OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #19

[GTAWmom]

Sorry. I now see the words "appear" and "apparently".

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[amauet1]

I agree! I think that info could be important in helping determine age range of killers. Of course, it could be killers inexperience, which wouldn't necessarily make them young. I personally have never fired anything except a cap gun, so if somebody gave me a shot gun to defend myself with, I would probably be better off turning it around and using it like a baseball bat!

Glf, have not noticed how many "gamers" there are in this age range and above? Some of the extreme "gamers" wear diapers so they don't miss any part of their game. They are that intense! And most are some type of war games, drug games, they learn all kind of stratigic moves and intell. Between that, the internet and their friends that are into them to, I can see some 16-20 kids planning a very good crime. JMO. And most of those kids have been brought up to hunt. They know how to use a gun. Rifles, hand guns, bows, some of them start as young as 8-10 years old. They shot deer, squirrels, rabbit, turkey, etc. They are taught to " field dress" them to ( gut them).

 

[rsd1200]

Why do you think they haven't had access? Because they don't want to or because they were told it should be best for them not to? Could it be that, for a specific reason in the investigation, a judge has decided not to release it?

Looks to me too, like someone in the family is in the scenario

I don't know. They may not have made the written requests. Each of the victim's next of kin, would have to do that. LM would have to do that for DR's, GR's father would have to do it for his report, HHG's parent(s) would have to file a request for a copy of hers, etc. . . Who knows if the next of kin, for each victim, has submitted a request, or not? I just think it's odd that it's Tony always saying they won't let them do this or that. He's the one that said they wouldn't let his mother see the g-grandchildren, but, from all indications, she's not filed the motion for visitation. The law is the law. There's a reason for it. I would think that one of her family members could take her to the courthouse to file the motion. So, based on that, I wonder if maybe some of the other family members have gotten the reports, and are just not sharing them with the media, or maybe they don't have them, b/c they have not submitted the written request, or maybe just Tony's mother has not sent in a request for them and he's just complaining, OR, there may be a reason that they're not releasing them even to the family members. Honestly, if I had the report for my family member, I doubt very seriously that I'd share it w/the press. That's just me though. This may explain better. It's a link to Ohio Rules and Laws

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/313

See 313.10 Records to be public ...
Section (C)
(1) The coroner shall provide a copy of the full and complete records of the coroner with respect to a decedent to a person who makes a written request as the next of kin of the decedent. The following persons may make a request pursuant to this division as the next of kin of a decedent:

 

[Traveller]

At what point does autopsy information before an arrest or conviction serve the public? Are we talking voyuerism here? Would releasing this information to the family hinder the investigation? I would think that it could. People do share information and it could be shared with the wrong people. Also, there must be a lot of DNA from the vehicles and buildings to check. So, no information being released seems prudent. Eight people with complicated entertwined lives makes for many possible suspects and motives. My compliments to the many posters that have provided documented information.

 

[glf]

I would almost be willing to bet that do to some "unfortunate reason" some of the paperwork has come up missing. No LE or state official has-been cooperative in this case from day one. For all anybody knows, the paperwork might be filed in the fish and game files!
Although I agree that this could have been geared at Frankie and Jr, I really wonder if people in that age group could keep things secret for this long? And to stay out of jail, they will have to keep their mouths shut for the rest of their lives!

 

[GTAWmom]

Glf, have not noticed how many "gamers" there are in this age range and above? Some of the extreme "gamers" wear diapers so they don't miss any part of their game. They are that intense! And most are some type of war games, drug games, they learn all kind of stratigic moves and intell. Between that, the internet and their friends that are into them to, I can see some 16-20 kids planning a very good crime. JMO. And most of those kids have been brought up to hunt. They know how to use a gun. Rifles, hand guns, bows, some of them start as young as 8-10 years old. They shot deer, squirrels, rabbit, turkey, etc. They are taught to " field dress" them to ( gut them).

I have kinda been telling my son's (17 & 20) about this case and read your post to them and immediately they chimed in with all sorts of info you can find online. Including chemicals you can use to destroy DNA. No doubt kids with hunting abilities combined with troubled home, internet, and video games a teenager/s could pull it off. But I will never go as far as to blame the internet or video games for crimes. Or hunting. It would have to be a murderous cocktail of things. Top all that off with 2 years in the military..... Sounds like MK Ultra programming. Laughing but very serious. When you consider the human brain is not fully mature until the age of 26 or so. Lots of fascinating things about the frontal lobe....

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-still-under-construction/index.shtml

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe

http://www.brainwaves.com/brain_basics.html

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[CARIIS]

I would almost be willing to bet that do to some "unfortunate reason" some of the paperwork has come up missing. No LE or state official has-been cooperative in this case from day one. For all anybody knows, the paperwork might be filed in the fish and game files!
Although I agree that this could have been geared at Frankie and Jr, I really wonder if people in that age group could keep things secret for this long? And to stay out of jail, they will have to keep their mouths shut for the rest of their lives!

And in all liklihood - high - on whatever - breaking bad -- cant keep their mouths shut until what happened

kinda of a message to shut up!!

 

[Traveller]

Just asking....If LE had someone's truck in their possession for a few days, could they equip it with gps, hidden cameras, and listening devices?

 

[amauet1]

I have kinda been telling my son's (17 & 20) about this case and read your post to them and immediately they chimed in with all sorts of info you can find online. Including chemicals you can use to destroy DNA. No doubt kids with hunting abilities combined with troubled home, internet, and video games a teenager/s could pull it off. But I will never go as far as to blame the internet or video games for crimes. Or hunting. It would have to be a murderous cocktail of things. Top all that off with 2 years in the military..... Sounds like MK Ultra programming. Laughing but very serious. When you consider the human brain is not fully mature until the age of 26 or so. Lots of fascinating things about the frontal lobe....

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-still-under-construction/index.shtml

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe

http://www.brainwaves.com/brain_basics.html

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk

Look at the " kids" from Columbine. I just finished a book wrote by his mother " A Mother's Reckoning" by Sue Klebold. She thought her child was "normal" (whatever that is) and with the right kind of friend and his depression (which didn't show), none of the usual signs, bamm school shooting! like you said their brains aren't fully developed, puberty, full of passions , and energy. They can led each other to believe they can do anything. They see it like a covert mission of some sort. They never think about the consequences of their actions, it's a game to them.

 

[glf]

Look at the " kids" from Columbine. I just finished a book wrote by his mother " A Mother's Reckoning" by Sue Klebold. She thought her child was "normal" (whatever that is) and with the right kind of friend and his depression (which didn't show), none of the usual signs, bamm school shooting! like you said their brains aren't fully developed, puberty, full of passions , and energy. They can led each other to believe they can do anything. They see it like a covert mission of some sort. They never think about the consequences of their actions, it's a game to them.

I watched a news show, could have been 20/20, not sure, but something along those lines, a couple of years after that horrible nightmare happened. One of the boys was getting psychiatric help, and told his doc he didn't like the medication he was taking, it made him have bad dreams and he felt jumpy and nervous all the time. So, the doc gave him a script. It was the exact same med that he complained about, just a different brand sold under a different name! That jerk should have that on his conscious from now on!

 

[glf]

Just asking....If LE had someone's truck in their possession for a few days, could they equip it with gps, hidden cameras, and listening devices?

It's possible. I never remember hearing how long it was impounded before he got it back. Since it belonged to a guy, BJ's brother, maybe he checked for things like that when he got it back. I don't know how much good it would do LE to keep tabs on him, but there's no telling what they are thinking.

 

[CARIIS]

I don't know. They may not have made the written requests. Each of the victim's next of kin, would have to do that. LM would have to do that for DR's, GR's father would have to do it for his report, HHG's parent(s) would have to file a request for a copy of hers, etc. . . Who knows if the next of kin, for each victim, has submitted a request, or not? I just think it's odd that it's Tony always saying they won't let them do this or that. He's the one that said they wouldn't let his mother see the g-grandchildren, but, from all indications, she's not filed the motion for visitation. The law is the law. There's a reason for it. I would think that one of her family members could take her to the courthouse to file the motion. So, based on that, I wonder if maybe some of the other family members have gotten the reports, and are just not sharing them with the media, or maybe they don't have them, b/c they have not submitted the written request, or maybe just Tony's mother has not sent in a request for them and he's just complaining, OR, there may be a reason that they're not releasing them even to the family members. Honestly, if I had the report for my family member, I doubt very seriously that I'd share it w/the press. That's just me though. This may explain better. It's a link to Ohio Rules and Laws

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/313

See 313.10 Records to be public ...
Section (C)
(1) The coroner shall provide a copy of the full and complete records of the coroner with respect to a decedent to a person who makes a written request as the next of kin of the decedent. The following persons may make a request pursuant to this division as the next of kin of a decedent:

This was helpful TY! i do not know if it like the autopsy reports in and of itslef for me. Its just this amazing complete shutdown (sorry its like N Korea- think about it!) from day 8.

Where is the media?? Does anyone beleive if after Nice, nothing was said after 8 days that would fly? The AG hit me a nothing other than a dumb policiticain from the beginning. But look at his power.

You just tought me they are allowed to do this with autopsy. Everything else , way before this made no sense. I am serious, you guys are pros at this - have any of you ever heard of a crime scene being uprooted and stored at tax payers expense?

That day was a stunner. How long do we pay for three mobile homes ?

Sounds crass I know, yeh we saved some parts of the WTC.

But , enough already with the secrecy. And with the passage of time, I thought LE pretty early on, but the more the goes on, the more "dirty" it gets.

Every single news story on the planet has leaks , and the identy kept secret, becasue a source for a story was "unauthorized " to publically make a comment.

This case had what 482 people, and we do not even have a leak? Movie have been made, books written, about the blue code - there is noother , IMO, explaination for what has transpired here.

And it is going to stay that way IMO. They have gotten, and continue to get away with this. What reason do we expect them to change anything?

Obvviously there are great motivaters here for everyone to keep quiet and they are.

I want that head honcho AG lady to order someone around here !!! I dig her- is she this AG's big boss?

But the bigger problem here is societal - if some dude , whos claim to fame is testing tires- can silence an entire mass murder- we have far bigger problems on our hands

At the end of the day - its just - as humans - dishonest, maniluative,and protecting people who were entrusted to protect others.

Actually sad...........................

moo

Why do you think they haven't had access? Because they don't want to or because they were told it should be best for them not to? Could it be that, for a specific reason in the investigation, a judge has decided not to release it?

Looks to me too, like someone in the family is in the scenario

Respectfully, to regions of the country similiar to this,these are simple folk. That is not a judgement -that is exposure to things that are not simple.

Our "systems" are difficult to navigate for folks with an education and money.

I think , (especially if one could get killed for saying something) that this town would rather just go back to drag racing and forget it all .....................moo

 

[rsd1200]

At what point does autopsy information before an arrest or conviction serve the public? Are we talking voyuerism here? Would releasing this information to the family hinder the investigation? I would think that it could. People do share information and it could be shared with the wrong people. Also, there must be a lot of DNA from the vehicles and buildings to check. So, no information being released seems prudent. Eight people with complicated entertwined lives makes for many possible suspects and motives. My compliments to the many posters that have provided documented information.

I don't see that it serves the public in any way other than for clicks on the internet (or to sell newspapers the old fashioned way). Honestly, the only thing that the family may find out, that they don't already know, is toxicology, and if their family member(s) had any medical issues they were unaware of. That's the only thing I can think of that, if I were a family member, that I'd not know. Honestly, I feel it's none of the public's business. That is that person's last medical record. I'd not want mine publicized, nor my family member's. But, maybe I'm just odd.

 

[rsd1200]

I have kinda been telling my son's (17 & 20) about this case and read your post to them and immediately they chimed in with all sorts of info you can find online. Including chemicals you can use to destroy DNA. No doubt kids with hunting abilities combined with troubled home, internet, and video games a teenager/s could pull it off. But I will never go as far as to blame the internet or video games for crimes. Or hunting. It would have to be a murderous cocktail of things. Top all that off with 2 years in the military..... Sounds like MK Ultra programming. Laughing but very serious. When you consider the human brain is not fully mature until the age of 26 or so. Lots of fascinating things about the frontal lobe....

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-teen-brain-still-under-construction/index.shtml

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontal_lobe

http://www.brainwaves.com/brain_basics.html

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk

There is one particular family member that I think would fit that bill but b/c of TOS, I can't name names/give initials. I've looked at this person from early on. Probably wrong, but, they stuck out to me. I'd be a bit wary of them, even if all of this had never happened, I'll put it that way.

 

[rsd1200]

This was helpful TY! i do not know if it like the autopsy reports in and of itslef for me. Its just this amazing complete shutdown (sorry its like N Korea- think about it!) from day 8.

Where is the media?? Does anyone beleive if after Nice, nothing was said after 8 days that would fly? The AG hit me a nothing other than a dumb policiticain from the beginning. But look at his power.

You just tought me they are allowed to do this with autopsy. Everything else , way before this made no sense. I am serious, you guys are pros at this - have any of you ever heard of a crime scene being uprooted and stored at tax payers expense?

That day was a stunner. How long do we pay for three mobile homes ?

Sounds crass I know, yeh we saved some parts of the WTC.

But , enough already with the secrecy. And with the passage of time, I thought LE pretty early on, but the more the goes on, the more "dirty" it gets.

Every single news story on the planet has leaks , and the identy kept secret, becasue a source for a story was "unauthorized " to publically make a comment.

This case had what 482 people, and we do not even have a leak? Movie have been made, books written, about the blue code - there is noother , IMO, explaination for what has transpired here.

And it is going to stay that way IMO. They have gotten, and continue to get away with this. What reason do we expect them to change anything?

Obvviously there are great motivaters here for everyone to keep quiet and they are.

I want that head honcho AG lady to order someone around here !!! I dig her- is she this AG's big boss?

But the bigger problem here is societal - if some dude , whos claim to fame is testing tires- can silence an entire mass murder- we have far bigger problems on our hands

At the end of the day - its just - as humans - dishonest, maniluative,and protecting people who were entrusted to protect others.

Actually sad...........................

moo




Respectfully, to regions of the country similiar to this,these are simple folk. That is not a judgement -that is exposure to things that are not simple.

Our "systems" are difficult to navigate for folks with an education and money.

I think , (especially if one could get killed for saying something) that this town would rather just go back to drag racing and forget it all .....................moo

I'm glad the link was helpful. It's a lot to read.

BBM

I didn't take your post in a negative light. I live, and am from, and have worked, throughout the region my entire life. My entire family is from the region as a well. This is why this particular case has got me so wrapped. I've known people, and have friends, who remind me of some of these folks (I, remind me, of some of these folks from some of my younger years). There are people here who may have little education, but, have skills that allow them to survive. For example; KR, iirc, did not attend school past the 6th grade, yet he was a very skilled mechanic. However, if he went to a motor company, they most likely would not hire him unless he'd gotten a GED, at the very least. So, he probably did side work as, what we call, a "shade-tree" mechanic. Just guessing, as an example. However, like you say, for the average person, the "system" is difficult to navigate and if you don't ASK how to get what you need, or want, from the system, I've found that a lot of times, those in the system won't volunteer the information, nor how to get that information. You also have to be persistent, a lot of folks don't know that either. As to going back to drag racing, or normal life? They won't forget this, but, life has to go on. They have families to feed, and bills to pay, and lives to live. They most likely don't have the luxury of sitting on the doorstep of the Sheriff's office all day every day. I'd say, for them, it's up to the powers that be to solve this, and I think that if the immediate family members had any idea who did this, they have told the LE. People around here mind their own. I'd say everyone is sympathetic, but no one wants their family found dead next.

 

[Obiwankenobi]

I don't see that it serves the public in any way other than for clicks on the internet (or to sell newspapers the old fashioned way). Honestly, the only thing that the family may find out, that they don't already know, is toxicology, and if their family member(s) had any medical issues they were unaware of. That's the only thing I can think of that, if I were a family member, that I'd not know. Honestly, I feel it's none of the public's business. That is that person's last medical record. I'd not want mine publicized, nor my family member's. But, maybe I'm just odd.

I'm agreeing here. Medical records are suppose to be confidential which is why it baffled me from the beginning. As I stated, I guess once deceased, HIPAA no longer applies. As much as I'd like to know the condition each member was in when it took place, and would like to know an approximate TOD and who was shot how many times, I think I have to agree with keeping them sealed if it would hinder the investigation in any way. I think eventually we will know this information, just not until this goes to trial.

 

[tlcya]

Some posts are now missing. A reminder for those who may have forgotten this from the opening post of the thread:


MOD NOTE: Leave the politics, both national and local, at the door. There is no room for them here.

Discussing politics almost always derails threads and usually ends eventually with bickering. thanks folks

 

[Dr. Know?]

Have the medical people developed a way of telling a TOD within a 4 hour period? Last I knew, they could possibly narrow it down to a 4 hour period as the closest. Dr. G, Caylee's case.

I think it's possible if it was an 8 hour period between the deaths to some degree. Unless it has been developed more I think TOD may not be as helpful here. There won't be he died at 4 and she died at 4:15 am, from my understanding of autopsy from food digetsion, body temp etc...Correct me if I'm wrong experts, please. And it's always a plus or minus estimate.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm agreeing here. Medical records are suppose to be confidential which is why it baffled me from the beginning. As I stated, I guess once deceased, HIPAA no longer applies. As much as I'd like to know the condition each member was in when it took place, and would like to know an approximate TOD and who was shot how many times, I think I have to agree with keeping them sealed if it would hinder the investigation in any way. I think eventually we will know this information, just not until this goes to trial.

I won't say that I'm not curious, or I wouldn't be here, however, I couldn't agree more.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Have the medical people developed a way of telling a TOD within a 4 hour period? Last I knew, they could possibly narrow it down to a 4 hour period as the closest. Dr. G, Caylee's case.

I think it's possible if it was an 8 hour period between the deaths to some degree. Unless it has been developed more I think TOD may not be as helpful here. There won't be he died at 4 and she died at 4:15 am, from my understanding of autopsy from food digetsion, body temp etc...Correct me if I'm wrong experts, please. And it's always a plus or minus estimate.

I don't think lividity starts to set in until 2 hours. I'd be very surprised to hear there was no lividity. I suspect (just my own feelings) they had been dead past 2 hours when they were found. Also, rigor mortis starts at around 2 hours and advances in stages. I"ve been wondering how the blood decay would be affected on the ones shot in bed. If the bed coverings and mattress would change the way the blood "reads".