OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #19

[Betty P]

Just to be clear. Are you suggesting that DeWine, BCI, and the local sheriff would cover it up?

We don't know what they're doing. It could be they're not sure how to handle it or are in denial. Perhaps they suspect someone within LE or related areas, but are afraid to act on their suspicions out of reluctance to needlessly harm the person's reputation. Sometimes when you're close to someone, work with them, etc. its difficult to see things objectively. As for DeWine, he's more or less a spokesperson. He's in Columbus, not familiar with the area. I don't think he's close enough to the situation to know who might be a suspect.

The mixed messages are confusing, as we've said many times before. One time claiming the public is safe, now saying the children are in danger. Overall, I don't think any of them have enough experience in this kind of case and they really need outside help, again from FBI and DEA. We've not seen any indication at all that either has been involved. Everything is being handled by local LE and BCI. Neither has the experience of federal officials, especially if the deaths are related to drugs and/or organized crime of some sort.

 

[jk204]

I agree with the motive for 3 of the killings but not with that of KR. I think if he was left alive he could provide information that would lead to arrest of the killers.

I agree. KR2 said that her father was killed by someone he trusted. He probably knew too much. If that is the case this leads to his circle of trusted people.

 

[Dudly]

We don't know what they're doing. It could be they're not sure how to handle it or are in denial. Perhaps they suspect someone within LE or related areas, but are afraid to act on their suspicions out of reluctance to needlessly harm the person's reputation. Sometimes when you're close to someone, work with them, etc. its difficult to see things objectively. As for DeWine, he's more or less a spokesperson. He's in Columbus, not familiar with the area. I don't think he's close enough to the situation to know who might be a suspect.

The mixed messages are confusing, as we've said many times before. One time claiming the public is safe, now saying the children are in danger. Overall, I don't think any of them have enough experience in this kind of case and they really need outside help, again from FBI and DEA. We've not seen any indication at all that either has been involved. Everything is being handled by local LE and BCI. Neither has the experience of federal officials, especially if the deaths are related to drugs and/or organized crime of some sort.

What bothers me on the updates is they keep saying it will eventually be solved. That makes it sound like they do not know why or who as of yet.

 

[jk204]

If the killers thought the children were in any way a threat, they would have been killed. I can't imagine a scenario where the killers would risk apprehension to kill them now.


If the killers thought any other Rhoden family members were a threat, they would have killed them that night. Perhaps the sheriff's testimony is motivated more by a desire to see the surviving children grow up in homes and environments they think are better than relatives can provide. I can't imagine, after all this, any remaining family members are still involved in the same illegal activities that got the C Rhoden family killed.

If these were out of town contract killers, they wouldn't have any interest in returning for more murder and mayhem. They would have planned the operation and killed everyone they felt was a threat. If there is a threat to surviving family members, it would have to be from someone local, an informant who aided the killers who was "untouchable". I'm still leaning towards the involvement of someone in local LE.

Why LE?

Why not simply family or extended family?

 

[jk204]

When a person dies at home or in a car, or outside, med personnel rely on body temp, lividity will be taken into consideration, the approx time the person was last known to be alive, amt of rigor mortis, if any. If the person died indoors, TOD would be a range of three to four hours, and be at least 75% correct, or more. If the person was found outside, the same methods for determining TOD, and doc would also keep in mind the time he had last been seen alive, if that info was available. Also condition of the body. If, for example, a person dies during a walk, if somebody said I saw him in grocery store at between four and four thirty today, and the person was found in the park at nine that night, that would help establish TOD. If the person was not found for a day or two, the police would probably ask the news caster to have people call them if they remember seeing that person after four thirty the day before, or however long they had been unaccounted for. In cases like that, also taking consideration the day and evening or nite temps, TOD could still be arrived at between three and twelve hours. I have never worked in forensics before, and science may have advanced more over the last 10 years that I have been working as a private duty nurse in a home setting. Hope this helps.

Good discussion on TOD.

Do we need to know the temp in the home? And if the window is wide open and temperature went from 70 to 40, how is established TOD ?

 

[glf]

I said "like" terrorism, which is itself a fairly ill-defined concept. Yes, there are recent instances of terrorism linked to groups in other countries. But there are also instances of groups in our own country across time and history.

But again--the point is that terrorism operates outside any existing legal structure in order to strike fear into some opponent in order to make a point or have a chilling effect on opposition.

I have believed from the beginning that the Rhoden killing bears a direct relationship to illegal drug (or other) activity and was in all likelihood a territorial dispute of some kind--very likely an expansion or planned expansion into turf or market controlled by someone else. This kind of killing does not always have neatly connected dots--the risk of collateral damage is very high.

I agree, thinking back to the P.O. massacre in Edmond Okla, Columbine, Jonesboro, and all the many restaurant attacks. I don't think about them too often, but nevertheless, they are a part of our history. As advanced as this country is, it's hard to believe there are so many barbarians and Neanderthals running around loose.

 

[glf]

Good discussion on TOD.

Do we need to know the temp in the home? And if the window is wide open and temperature went from 70 to 40, how is established TOD ?

I have actually heard it said, actually I read it somewhere, that said opening a window on a chilly nite that it would actually keep the internal temp of the body warmer. I read that at least three times just to make sure I read it right! If the person was alive, I know that to be a fact. If we are cold and start to shiver, the action of the shivering keeps our internal temp from dropping so fast.

 

[jk204]

I have actually heard it said, actually I read it somewhere, that said opening a window on a chilly nite that it would actually keep the internal temp of the body warmer. I read that at least three times just to make sure I read it right! If the person was alive, I know that to be a fact. If we are cold and start to shiver, the action of the shivering keeps our internal temp from dropping so fast.

Thanks. That's not the answer to my question.

Is it necesary to know the temperature of the home to establish TOD?

 

[Dudly]

I have actually heard it said, actually I read it somewhere, that said opening a window on a chilly nite that it would actually keep the internal temp of the body warmer. I read that at least three times just to make sure I read it right! If the person was alive, I know that to be a fact. If we are cold and start to shiver, the action of the shivering keeps our internal temp from dropping so fast.

I don't see how that could be the case with someone deceased. No muscles or blood vessels will react to cold after death occurs. I have always heard of cooling the body to make it appear to have been deceased longer than it had...

 

[sumzero]

We don't know what they're doing. It could be they're not sure how to handle it or are in denial. Perhaps they suspect someone within LE or related areas, but are afraid to act on their suspicions out of reluctance to needlessly harm the person's reputation. Sometimes when you're close to someone, work with them, etc. its difficult to see things objectively. As for DeWine, he's more or less a spokesperson. He's in Columbus, not familiar with the area. I don't think he's close enough to the situation to know who might be a suspect.

The mixed messages are confusing, as we've said many times before. One time claiming the public is safe, now saying the children are in danger. Overall, I don't think any of them have enough experience in this kind of case and they really need outside help, again from FBI and DEA. We've not seen any indication at all that either has been involved. Everything is being handled by local LE and BCI. Neither has the experience of federal officials, especially if the deaths are related to drugs and/or organized crime of some sort.

BCI does have expertise in dealing with drug cases. Much of the assistance Pike Co is receiving is from non-local LE, making it less likely IMO that conflicts of interest would develop. I get the sense that Reader, BCI, and DeWine would love to solve these murders ASAP. I doubt they'd worry about harming someone else's reputation. Not when so much is at stake for them. While possible, it doesn't seem very likely to me. For reference: http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ide-aid-continues-in-search-for-suspects.html

 

[Traveller]

I keep reading posts that say the FBI and DEA need to get involved. How do you know they are not? Half of the hunters out there in camo and pickups could be agents. New girls in town? Agents. IMO. Also they could be doing a lot of work in their labs and data bases.

 

[rsd1200]

If the killers thought the children were in any way a threat, they would have been killed. I can't imagine a scenario where the killers would risk apprehension to kill them now.


If the killers thought any other Rhoden family members were a threat, they would have killed them that night. Perhaps the sheriff's testimony is motivated more by a desire to see the surviving children grow up in homes and environments they think are better than relatives can provide. I can't imagine, after all this, any remaining family members are still involved in the same illegal activities that got the C Rhoden family killed.

If these were out of town contract killers, they wouldn't have any interest in returning for more murder and mayhem. They would have planned the operation and killed everyone they felt was a threat. If there is a threat to surviving family members, it would have to be from someone local, an informant who aided the killers who was "untouchable". I'm still leaning towards the involvement of someone in local LE.

Killing eight people in one night is not an especially quick and easy thing to do. Especially, as they said, they'd taken care to not be found out. So they might be coming back for someone they couldn't get to that night. I lean more toward the children may be in harm's way from being w/those particular family members b/c we don't know how they were connected to the deceased, (how much they knew or didn't know) and if the assailants think the same way, or if some family members are still not ruled completely out, thereby placing the children in danger if they came for the people wanting custody. The toddler went back to his mother, no problem. But there's something they're still, truly concerned about, surrounding the Manley/Rhoden/and possibly the Gilley, connections or they'd have let them go with family, same as the other child. If they thought the toddler was in danger they'd not have let him go with his mother.

 

[glf]

Thanks. That's not the answer to my question.

Is it necesary to know the temperature of the home to establish TOD?

Probably not, although it might be taken into consideration if just because by the discoloration that it might indicate that the body could appear the person had been dead for a few days as opposed to several hours.

 

[glf]

I don't see how that could be the case with someone deceased. No muscles or blood vessels will react to cold after death occurs. I have always heard of cooling the body to make it appear to have been deceased longer than it had...

I understand where your coming from I always thought the same way. But after reading that on a website connected to forensics study, I don't think that info would be included in the article if it weren't true.

 

[glf]

Killing eight people in one night is not an especially quick and easy thing to do. Especially, as they said, they'd taken care to not be found out. So they might be coming back for someone they couldn't get to that night. I lean more toward the children may be in harm's way from being w/those particular family members b/c we don't know how they were connected to the deceased, (how much they knew or didn't know) and if the assailants think the same way, or if some family members are still not ruled completely out, thereby placing the children in danger if they came for the people wanting custody. The toddler went back to his mother, no problem. But there's something they're still, truly concerned about, surrounding the Manley/Rhoden/and possibly the Gilley, connections or they'd have let them go with family, same as the other child. If they thought the toddler was in danger they'd not have let him go with his mother.

At that point in time so early in the investigation, if I remember correctly, Chelsie arrived in about an hour and 15 mins, that the babies were alive and not injured in any way, that they were most likely out of danger. So at that time, they didn't feel like there was a problem him going home with Mom and Grandmother. Plus, they don't live in the immediate area, they live about 45 mins away

 

[Dudly]

Thanks. That's not the answer to my question.

Is it necesary to know the temperature of the home to establish TOD?

They check the ambient temperature in the room and then the body temperature to help estimate time of death. The ambient temperature affects how fast the body cools. They know from experience what to do with the two temperatures...

 

[Jax49]

Thanks. That's not the answer to my question.

Is it necesary to know the temperature of the home to establish TOD?

The more info they have the better, but it would not be absolutely necessary. IMHO

 

[glf]

Any readily available info, the better!

 

[Dr. Know?]

Video also.

Family member reacts to latest Pike County massacre information

"They put our family through hell. I don't appreciate it," said Leonard Manley, whose daughter, Dana Rhoden, was murdered execution-style in her home in April, along with her ex-husband, son, and his girlfriend.

Manley is now reacting to new information released by Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader in court Thursday, that three children under the age of three, found alive at the crime scenes could still be targeted by the killers.

"If the kids was in danger, they'd kill the kids when they were with the dead bodies. He can say whatever he wants. He is stupid," Manley said.

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/family-member-reacts-to-latest-pike-county-massacre-information

 

[glf]

His reasoning is very understandable, and if I were a family member, I might feel the same way.