, shows, etc. moo

 

[Gracie55]

Exactly. Did they stop 5/9/17 out of necessity in preparation of their move? As in they no longer had capability? No time?
Back in ‘14 when they started their behavior, was it to monitor HR? Or a dif’ R, all of the Rs, or??? JW was with HRca lot of this time, it appears. Or she was with his family, IMO. So, who were they monitoring & for what reasons.
I wonder to, did they actually attempt to procure another person to help or is the law written to include that language. I’m going to check that law, later. If they did attempt to procure another, that person talked or thru their interceptions LE was able to ID him/her.


MOO

I wouldn't put the snooping on HR beyond AW, or maybe both her and JW. .

I wish we could discuss the elephant in the room of social media, now deceased. Don't you suppose at least to some degree this platoforn was used? Maybe obsessively. Strange place, 'twas.

I don't think BW111 or GWIV were the biggest sm culprits (although I may be wrong. ). B3 didn't seem to read much at the appraisals, probably doesn't cling to the screen either. gW4 had his hands full with his own girl trouble and would've left it alone.
AW liked to sell stuff online including exotic pets. She was the online junkie IMO.
JW may have done so too.
IMO all.

 

[Gracie55]

Forgive my ignorance in this case, I'm trying to catch up but did I read the defendants owned a horse farm? What kind of horses? I thought horses were not a profitable business unless you had winning race horses? Did I read they owned 1700 acres? I could be confusing this with another case, sorry... just wondering

They had a winning miniature pony, Little Blue Boy, years ago. This story turned tragic as you'll see if you read about it, too long to go into. They raise other horses currently, maybe fresians at the farms owned by the W matriarch, a defendant in the coverup. Dogs were also bred. They developed the American Mastiff breed. AW sold fancy pigs online as well.

 

[Trudie]

I wouldn't put the snooping on HR beyond AW, or maybe both her and JW. .

I wish we could discuss the elephant in the room of social media, now deceased. Don't you suppose at least to some degree this platoforn was used? Maybe obsessively. Strange place, 'twas.

I don't think BW111 or GWIV were the biggest sm culprits (although I may be wrong. ). B3 didn't seem to read much at the appraisals, probably doesn't cling to the screen either. gW4 had his hands full with his own girl trouble and would've left it alone.
AW liked to sell stuff online including exotic pets. She was the online junkie IMO.
JW may have done so too.
IMO all.

The more I think about the charges, I believe part is cable theft. Moo

 

[Trudie]

Jake could have monitored Hanna whether they were living together at any given time or not, imo. Also, your point is well made about procuring the assistance of another person. Along that line, imo... Jake could have enlisted someone else to also monitor Hanna's by the same methods (cell phone and / or social media) ... to gain her trust and by "being her friend and confidant" ... thereby providing Jake with a lot of information about Hanna and perhaps even other R's as well. As time went on, Wag 3 might have decided this "monitoring stuff" was a great idea and worked so well, that why not jump into the game ... there were things he also wanted to know about his R "business partner(s,) too."
ALL SPECULATION AND JMO.

I wondered if the “procuring” might be more enlisting the help of someone more sophisticated?
I’m on a lot of thoroughbred farms, in barns, offices & houses. They are “wired”, the know if a horse is peeing, if a farm hand is smoking or on his phone, etc. every move the horses make is captured. Since FW has high dollar horses & many barns, I’m thinking she has a state of art security system. Some knowledge might be from persons being familiar with such stuff. It may sound more sophisticated to me.....it’s a good day for me if I can log on.

Moo

 

[pepper 34]

Pepper, have you read the link, parts B & G? What do you think? I finally have caffeine so I’ll read again, see if it makes sense.
I wonder if part of the charge is for stealing cable tv services?
These charges may not be at all what we think. We just don’t know.

From Section B, I like this part: ".... without the consent of, or beyond the scope of the express or implied consent of, the owner of the computer, computer system, computer network, cable service, cable system, telecommunications device, telecommunications service, or information service or other person authorized to give consent.

(B)
Bolded above, because this is how I think, when in a relationship, the hacking partner seems to almost feel it is their "right" to hack. Many people respect other's privacy (no matter how close the relationship is or was) and it's understood or implied it's wrong to hack and spy through technical devices on an (ex) or current lover or friend, roommate, etc, and that it won't be done... because, all feelings or personal history set aside, it's against the law. No matter a person might have "lived with me"... "loved me and I loved them"... "we were engaged"... "but, we have a child together"... "I think I own them." If the spied upon person didn't give express permission to enter their computer or other, listed above, technical devices... Sorry, no; it's against the law. Period!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(G)
I think this refers to someone hacking someone else's computer in order to fraudulently obtain money (out of their bank account, for example.)
It's the part about obtaining property or services that stumps me. I don't understand what type of property or services they are referring to unless it's ordering items such as clothing, jewelry, etc. and ordering by way of hacking into someone else's computer. But... services? What kind of services?
And, since IANAL... I could be wrong on all of the above. Sometimes I think it takes a lawyer or a criminal to understand some things.
From G)
"... if unauthorized use of computer, cable, or telecommunication property is committed for the purpose of devising or executing a scheme to defraud or to obtain property or services, for obtaining money, property, or services by false or fraudulent pretenses..."