OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Betty P]

Whoever murdered the R's and HHG, killed a 16 y/o child, and two very young mothers w/infants. They wanted no one who could speak, left alive. If the toddler had been a couple years older, I think they'd have killed him. They might have killed him anyway, if he woke up and saw them. I've seen toddlers sleep through unimaginable noises and it some of the strangest positions. Some adults are deep sleepers.

This Brown County case, the fella was said to have used a detachable blue light, to get the girl to pull over, then he just busted loose, firing. I don't know if he knew, or cared, that her child was in the backseat, and that Stykes was pregnant. Her child was struck but survived. She was just a few miles from her parents home.

http://www.fox19.com/story/30119225...-in-brittany-stykes-murder?clienttype=generic

Then again, there's folks who could have hated them enough that they'd sat around, had a few beers and talked about the Rs demise, for a long while now, then, the loosely formed plan, came together, and there was a tipping point of some sort. In this case, they'd talked about murdering both of these folks, bc of custody and child support, the bf murdered only the man, though, told the little girl, who woke up, to go back to bed, (that was in documentary) he ran out and left the front door open. The only way they broke the case, almost two years later, is that the gf decided to come forward and throw the bf, under the bus. This is just a small overview, it was much more in depth than this clip. The ex hated her ex, and his new spouse, and the custody arrangement with their daughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtafn6lM-cs

Yes, the Brown Co guy sounds like a psycho as much as a paid killer. He also doesn't sound very experienced (fortunately) as he was was caught by police. Odd the article doesn't mention much about the guy who paid him $20,000 to kill the woman - again over some drug/money deal gone wrong. JMO, these contract killings on drug dealers are much more common than we realize. We read in the paper and assume it's a death related to a drug deal gone bad, but don't realize many of the killings in certain cities, etc. are done by the same people - for about $25,000 or so per hit, plus all the drugs and money you can find.

The cost of killing the Rhodens would have been higher since the risk was so much greater, the work much more difficult in 4 different locations with multiple victims. As DeWine and Reader said, it would have taken quite a bit of planning to handle weapons, ammo, logistics, stealing drugs and/or money, removing security cameras, gaining access, etc. It would have been followed up by even more work to dispose of weapons, clothing, cars, etc.

But a bunch of rednecks sitting around drinking beer and deciding to do this because they were angry or jealous? Highly unlikely. JMO, that's victim blaming.

I do think W's were involved because of the custody issues and a falling out between CR1 and JW's father. But all they had to do was go to the drug boss above them, tell some lies about CR1, KR and the rest and the drug bosses higher up the food chain would have arranged it. W's are not smart or ambitious enough to pull off something like this. They didn't need to do it themselves.

 

[Betty P]

RSBM

This! It has never sat well with me that all of the deceased’s possessions have been and are still being held. I think it’s absolutely unnecessary and cruel. There’s no reason that next of kin shouldn’t be given the deceased Rhoden/Gilley possessions such as clothes, memorabilia, photos, knickknacks, sentimental items etc. IMO, this is a cruel and heartless tactic on behalf of LE.

Agree, and there's no reason they shouldn't allow the guardians of the estates to inventory items and complete the process of helping the surviving kids gain access to their parents and grandparents money. It's not a lot, but LE has no justification for tying it up, making Tony R and others jump through legal hoops for years on end.

If they think Tony or LM knows anything about who planned the murders, they're not very smart. If Tony or LM knew who the killers were, they would have been killed along with the rest of the family. None of the Manleys or other Rhodens would have been left alive if they knew anything about who killed their family members.

 

[Betty P]

Fwiw, I think that the person responsible for the Chilli women who've gone missing, is sitting in prison right now. They've stopped going missing after they put him away, anyway.

The holding of properties, we know nothing about the why. I don't think that it's b/c they think that LM or TR is the murderer though.

But the boss of the person who killed the Chilli women is probably still free. That's the person who likely ordered their dealers to start killing these women. That person they haven't caught, but need to. That person probably also knows who killed the Rhodens. Even if he didn't order their killings, he probably knows who did it.

Let's also not forget the pain clinic doctors who were murdered in their homes. Someone in that area knows how to sneak up and kill people in their own beds, in the middle of the night, without leaving enough evidence behind to track them. Those people may have had something to do with the Rhoden murders.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Agree, and there's no reason they shouldn't allow the guardians of the estates to inventory items and complete the process of helping the surviving kids gain access to their parents and grandparents money. It's not a lot, but LE has no justification for tying it up, making Tony R and others jump through legal hoops for years on end.

If they think Tony or LM knows anything about who planned the murders, they're not very smart. If Tony or LM knew who the killers were, they would have been killed along with the rest of the family. None of the Manleys or other Rhodens would have been left alive if they knew anything about who killed their family members.

That whole situation with the estates and possessions makes ZERO sense from any angle. Personally, I don’t see how it’s even legal or how it’s been allowed to go on this long. It’s only added more grief to all of those who lost 8 family members.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, the Brown Co guy sounds like a psycho as much as a paid killer. He also doesn't sound very experienced (fortunately) as he was was caught by police. Odd the article doesn't mention much about the guy who paid him $20,000 to kill the woman - again over some drug/money deal gone wrong. JMO, these contract killings on drug dealers are much more common than we realize. We read in the paper and assume it's a death related to a drug deal gone bad, but don't realize many of the killings in certain cities, etc. are done by the same people - for about $25,000 or so per hit, plus all the drugs and money you can find.

The cost of killing the Rhodens would have been higher since the risk was so much greater, the work much more difficult in 4 different locations with multiple victims. As DeWine and Reader said, it would have taken quite a bit of planning to handle weapons, ammo, logistics, stealing drugs and/or money, removing security cameras, gaining access, etc. It would have been followed up by even more work to dispose of weapons, clothing, cars, etc.

But a bunch of rednecks sitting around drinking beer and deciding to do this because they were angry or jealous? Highly unlikely. JMO, that's victim blaming.

I do think W's were involved because of the custody issues and a falling out between CR1 and JW's father. But all they had to do was go to the drug boss above them, tell some lies about CR1, KR and the rest and the drug bosses higher up the food chain would have arranged it. W's are not smart or ambitious enough to pull off something like this. They didn't need to do it themselves.

This was not the first for the Lopez guy, and no, he was not caught. His ex gf tried to roll on him, but thus far they haven't been able to make it stick. She stated, that he was paid $20k, in 2013 to do this hit. I said he just got out and started firing, but the gf, who came forward, says he just walked right up to the vehicle and shot the woman, multiple times. Lopez is from Ky. They, so far, have not been able to pin this murder on him, or the others. Anyone who is a contract killer can't have much, if any, empathy. Like the R case, it's been stated that they don't want to take him to trial unless they are sure that what they have, will stick. They only get one shot, for him, and the murderer(s) of the Rs. I don't see any folks in sharkskin suits heading into Pike County. I see it being some folks, more like a Tommy Lopez, only maybe a little younger and possibly a female in the mix.

I did not say a bunch of rednecks, you did, but, I am a redneck, hillbilly, whatever you want to call us here, but that doesn't mean that I'm uneducated, or incapable of planning, a large, detailed, project. I may not do so to kill someone, but these rednecks and hillbillies, are patient, and have the advantage of living here, and contrary to the beliefs of most of the United States, we are not stupid.

Edit: Saying locals could be to blame, is not victim blaming. The Ws are local...

Stykes Case Remains Active
https://www.newsdemocrat.com/2016/01/07/stykes-case-remains-active/

 

[rsd1200]

But the boss of the person who killed the Chilli women is probably still free. That's the person who likely ordered their dealers to start killing these women. That person they haven't caught, but need to. That person probably also knows who killed the Rhodens. Even if he didn't order their killings, he probably knows who did it.

Let's also not forget the pain clinic doctors who were murdered in their homes. Someone in that area knows how to sneak up and kill people in their own beds, in the middle of the night, without leaving enough evidence behind to track them. Those people may have had something to do with the Rhoden murders.

I'm not seeing the Chilli women, or the pain clinic doctors, tied into the Rhodens, but I could be wrong. Just like the three who were murdered a few days ago, in Martin County, Ky., and left at an old strip mine. They have done something to someone and that someone saw it as unforgivable. I think it's tied in with drugs, and possibly to OH, too, just not sure how. I also think they knew their killer, same as I think that the Rs knew theirs, but I don't think they knew the Rs or the Rs killers.

 

[amauet1]

No offense to Reader, but I don't believe much of what he says publicly. LE are allowed to lie to the public during an investigation and I think he's done that quite frequently in order to either protect the investigation or to trick people into talking or doing something to incriminate themselves.


Two examples of false info from Sheriff Reader are when Jody Barr caught them lying about protecting the trailers over at Hadsell Chemicals and when he said that, until the murders, he wasn't even aware of the Rhoden family. From the day he said the community was not in danger and that the killers were all local, I knew he was spinning stories.


Also, don't forget him (and DeWine) lying about the purpose and LE participants in the raids on the Wagner farms last summer. They've been caught many times in this investigation. I'm sure they think there's a good reason and perhaps there is.

When Reader says this:



He's being honest there. Reader is telling us he's looking for the bigger fish, the drug dealers higher up the food chain. We all know these were well planned, premeditated executions. Local junkies & crooks, jealous family members, high school kids or disaffected angry drivers aren't capable of pulling off this level of crime unless they've had experience.

But to turn around and then say the killers are local, in a low population county where the murder rate has historically been pretty low doesn't make sense. No novice murders 8 people in 1 night and stumps the police for 2 yrs their first time out. Why would Reader say that? Is he hoping to lull the real killers into a false sense of security?

They're experienced, either as civilians, recent former military or LE and most of them came from out of town. There may be other rural/small town areas big in drug trafficking where some of these people exist.

But anyway, I still think the Wagners are part of this. And here's an article I came across about a contract killer in the Detroit area. Interesting information about how they go about planning, who they work with, etc.

http://apps.detroitnews.com/projects/davontae-sanford-road-to-freedom/vincent-smothers-victims.htm

Obviously this guy wasn't involved, but it could have been people like him. It takes someone who is really bold and cold, well armed and who knows how to shoot people. Gets in and out fast. It also shows even contract killings are messy, people are shot multiple times, victims try to escape, etc.




Smothers was a contract killer who was hired by drug dealers.

ETA: Here's another article about Vincent Smothers

The Hit Man’s Tale
How an honors student became a hired killer.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/15/the-hit-mans-tale

"the murder rate has historically been pretty low" Are we talking about the same Pike Co Ohio? From all the research we all have done, that just isn't true anymore. The Burcettes, The Newsome's, Hobby Howard, just to name a very few of the cold case murder's that have happened in Pike Co Ohio in the last years.

 

[amauet1]

JMO, it's very likely the hired killers came from a nearby city or one of the larger towns in the area - Cincinnati, Columbus, Portsmouth, Chillicothe, Kentucky, or farther away in places like Youngstown.

We've long discussed the missing women in Chillicothe

https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/mis...looks-at-cases-of-six-dead-missing-ohio-women

Someone up there has been getting a lot of practice in making women disappear and local LE seems unhappy with anyone asking questions about the deaths.

https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...-women-ohio-but-cases-remain-limbo/686455001/

The director who filmed the last documentary about the missing women talked of how hostile police were when he asked questions. JMO, but if the director came to Pike County next week to ask questions about the Rhoden Murders, would he get a similar reception?

But if contract killers were used, and all evidence points to that, the order to kill the family came from someone higher up the chain of command in the drug/MJ trafficking network.

JMO, I don't think LE, local or state, has much sympathy for the dead Rhodens or surviving family members (other than the small children). I've never seen an expression of obvious sympathy from them.

The way they continue to hold onto the families meager possessions, delaying settling of the estates, for 2 years is also cold and heartless. It's cruel the way they make surviving family members spend scarce cash and time off work to repeatedly show up to probate court and pay filing fees, etc. to keep their probate claims active so there will be some small amount for the children & grandchildren to inherit. Surviving family members, like Tony R are being abused as he tries to manage the probate cases for CR1, DR, CR2, FR and HR. He has to show up in court for hearings for each case about every month or so to continue asking for extensions on filing reports for the inventory of their assets. He can't provide an inventory because PCSO won't give him access to their possessions so they can be inventories.

Visit the Pike County probate court web site and see for yourself

http://www.pikecountypjcourt.com/re...383901826521666188556171521206616490286821113

If Tony Rhoden knew who killed his family, he would have been killed along with the rest of the family. If the Ohio AG and PCSO can't figure out which regional drug dealer called in a hit on the family after 2 years of investigating, they need to call it quits and turn the case over to someone who can figure it out.

ETA: For those who want to argue that Tony R should be given access to the money for the surviving children and grandchildren, the probate court has the power to appoint someone to make sure the money goes to those children.

So the reason BCI/LE/AG are holding on to all possessions is to be mean to these families? Do you know Tony Rhoden/Manley's enough to know the woo's their going through? I've been to the probate court records and my understanding is CRjr's has been done. (could be wrong) and that there have been repeated motions on estate lists of property to Tony Rhoden and he is behind in what he owes. Now I don't know what's going on with all of that, I just read what is there to read. Wasn't a guardian ad lem assigned to the children about there interests? And Betty, I for one don't want to argue about anything with you. I am just stating my opinions as you are. You seem kinda defensive lately and I don't no why. Not everyone on here agree's 100% with anyone. We just don't have enough information to put all the puzzle pieces together. All we have are very little facts and a whole lot of info on Pike Co that I never knew, and a lot of opinions, theories and guess's.

 

[rsd1200]

These type things attract my attention. Cop cars don't look like cop cars anymore, and sometimes, cops don't wear their badges prominently. Used to, if I saw a big, white, Ford LTD, I automatically looked at my speedometer. Cops wore unis that were similar, with the brass buttons, similar caps/hats, and prominent badges. Some don't even introduce themselves as LE sometimes, before they start chatting you up, these days. That is why folks pull over even if it doesn't "look" like a cop car. There is no "look" these days. It can be anything from a Mustang, to a Charger, to a SUV.

Kentucky State Police are investigating after a woman told them she was pulled over by two unmarked vehicles.

Troopers say the woman was pulled over twice less than a mile apart on US 25-E near the Bell County Veterinarian Clinic and again near the Imperial Bait Shop in Middlesboro. Both locations are within Bell County.

http://www.wymt.com/content/news/KS...vehicles-who-pulled-woman-over-479098023.html

 

[amauet1]

Thank you for your insight into the region. This case brought me here because, being from the region, only across the state line, I could see the Rhodens as folks who I know, and have known, as friends and kin. Like yours, my kin worked hard, and expected us to be good folks. One side of grandparents, never had running water in their home, and raised their family, in a warm, little, four room house, heated by a coal grate, and a stoker. I can still hear the coal popping and cracking, some days, when it's very cold. My grandmother was the rock of the family. My grandfather was sick most of his life, but raised fox hounds, and gardened, til he became too sick to do those things. My grandmother drove to work, 50 miles r/t, each day, not counting driving up into hollers and back, to haul riders, who didn't have a way to work, to make a little extra money. They went through a total burn out, but built back, with no insurance. They helped family, and others, but, folks didn't like to ask for help from neighbors, unless it was just no other way, and govt. help was even harder to take, even taking that govt. cheese was something that wasn't hardly done. My grandmother was always happy and loving, and my grandfather was a good man, but always sick, and it eventually robbed him of his sight. Both of them died at 60. I've lived in, and worked in, the region, my entire life. I don't know what the impetus was, to get these folks killed, but, someone did something unforgivable, and worthy of death, in the other's eyes. I agree, with the officer, that this was a punishment for something. Did they start dabbling in more than weed, and someone's child died, as a result? Was it seen as an eye for an eye? Did one of them try to blackmail a long time business partner? Then it backfired in a bad way? Idk. I do know that I've thought of these folks, and what it could have been, every day, for nearly two years.

Rsd, I too was raised this way. I remember watching my grandma making lye soap in a huge cast iron tub over an open fire. (She kinda looked like a witch over her coldren.) Anyway I watched her pour bacon grease and lye into that tub, and wondered how you could get things clean with grease in it. And then I worried about her using to much lye and washing with it, while my skin pealed off! LOL! The things kids think of. But we were taught to be proud of who we were, even though money was low at times, our clothes were clean and mended and so was our bodies. We never went hungry or without what we needed. My parents and grandparents made sure of that. We shared hand me downs between the children, nieces and nephews included. Family was important, you could always count on family to be there when and if needed. I'm a hillbilly and damn proud to have come from the people before me. So like you and others on here I can identify with the Rhoden's and Manleys.
Having said all that, I have also learned (the hard way) that family can also severely misuse you. Especially if they are drug addicts.

 

[amauet1]

RSBM

This! It has never sat well with me that all of the deceased’s possessions have been and are still being held. I think it’s absolutely unnecessary and cruel. There’s no reason that next of kin shouldn’t be given the deceased Rhoden/Gilley possessions such as clothes, memorabilia, photos, knickknacks, sentimental items etc. IMO, this is a cruel and heartless tactic on behalf of LE.

But then again we don't know why they are doing this.

 

[MizStery]

<snip>

Then again, there's folks who could have hated them enough that they'd sat around, had a few beers and talked about the Rs demise, for a long while now, then, the loosely formed plan, came together, and there was a tipping point of some sort. In this case, they'd talked about murdering both of these folks, bc of custody and child support, the bf murdered only the man, though, told the little girl, who woke up, to go back to bed, (that was in documentary) he ran out and left the front door open. The only way they broke the case, almost two years later, is that the gf decided to come forward and throw the bf, under the bus. This is just a small overview, it was much more in depth than this clip. The ex hated her ex, and his new spouse, and the custody arrangement with their daughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtafn6lM-cs

rsd1200 we are actually from the NE corner of Mississippi. Our family were all farmers. Most of the extended family still live in the same town or perhaps two towns over.

I would say about a third of mom and dad's friends went up north to Chicago for work. When dad was going to school we had several of the relatives live with us and look for work while searching for a apartment.I never met anyone from down home that ever planned on staying north. They all just wanted to earn enough money to get ahead and go back. I believe that's why so many ended up drinking. They were just good county farmers but were treated up north( by a lot of people) like ignorant hillbillies.(I apologize for the term.I never have liked hearing people use it)

In a small town just about any news (gossip)good or bad takes on a life of its own. People will talk about it probably for the rest of your life.I can definitely remember when mom opened a letter that dad's aunts son was wounded (shot) in a raccoon (coon) hunting accident. Stuff like that. Grudges ran deep against people,

Now remember everyone we had moved to the West Coast. So I can imagine after reading of the rivalries in Piketon i.e. car derbies,guarding the money from a cash grow,anger from warring families over child custody issues,Dana was worried about her kids,CRsr had to worry about protecting his investment in materials for the grow during the lengthy process of harvesting and drying the crop from thieves. Heck there was a lot going on in this family and extended the family that would generate jealousy and rivalries.

So yes it may sound benign but taken in its totality there was all the textbook forensics that can generate an act that ends with blood shed.
:cow:

 

[amauet1]

Yes, the Brown Co guy sounds like a psycho as much as a paid killer. He also doesn't sound very experienced (fortunately) as he was was caught by police. Odd the article doesn't mention much about the guy who paid him $20,000 to kill the woman - again over some drug/money deal gone wrong. JMO, these contract killings on drug dealers are much more common than we realize. We read in the paper and assume it's a death related to a drug deal gone bad, but don't realize many of the killings in certain cities, etc. are done by the same people - for about $25,000 or so per hit, plus all the drugs and money you can find.

The cost of killing the Rhodens would have been higher since the risk was so much greater, the work much more difficult in 4 different locations with multiple victims. As DeWine and Reader said, it would have taken quite a bit of planning to handle weapons, ammo, logistics, stealing drugs and/or money, removing security cameras, gaining access, etc. It would have been followed up by even more work to dispose of weapons, clothing, cars, etc.

But a bunch of rednecks sitting around drinking beer and deciding to do this because they were angry or jealous? Highly unlikely. JMO, that's victim blaming.

I do think W's were involved because of the custody issues and a falling out between CR1 and JW's father. But all they had to do was go to the drug boss above them, tell some lies about CR1, KR and the rest and the drug bosses higher up the food chain would have arranged it. W's are not smart or ambitious enough to pull off something like this. They didn't need to do it themselves.

IMO, it did not have to be a professional killer/s. Have you ever watched a hunter set up for a hunt? First of all they find a place to hunt that has been reported to have a lot of the game their after. Then they go to that place and walk around looking for signs of the game their after. If they find what they were looking for, they then plan the hunt out. Some even make lists of what is needed. Gun, ammo, camoflage, knife, scent, tree stand set up, food, cigs and rope to drag the game out of the woods, etc.etc.They go out before daylight, and find a place to watch for their game. They will sit there for hours, quietly watching and moving around if needed. They love it, and in a way, they plan a murder. After if their lucky they get what they came for. String the poor creature up in a tree (if large game) and slice it from breast bone to butt, spilling the insides on the ground. Later when they get it home, it is skinned and butchered. None of this bothers a hunter, it's just part of the hunt. With all this in mind, I can see a killer/s and very good planners, the game could have just been human.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, the Brown Co guy sounds like a psycho as much as a paid killer. He also doesn't sound very experienced (fortunately) as he was was caught by police. Odd the article doesn't mention much about the guy who paid him $20,000 to kill the woman - again over some drug/money deal gone wrong. JMO, these contract killings on drug dealers are much more common than we realize. We read in the paper and assume it's a death related to a drug deal gone bad, but don't realize many of the killings in certain cities, etc. are done by the same people - for about $25,000 or so per hit, plus all the drugs and money you can find.

The cost of killing the Rhodens would have been higher since the risk was so much greater, the work much more difficult in 4 different locations with multiple victims. As DeWine and Reader said, it would have taken quite a bit of planning to handle weapons, ammo, logistics, stealing drugs and/or money, removing security cameras, gaining access, etc. It would have been followed up by even more work to dispose of weapons, clothing, cars, etc.

But a bunch of rednecks sitting around drinking beer and deciding to do this because they were angry or jealous? Highly unlikely. JMO, that's victim blaming.

I do think W's were involved because of the custody issues and a falling out between CR1 and JW's father. But all they had to do was go to the drug boss above them, tell some lies about CR1, KR and the rest and the drug bosses higher up the food chain would have arranged it. W's are not smart or ambitious enough to pull off something like this. They didn't need to do it themselves.

BBM
What drug boss? If the Ws were into the drug game, they were doing a very poor job. Also, they couldn't just walk up to a drug boss and make up a story to get another person murdered, and then walk away, to Alaska, w/o a care in the world. If there was a high level drug boss, that both families answered to, and both the Ws and the Rs were in it jock strap deep, walking away is the last thing that either family would have been able to have done.

I do think that CR1 could have gotten into something, that he thought he could make some fast, easy, money and then get out. That's when the $h*t hit the fan. When you tell someone who is into a lot of illegal dealings, dealings that could put them in prison, for a very long time, and you happen to be privy to those dealings, that you're leaving the business, it doesn't go over very well. They turn from being your "friend", and your "employer" to being a threat. They see you as a turncoat, and a liability. They took you into their confidence, they helped you make something of yourself, they trusted you, and you have the audacity to say; It's been real, thanks, but, I'm out. Nope, that wouldn't set well.

I don't think that the Ws were into drug dealing, if they were, they weren't very good at it b/c they formerly all lived in a couple trailers on the elder W's land, then they had to live with their sons, and tried raising exotic animals, which seemed to be a bust. They almost had to give them away at the end. I think they liked to bore with a big auger, and it caught up to them. The places that Momma W was seeking to rent, in AK, were not in the high rent areas. JW quit hauling and took a different job, to be home more, for little S, after the murders. Remember, he was tapped out of cash, after all the lawyer fees. If he'd just up and quit hauling for a drug boss, he'd likely been dead before they ever sold that home. I don't blame them for moving, I'd not want my child to grow up down the road from that nightmare. Is it possible that they sat around, like Ben Oxley's ex and bf, and discussed ways of getting rid of them, til they decided to do so, and somehow did? It's possible, and that's why they are around #5, on my Whodunnit List, but I just don't see them as drug dealers.

 

[rsd1200]

Rsd, I too was raised this way. I remember watching my grandma making lye soap in a huge cast iron tub over an open fire. (She kinda looked like a witch over her coldren.) Anyway I watched her pour bacon grease and lye into that tub, and wondered how you could get things clean with grease in it. And then I worried about her using to much lye and washing with it, while my skin pealed off! LOL! The things kids think of. But we were taught to be proud of who we were, even though money was low at times, our clothes were clean and mended and so was our bodies. We never went hungry or without what we needed. My parents and grandparents made sure of that. We shared hand me downs between the children, nieces and nephews included. Family was important, you could always count on family to be there when and if needed. I'm a hillbilly and damn proud to have come from the people before me. So like you and others on here I can identify with the Rhoden's and Manleys.
Having said all that, I have also learned (the hard way) that family can also severely misuse you. Especially if they are drug addicts.

Same here amauet. I consider hillbilly a compliment. Speaking to your last statement, yes, agree. Unfortunately, when folks get addicted, they'll take the pennies off a dead man's eyes. Someone stole a vehicle, out of the front yard, in broad daylight! You could see where they'd rolled it up onto a trailer, and just drove off. They weren't kin, but I'm almost positive I know the person who did it, they are an addict, and I haven't seen them around since it happened, so... Haven't ever seen the vehicle again, either. It's probably about the size of a sugar cube now. Addiction will make folks do things, that they'd never have thought they'd do, before the addiction took hold of their lives. Could someone give an addict some of the stuff they crave, then chat them up? Absolutely. The addict probably may not even remember what all they'd told the next day.

 

[rsd1200]

rsd1200 we are actually from the NE corner of Mississippi. Our family were all farmers. Most of the extended family still live in the same town or perhaps two towns over.

I would say about a third of mom and dad's friends went up north to Chicago for work. When dad was going to school we had several of the relatives live with us and look for work while searching for a apartment.I never met anyone from down home that ever planned on staying north. They all just wanted to earn enough money to get ahead and go back. I believe that's why so many ended up drinking. They were just good county farmers but were treated up north( by a lot of people) like ignorant hillbillies.(I apologize for the term.I never have liked hearing people use it)

In a small town just about any news (gossip)good or bad takes on a life of its own. People will talk about it probably for the rest of your life.I can definitely remember when mom opened a letter that dad's aunts son was wounded (shot) in a raccoon (coon) hunting accident. Stuff like that. Grudges ran deep against people,

Now remember everyone we had moved to the West Coast. So I can imagine after reading of the rivalries in Piketon i.e. car derbies,guarding the money from a cash grow,anger from warring families over child custody issues,Dana was worried about her kids,CRsr had to worry about protecting his investment in materials for the grow during the lengthy process of harvesting and drying the crop from thieves. Heck there was a lot going on in this family and extended the family that would generate jealousy and rivalries.

So yes it may sound benign but taken in its totality there was all the textbook forensics that can generate an act that ends with blood shed.
:cow:

BBM

This. They most certainly do. Those grudges can be against immediate family too, and if it eats at them long enough, well, there's a fine line between love and hate. I just lean toward this being very personal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a business aspect.

Some of my kin moved up to Ohio to find jobs. I don't know that it was planned to be permanent, but they met spouses there, and stayed. Until my grandparents passed they came down pretty frequently. We cousins still try to keep in contact.

 

[Betty P]

IMO, it did not have to be a professional killer/s. Have you ever watched a hunter set up for a hunt? First of all they find a place to hunt that has been reported to have a lot of the game their after. Then they go to that place and walk around looking for signs of the game their after. If they find what they were looking for, they then plan the hunt out. Some even make lists of what is needed. Gun, ammo, camoflage, knife, scent, tree stand set up, food, cigs and rope to drag the game out of the woods, etc.etc.They go out before daylight, and find a place to watch for their game. They will sit there for hours, quietly watching and moving around if needed. They love it, and in a way, they plan a murder. After if their lucky they get what they came for. String the poor creature up in a tree (if large game) and slice it from breast bone to butt, spilling the insides on the ground. Later when they get it home, it is skinned and butchered. None of this bothers a hunter, it's just part of the hunt. With all this in mind, I can see a killer/s and very good planners, the game could have just been human.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. They need to be experienced at killing other human beings, at breaking into 4 different homes catching victims in their sleep, without being noticed by anyone else and quickly enough that no one could make a quick call for help.

On this, I'm willing to believe what DeWine said - these were not your everyday kind of murders. Cold blooded killers who didn't mind killing mothers lying next to infants, a teen aged mom and her teen aged brother.

If hillbillies are such rage filled, irrational gossiping people, we would see these kinds of murders much more often. The statistics just don't bear it out.

Some folks may want easy answers to this, but if locals sitting around drinking beer planned and executed this massacre, LE would have caught them by now and these kinds of murders would be happening with much greater frequency.

Yes the W family likely has some connections to people in the drug biz, most likely the same connections CR1 had. Yes, they would have had the ability to pass on information that would get the Rhodens killed. We've also discussed the possibility of rogue LE leaking information that CR1 or someone else was talking to LE about the business.

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[Betty P]

BBM

This. They most certainly do. Those grudges can be against immediate family too, and if it eats at them long enough, well, there's a fine line between love and hate. I just lean toward this being very personal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a business aspect.

Some of my kin moved up to Ohio to find jobs. I don't know that it was planned to be permanent, but they met spouses there, and stayed. Until my grandparents passed they came down pretty frequently. We cousins still try to keep in contact.

So why isn't the murder rate in these areas so high?

http://www.ocjs.ohio.gov/crime_stats_reports.stm

 

[rsd1200]

So why isn't the murder rate in these areas so high?

http://www.ocjs.ohio.gov/crime_stats_reports.stm

No body is saying that this is something that happens on a frequent basis. Obviously, it doesn't. Just because people can hold a grudge or can shun family does not mean they will kill them. Nowhere did I say that our region is filled with rage-filled murderers, (In fact, I noted earlier, that my county hadn't had a murder in 10 years), but, there are cases, of retribution. Could someone known to the Rs, have planned this out? I think they could have. I'm not saying it isn't drugs, or it isn't contract killers, I'm just saying, it might be about something more personal, at the end of the day, and someone close, might very well have provided info, and been there that night.

I also agree with amauet, avid hunters, maybe w/some sort of LE or military background, (neither uncommon) and yes, I think they could plan this out. When this first happened, Dewine said that somebody, who was in on this, had to be familiar with the properties. Reader had BCI called within an hour or so of finding the bodies. By 2:30 or so, that day, they'd figured out that this was specifically targeted to eradicate this family, and, basically, no one else was in danger. This could very well have been business, but that doesn't mean it wasn't very personal. There was a whole lot of hate aimed at these folks, imo. As LM himself said;

They were shot a total of 32 times, mostly in the head. Manley said his daughter Dana was shot in the head five times.&#8220;It&#8217;s more like a hate crime than anything,&#8221; he said of the barbaric nature of the murders.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...rs-abound-pike-county/sw88H0SRjuYVltzKX3xXUO/

[FONT=&quot]DeWine said the murders were &#8220;well planned&#8221; and executed by more than one person. He said at least one person involved was familiar with the properties where the bodies were found. [/FONT]

http://www.whio.com/news/crime--law...ed-knew-the-territory/lzgfo60J12ruE4BjV9NosN/

 

[Dudly]

I've been thinking about the number of times each person was shot. It seems like all but one were a "hit and run" type thing where they make sure the victim could not survive and they didn't have to make sure they were dead. Did they have more time with KR? Did they feel they had enough time to do other things and just make sure he was dead before they left? Did they know he could not survive that one shot?