OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#40

[RAISINISBACK]

If they did a plea, for 25 years, with 80% served, that's 20 years. JW is 27. It appears that in the indictments, that they do not know who did what, where, and when. The only thing that I see with certainty is that they have the silencer, and they know that JW had sex with HMR six weeks before she turned 16 (b/c S exists). With a plea, he could give them everything, and potentially be out by around age 50 give or take a couple. He could live in a penitentiary (those conditions are probably looking better all the time). He could obtain an education, work, have privileges in his cell, go outdoors, eat gourmet dog food, etc... Twenty years is a very long time but it's better than LWOP or Death.

I think it will be George that takes a plea deal. The reasons are:

1. It wasn't his child. Does anyone really think that George was the instigator in all this? If so, why would he be the first to come up with the idea to kill 8 people to get his brother custody of his brother's child?
2. Working off the first assumption, George is a follower. His attorneys are now the most important people in his life, so I think he will follow whatever plan they have for him.
3. He has his own son that he cannot see right now.
4. By filing that motion to have his ex wife take a mental exam tells me George is worried about his ex wife getting custody and caring for his son. There is a reason that George had full custody of his son in the first place.

JMO

 

[Myland]

KR lived in Scioto, I believe.

You could be right the road starts in pike co and ends in scioto co. Coming from camp creek

 

[Myland]

Kr and Cr address on Pike County auditor records.

 

[davmicmin]

I have a question. Back 40 years ago a landowner could get a total property history. Back to the first survey by feds. I can’t recall the name of the document. Help. It’s an old process and an old word. I’ve been searching for weeks.

county recorders have abstracts and general index too

 

[Dudly]

You are factually correct.

I revert back to elected official of the past. A majority voted for the death penalty.

A majority thought it proper and the will of the People of the State of Ohio to impose death upon those found guilty of the most heinous crime of aggravated murder.

Tell me Dudly, I’m trying to understand your position regarding these 8 murders.

How could have it been more heinous?

Exactly why do you believe the death penalty should not be imposed in this case?

Where’s the line that must be crossed to make it ok?

I’m writing this with respect and because it’s honestly how I learn. And considering other views is my first step in transition of altering my own opinion. Thank you for the time it takes you to respond.

I have NEVER once said I do not think the death penalty should be invoked. I have given reasons why it is very possible that it will not be invoked. The main reason is the cost to the state of Ohio. You do not live here so it doesn't matter to you what it costs. I have only said the a plea deal for LWOP is VERY likely. IF the evidence is such that conviction is inevitable, the defense attorneys will request a plea for LWOP. The state will likely accept it due to the trial costs for a DP case. There is an automatic appeal on a death sentence so there is even more cost involved. Then appeals could go on for years and usually do. Then there is the possibility that one juror does not agree with the death penalty. If they get a hung jury what did all the money spent do? Nothing...
How much money do you think Ohio should spend to give them a death sentence and carry it out?
You can look through my posts all you want and will not see anything where I have said that the DP should not be invoked.

 

[Trudie]

No live TV in any jail that I know of. Maybe a 20 yr old movie, well supervised with guards and not allowed to get up for any reason.

What do you mean not allowed to get up?

I don't recall but aren't they the only two of the four that gave interviews, to the media? jmo

Yes, iirc. They are the spokespersons, evidently. Moo

 

[Dudly]

I think it will be George that takes a plea deal. The reasons are:

1. It wasn't his child. Does anyone really think that George was the instigator in all this? If so, why would he be the first to come up with the idea to kill 8 people to get his brother custody of his brother's child?
2. Working off the first assumption, George is a follower. His attorneys are now the most important people in his life, so I think he will follow whatever plan they have for him.
3. He has his own son that he cannot see right now.
4. By filing that motion to have his ex wife take a mental exam tells me George is worried about his ex wife getting custody and caring for his son. There is a reason that George had full custody of his son in the first place.

JMO

I agree. GWIV had nothing to gain with the murders and has a son to lose. I would imagine he is looking for a way to get the least possible jail time let alone get out of the DP part of it. If I were in his situation, I'd say give me a pen and paper and a couple hours if you take the DP off the table...

 

[rsd1200]

I think it will be George that takes a plea deal. The reasons are:

1. It wasn't his child. Does anyone really think that George was the instigator in all this? If so, why would he be the first to come up with the idea to kill 8 people to get his brother custody of his brother's child?
2. Working off the first assumption, George is a follower. His attorneys are now the most important people in his life, so I think he will follow whatever plan they have for him.
3. He has his own son that he cannot see right now.
4. By filing that motion to have his ex wife take a mental exam tells me George is worried about his ex wife getting custody and caring for his son. There is a reason that George had full custody of his son in the first place.

JMO

You could be right, then again, I look at him through a different lens,

1. He and JW were probably each other's besties until HMR came along. Then she dumped baby brother, broke his heart, and a new fella was going to be in S's life. How dare she?! Let's get your kid back, and while we're at it, just wipe the whole lot of them out!

2. In my view, he's the most violent, from what's been said at court. He was most vocal about revenge.

3. Very true. He mentioned in a FB post, not long before arrested, that his son was his whole world. (loosely quoted)

4. Look at who we are talking about here. GW4. Are we sure that he hasn't played some dirty pool to get custody of that child after they split? I don't know TB, and her mental fitness, but I do know that G4 is accused of executing eight people, at least in part, to assist his bro in obtaining custody of his child, forge custody papers to get said child, and move both children far away from their maternal families. He's not exactly the picture of mental fitness himself. I've often wondered just how he was awarded custody, and what went on surrounding that.

However, that lens may change as the trials go on. He may be a big wimp when it all shakes out. It's pretty wimpy not to face your enemies, and to shoot mothers as they slept beside their babies.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

most counties have what's called chain of title cards. is that what u mean? in pike county we also have vms (virginia military surveys) on the west side of the scioto river.

Almost. It’s a very old name that reminds me of an old European word. I haven’t had this kind of trouble ever trying to remember something I so important. I try to recall it driving, bathing and just before I fall asleep.

Darn it anyway. My old survey friend died or I would ask him. He didn’t get past 5 th grade but knew everything or exactly how to find an answer. I’m going nuts over it and today it might be a short trip.

 

[MyBelle]

I think it will be George that takes a plea deal. The reasons are:

1. It wasn't his child. Does anyone really think that George was the instigator in all this? If so, why would he be the first to come up with the idea to kill 8 people to get his brother custody of his brother's child?
2. Working off the first assumption, George is a follower. His attorneys are now the most important people in his life, so I think he will follow whatever plan they have for him.
3. He has his own son that he cannot see right now.
4. By filing that motion to have his ex wife take a mental exam tells me George is worried about his ex wife getting custody and caring for his son. There is a reason that George had full custody of his son in the first place.

JMO

BBM. What is the reason George had full custody? Isn't his grandmother charged with forging custody documents?

There is no way the State is going to offer a plea deal to any Wagner which allows them to have custody of any child. They lost that privilege when they decided to annihilate eight people over child custody. JMO

 

[Charliegizmo49]

You could be right, then again, I look at him through a different lens,

1. He and JW were probably each other's besties until HMR came along. Then she dumped baby brother, broke his heart, and a new fella was going to be in S's life. How dare she?! Let's get your kid back, and while we're at it, just wipe the whole lot of them out!

2. In my view, he's the most violent, from what's been said at court. He was most vocal about revenge.

3. Very true. He mentioned in a FB post, not long before arrested, that his son was his whole world. (loosely quoted)

4. Look at who we are talking about here. GW4. Are we sure that he hasn't played some dirty pool to get custody of that child after they split? I don't know TB, and her mental fitness, but I do know that G4 is accused of executing eight people, at least in part, to assist his bro in obtaining custody of his child, forge custody papers to get said child, and move both children far away from their maternal families. He's not exactly the picture of mental fitness himself. I've often wondered just how he was awarded custody, and what went on surrounding that.

However, that lens may change as the trials go on. He may be a big wimp when it all shakes out. It's pretty wimpy not to face your enemies, and to shoot mothers as they slept beside their babies.

There were relatives statements early in about the tactics used to get legal custody. Sadly it worked and was the precursor to the Rhoden murders.

But George 4 plotting this? There’s not enough known to agree with that right now.

I do have an opinion that Fred was much more involved in the plot. Maybe LE didn’t find the evidence to prove my opinion. I just believe it has her hand prints all over it. And I think she believed as one of the wealthiest people in Pike County, her $$$$$ would be enough to get away with it.

I don’t know. I rarely feel this strongly about anything but I can clearly see her style in all of it.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for the links, Betty. I remember it being said they came post haste. I'd forgotten how post haste. They got there just after the call for KR came into the 911 Center.





Inside the Rhoden investigation: Scientists work with cops

Yes, he was among the first responders to the crime scenes. Per his affidavits above, he was diverted by BCI on the way there. They held a meeting and told him they were in charge and gave him instructions from there. He was told to attend 2 crime scenes, his deputy a third and another county coroner (Adams County, IIRC) handled the fourth scene.

Court docs reveal initial coroner response to Pike Co. slayings

Interesting stuff to read as those affidavits and depositions more details than we had seen before.

 

[IQuestion]

I think it will be George that takes a plea deal. The reasons are:

1. It wasn't his child. Does anyone really think that George was the instigator in all this? If so, why would he be the first to come up with the idea to kill 8 people to get his brother custody of his brother's child?
2. Working off the first assumption, George is a follower. His attorneys are now the most important people in his life, so I think he will follow whatever plan they have for him.
3. He has his own son that he cannot see right now.
4. By filing that motion to have his ex wife take a mental exam tells me George is worried about his ex wife getting custody and caring for his son. There is a reason that George had full custody of his son in the first place.

JMO

RAISIN Great summary on GW the 4th. I'm just not sure on #4 as it is a private medical matter and she (ex-wife) could have been part of a set-up. After all, it was 4 adults against 1 in the Petersen Rd house. (meaning the Quad Squad teaming up against her to get the child. I sure wouldn't want her to bullied or frightened to speak up. Hey, she survived....she isn't charged with anything, and realizing her ex-in-laws are charged with murdering people she has known for years....oh geez lahweez, that has got to be causing some nightmares for her.)
Would anyone (besides me) be interested in transcribing the exact words GWIV's attorney used as to why his client should be granted bond?? I seem to recall, "because he has no criminal record and his cooperation?" But, "being the most vocal about revenge" could make him a danger to alot of people involved in the case." Will be interesting if he can make the conscious decision to break away from 2 and a half decades of brainwashing and finally be A MAN IN FULL.??
He can spend the rest of his life on his grandpa's farm working side-by-side with his aunt...he will always have a job there.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think it will be George that takes a plea deal. The reasons are:

1. It wasn't his child. Does anyone really think that George was the instigator in all this? If so, why would he be the first to come up with the idea to kill 8 people to get his brother custody of his brother's child?
2. Working off the first assumption, George is a follower. His attorneys are now the most important people in his life, so I think he will follow whatever plan they have for him.
3. He has his own son that he cannot see right now.
4. By filing that motion to have his ex wife take a mental exam tells me George is worried about his ex wife getting custody and caring for his son. There is a reason that George had full custody of his son in the first place.

JMO

Raised. This is one time I strongly disagree. With every bit of respect for you my friend and your well written opinion. ( you know if I didn’t admire your work, I just would have responded, HOGWASH!!!). It’s rather unique and perhaps fun to disagree with you.

 

[Trudie]

I have NEVER once said I do not think the death penalty should be invoked. I have given reasons why it is very possible that it will not be invoked. The main reason is the cost to the state of Ohio. You do not live here so it doesn't matter to you what it costs. I have only said the a plea deal for LWOP is VERY likely. IF the evidence is such that conviction is inevitable, the defense attorneys will request a plea for LWOP. The state will likely accept it due to the trial costs for a DP case. There is an automatic appeal on a death sentence so there is even more cost involved. Then appeals could go on for years and usually do. Then there is the possibility that one juror does not agree with the death penalty. If they get a hung jury what did all the money spent do? Nothing...
How much money do you think Ohio should spend to give them a death sentence and carry it out?
You can look through my posts all you want and will not see anything where I have said that the DP should not be invoked.

Dudley, none of us know what might happen, but I agree 100%. Often, the DP isn’t even a real possibility, it is a threat, from the DA, to avoid trials, IMO. (Because I don’t have a link handy). The statistics are readily available.
Most people do not want to die. Idk why anyone feels they have a right to life after taking a life, it seems they do, though. Moo.
Maybe all 4 will go to trial, idk.
The R & G’s are going to have input, as well. IMO
An able defense has the capability to make Mother Teresa look “bad”. The DA might advise the R family that trials will be most unkind & unflattering.
Toss in the “undercurrent of drugs”, not for one moment do I believe the R’s want their dirty family laundry exposed again.
Previously, I linked a lot of info about DP Cases.
As I read the data, IMO, the primary purpose of a DP attorney is to avoid trial & the possibility of death by dealing down. Moo. I’m guessing it’s fairly easy to “influence” certain people by only suggesting death.


JMO, IMO, MOO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have a question. Back 40 years ago a landowner could get a total property history. Back to the first survey by feds. I can’t recall the name of the document. Help. It’s an old process and an old word. I’ve been searching for weeks.

An abstract?

 

[IQuestion]

Raised. This is one time I strongly disagree. With every bit of respect for you my friend and your well written opinion. ( you know if I didn’t admire your work, I just would have responded, HOGWASH!!!). It’s rather unique and perhaps fun to disagree with you.

TOS. Oh you two! I turn my back and you kids are at it again? Charlie and Raisin...disagree politely

 

[Betty P]

BBM. What is the reason George had full custody? Isn't his grandmother charged with forging custody documents?

There is no way the State is going to offer a plea deal to any Wagner which allows them to have custody of any child. They lost that privilege when they decided to annihilate eight people over child custody. JMO

No, that wouldn't happen, but perhaps he might ask that he have some say in who raises her. JMO, if he did negotiate a plea, it most likely would to avoid the DP. Not sure how successful he would be. I've always wondered if he was one of the primary shooters, assuming he and his father were the biggest and strongest members of the family. They might have entered first as they could more easily overpower the victims. With CR1, especially, I've thought the two of them attacked and killed him. AW and JW don't look strong enough to beat up poor CR1.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I have NEVER once said I do not think the death penalty should be invoked. I have given reasons why it is very possible that it will not be invoked. The main reason is the cost to the state of Ohio. You do not live here so it doesn't matter to you what it costs. I have only said the a plea deal for LWOP is VERY likely. IF the evidence is such that conviction is inevitable, the defense attorneys will request a plea for LWOP. The state will likely accept it due to the trial costs for a DP case. There is an automatic appeal on a death sentence so there is even more cost involved. Then appeals could go on for years and usually do. Then there is the possibility that one juror does not agree with the death penalty. If they get a hung jury what did all the money spent do? Nothing...
How much money do you think Ohio should spend to give them a death sentence and carry it out?
You can look through my posts all you want and will not see anything where I have said that the DP should not be invoked.

M
Duds. I respect your opinion.

And Duds, I do co own a small piece of property not to awful far from UHR. so I do care.

Costs are certainly a fact. But under the law are NOT a consideration. I think imo if cost was challenged due simply to constitutional separation of powers some pretty ugly arguments would be made. If it wentvas far as SCOTUS I believe in that issue alone cost would not fly as an excuse to publically make a deal. Behind closed doors yes. But never publically.

It’s akin to an insurance company denying treatment for cost. If a patient fights for it they usually win.

I’m sorry if I offend. I don’t like the DP, rarely have supportedit, but this time, and for the worst crime I can imagine, it is very appropriate and should be imposed without public debate over cost. Period.

Written with the utmost respect for DUDS.

 

[Trudie]

Prosecutors will sometimes threaten to file a death penalty request if your client does not plead guilty to the murder charge and accept a LWOP or lesser sentence within a limited time-frame, and will further insist that there will be no plea negotiation after the death penalty request is filed. All too often, this threat is made shortly after the murder charge is filed, and the time-frame given is too short for you to adequately investigate the case and competently advise your client. The 2003 ABA Guidelines for the Performance of Defense Counsel in Death Penalty Cases, Guideline 10.7 - Investigation, and its commentary, and Guideline 10.9.1(B) - The Duty to Seek an Agreed-Upon Disposition, can give you ammunition for seeking adequate time to investigate and to give your client the sort of detailed advice required by the Guidelines and to build the relationship of trust necessary for your client to be able to consider your advice. These guidelines have been recognized as a guide to determining what reasonable performance for IAC purposes is,https://www.in.gov/ipdc/files/defending-a-capital-case - final 06-13.pdf

The focus of your case will be saving your client's life. "Winning" a death penalty case most often means obtaining a LWOP or lesser sentence through plea negotiations. If the case must go to trial, the crucial focus must be on the penalty phase, at which the life or death decision is made.



(This is regarding Indiana, not OH. But adds insight)