OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Betty P]

Here's another couple examples. Again, I'm not accusing BJM, nor anyone, at this point, but these are red flags to LEOs. Twenty minutes or so, upon arrival at the scene, is a bit different. Did she, as LM said, leave to pick him up? Were the two friends left there alone? No dogs in sight, vs. Two dogs in a recliner, on the porch, which was said, by BJM, to have struck her as odd. Those things may not seem like much to the ordinary person, but, LE usually takes them a bit more seriously.

Example 1:
According to Leonard Manley, when Bobby Jo showed up last Friday morning, the front door was locked and the dogs were nowhere to be found. (1)

She had a friend and his wife with her when she pulled into the driveway. She left her cellphone charging in the car and went up to the trailer. She turned the handle of the door and thought it was odd it was locked, she said. She also thought it was odd that Rhoden's two pit bulls were outside on the front porch, one sitting in a recliner. The animals normally stayed inside the trailer, she said.[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Example 2: This is at least a :20 minute time discrepancy, and forgetting two pitbulls in a recliner, on the porch, that struck you as odd, does seem odd. Did LE think that she added that part in later? I can see why LE was so interested in them. Also, unfortunately, folks do kill their families, so LE does scrutinize them.[/FONT]

"The Pike County Sheriff's wanted to ask me the same questions the BCI did,'' she said, adding that investigators seem to be fixated on when she found the bodies. They said it was earlier, Bobby Jo says. But she said, she went there around 7 a.m. (1)

Manley got up about 6:10 a.m. to wake her 15-year-old daughter by 6:30 a.m. and get her on the bus to school by 7. Then -- as she did most every weekday morning -- she drove over to the trailer of Christopher Rhoden, Sr., 40, to feed his dogs and chickens. Rhoden was her brother-in-law. (2) (She also picked up her two friends which added on a few minutes, to her arrival time.)


(1) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...enge-our-hearts-pike-co-family-says/83517330/

(2) https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...unty-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/

JMO, some of that is reporting error. As I recall, BJM didn't speak to anyone in the news media until the May 11 interview with Chris Graves. Reports of what she saw or said in those first days are probably second-hand information. IIRC, it was widely reported in the first hours and days after the murders that the dogs were outside the home and didn't bark.

I can understand why she didn't talk to the news media for a while, that's not uncommon for people in her situation - who've discovered a horrific crime and are traumatized by it.

There's also the problem of second-hand information coming from LE in those first days. Many times what's reported in the news isn't from the LEO's who actually talked to the victims or witnessed something, it's from others involved in the investigation repeating what they've been told. We see it all the time in major crimes where lots of officers are working the case.

Is there anything else you can find that somehow ties her to these murders? I agree the killers might have set this up to have her discover the bodies, but am not convinced she knew of them in advance. LE had access to her phone/text, etc. records from that night. If she were involved, they would have been able to find some suspicious activity there. Instead, all they came up with over a year later were record of JW and his wife's internet & cell phone activity.

Do you have a revised timeline for her activities? It would be interesting to see.

 

[rsd1200]

JMO, some of that is reporting error. As I recall, BJM didn't speak to anyone in the news media until the May 11 interview with Chris Graves. Reports of what she saw or said in those first days are probably second-hand information. IIRC, it was widely reported in the first hours and days after the murders that the dogs were outside the home and didn't bark.

I can understand why she didn't talk to the news media for a while, that's not uncommon for people in her situation - who've discovered a horrific crime and are traumatized by it.

There's also the problem of second-hand information coming from LE in those first days. Many times what's reported in the news isn't from the LEO's who actually talked to the victims or witnessed something, it's from others involved in the investigation repeating what they've been told. We see it all the time in major crimes where lots of officers are working the case.

Is there anything else you can find that somehow ties her to these murders? I agree the killers might have set this up to have her discover the bodies, but am not convinced she knew of them in advance. LE had access to her phone/text, etc. records from that night. If she were involved, they would have been able to find some suspicious activity there. Instead, all they came up with over a year later were record of JW and his wife's internet & cell phone activity.

Do you have a revised timeline for her activities? It would be interesting to see.

I have repeatedly stated that I am not saying that she committed these murders. I don't think that the woman is capable of organizing something like this. However, she was there, at those homes, constantly. BJM is the number one person who would have the most info about their daily activities, by default. Could she have been pumped, by the assailants, for information (even unknowingly)? I think it's possible. Her alone? Maybe, maybe not.

I don't know why it would seem so far fetched, that BJM would be privy to things that others would not. The woman who was at those homes almost every day, took care of the animals, cleaning their trailers, helped raise her sister's children, and was now helping raise her sister's grandchildren, not to mention cared for CR1's dad? Who'd know more?

I've provided some examples of what I find odd, and that there is different reporting on things. I'm not the only one that's noticed it over the past two years. At the end of the day, it's all about which reporting one wishes to believe. One could be true & accurate, but I wasn't at the interview, so I just gotta go with gut, on which I feel that one is, same as you, however, if you read back through, I never implied that BJM killed her family. I have implied that BJM, (and not only BJM), may know something, and may fear telling, if they do know something. I truly can see the dilemma.

Edit: BJM was present in the interview link (1)and BJM is present in link (2).

 

[superbee]

I found a bag here with a small slider deadbolt bought for our front door in case one of our grandkids stays overnight. We do not want any early morning wanderings. As I looked in the bag, I remembered something about Frankie supposedly having a dead bolt high on their front door, to keep kids from wandering outside. Anybody remember reading or hearing about a dead bolt on Frankie's front door? I can't remember where I read it, or heard it, I can't quote. My thinking is...if Frankie had installed a deadbolt up high on his front door and it was across, how did the little boy open the front door for BJM when she was calling and knocking? He wouldn't be able to reach the dead bolt if it was closed. Wouldn't Frankie have closed the dead bolt before going to bed, with his little son sleeping right there on the couch? So, who undid the dead bolt and why? How did they get past the little boy sleeping on the couch? Did someone open the dead bolt to remove the children through that door and then bring them back in? Why didn't the killers close the dead bolt before they left? They didn't kill the child, did their concern not extend to he might try to open that door and go wandering for help? Just thoughts that passed through my mind as I looked at the small dead bolt here.

 

[Betty P]

I found a bag here with a small slider deadbolt bought for our front door in case one of our grandkids stays overnight. We do not want any early morning wanderings. As I looked in the bag, I remembered something about Frankie supposedly having a dead bolt high on their front door, to keep kids from wandering outside. Anybody remember reading or hearing about a dead bolt on Frankie's front door? I can't remember where I read it, or heard it, I can't quote. My thinking is...if Frankie had installed a deadbolt up high on his front door and it was across, how did the little boy open the front door for BJM when she was calling and knocking? He wouldn't be able to reach the dead bolt if it was closed. Wouldn't Frankie have closed the dead bolt before going to bed, with his little son sleeping right there on the couch? So, who undid the dead bolt and why? How did they get past the little boy sleeping on the couch? Did someone open the dead bolt to remove the children through that door and then bring them back in? Why didn't the killers close the dead bolt before they left? They didn't kill the child, did their concern not extend to he might try to open that door and go wandering for help? Just thoughts that passed through my mind as I looked at the small dead bolt here.

I checked around and didn't find any reference to a deadbolt high on the door in Frankie's trailer. Perhaps it's an internet rumor.

If one existed, the killers wouldn't have been able to lock it behind them if they left by the front door. They probably weren't thinking about the little boy opening it. Their focus likely was on getting out, finishing their murder spree and heading out of town before anyone saw them.

It has been speculated that the killers gained access to some of these homes by a back door or window.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/ass...-reader-mike-dewine-bts-00002706-full-169.jpg

The photo above isn't the best, but I don't see anything on the outside of the door to indicate a deadbolt kind of lock. If he had one on the inside, it was probably a chain lock.

https://images.homedepot-static.com...svn/prime-line-chain-locks-s-4152-64_1000.jpg

ETA: Were you thinking of this kind of bolt lock?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...o_6_inch_ss_barrel_bolt_lock.jpg?v=1461071313

What does everyone else think?

 

[rsd1200]

I found a bag here with a small slider deadbolt bought for our front door in case one of our grandkids stays overnight. We do not want any early morning wanderings. As I looked in the bag, I remembered something about Frankie supposedly having a dead bolt high on their front door, to keep kids from wandering outside. Anybody remember reading or hearing about a dead bolt on Frankie's front door? I can't remember where I read it, or heard it, I can't quote. My thinking is...if Frankie had installed a deadbolt up high on his front door and it was across, how did the little boy open the front door for BJM when she was calling and knocking? He wouldn't be able to reach the dead bolt if it was closed. Wouldn't Frankie have closed the dead bolt before going to bed, with his little son sleeping right there on the couch? So, who undid the dead bolt and why? How did they get past the little boy sleeping on the couch? Did someone open the dead bolt to remove the children through that door and then bring them back in? Why didn't the killers close the dead bolt before they left? They didn't kill the child, did their concern not extend to he might try to open that door and go wandering for help? Just thoughts that passed through my mind as I looked at the small dead bolt here.

I don't remember reading about the deadbolt. BJM could not get into FR's home, by her account, of that morning. She yelled to let Aunt BJ in, and the little one, opened the door. With a slider deadbolt, if it were put into place b/c of the child, it would be too high for him to reach. I might be misunderstanding your line of thought, though.

Edit: There was talk that KR had a padlock on the outside of his trailer that he'd lock when he left for work.

DS said: 'Kenneth would normally padlock the camper where he lived from the outside when he left. 'I was supposed to meet him the night before and go to work on some cars with him in the morning. 'When I didn't hear from him I went to the camper and it was unlocked and his truck was outside and I felt there must have been something wrong.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-feet-shot-head-reveals-man-horror-scene.html

 

[Betty P]

I checked around and didn't find any reference to a deadbolt high on the door in Frankie's trailer. Perhaps it's an internet rumor.

If one existed, the killers wouldn't have been able to lock it behind them if they left by the front door. They probably weren't thinking about the little boy opening it. Their focus likely was on getting out, finishing their murder spree and heading out of town before anyone saw them.

It has been speculated that the killers gained access to some of these homes by a back door or window.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/ass...-reader-mike-dewine-bts-00002706-full-169.jpg

The photo above isn't the best, but I don't see anything on the outside of the door to indicate a deadbolt kind of lock. If he had one on the inside, it was probably a chain lock.

https://images.homedepot-static.com...svn/prime-line-chain-locks-s-4152-64_1000.jpg

ETA: Were you thinking of this kind of bolt lock?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...o_6_inch_ss_barrel_bolt_lock.jpg?v=1461071313

What does everyone else think?

ETA: I know the killers have been thought of as somewhat compassionate or familiar with the children in the family to have spared their lives. I don't think that's necessarily true. They may have spared infants and toddlers out of some minimal level of compassion. They also could have done it because, if caught and convicted, they wouldn't face abuse in the prison system for murdering small children. If so, it may indicate people who have served time in prison. JMO, it doesn't mean they were close to the family.

 

[Betty P]

I have repeatedly stated that I am not saying that she committed these murders. I don't think that the woman is capable of organizing something like this. However, she was there, at those homes, constantly. BJM is the number one person who would have the most info about their daily activities, by default. Could she have been pumped, by the assailants, for information (even unknowingly)? I think it's possible. Her alone? Maybe, maybe not.

I don't know why it would seem so far fetched, that BJM would be privy to things that others would not. The woman who was at those homes almost every day, took care of the animals, cleaning their trailers, helped raise her sister's children, and was now helping raise her sister's grandchildren, not to mention cared for CR1's dad? Who'd know more?

I've provided some examples of what I find odd, and that there is different reporting on things. I'm not the only one that's noticed it over the past two years. At the end of the day, it's all about which reporting one wishes to believe. One could be true & accurate, but I wasn't at the interview, so I just gotta go with gut, on which I feel that one is, same as you, however, if you read back through, I never implied that BJM killed her family. I have implied that BJM, (and not only BJM), may know something, and may fear telling, if they do know something. I truly can see the dilemma.

Edit: BJM was present in the interview link (1)and BJM is present in link (2).

I understand rsd1200. I know you weren't saying she killed all the families. I also think it's possible she could have unknowingly shared information about the families daily routines, homes, etc. with the killers. She may have shared that information in a casual way to someone she knew who was collecting it to share with the actual team who did the killings. Most likely that's why LE has focused on her and JM, but hasn't arrested either. They may have shared information without knowing it would be passed along to people who killed the family.

That information could have been passed along multiple times before getting to the actual killers. JMO, it was some kind of contract hit, meaning the killers received some form of compensation in exchange for the murders. That could have been money, drugs or both.

• Family members who passed along the information most likely did so without knowing it was being gathered to set the Rhodens up for a massacre.

• CR1 & KR and close family were apparently discreet enough to keep their MJ grow op quiet enough that LE knew nothing about it. If anyone in LE did know, they were making CR1 share profits to keep it quiet

• Applying Occam's Razor, the simplest scenario is that CR1 crossed or threatened someone who felt it necessary to arrange a hit. Word got back to someone who could arrange that

• Because the investigation is into it's 2nd year, the hit team is either not known to LE or one of the killers is someone in LE or a Boss Hogg wants to protect.

Has it ever been determined why BJM picked up her friends before going to CR1s trailer? Was this part of a regular routine?

 

[rsd1200]

I understand rsd1200. I know you weren't saying she killed all the families. I also think it's possible she could have unknowingly shared information about the families daily routines, homes, etc. with the killers. She may have shared that information in a casual way to someone she knew who was collecting it to share with the actual team who did the killings. Most likely that's why LE has focused on her and JM, but hasn't arrested either. They may have shared information without knowing it would be passed along to people who killed the family.

That information could have been passed along multiple times before getting to the actual killers. JMO, it was some kind of contract hit, meaning the killers received some form of compensation in exchange for the murders. That could have been money, drugs or both.

• Family members who passed along the information most likely did so without knowing it was being gathered to set the Rhodens up for a massacre.

• CR1 & KR and close family were apparently discreet enough to keep their MJ grow op quiet enough that LE knew nothing about it. If anyone in LE did know, they were making CR1 share profits to keep it quiet

• Applying Occam's Razor, the simplest scenario is that CR1 crossed or threatened someone who felt it necessary to arrange a hit. Word got back to someone who could arrange that

• Because the investigation is into it's 2nd year, the hit team is either not known to LE or one of the killers is someone in LE or a Boss Hogg wants to protect.

Has it ever been determined why BJM picked up her friends before going to CR1s trailer? Was this part of a regular routine?

BBM
Family members: I don't think that anyone has deliberately passed info, within the immediate family, to get their kin killed. Do I think that the assailant(s) have possibly used someone to chat one, or more, of them up, to glean information? I do. KR is one, and BJM is another. I think they left BJM alive because it was either too many to handle, or, my main theory, is that she'd be in such shock, and terrified, that she'd not realize, and if she did, she'd never talk, because she has children too.


CR1 & KR discretion: They were very close to the road. Weed has a very distinct odor both during growth and curing. If they were growing, and curing, large amounts, in that big barn, folks living on that road, would likely have recognized the odor. I'd bet a dime to a donut, that they would. There are ways to diminish the odor, but, as we've hashed out before, we just don't know, for a fact, how big the grows were. That doesn't mean that the grow wasn't sophisticated though. The AG seemed to think it was very large, with Reader calling it a "couple little grows". I tend to side with Reader. Growing weed is time consuming, too. Was this one of BJM's daily chores? Feed the animals, clean, and tend to the morning's gardening chores? I'd not discount it.

Occam's Razor:
I can see all of this too. I've never discounted the possibility of a hit man, and have referred to a named hitman in the case in Brown County, Oh. I'd wondered if he'd possibly been involved. I too feel that CR1 is most likely at the root, and his brother & cousin, came on board or were just liabilities. However, I tend to agree with Reader, that the killer is among them, and I agree with what seems to be the locals line of thought, it was targeted and they have nothing to worry about. In other words, yes, it's horrific, hope they catch them, but it was between the Rs and whoever did this, thank the good Lord they spared the babies.

From link below:
Though nearly half a year has passed, very few details about the case have been released, and investigators are not commenting on specifics. That is until Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader said he believes the ones responsible are from the Pike County area, and not from out of town like previously thought. ....... “I'm not after a guy that's selling joints. I'm not after that guy,” Reader said. “I'm after individuals who in a manner of planning very well planned out. Very methodical. Entered dwellings of this family and absolutely murdered them in a fashion that regardless of what anybody ever has done, would not deserve that."

“We really don't talk about it much anymore,” said Pike County resident Victor Brushart. “There's hardly any news that comes out. Now and then there's a lot of theories.”


Despite the fact that no one has been brought to justice for the murders, neighbors like Brushart say they still feel safe, even though the thought of whoever is responsible could still be nearby. “I feel safe,” Brushart said. “I think that this was a family that was targeted, and they did what they did and they left. People around here just moved on and going back to our day-to-day lives.”
But that doesn’t mean the Rhodens have been forgotten in the rural Ohio county. Brushart says he hopes to see the case close soon. “We’d like to see this case come to a close, that's for sure. We’d like to know what happened, what was the reason for what happened, and know who was involved just so we can put this case behind us.”
http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Re...lers-of-Ohio-family-were-local-397348231.html

 

[molly1255]

I haven't posted here in a while, but I continue to read this forum and I continue to pray there will be justice for the Rhoden family.

A family member of mine was a homicide detective and I've always considered LE to be the "good guys". I still like to think most LE are, but the apparent lack of progress and total silence in this case has really shaken my confidence.

I wish I had the answer as to "what" it is, but something is very wrong, IMO.

 

[rsd1200]

I haven't posted here in a while, but I continue to read this forum and I continue to pray there will be justice for the Rhoden family.

A family member of mine was a homicide detective and I've always considered LE to be the "good guys". I still like to think most LE are, but the apparent lack of progress and total silence in this case has really shaken my confidence.

I wish I had the answer as to "what" it is, but something is very wrong, IMO.

I'd just like some sort of update. Hopefully one will happen this month. I am curious as to how much hands on that Reader's office has on this. Fielding tips? Watching the trailers? I don't mean that in a bad way, but, six months in, it seemed BCI was doing their thing, and not updating him. Could've been a one off though.

I may be wrong, but I think these murders were more about hate, than business. Something may have already been burning, for a long time, then there was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Kinda how the Hatfield and McCoy feud is said to have started over a hog. The feud probably started brewing, years before the hog incident, when one of the McCoys was murdered by a Hatfield's nephew. The hog was just the tipping point.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
Family members: I don't think that anyone has deliberately passed info, within the immediate family, to get their kin killed. Do I think that the assailant(s) have possibly used someone to chat one, or more, of them up, to glean information? I do. KR is one, and BJM is another. I think they left BJM alive because it was either too many to handle, or, my main theory, is that she'd be in such shock, and terrified, that she'd not realize, and if she did, she'd never talk, because she has children too.


CR1 & KR discretion: They were very close to the road. Weed has a very distinct odor both during growth and curing. If they were growing, and curing, large amounts, in that big barn, folks living on that road, would likely have recognized the odor. I'd bet a dime to a donut, that they would. There are ways to diminish the odor, but, as we've hashed out before, we just don't know, for a fact, how big the grows were. That doesn't mean that the grow wasn't sophisticated though. The AG seemed to think it was very large, with Reader calling it a "couple little grows". I tend to side with Reader. Growing weed is time consuming, too. Was this one of BJM's daily chores? Feed the animals, clean, and tend to the morning's gardening chores? I'd not discount it.

Occam's Razor:
I can see all of this too. I've never discounted the possibility of a hit man, and have referred to a named hitman in the case in Brown County, Oh. I'd wondered if he'd possibly been involved. I too feel that CR1 is most likely at the root, and his brother & cousin, came on board or were just liabilities. However, I tend to agree with Reader, that the killer is among them, and I agree with what seems to be the locals line of thought, it was targeted and they have nothing to worry about. In other words, yes, it's horrific, hope they catch them, but it was between the Rs and whoever did this, thank the good Lord they spared the babies.

From link below:
Though nearly half a year has passed, very few details about the case have been released, and investigators are not commenting on specifics. That is until Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader said he believes the ones responsible are from the Pike County area, and not from out of town like previously thought. ....... “I'm not after a guy that's selling joints. I'm not after that guy,” Reader said. “I'm after individuals who in a manner of planning very well planned out. Very methodical. Entered dwellings of this family and absolutely murdered them in a fashion that regardless of what anybody ever has done, would not deserve that."

“We really don't talk about it much anymore,” said Pike County resident Victor Brushart. “There's hardly any news that comes out. Now and then there's a lot of theories.”


Despite the fact that no one has been brought to justice for the murders, neighbors like Brushart say they still feel safe, even though the thought of whoever is responsible could still be nearby. “I feel safe,” Brushart said. “I think that this was a family that was targeted, and they did what they did and they left. People around here just moved on and going back to our day-to-day lives.”
But that doesn’t mean the Rhodens have been forgotten in the rural Ohio county. Brushart says he hopes to see the case close soon. “We’d like to see this case come to a close, that's for sure. We’d like to know what happened, what was the reason for what happened, and know who was involved just so we can put this case behind us.”
http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Re...lers-of-Ohio-family-were-local-397348231.html

No offense to Reader, but I don't believe much of what he says publicly. LE are allowed to lie to the public during an investigation and I think he's done that quite frequently in order to either protect the investigation or to trick people into talking or doing something to incriminate themselves.


Two examples of false info from Sheriff Reader are when Jody Barr caught them lying about protecting the trailers over at Hadsell Chemicals and when he said that, until the murders, he wasn't even aware of the Rhoden family. From the day he said the community was not in danger and that the killers were all local, I knew he was spinning stories.


Also, don't forget him (and DeWine) lying about the purpose and LE participants in the raids on the Wagner farms last summer. They've been caught many times in this investigation. I'm sure they think there's a good reason and perhaps there is.

When Reader says this:

“I'm not after a guy that's selling joints. I'm not after that guy,” Reader said. “I'm after individuals who in a manner of planning very well planned out. Very methodical.

He's being honest there. Reader is telling us he's looking for the bigger fish, the drug dealers higher up the food chain. We all know these were well planned, premeditated executions. Local junkies & crooks, jealous family members, high school kids or disaffected angry drivers aren't capable of pulling off this level of crime unless they've had experience.

But to turn around and then say the killers are local, in a low population county where the murder rate has historically been pretty low doesn't make sense. No novice murders 8 people in 1 night and stumps the police for 2 yrs their first time out. Why would Reader say that? Is he hoping to lull the real killers into a false sense of security?

They're experienced, either as civilians, recent former military or LE and most of them came from out of town. There may be other rural/small town areas big in drug trafficking where some of these people exist.

But anyway, I still think the Wagners are part of this. And here's an article I came across about a contract killer in the Detroit area. Interesting information about how they go about planning, who they work with, etc.

http://apps.detroitnews.com/projects/davontae-sanford-road-to-freedom/vincent-smothers-victims.htm

Obviously this guy wasn't involved, but it could have been people like him. It takes someone who is really bold and cold, well armed and who knows how to shoot people. Gets in and out fast. It also shows even contract killings are messy, people are shot multiple times, victims try to escape, etc.

Michael Robinson, a marijuana dealer who grew his product in the basement, was often seen sitting on his porch, selling weed and putting the proceeds into a shoebox he kept next to him. On Sept. 17, 2007, he had friends over to watch the Washington Redskins and Philadelphia Eagles face off on Monday Night Football: Danelo McNoriell, and Brian Dixon and his girlfriend of six years, Nicole Chapman, a former Southfield High School homecoming queen who worked at the school’s book depository after graduating in 1996, and Valerie Glover.

At about 11:30 p.m., four of them were gunned down in the living room of Robinson’s home on Runyon. Glover was shot five times, but survived by crawling into a back bedroom and hiding under a bed.

Smothers said he and Ernest “Nemo” Davis were responsible for the killings, but Davontae Sanford, 14 years old at the time of the homicide, was convicted after giving a confession to police that was rife with inaccuracies, in contrast to Smothers’ accurate account.

Smothers was a contract killer who was hired by drug dealers.

ETA: Here's another article about Vincent Smothers

The Hit Man’s Tale
How an honors student became a hired killer.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/15/the-hit-mans-tale

 

[Betty P]

From the New Yorker article above about Vincent Smothers, he tells another interesting story. When things got too hot for him in Detroit, he moved to Frankfort, KY to hide out and try to make a large amount of money before retiring.

While cooling his heels there, he came up with another plan to make money by robbing a dealer who was rumored to have a large amount of money buried in his yard.

Smothers said that he “became unavailable” to the people who wanted to hire him. But if he was going to retire he’d need money to support his family, and former hit men have thin résumés. Smothers went to lie low in Frankfort, Kentucky. He and Davis had got an enticing tip: a local dealer had buried five hundred thousand dollars in his yard. “This is the out,” Smothers said. “This is half a million dollars.” They devised a plan to kidnap the dealer and take the money. Wearing a suit, Smothers approached the dealer in his driveway, saying, “Excuse me, I’m with the homicide division, and I’d like to talk to you.” Sensing danger, the dealer backed away and got a neighbor’s attention. Smothers retreated, saying he’d return with another officer; he never went back.

In this attempted hit, he disguised himself as a police detective. In the article he talks about how he enjoyed the challenge of plotting and planning hits. He also mentioned one hit when he shot the victim several times, but he still survived. After that, he learned to do a lot of shooting and leave a gruesome crime scene to make sure everyone was dead. JMO, that's why many of the Rhodens and HG were shot so many times.

He also didn't like killing innocent people and never killed kids, even though some were in homes where he murdered drug dealers.

 

[molly1255]

I'd just like some sort of update. Hopefully one will happen this month. I am curious as to how much hands on that Reader's office has on this. Fielding tips? Watching the trailers? I don't mean that in a bad way, but, six months in, it seemed BCI was doing their thing, and not updating him. Could've been a one off though.

I may be wrong, but I think these murders were more about hate, than business. Something may have already been burning, for a long time, then there was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Kinda how the Hatfield and McCoy feud is said to have started over a hog. The feud probably started brewing, years before the hog incident, when one of the McCoys was murdered by a Hatfield's nephew. The hog was just the tipping point.

I would also like to see some kind of an update!

I agree with your thoughts that the murders were about hatred.

 

[rsd1200]

No offense to Reader, but I don't believe much of what he says publicly. LE are allowed to lie to the public during an investigation and I think he's done that quite frequently in order to either protect the investigation or to trick people into talking or doing something to incriminate themselves.


Two examples of false info from Sheriff Reader are when Jody Barr caught them lying about protecting the trailers over at Hadsell Chemicals and when he said that, until the murders, he wasn't even aware of the Rhoden family. From the day he said the community was not in danger and that the killers were all local, I knew he was spinning stories.


Also, don't forget him (and DeWine) lying about the purpose and LE participants in the raids on the Wagner farms last summer. They've been caught many times in this investigation. I'm sure they think there's a good reason and perhaps there is.

When Reader says this:



He's being honest there. Reader is telling us he's looking for the bigger fish, the drug dealers higher up the food chain. We all know these were well planned, premeditated executions. Local junkies & crooks, jealous family members, high school kids or disaffected angry drivers aren't capable of pulling off this level of crime unless they've had experience.

But to turn around and then say the killers are local, in a low population county where the murder rate has historically been pretty low doesn't make sense. No novice murders 8 people in 1 night and stumps the police for 2 yrs their first time out. Why would Reader say that? Is he hoping to lull the real killers into a false sense of security?

They're experienced, either as civilians, recent former military or LE and most of them came from out of town. There may be other rural/small town areas big in drug trafficking where some of these people exist.

But anyway, I still think the Wagners are part of this. And here's an article I came across about a contract killer in the Detroit area. Interesting information about how they go about planning, who they work with, etc.

http://apps.detroitnews.com/projects/davontae-sanford-road-to-freedom/vincent-smothers-victims.htm

Obviously this guy wasn't involved, but it could have been people like him. It takes someone who is really bold and cold, well armed and who knows how to shoot people. Gets in and out fast. It also shows even contract killings are messy, people are shot multiple times, victims try to escape, etc.




Smothers was a contract killer who was hired by drug dealers.

ETA: Here's another article about Vincent Smothers

The Hit Man’s Tale
How an honors student became a hired killer.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/15/the-hit-mans-tale

LEOs? Lie? I'm stunned. /s :shame: I apologize in advance, if I offend anyone, but based on my own personal experiences, I don't trust the large majority of LEOs, as far as I can throw them. That doesn't mean that the individual(s) who wanted this family dead, isn't local. They may be local to the "Pike County area". Where the Rs live, that can easily mean out of county. One side of UHR was in Pike County and the other in Adams. There's Ross, just across the road When you live on the border of a county, and one side of your road is in one county, and the other in Pike. It gets overlapped. The person wanting them dead, could have hired someone, so as not to get their own hands dirty. That was my point with the Stykes case, out of Brown County, Oh. It was said, that the hit was done, b/c her "old man" owed someone, some money. Not sure as to whom they were referring to, as "old man", but, that's what was said.

The CR 1 trailer, and FR & HHG's, were in Pike, and KR lived in Scioto. I think that Adams may have assisted, and I'm almost sure that Ross did, as there's only about 15 LEOs on their crew. BCI was on site within two hours of the body's being found, and I believe that they are still active on this case. They pretty much ruled out cartel, early on, so I've taken them at their word on that.

Reader said, "Pike County area". If we take Reader to mean strictly within Pike county's borders, then I have to take two whole theories off of my Whodunnit List, and, oddly enough, both surnames begin with W. The Rs and HHG lived in a unique area that was only very short distance to cross over into several counties. In some places, on UHR, you could just step across the road and you're in another county.

I think that if this ever goes to trial, it will be highly unsettling, to be on the jury. One thing about Reader, is that I can hear empathy in his voice. There's a bit of a tremor at times. A crime like this, well more like an extermination, perpetrated against those folks, is something most small town sheriffs won't ever come close to seeing, in their careers. This is something that is out of the norm. I mean, what's the odds? Living on a dark road, in the mountains, and someone just walks right in and executes you and your family. What could someone have done to deserve that? I think it's been almost ten years since there has been a single murder, in our county. So I could just imagine our LEOs getting hit with something like this. I may be wrong, but I feel like Reader wants to solve this.

It was 1:30 p.m. -- just five hours and 41 minutes after family members began discovering bodies shot in multiple residences of the Rhoden family in Pike County.
"I walked into the room and there were five analysts sitting there with their laptops inputting data,'' said Thomas Stickrath, the superintendent of Ohio's Bureau of Criminal Investigation

The Pike County sheriff, with just 13 road deputies, invited the state's crime-fighting experts to help.
"We came in with a surge immediately,'' Stickrath said. "We are a lab on the ready."

Authorities refuse to reveal what they might know. A leading criminologist and a forensic pathologist are following the case from afar and agree on one thing: The killers had a core target, and the other seven people most likely died because of what they knew.

"Ordinarily in cases with multiple victims the first thing that is looked at is commonalities,'' said James Alan Fox, a professor of criminology at Northeastern University in Boston...

"Obviously, who had a reason to kill them?'' Fox said. Detectives will look most closely at family and business relationships, he said.

"This was planned and organized,'' he said, adding that he thinks perhaps someone close to the victims might have supplied information to the killers, either intentionally or unwittingly.


Both Fox and Wecht agreed one person was the prime target. The other victims were "secondary victims" -- either they could identify the killers or knew information that could easily lead police on their trail.


"Some were killed to cover up what they knew," Fox said. "This seems more punishing then message sending."
Wecht: "One person got involved in something way over their head and into dangerous games, with the big boys, made threats and then: 'OK, buddy that's it then. I can't run the risk of killing you and leaving your kinfolk alive.'"

He called it personal, but professional.


"It's not quite the Hatfields and McCoys,'' Wecht said, pondering why the three very young children were spared. "Why leave another generation? You would not do that?


"It is a fascinating picture, and I can’t equate it to anything at all that comes to my mind,'' he added. "It's weird as hell."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-investigation-scientists-work-cops/84433990/

 

[Betty P]

JMO, it's very likely the hired killers came from a nearby city or one of the larger towns in the area - Cincinnati, Columbus, Portsmouth, Chillicothe, Kentucky, or farther away in places like Youngstown.

We've long discussed the missing women in Chillicothe

https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/mis...looks-at-cases-of-six-dead-missing-ohio-women

Someone up there has been getting a lot of practice in making women disappear and local LE seems unhappy with anyone asking questions about the deaths.

https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...-women-ohio-but-cases-remain-limbo/686455001/

The director who filmed the last documentary about the missing women talked of how hostile police were when he asked questions. JMO, but if the director came to Pike County next week to ask questions about the Rhoden Murders, would he get a similar reception?

But if contract killers were used, and all evidence points to that, the order to kill the family came from someone higher up the chain of command in the drug/MJ trafficking network.

JMO, I don't think LE, local or state, has much sympathy for the dead Rhodens or surviving family members (other than the small children). I've never seen an expression of obvious sympathy from them.

The way they continue to hold onto the families meager possessions, delaying settling of the estates, for 2 years is also cold and heartless. It's cruel the way they make surviving family members spend scarce cash and time off work to repeatedly show up to probate court and pay filing fees, etc. to keep their probate claims active so there will be some small amount for the children & grandchildren to inherit. Surviving family members, like Tony R are being abused as he tries to manage the probate cases for CR1, DR, CR2, FR and HR. He has to show up in court for hearings for each case about every month or so to continue asking for extensions on filing reports for the inventory of their assets. He can't provide an inventory because PCSO won't give him access to their possessions so they can be inventories.

Visit the Pike County probate court web site and see for yourself

http://www.pikecountypjcourt.com/re...383901826521666188556171521206616490286821113

If Tony Rhoden knew who killed his family, he would have been killed along with the rest of the family. If the Ohio AG and PCSO can't figure out which regional drug dealer called in a hit on the family after 2 years of investigating, they need to call it quits and turn the case over to someone who can figure it out.

ETA: For those who want to argue that Tony R should be given access to the money for the surviving children and grandchildren, the probate court has the power to appoint someone to make sure the money goes to those children.

 

[rsd1200]

JMO, it's very likely the hired killers came from a nearby city or one of the larger towns in the area - Cincinnati, Columbus, Portsmouth, Chillicothe, Kentucky, or farther away in places like Youngstown.

We've long discussed the missing women in Chillicothe

https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/mis...looks-at-cases-of-six-dead-missing-ohio-women

Someone up there has been getting a lot of practice in making women disappear and local LE seems unhappy with anyone asking questions about the deaths.

https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...-women-ohio-but-cases-remain-limbo/686455001/

The director who filmed the last documentary about the missing women talked of how hostile police were when he asked questions. JMO, but if the director came to Pike County next week to ask questions about the Rhoden Murders, would he get a similar reception?

But if contract killers were used, and all evidence points to that, the order to kill the family came from someone higher up the chain of command in the drug/MJ trafficking network.

JMO, I don't think LE, local or state, has much sympathy for the dead Rhodens or surviving family members (other than the small children). I've never seen an expression of obvious sympathy from them.

The way they continue to hold onto the families meager possessions, delaying settling of the estates, for 2 years is also cold and heartless. It's cruel the way they make surviving family members spend scarce cash and time off work to repeatedly show up to probate court and pay filing fees, etc. to keep their probate claims active so there will be some small amount for the children & grandchildren to inherit. Surviving family members, like Tony R are being abused as he tries to manage the probate cases for CR1, DR, CR2, FR and HR. He has to show up in court for hearings for each case about every month or so to continue asking for extensions on filing reports for the inventory of their assets. He can't provide an inventory because PCSO won't give him access to their possessions so they can be inventories.

Visit the Pike County probate court web site and see for yourself

http://www.pikecountypjcourt.com/re...383901826521666188556171521206616490286821113

If Tony Rhoden knew who killed his family, he would have been killed along with the rest of the family. If the Ohio AG and PCSO can't figure out which regional drug dealer called in a hit on the family after 2 years of investigating, they need to call it quits and turn the case over to someone who can figure it out.

ETA: For those who want to argue that Tony R should be given access to the money for the surviving children and grandchildren, the probate court has the power to appoint someone to make sure the money goes to those children.

Fwiw, I think that the person responsible for the Chilli women who've gone missing, is sitting in prison right now. They've stopped going missing after they put him away, anyway.

The holding of properties, we know nothing about the why. I don't think that it's b/c they think that LM or TR is the murderer though.

 

[MizStery]

<skip>
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Whodunnit List, and, oddly enough, both surnames begin with W. The Rs and HHG lived in a unique area that was only very short distance to cross over into several counties. In some places, on UHR, you could just step across the road and you're in another county[/FONT][/FONT]
<skip>

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-investigation-scientists-work-cops/84433990/

The demographics of rural Piketon and its families are familiar to me and track closely with my own upbringing.

Both CRsr and Dana took care of their families. But it is Dana I feel like I truly understand. Dana worked so hard to be the one to take care of her family. She was like a magnificent tower of strength to all. Just like my mom and dad's people I understood the importance of taking care of your own. My mom and dad sent money to their families my entire life. To outsiders it might appear like Dana was burdened caring for a lot of 'lame ducks' (in her extended family). In rural areas where money is so hard to come by you do what you can for family. It's just in your DNA to help. The biggest fear I can remember mom and dad expressing was the worry of ever having to take government 'relief' money. Gosh if mom had to take in ironing for 10 cents a piece then that's what she did to help pay bills.

Dad from the time I can remember expected good grades. I could mess up keeping my room neat but my schoolwork was checked every night. My absolute biggest fear was bringing home any thing less than a stellar report card. In case your curious I didn't. I never wanted to be on his bad side.:notgood:

I have followed this tragedy from almost the beginning as have many others on this thread. Websleuther rss1200 posts pretty much mirror my own theory on this haunting tragedy involving the slaughter of 8 members of a close knit family.

The only hope I have is there is a GJ convened and that eventually they will recommend indictments of those responsible.

I continue to read. I appreciate Betty's absolute meticulously maintained Timeline. It is invaluable to me.

I continue to follow and take notes hoping something will click.

:cow:

 

[rsd1200]

The demographics of rural Piketon and its families are familiar to me and track closely with my own upbringing.

Both CRsr and Dana took care of their families. But it is Dana I feel like I truly understand. Dana worked so hard to be the one to take care of her family. She was like a magnificent tower of strength to all. Just like my mom and dad's people I understood the importance of taking care of your own. My mom and dad sent money to their families my entire life. To outsiders it might appear like Dana was burdened caring for a lot of 'lame ducks' (in her extended family). In rural areas where money is so hard to come by you do what you can for family. It's just in your DNA to help. The biggest fear I can remember mom and dad expressing was the worry of ever having to take government 'relief' money. Gosh if mom had to take in ironing for 10 cents a piece then that's what she did to help pay bills.

Dad from the time I can remember expected good grades. I could mess up keeping my room neat but my schoolwork was checked every night. My absolute biggest fear was bringing home any thing less than a stellar report card. In case your curious I didn't. I never wanted to be on his bad side.:notgood:

I have followed this tragedy from almost the beginning as have many others on this thread. Websleuther rss1200 posts pretty much mirror my own theory on this haunting tragedy involving the slaughter of 8 members of a close knit family.

The only hope I have is there is a GJ convened and that eventually they will recommend indictments of those responsible.

I continue to read. I appreciate Betty's absolute meticulously maintained Timeline. It is invaluable to me.

I continue to follow and take notes hoping something will click.

:cow:

Thank you for your insight into the region. This case brought me here because, being from the region, only across the state line, I could see the Rhodens as folks who I know, and have known, as friends and kin. Like yours, my kin worked hard, and expected us to be good folks. One side of grandparents, never had running water in their home, and raised their family, in a warm, little, four room house, heated by a coal grate, and a stoker. I can still hear the coal popping and cracking, some days, when it's very cold. My grandmother was the rock of the family. My grandfather was sick most of his life, but raised fox hounds, and gardened, til he became too sick to do those things. My grandmother drove to work, 50 miles r/t, each day, not counting driving up into hollers and back, to haul riders, who didn't have a way to work, to make a little extra money. They went through a total burn out, but built back, with no insurance. They helped family, and others, but, folks didn't like to ask for help from neighbors, unless it was just no other way, and govt. help was even harder to take, even taking that govt. cheese was something that wasn't hardly done. My grandmother was always happy and loving, and my grandfather was a good man, but always sick, and it eventually robbed him of his sight. Both of them died at 60. I've lived in, and worked in, the region, my entire life. I don't know what the impetus was, to get these folks killed, but, someone did something unforgivable, and worthy of death, in the other's eyes. I agree, with the officer, that this was a punishment for something. Did they start dabbling in more than weed, and someone's child died, as a result? Was it seen as an eye for an eye? Did one of them try to blackmail a long time business partner? Then it backfired in a bad way? Idk. I do know that I've thought of these folks, and what it could have been, every day, for nearly two years.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

The way they continue to hold onto the families meager possessions, delaying settling of the estates, for 2 years is also cold and heartless. It's cruel the way they make surviving family members spend scarce cash and time off work to repeatedly show up to probate court and pay filing fees, etc. to keep their probate claims active so there will be some small amount for the children & grandchildren to inherit. Surviving family members, like Tony R are being abused as he tries to manage the probate cases for CR1, DR, CR2, FR and HR. He has to show up in court for hearings for each case about every month or so to continue asking for extensions on filing reports for the inventory of their assets. He can't provide an inventory because PCSO won't give him access to their possessions so they can be inventories.

Visit the Pike County probate court web site and see for yourself

http://www.pikecountypjcourt.com/re...383901826521666188556171521206616490286821113

RSBM

This! It has never sat well with me that all of the deceased’s possessions have been and are still being held. I think it’s absolutely unnecessary and cruel. There’s no reason that next of kin shouldn’t be given the deceased Rhoden/Gilley possessions such as clothes, memorabilia, photos, knickknacks, sentimental items etc. IMO, this is a cruel and heartless tactic on behalf of LE.

 

[rsd1200]

From the New Yorker article above about Vincent Smothers, he tells another interesting story. When things got too hot for him in Detroit, he moved to Frankfort, KY to hide out and try to make a large amount of money before retiring.

While cooling his heels there, he came up with another plan to make money by robbing a dealer who was rumored to have a large amount of money buried in his yard.



In this attempted hit, he disguised himself as a police detective. In the article he talks about how he enjoyed the challenge of plotting and planning hits. He also mentioned one hit when he shot the victim several times, but he still survived. After that, he learned to do a lot of shooting and leave a gruesome crime scene to make sure everyone was dead. JMO, that's why many of the Rhodens and HG were shot so many times.

He also didn't like killing innocent people and never killed kids, even though some were in homes where he murdered drug dealers.

Whoever murdered the R's and HHG, killed a 16 y/o child, and two very young mothers w/infants. They wanted no one who could speak, left alive. If the toddler had been a couple years older, I think they'd have killed him. They might have killed him anyway, if he woke up and saw them. I've seen toddlers sleep through unimaginable noises and it some of the strangest positions. Some adults are deep sleepers.

This Brown County case, the fella was said to have used a detachable blue light, to get the girl to pull over, then he just busted loose, firing. I don't know if he knew, or cared, that her child was in the backseat, and that Stykes was pregnant. Her child was struck but survived. She was just a few miles from her parents home.

http://www.fox19.com/story/30119225...-in-brittany-stykes-murder?clienttype=generic

Then again, there's folks who could have hated them enough that they'd sat around, had a few beers and talked about the Rs demise, for a long while now, then, the loosely formed plan, came together, and there was a tipping point of some sort. In this case, they'd talked about murdering both of these folks, bc of custody and child support, the bf murdered only the man, though, told the little girl, who woke up, to go back to bed, (that was in documentary) he ran out and left the front door open. The only way they broke the case, almost two years later, is that the gf decided to come forward and throw the bf, under the bus. This is just a small overview, it was much more in depth than this clip. The ex hated her ex, and his new spouse, and the custody arrangement with their daughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtafn6lM-cs