OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#42

[Dudly]

Maybe if they bolt his foot to the floor they could take off hand restraints. I do not think he should have fere movement after the threats.

Cement shoes? lol

 

[Dudly]

No I didn’t, I removed them. Sorry

Darn, I didn't get to see what it was...

 

[Betty P]

Interesting instructional video...

You know, this horrific massacre, the back story and all these kinds of weapons fetishizing, etc. have really made me fearful about spending time in rural areas in the future. I used to love to go camping, canoeing on the rivers, fishing, etc. I had really hoped to retire and spend part of my time at a little place on my ancestors old farm land, but that doesn't seem to be an option anymore. It's wrong this has to happen, kind of makes me angry. How can anyone enjoy rural life and the great outdoors if you have to be on your guard with every car that drives by and fearful sleeping in your own home at night? When every neighbor, every home your pass is stocked full of weapons, dangerous ammo, explosives, etc. It seems impossible for rural LE to keep a handle on all of it. Rant over.


<modsnip: off topic>

 

[Myland]

You know, this horrific massacre, the back story and all these kinds of weapons fetishizing, etc. have really made me fearful about spending time in rural areas in the future. I used to love to go camping, canoeing on the rivers, fishing, etc. I had really hoped to retire and spend part of my time at a little place on my ancestors old farm land, but that doesn't seem to be an option anymore. It's wrong this has to happen, kind of makes me angry. How can anyone enjoy rural life and the great outdoors if you have to be on your guard with every car that drives by and fearful sleeping in your own home at night? When every neighbor, every home your pass is stocked full of weapons, dangerous ammo, explosives, etc. It seems impossible for rural LE to keep a handle on all of it. Rant over.

<modsnip: off topic>

Jmo but it may be mentioned in the discovery and I don’t understand why? Why did you think of that? Jmo

 

[Myland]

Jmo but it may be mentioned in the discovery and I don’t understand why? Why did you think of that? Jmo

Lol I thought Dudly posted that lol sorry

 

[Cool Cats]

COOLCATS, BBM, ( "I know the answer! " said the lady,in the back row, waving her hands.) Yes, one's own words are ALMOST impossible for your defense, UNLESS your highly compensated attorney stands up in court, and in an exuberant manner states, "Yes that is my client's voice, and she was present. But, my client is hard of hearing and she didn't know what everyone else was saying!"
Oh, don't act so shocked, (it surprised me) because you know he is going to use that excuse for everything she ever said or for every meeting she was present.
***So far, a Grandma who doesn't hear and didn't understand GJ instructions or questions.
***GW3 could not have planned this because he only has a 7th grade education

Well well well. Good points. However, a Prosecution Attorney worth his/her government salary would be able to dispel these excuses with a few good cross examinations.

Prosecution Attorney: Can you hear me Mrs. Wagner from where I am standing?
Fred: Yes.
Prosecution Attorney: How big is your kitchen table?
Fred: 5' by 4' I never measured but about that.
Attorney: And would you say we are about 5 feet right now from each other?
Fred: I don't know looks like it.
Attorney: Then you would have no problems hearing your family around your table plotting murder and mayhem. No more questions your honor.

Prosecution Attorney: How many years have you known Mr Wagner?
Friend who knows Billy: About 20 years.
Prosecution Attorney: And you have said you have worked with him before, what kind of worker is he?
Friend: Oh he's really good with horses. He drives into Kentucky to take them to the Vets and he is really smart about taking care of them.
Attorney: Oh Billy is smart you think? How smart?
Friend: Oh Billy has helped me out so many times, he always knows what to do, he is the best at solving problems with my animals.
Attorney: So would you say Billy is smarter than say-- a seventh grader?
Friend: Much smarter!
Attorney: No more questions your honor.

 

[Knuckles]

It is interesting to go back and read the first threads, my theory was so off. Not proud to admit it, but I thought it was drug related. Couldn't think of anything that would be behind this vicious crime, just that it was committed by ruthless, cold, hardened criminals. Mother, father, and their two sons? I'm still in shock.

High or hi or hey! I was on the same track as you but jmo i dont think were 100% wrong it is drug related "also". when they said lazer focus i thought no way le would let that baby go with these people if they had a shread of any evidence thats why they were not on my radar but i guess le "had to" or? Jmo i think the wags might have been in "business" as investers perhaps and when the house was bought with the sell of product and they got nothing they got ticked off and felt they were wronged and that ment getting the money back and some drugs one way or another i really dont know because no amount of money loaned or otherwise could justify these acts of stupidy its on a different level. Sure seemed drugs are going to play a part i think bigger than what has been said. Jmo if your backing this sort of business and get ripped off what other course do you take wasnt there a fight a couple weeks before and bw got his butt handed to him so hillbilly revenge might be then name of the book or movie its all just over the top to comprehend all this is jmo. i cant wait for all the evidence i hope le has this 100% locked up. Tks everybody

 

[JustaboyFromMS]

VERY interesting

 

[Jonas_Klein]

Is the document listing the evidence in the "first batch" available to the public?

There is a gag order on the case. If this document is authentic and if that document is not available to the public then someone broke that gag order

 

[ColMustard]

VERY interesting

I'm surprised he can speak so well with his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek.

Who saves gun solvent? It gets soaked into a patch and you're not getting it back. Jeez I need one to save my used WD40.

 

[Dudly]

You know, this horrific massacre, the back story and all these kinds of weapons fetishizing, etc. have really made me fearful about spending time in rural areas in the future. I used to love to go camping, canoeing on the rivers, fishing, etc. I had really hoped to retire and spend part of my time at a little place on my ancestors old farm land, but that doesn't seem to be an option anymore. It's wrong this has to happen, kind of makes me angry. How can anyone enjoy rural life and the great outdoors if you have to be on your guard with every car that drives by and fearful sleeping in your own home at night? When every neighbor, every home your pass is stocked full of weapons, dangerous ammo, explosives, etc. It seems impossible for rural LE to keep a handle on all of it. Rant over.


BTW, has anyone ever seen the movie "Boondock Saints"? Wonder if it's relevant to this case?

The Boondock Saints (1999) - IMDb

Don't let it all get you down so bad. It is still safer in the boonies than the city. Most people still realize that there can be repercussions for bad behavior and have enough common sense to just think it, worse case, and not do it. You'd be surprised what goes on around me and I still feel safe.

 

[ColMustard]

Waiting to see the new discovery list. Maybe by Friday?

 

[Betty P]

Is the document listing the evidence in the "first batch" available to the public?

There is a gag order on the case. If this document is authentic and if that document is not available to the public then someone broke that gag order

Yes, it's summary pages of evidence lists w/o much detail. Information from the first one floated around was in the news media. Here's one example of it being reported

Jake Wagner appears in Pike County court for first pretrial in Rhoden family murder case

A filing with the Pike County Clerk of Courts reveals prosecutors have provided Wagner's attorneys with several pieces of the case: 911 calls; 1,475 photos of the crime scenes; diagrams of the scene showing ballistics and other evidence including biological; evidence logs; 111 aerial photos; autopsy reports for all eight victims including x-rays and a combined 761 autopsy photos; recorded interviews with the Wagner family including five with Jake, the first being from May 13, 2016, and last on May. 21, 2017; and also 23 photos of Ruger Rhoden at the hospital from April 22, 2016, the day of the Rhoden murders when the 6-month-old was found covered in his parents' blood.

I think the gag order only applies to attorneys, LE and defendants.

 

[Dudly]

I'm surprised he can speak so well with his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek.

Who saves gun solvent? It gets soaked into a patch and you're not getting it back. Jeez I need one to save my used WD40.

He can not say what it is really for because it is not legal to build or own without a permit from ATF...

 

[ColMustard]

Too early to think about goose for Easter?

Holy Moley! I think not. Time to work on a photoshop of Canepa, in heels, slam dunking on Shaquille O'Neal.

 

[ColMustard]

Drip, drip, drip, drip, drip... like Chinese water torture, one discovery batch after another, days-weeks apart. Don't think it's the suspense that's killing them.

Frogs on low boil.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Not courtly, I love It! That was a very interesting article and quite the eye opener.

Is it me, or do these "penalties" seem rather light??

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Good questions. Thinking out loud:

4 counts of aggravated burglary (against each of the Wagner 4) applies to all 4 addresses where victims were murdered. From what I understand from reading, these charges apply to the murders. You don't have to steal anything to be charged with burglary, you just have to break into their home while committing any criminal offense.

To me, this also means LE doesn't think the killers were invited into the homes of the victims.

3 counts of tampering with evidence- Counts 15, 16 and 17. Applies to each Wagner 4. They're specific to the type of evidence tampered with

Count 15 - Dated April 22, 2016 - the day of the murders - refers to altering, destroying, removing, etc. phones, cameras or other unidentified items belonging to victims
Count 16 - Dated April 3, 2016 - refers to misrepresenting, using etc. any document known to be false - custody documents
Count 17 - Dated January 1, 2016 through May 9, 2017 - refers to altering, concealing, removing, destroying, etc. silencers, shell casings, parts of home security system, and/or other unidentified items

Count 15 isn't address specific, so it doesn't tell us which crime scenes has phones, cameras, etc. removed or destroyed during the murders. They apply to tampering done the day of the murders.

Count 17 is more interesting because it applies from Jan 1, 2016 - May 9, 2017 - around the time the W's were preparing to move to AK, also around the same time the GPS devices were on James Manley and Jake Wagner's trucks. The problem is that, aside from ammo, etc. it only applies to parts of a home security system and/or other identified items. WRT the home security systems taken from crime scenes (or owned by perps), did they hang onto them after they were taken? Or does it refer to something that had monitored the R family home security systems? IDK?

Interception of Wire, Oral, or Electronic Communications

Count 20 - All 4 W's charged. Dated July 1, 2014 through May 9, 2017 - same ending date as Count 17 - refers to intercepting, attempting to intercept or procuring another person to intercept wire, oral or electronic communications

Timeline around May 9, 2017
April 28 - James Manley finds GPS tracker and removes it
May 3 - LE interviews Jake and Angela Wagner
Approx May 5 - Jake asks Mr. Brown if he can store some trailers w/ their possessions at his farm
May 8 - LE interviews GW3
May 12 - LE conducts search of Wags farm on Peterson Rd

Assume May 9 in the charges above refers to the day the W's officially moved out of their farm on Peterson Rd. So, on that day, JW stopped intercepting some kind of wire, oral or electronic communications. Since this involved moving their possessions, I'm going to guess it involved stopping something he had running on a computer or something.

Most interesting is that, whatever or however he was monitoring someone's electronic, wire, oral, etc communications, he was still doing so up until May 9, 2017. JMO, that means he was monitoring someone who was still alive. If it was a listening device in a home, car or cell phone, it was property that was still being used and had not been destroyed or taken into evidence. He wouldn't have continued to monitor HMR's phone if he had already taken and destroyed it. He wouldn't have still been monitoring any of the victims' home security systems or listening to house bugs, as the trailers had been searched and moved into storage.

I'm also guessing the charge refers to multiple acts of electronic, oral, etc interception. Or would they need separate counts for each phone, bugging device, etc.? Let's ask gitana or someone.

Whose cell phone, computer, etc. was still being monitored by the W4 on the day they moved out of their home on Peterson Rd?

Hope all this makes sense, haha. What do you all think?

Thank you, Betty P. Very informative post! Might the W4 have had a reason to want to monitor JM's communique?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Because you mention the definition of hand wringing, I thought you might enjoy reading about micro expressions.

I picked this article because it shows a lot of face photos as examples.

* WARNING*
Once you start learning to read micro expressions you can't unlearn it. You may see a micro expression on someone who your talking to and wish you hadn't.

I see micro expressions all the time on TV and I'll go back and hit pause and get a good idea how someone really feels.

Just thought you might find this interesting.
The Definitive Guide to Reading Microexpressions (With Examples)

Terrific read! Thank you for sharing!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I'm surprised he can speak so well with his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek.

Who saves gun solvent? It gets soaked into a patch and you're not getting it back. Jeez I need one to save my used WD40.

Don't have the words..

He can not say what it is really for because it is not legal to build or own without a permit from ATF...

But surely they could come up with something more believable than a "solvent trap", complete with 13 baffles, oh, I mean, ummm, adapters to accommodate varying rates of viscosity. I agree with ColMustard. "I'm surprised he could speak so well with his tongue so firmly planted in his cheek!"