OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #28

[Jleeryan99]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmo...15-list-of-richest-u-s-families/#4b268b8775e0

These are the real criminals in the opioid crisis. And the best part of it for them is that once they've made their billions from marketing their product in the USA in areas that have lots of physical laborers (like coal miners and steel workers) that will have injuries and get addicted to this crap, then they just start marketing their oxycontin in other areas of the world with intense labor like Latin America and China.

 

[Betty P]

There are not enough treatment facilities available unless you have thousands or even hundreds of thousands out of pocket, a lot of insurance doesn't cover or is not accepted. For instance, medicaid is not accepted in most facilities and the ones that accept it have long waiting lists, so poor people have no options.
When one of my family members became addicted, we paid $32,000 for rehab, upfront, cash or credit card accepted, and that was cheap.

Doctors have to take an 8 hour class and get a special number from the DEA to prescribe suboxone and then they are limited to 30 patients, I'm in the SF Bay Area where we have a lot of medical providers compared to rural areas and it is very hard to find a suboxone doctor in the area that takes new patients, when a new doctor gets approved, they fill up their 30 patient quota in a minute.
https://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm?ID=29

Another problem with suboxone, the company that created it switched to a dissolving film as soon as their patient wore off which would have opened up the market to cheaper generics as it is very expensive, about $400 a month, cash. 36 states are suing the company over the patent issue.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-suboxone-lawsuit-20160922-story.html

On top of all that, states have put additional restrictions on prescribing, causing suboxone to be one of the most "abused" drugs out there. People that have a prescription take less than prescribed and sell the rest to other needy addicts, so now a drug used to get them off opiates is considered abused if you do it without a prescription.
http://wate.com/2015/08/28/new-tennessee-law-puts-restrictions-on-suboxone-subutex-prescribing/

Suboxone is highly "abused" in jails, the few who have scripts share with those who don't.
http://fox59.com/2017/02/03/indiana...-the-center-of-states-drug-trafficking-issue/

There is another problem too, some judges and state lawmakers are against any kind of replacement drug for addiction treatment, believing "cold turkey" is the only way to go.
Addiction specialists know, taking away the craving while an addict recovers saves lives. Period.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/promising-heroin-treatment-unavailable-in-many-states/

Sounds like they need to develop professional, evidence-based medical and psych intervention strategies and put them out wherever they're needed. It's a national emergency that needs medical management, not prison sentences. If approached in an intelligent way, they could vastly reduce the number of addicts and drug deaths. It would certainly save a lot of money in LE and the criminal justice system.

Thanks for all the valuable information. It's very helpful. And JMO, it sounds like this medically assisted withdrawal needs to be done on an inpatient basis, not outpatient.

 

[everybodhi]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmo...15-list-of-richest-u-s-families/#4b268b8775e0

These are the real criminals in the opioid crisis. And the best part of it for them is that once they've made their billions from marketing their product in the USA in areas that have lots of physical laborers (like coal miners and steel workers) that will have injuries and get addicted to this crap, then they just start marketing their oxycontin in other areas of the world with intense labor like Latin America and China.

I was prescribed OxyContin after surgery in the 90's before it hit the news, I had never heard of it.
I didn't think it worked and they replaced it with morphine.
I feel like I dodged a bullet.

 

[everybodhi]

Sounds like they need to develop professional, evidence-based medical and psych intervention strategies and put them out wherever they're needed. It's a national emergency that needs medical management, not prison sentences. If approached in an intelligent way, they could vastly reduce the number of addicts and drug deaths. It would certainly save a lot of money in LE and the criminal justice system.

Thanks for all the valuable information. It's very helpful. And JMO, it sounds like this medically assisted withdrawal needs to be done on an inpatient basis, not outpatient.

With suboxone, there is no withdrawal.
All addicts would benefit from residential treatment, preferably 3 months.

In a nutshell, the two big problems for addicts recovery are the drug company putting money before lives and politics having more sway than medical professionals regarding treatment.

 

[Jleeryan99]

In my opinion, these murders were done by professionals. I think it would ultimately have to go back to the Mexicans or Italians. I believe it will get pinned on local meth heads and low level dealers and we will never find out the entire story.

 

[rsd1200]

How are these people getting these drugs? There are now serious regulations in place about prescribing and filling and doctors and pharmacies are very careful about the distribution of these drugs. At least where I live. Maybe I'm naive, but I really do not understand how this has gotten so out of control.

In short, you can order whatever you want from websites based in China.

 

[rsd1200]

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2925.05



Subsection C - sounds like this applies to the "aggravated" portion of charges; does it sound like they're referring to people giving money to purchase items used in the manufacture, etc. of some kind of Schedule 1 or 2 drug?



Could this be busting someone for buying the raw materials used to make meth? If they can't get someone for possession, etc, they bust them for buying stuff to make it? It could be one way to get people to come in and tell what they know about the Rhoden murders? IDK.

This is why we have to buy our cough syrup from behind the counter, and show our Ls and sign for it, or other types of allergy meds, b/c they have Sudafed in them or Pseudoephedrine, which is a key ingredient used by amateurs to make meth. So, it could be something even similar to that. This sounds like a big bust so they may be more professional and it may be some type of something much bigger.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Charges just popped up on the Pike County Jail Population page. "Funding of drug trafficking", some have "obstruction of justice" also.

I don't know much about the law, but I've never heard of funding of drug trafficking as a charge. Its listed as a Felony 1.

I believe the plot is thickening and more is about to be revealed.


http://wp2.pikecosheriff.com/?page_id=893

This is what I found on it. Apparently this charge is only in Ohio since no other states popped up on the search, but I could be wrong about that.

[h=2]2925.05 Funding, aggravated funding of drug or marihuana trafficking.[/h](A) No person shall knowingly provide money or other items of value to another person with the purpose that the recipient of the money or items of value use them to obtain any controlled substance for the purpose of violating section 2925.04 of the Revised Code or for the purpose of selling or offering to sell the controlled substance in the following amount:

 

[WVWoman]

There are not enough treatment facilities available unless you have thousands or even hundreds of thousands out of pocket, a lot of insurance doesn't cover or is not accepted. For instance, medicaid is not accepted in most facilities and the ones that accept it have long waiting lists, so poor people have no options.
When one of my family members became addicted, we paid $32,000 for rehab, upfront, cash or credit card accepted, and that was cheap.

Doctors have to take an 8 hour class and get a special number from the DEA to prescribe suboxone and then they are limited to 30 patients, I'm in the SF Bay Area where we have a lot of medical providers compared to rural areas and it is very hard to find a suboxone doctor in the area that takes new patients, when a new doctor gets approved, they fill up their 30 patient quota in a minute.
https://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm?ID=29

Another problem with suboxone, the company that created it switched from a pill (which they stopped distributing in the US) to a dissolving film as soon as their patent wore off which would have opened up the market to cheaper generics as it is very expensive, about $400 a month, cash. 36 states are suing the company over the patent issue.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-suboxone-lawsuit-20160922-story.html

On top of all that, states have put additional restrictions on prescribing, causing suboxone to be one of the most "abused" drugs out there. People that have a prescription take less than prescribed and sell the rest to other needy addicts, so now a drug used to get them off opiates is considered abused if you do it without a prescription.
http://wate.com/2015/08/28/new-tennessee-law-puts-restrictions-on-suboxone-subutex-prescribing/

Suboxone is highly "abused" in jails, the few who have scripts share with those who don't.
http://fox59.com/2017/02/03/indiana...-the-center-of-states-drug-trafficking-issue/

There is another problem too, some judges and state lawmakers are against any kind of replacement drug for addiction treatment, believing "cold turkey" is the only way to go.
Addiction specialists know, taking away the craving while an addict recovers saves lives. Period.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/promising-heroin-treatment-unavailable-in-many-states/

I'm asking because I don't know ..how long are you on replacement drugs to get you off the real drugs ? Asking because I know someone who has been on a replacement drug for 5 years goes every week and pays the state to give her drugs...now that sorta sounds like the state is in the drug dealing business don't it ?


[emoji237]Always My Own Opinion[emoji4]

 

[rsd1200]

I've been lucky I guess. I've been on about every kind of pain meds there is over the years. I've always been more likely to forget to take them than to take them too often or too much of them. The last time I had a prescription I had to take urine specimens to prove I was taking them and not selling them.

Same. My father is the same way. When he quit smoking he laid them down and never picked them up again. Genes can play a big role in propensity for addiction. I can take meds or not take them. One think I do know, from having a really bad m/c wreck, is that OP is right, they ARE the miracle drug for stopping pain. I demanded that they let me out of the hospital :facepalm: b/c I wanted to finish my vacation... The better half, and a very nice nurse, explained that once they unhooked that IV, in about two hours, I'd be clawing, and crawling, my way back through their doors. I think they shot a little more stuff in the IV b/c things are fuzzy after that. :laughing:

 

[GoofyJen]

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...ily-specific-focus-rhoden-massacre/417183001/

This article is mostly an excuse for repeating the same info we got from Monday's LE Release. However, Dewine says that the W family is a "specific focus" as opposed to naming them as suspects or POI. I don't know what the difference between "specific focus" and person "of interest" is, it seems like semantics to me.

He also agrees that posting the DL photos is unusual, but says that this is an unusual investigation.

 

[bighairdontcare]

I'm asking because I don't know ..how long are you on replacement drugs to get you off the real drugs ? Asking because I know someone who has been on a replacement drug for 5 years goes every week and pays the state to give her drugs...now that sorta sounds like the state is in the drug dealing business don't it ?


[emoji237]Always My Own Opinion[emoji4]

I'm a PO that works specifically with opiate addicts or those in recovery . Those that are on suboxone or methadone are prescribed by doctors and the dosage is monitored by the doctor. These people also are required to take regular drug screens for their doctor- to make sure they are positive for buprenorphine or methadone and negative for other substances. I would say people are AT LEAST on either of these meds for a year... it's then revisited and the discussion of weaning off the meds is discussed. I'm not sure about the state giving that person the drugs after payment ? I've never heard of that. I do know that suboxone and methadone dosing is covered under gov insurance , so it's readily available and that's partly because of the epidemic. Our county offers the vivitrol injection . I recommend this medically assisted treatment above all else. Instead of "replacing" the opioids, you receive an injection every 30 days that acts as an opioid blocker. It curbs all cravings and will not let you feel any sort of high if the person does use. People do not withdrawal after discontinued use of vivitrol as opposed to suboxone and methadone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bootsctr]

In short, you can order whatever you want from websites based in China.

This is what I understand too. I watched a news special a month or so ago and the detective interviewed said it was as simple as setting up an account with Bitcoin and ordering the drugs for mail delivery. I was shocked. It seems anyone can be a chemist now days.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm asking because I don't know ..how long are you on replacement drugs to get you off the real drugs ? Asking because I know someone who has been on a replacement drug for 5 years goes every week and pays the state to give her drugs...now that sorta sounds like the state is in the drug dealing business don't it ?


[emoji237]Always My Own Opinion[emoji4]

Same. If they are Heroin users that craving is insanely powerful. That young girl there in Piketon, who had done so well while inside, was dead within weeks of getting outside.

 

[ginestra]

Vivitrol, is a lesser known treatment for opiate addiction, that is not addictive and is having good results. The user must be clean 10-15 days(no methadone, oxy, heroin, suboxone, anything with opiates) [/SUB], and they get a shot that is good for approximately one month. It blocks the effects of any opiates. So even if they try to use, they don't get high. It's upsetting that I see our government pushing methadone, and suboxone which are very addictive. They are some downfalls with vivitrol, but if you know of someone struggling, and you have not heard of this medicine, definitely research it.

 

[rsd1200]

I'm a PO that works specifically with opiate addicts or those in recovery . Those that are on suboxone or methadone are prescribed by doctors and the dosage is monitored by the doctor. These people also are required to take regular drug screens for their doctor- to make sure they are positive for buprenorphine or methadone and negative for other substances. I would say people are AT LEAST on either of these meds for a year... it's then revisited and the discussion of weaning off the meds is discussed. I'm not sure about the state giving that person the drugs after payment ? I've never heard of that. I do know that suboxone and methadone dosing is covered under gov insurance , so it's readily available and that's partly because of the epidemic. Our county offers the vivitrol injection . I recommend this medically assisted treatment above all else. Instead of "replacing" the opioids, you receive an injection every 30 days that acts as an opioid blocker. It curbs all cravings and will not let you feel any sort of high if the person does use. People do not withdrawal after discontinued use of vivitrol as opposed to suboxone and methadone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, that's good info to have.

 

[Jleeryan99]

Doctors over prescribing and inappropriately prescribing is still a big problem in areas like Southern Ohio and other places. But, one of the biggest problems is that since all the pill mills were closed down by the DEA, heroin is cheaper and easier to get than prescribed opioids. There is not nearly enough money and resources available to adequately even begin to make a dent in the problem. Then you get the drug pipe lines bringing the heroin in from outside the area and all the crime associated with that plus all the crime associated with addicts stealing and doing whatever else they have to do to get their drug of choice. Then the doctors that had the pill mills that are not in jail go and open suboxone clinics that never try to wean the client off suboxone or provide adequate counseling.

I think LE are keeping quiet about other drugs found in the search of the Rs murder locations. I find it hard to believe that these murders happened over marijuana. Marijuana (medical) has been voted legal in Ohio and its just going thru the process of working out the rules and regulations to implement it.

 

[crystal72]

This is off topic and I apologize-does anyone know how to change your user Id? Crystal is not my name it's a relatives middle name and I'd like to change it but not sure how

 

[GoofyJen]

I'm asking because I don't know ..how long are you on replacement drugs to get you off the real drugs ? Asking because I know someone who has been on a replacement drug for 5 years goes every week and pays the state to give her drugs...now that sorta sounds like the state is in the drug dealing business don't it ?




Recovering addict here. (((Hugs to my 'family members' in recovery)))

While everyone's recovery is different, 5 years seems a little long. Replacement medications are meant to ease the physical symptoms of withdrawal. The goal being to get off drugs. There is more to recovering beyond withdrawal, the primary thing being 'a desire to stop using' and then taking pro-active steps to 'stopping the desire to use'.

My suggestion to anyone with questions about their own or a loved one's using or recovery is to check out NA.org. There is a lot of good information there. It is not the only source for info, but it IS the solution that keeps me clean. I am also willing to take Private Messages from anyone seeking help.

 

[MSCJgrad]

I'm with ya. I was given morphine after knee replacement surgery in 1999. I ended up having to stay in the hospital 3 extra days to get over the extreme nausea/vomiting/hallucinating that came along with it. I've since been flagged as 'allergic to opiates'. Dodged a huge bullet as well.

I was prescribed OxyContin after surgery in the 90's before it hit the news, I had never heard of it.
I didn't think it worked and they replaced it with morphine.
I feel like I dodged a bullet.