OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[Nickandnora]

Who was living at the place with the heart shaped pond that KR's daughter talked about swimming and or fishing with HMR? I thought DR and the kids lived there before moving to the new place on UHR. I can't believe they all lived in that on trailer house with FR, HHG and the kids. That would have been a huge crowd of people in that trailer house.

Dana, HMR, CRJr, lived on the property with the heart shape pond, that was the reason HMR referred to it as her pond. I believe it was in the vicinity of KR camper.They never lived with FR, BR lived with FR and HHG.The televised search warrant that they only showed a old barn, I believe was were Dana and the kids lived before she moved to her new house.

 

[rsd1200]

Who was living at the place with the heart shaped pond that KR's daughter talked about swimming and or fishing with HMR? I thought DR and the kids lived there before moving to the new place on UHR. I can't believe they all lived in that on trailer house with FR, HHG and the kids. That would have been a huge crowd of people in that trailer house.

I don't know for sure, who was living there, when I saw the pond posted on her FB, dated May 26, 2015, but we do know who lived there on 4/21/2016. Here is the pond, I'm 99% sure.

 

[rsd1200]

Dana, HMR, CRJr, lived on the property with the heart shape pond, that was the reason HMR referred to it as her pond. I believe it was in the vicinity of KR camper.They never lived with FR, BR lived with FR and HHG.The televised search warrant that they only showed a old barn, I believe was were Dana and the kids lived before she moved to her new house.

You are right, I got confused. The pond started out as kinda nothing, and then, I guess they scooped it out and it may be fed by a creek or just rainwater. It's very pretty from what can be seen from the overheads but I don't think that I'd want to swim in it.

Edit: But didn't someone else live with FR for a bit? And, didn't they kinda ask BR to move along, when the baby came?

 

[Dudly]

Agree and you've proved my point. IMO, the W's didn't have enough money to pay a "professional hit. Playing more devils advocate, JW didn't have a criminal background except for misdemeanors. With a clean record he would have gotten custody for little S easily. So why was Crjr, FR, HHG, GR, and KR killed? They didn't have anything to do with the custody of little S. But then again why haven't the W's or their powerful family sued the state/county for slander? That lawyer of theirs seems very smart and aggressive on their part. Same with JM and the text, if there wasn't something in the text, LM would have been shouting to the world about that. They also have a lawyer now. So there must be connections in both these families to the murders. JMO, but family protects family, that kind of trust in each other is pretty tight. So to me , a bunch of random bad guys could have killed this family, but wouldn't be able to trust each other with keeping something this big a secret. They would brag about it to someone. JMO

Could they sue for slander? They have not been officially accused of anything.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Could they sue for slander? They have not been officially accused of anything.

That would be interesting because I’m sure Dewine & his office would either have to some sort of show evidence to substantiate his comments about the W’s and show that it wasn’t slander, unless of course they wanted to continue to be tight lipped on evidence and cost the state millions on a defamation case. We saw what they did with JM when his attorney requested the evidence against him to warrant the GPS-he was taken to a grand jury.

Then again, maybe the W’s don’t want to sue for slander and risk being sent in front a grand jury .

 

[Dudly]

Funny thing is, that truck looks like it's on it's last legs. Looks like it probably smokes when you start it up and I bet the mufflers not in great shape either. Reminds of all those other junk cars that were around CRsr's. Wonder if LE/BCI noticed any new parts on that truck to make it quiet and smoke free?

Didn't LM say JM was fixing the exhaust on the truck when he found the tracking device?

 

[Dudly]

I don't know for sure, who was living there, when I saw the pond posted on her FB, dated May 26, 2015, but we do know who lived there on 4/21/2016. Here is the pond, I'm 99% sure.

That is the place I was referring to with the heart shaped pond. I know LE searched the property but the news video I saw about the search only showed the barn from a distance...

 

[RichP]

I still find it interesting that the attorney JM hired after his arrest was so focused on discovery and looking at the evidence that LE had to justify their focus on JM. It seemed to go beyond the attorney's belief that evidence from discovery would exonerate JM, but that the warrant, affidavits, etc. would reveal a lot more about the real killers and accomplices. More specifically, JMO, he wanted to see what the files showed about their case against JW.

Betty,
I don't find it odd at all. As far as I'm concerned he was doing what a good defence att'y should do. Find out every piece of info that LE has on your client. If you were accused of something wouldn't you want your att'y to do the same thing?

 

[Betty P]

Agree and you've proved my point. IMO, the W's didn't have enough money to pay a "professional hit. Playing more devils advocate, JW didn't have a criminal background except for misdemeanors. With a clean record he would have gotten custody for little S easily. So why was Crjr, FR, HHG, GR, and KR killed? They didn't have anything to do with the custody of little S. But then again why haven't the W's or their powerful family sued the state/county for slander? That lawyer of theirs seems very smart and aggressive on their part. Same with JM and the text, if there wasn't something in the text, LM would have been shouting to the world about that. They also have a lawyer now. So there must be connections in both these families to the murders. JMO, but family protects family, that kind of trust in each other is pretty tight. So to me , a bunch of random bad guys could have killed this family, but wouldn't be able to trust each other with keeping something this big a secret. They would brag about it to someone. JMO

Just a thought. The W family didn't need to pay for the hit, nor did they order it. They may have been doing business with the person who had the money and the power - a drug boss. All they had to do was go to the drug boss and tell him that the Rhodens were snitches or were stealing. The drug boss already has enough drama going on in other areas with LE breathing down their neck or others compromising operations. The Rhoden murders, as many have concluded, were also done to send a big, loud message to others in the area - keep quiet or you're next.

I'm not sure why some people have a hard time accepting that the W family might have also been involved in illegal activity. There were just as many opportunities for them to be involved in growing, dealing or hauling product. There's also the possibility of LE involvement, not necessarily from Pike County, but others in the region. Anyone ever wonder why LE from other counties haven't been involved much in the investigation? Since the Golden State Killer has been captured, I've been reading a lot about how his knowledge of LE investigations helped him evade investigators when committing crimes.

Another thought to ponder about the red truck that JM owned - since LE likely knew who owned that truck at the time of the murders, shouldn't they have put a tracker on it right away, before it was given to JM? Just food for thought.

 

[Betty P]

Betty,
I don't find it odd at all. As far as I'm concerned he was doing what a good defence att'y should do. Find out every piece of info that LE has on your client. If you were accused of something wouldn't you want your att'y to do the same thing?

Of course he would, that's common knowledge, not something a defense attorney needs to mention to the news media. There was something in his comments to the news media that sounded like a threat. As if he knew what was in the investigation files, knew it would show his client was innocent and would reveal something else that LE didn't want revealed, but possibly should be revealed. It sounded like JM's attorney thought he was going to be "railroaded" and knew which buttons to push to get the attention of LE and prosecutors.

Anyone else get the impression that there are more than a few people in LE and the criminal justice system down there who know what happened to the Rhoden family, but can't say? The lawyer's statement indicated to me that they're not all on the same page with how this investigation is being conducted. There were also Reader's comments on his Facebook page complaining about "politicians". JM's lawyer pushed those buttons in public, in the news media, not behind closed doors.

JMO, they're all in a holding pattern right now until after the elections in May and November. Once DeWine is gone from the AG's office, this investigation may start moving again.

:moo:

https://www.daytondailynews.com/new...ey-family-lawyer-says/j5XAhhTyvWyGJ3XT21u67O/

James Boulger, Manley’s attorney, objected to the state’s request the case go directly before the grand jury, noting prosecutors have demonstrated no evidence to support the charges.

Asked if his client was innocent of the tampering and vandalism accusations — Manley’s father has said his son destroyed the GPS device — Boulger took an extended pause.

“I believe that he is, but I have not seen any of the evidence that would have supported probable cause that is supposed to exist before you file a criminal complaint,” Boulger said.

“I think they want to put some pressure on him,” Boulger said. “Try to induce him to give them information that they think that he has. That’s what I think that they’re up to.”

And does he have any information that is of interest to investigators?

“Apparently not,” the attorney said.

 

[rsd1200]

Could they sue for slander? They have not been officially accused of anything.

They could, but it would be tough to win, as no one has even called them so much as poi. Same with JM. It's called Governmental Immunity, and it protects against such suits, typically, unless it's just malicious, or foolhardy, on behalf of LE. Here is an article that kinda explains how LE and the press, are protected from such suits.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...olice-as-the-suspect-in-dallas-shootings-sue/

 

[rsd1200]

Just a thought. The W family didn't need to pay for the hit, nor did they order it. They may have been doing business with the person who had the money and the power - a drug boss. All they had to do was go to the drug boss and tell him that the Rhodens were snitches or were stealing. The drug boss already has enough drama going on in other areas with LE breathing down their neck or others compromising operations. The Rhoden murders, as many have concluded, were also done to send a big, loud message to others in the area - keep quiet or you're next.

I'm not sure why some people have a hard time accepting that the W family might have also been involved in illegal activity. There were just as many opportunities for them to be involved in growing, dealing or hauling product. There's also the possibility of LE involvement, not necessarily from Pike County, but others in the region. Anyone ever wonder why LE from other counties haven't been involved much in the investigation? Since the Golden State Killer has been captured, I've been reading a lot about how his knowledge of LE investigations helped him evade investigators when committing crimes.

Another thought to ponder about the red truck that JM owned - since LE likely knew who owned that truck at the time of the murders, shouldn't they have put a tracker on it right away, before it was given to JM? Just food for thought.

I could see the Ws maybe being mules. I just don't see them as being of much use for anything else, in the drug industry. They obviously have no money skills, they can't grow anything, they didn't become successful raising those "pocket beagles" and exotic pigs, and such. They fell for the exotic animal pyramid scheme. I don't know how many folks have animals around here that they can't get rid of because someone sold them, on some money making idea, with exotic goats, horses, etc... The animals end up eventually at a slaughter house, when their owners can't afford to feed their investment any longer. That's just my take on them. They are on my radar, I just have someone else a notch higher than them, on my radar. Do I think that the Ws could have done this, all by themselves? Yep, and maybe with a little help from some out of town friends, or a family turncoat. Why, if they're only bright enough to be drug mules? They were/are avid hunters and that's one thing that they were very good at doing. Just look at the interior pics of their home. Just a different type of quarry and one they knew well.

ETA: If, they did go to a drug boss, and tell them that the Rs were snitches, the boss wouldn't likely just take their word for it. He'd want to know where they got their intel, who they got it from, how they got it, and then if it checked out, they'd likely take out the men (CR1, GR, and KR), or, like the family I told ya'll about, they'd take out one, and the rest would get the point. If they found they weren't? Then the Ws would have to answer to that.

 

[altojack]

Wow, I've got a good few pages to read to catch-up, so no idea what's happened if anything since early yesterday.
O/T I flew from home in UK this morning and am now sipping a cocktail, well it is 5.25pm. I might get to catch-up on some reading later.

 

[Dudly]

I could see the Ws maybe being mules. I just don't see them as being of much use for anything else, in the drug industry. They obviously have no money skills, they can't grow anything, they didn't become successful raising those "pocket beagles" and exotic pigs, and such. They fell for the exotic animal pyramid scheme. I don't know how many folks have animals around here that they can't get rid of because someone sold them, on some money making idea, with exotic goats, horses, etc... The animals end up eventually at a slaughter house, when their owners can't afford to feed their investment any longer. That's just my take on them. They are on my radar, I just have someone else a notch higher than them, on my radar. Do I think that the Ws could have done this, all by themselves? Yep, and maybe with a little help from some out of town friends, or a family turncoat. Why, if they're only bright enough to be drug mules? They were/are avid hunters and that's one thing that they were very good at doing. Just look at the interior pics of their home. Just a different type of quarry and one they knew well.

ETA: If, they did go to a drug boss, and tell them that the Rs were snitches, the boss wouldn't likely just take their word for it. He'd want to know where they got their intel, who they got it from, how they got it, and then if it checked out, they'd likely take out the men (CR1, GR, and KR), or, like the family I told ya'll about, they'd take out one, and the rest would get the point. If they found they weren't? Then the Ws would have to answer to that.

That happened to a lot of people with Ostrich, Emu, Hedge Hogs, etc.. Ostrich were as high as $25,000 for a hen at one time and fertile eggs were $1000 but there was no end market. Eventually they dropped to about $25.00. A lot of people lost a fortune...

 

[Betty P]

I could see the Ws maybe being mules. I just don't see them as being of much use for anything else, in the drug industry. They obviously have no money skills, they can't grow anything, they didn't become successful raising those "pocket beagles" and exotic pigs, and such. They fell for the exotic animal pyramid scheme. I don't know how many folks have animals around here that they can't get rid of because someone sold them, on some money making idea, with exotic goats, horses, etc... The animals end up eventually at a slaughter house, when their owners can't afford to feed their investment any longer. That's just my take on them. They are on my radar, I just have someone else a notch higher than them, on my radar. Do I think that the Ws could have done this, all by themselves? Yep, and maybe with a little help from some out of town friends, or a family turncoat. Why, if they're only bright enough to be drug mules? They were/are avid hunters and that's one thing that they were very good at doing. Just look at the interior pics of their home. Just a different type of quarry and one they knew well.

ETA: If, they did go to a drug boss, and tell them that the Rs were snitches, the boss wouldn't likely just take their word for it. He'd want to know where they got their intel, who they got it from, how they got it, and then if it checked out, they'd likely take out the men (CR1, GR, and KR), or, like the family I told ya'll about, they'd take out one, and the rest would get the point. If they found they weren't? Then the Ws would have to answer to that.

I've been reading up on the Golden State Killer aka EAR/ONS over the last several days. There was a lot of very good analysis of the rapes and murders he committed over the years. As with the Rhoden killers, he was a guy who spent years perfecting his ability to spy on his victims, then creep in on them late at night, while they were asleep, in the dark. He learned how to gain entry, then surprise and gain control of at least 2 victims (sometimes more) before raping and or killing them. He learned how to avoid leaving any evidence behind and escape the crime scene in a way that he wasn't noticed and couldn't be tracked very far. He usually took his weapon away from the scene and disposed of them, never to be found by LE.

He was able to develop these skills because he was in LE (he knew what evidence they looked for, how they profiled the attacker and how to track him). Even with practice and skill, he made mistakes, victims got away, crimes were aborted. It takes an incredible amount of planning and work to pull off a crime like this without losing control of the situation, especially when multiple people are in the residence. It's pretty amazing he did this for years, but remember, he was committing the rapes on a periodic basis. His murders were spaced 5 months apart on average. Trying to commit them too frequently would lead to mistakes and getting caught.

Now imagine the skill involved in planning and executing the murders of 8 people in 4 different locations in one night, in the space of a few hours at best. That's highly unusual, operating at a high level of both skill, mental focus, discipline, planning and physical endurance. Its not the same as walking into a room, mowing down a crowd of people, then escaping. It's stalking, approaching, gaining entry, subduing dogs, finding victims quickly (in some cases fighting and subduing them), killing them (in the dark), cleaning up the crime scene, checking for cops, then escaping only to drive down the road and do it again, and again, and again. All without making a mistake or alerting witnesses who could call police.

No, I don't think people who have no experience at this level of criminal activity could have pulled this off. I don't care how many deer or squirrels they may have killed in the woods. Wild game doesn't live in houses, with guns nearby and cell phones they can use to call 911. They don't fight back or try to take your gun away from you.

The Rhoden murders were a master class in pre-planned executions. That 2 yrs later there have been no arrests if more confirmation. There's no way a bunch of meth-ed up local yokels pulled this off. No one is that lucky. CR1 would have killed or seriously wounded them when he fought them at his trailer.

Here are some links to the Quester Files - a web site by a guy who examines a lot of cold cases. These links are to his analysis of the GSK, how he staked out victims, approached them, etc. It's a lot of work. How do a bunch of young or middle aged rednecks pull off 4 of these in 1 night without getting hurt or caught for 2 years?

http://www.thequesterfiles.com/murder_1___2_--_manning-offerm.html

http://www.thequesterfiles.com/murder_3___4_--_lyman___charle.html

I was thinking of sitting down and analyzing the crime at each Rhoden crime scene. Step by step. We've done some of this before here and there. Doing it can tell us something about the killers. Anyone want to volunteer to go to UHR to photograph scenes, exit routes, etc.? Well?

ETA: I could be wrong on this, but if it's the local gentry, who trained them to do this? Law enforcement tactics, learning multiple ways of hindering investigations, etc. are not something you learn on You Tube. I think some of the locals knew it was going down that night, most likely JW. If JM was involved, it was someone telling him something different was happening that night. He was the patsy.

 

[Betty P]

That happened to a lot of people with Ostrich, Emu, Hedge Hogs, etc.. Ostrich were as high as $25,000 for a hen at one time and fertile eggs were $1000 but there was no end market. Eventually they dropped to about $25.00. A lot of people lost a fortune...

People involved in the drug/MJ trade usually avoid the appearance of having money. The W's may not have made much profit from their exotic animal sales, but maybe it was a front to make it appear they earned a living that way. I still think they were getting help from Grandma W. She owns a lot of property all around Scioto and Pike County, has investments. They stand to inherit a great deal from her.

Remember, too, that Ohio BCI raided Flying W Farm, too. There was some kind of business, etc. that was going on there, too.

ETA: I wonder how well the border patrol inspected the W's trucks/trailers on the way to AK? I wonder if they had hidden away a lot of cash to carry them over while living in AK?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Snipped for focus

Now imagine the skill involved in planning and executing the murders of 8 people in 4 different locations in one night, in the space of a few hours at best.

I agree these murders took extensive planning. However, I don’t believe murdering them all in one night would have taken extensive skill, for a couple reasons. 1) It happened. And over 2 years later, the murders are still unsolved. 2) 3 of the 4 locations were extremely close together. 3) the locations are extremely rural, without street lights, little traffic (from my understanding), and part of a culture where neighbors out in the country mind their own business.

I don’t believe it takes much skill to ambush trailers on large wooded lots in the pitch dark of night. CRsr’s home and even FR’s, both had an unbelievable amount of clutter surrounding them that would have provided many locations for people to hide in the darkness.

That's highly unusual, operating at a high level of both skill, mental focus, discipline, planning and physical endurance. Its not the same as walking into a room, mowing down a crowd of people, then escaping. It's stalking, approaching, gaining entry, subduing dogs, finding victims quickly (in some cases fighting and subduing them), killing them (in the dark), cleaning up the crime scene, checking for cops, then escaping only to drive down the road and do it again, and again, and again. All without making a mistake or alerting witnesses who could call police.

I agree, skill and mental focus were definitely needed to commit this crime. However, the skill could have been based on using simple blindsided betrayal by someone the family would have never expected. Mental focus is easy to achieve if someone has enough anger, hate, and determination inside of them. Is it possible this mental focus was something that was slowly built over a period of years, until it finally erupted?

What types of things leads to such anger, hate, and pure evil?


As far as killing them in the dark, what we don’t know is-did the killer(s) flip on light switches when they walked in bedrooms? Or perhaps they had headlamps and lasers on their guns? We do know CR & GR were probably awake or perhaps CR’s dogs started barking (waking him and GR) and he, himself let the dogs outside before he was ambushed? I tend to lean towards the former, those two men were awake. Or maybe the murder(er) was already inside CR’s home with him and GR. Someone he at least semi trusted and would never have expected to ambush and murder him and his entire family.

I tend to believe escaping down the road would have been difficult IF these homes were in a city setting. But again, being so rural, it made it that much easier for whoever did this to go unnoticed. As most small towns go, LE doesn’t tend to patrol the outskirts and country roads as frequently as they do the main roads.

No, I don't think people who have no experience at this level of criminal activity could have pulled this off. I don't care how many deer or squirrels they may have killed in the woods. Wild game doesn't live in houses, with guns nearby and cell phones they can use to call 911. They don't fight back or try to take your gun away from you.

It’s true wild game doesn’t live in houses, BUT It seems it would be easier to kill wild game if they were in captivity versus running wild. Walk into a deer farm, you’ll see a whole herd of deer in their fenced grazing enclosure, but if you walk out into the wild, you’ll be lucky to see one. Hunting requires extreme skill and patience.

The Rhoden murders were a master class in pre-planned executions. That 2 yrs later there have been no arrests if more confirmation. There's no way a bunch of meth-ed up local yokels pulled this off. No one is that lucky. CR1 would have killed or seriously wounded them when he fought them at his trailer.

Absolutely 100% these murders were pre planned executions. But, meth. Woah. Meth is a powerful drug. It makes people do some insane stuff. I don’t believe CRsr has the opportunity to kill or wound the murderer(s). My best guess is he was caught off guard by someone he trusted and wasn’t able to get to his own weapons in order to defend himself.

Speaking of lucky, I’ve been researching the probability of coincidences. Partly because I struggle with accepting that there were so many coincidences surrounding these murders and also because it’s my opinion that LE finds all the coincidences puzzling as well.

“The study of coincidences requires a basic education in probability. Why? Because the lower the probability (or the higher the improbability), the more likely that there is a hidden cause or explanation.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...incidence/201705/synchronicity-statistics?amp

https://understandinguncertainty.org/node/129

A couple links on probability and coincidences.


All 4 houses were supposed to or did have house guests that night.
MG was supposed to spend the night with HHG, but instead didn’t make the turn onto UHR and went home and slept in her own bed.
KR2 was supposed to spend the night with HMR, but took a last minute babysitting job and her bf had a toothache.
DS was supposed to spend the night with KR to go to a car audition the next morning. He didn’t stay the night and also didn’t go over the next morning to go to the car auction.
GR was staying with CRsr.

Then there’s JW, who dyed his hair. BJM who just happened to have two friends with her the morning she discovered 4 bodies. The entire W family who didn’t attend one funeral and then packed up an moved 4000 miles away. There’s more, but I’m trying not to ramble.

I was thinking of sitting down and analyzing the crime at each Rhoden crime scene. Step by step. We've done some of this before here and there. Doing it can tell us something about the killers. Anyone want to volunteer to go to UHR to photograph scenes, exit routes, etc.? Well?

I’m happy to help analyze. A few things we could start with are the murder weapon(s)-were they weapons of opportunity such as a knife laying on the counter? No, the weapons were guns and definitely not a weapon of opportunity.

Another thing to consider is that BJM stated she lifted a blanket off of CRsr. A victim being covered by the perpetrator(s) is typically a sign of remorse, shame, or guilt. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/disturbed/201110/profiling-murderer?amp

Sparing young children and animals could be an indication that the killer(s) has a soft spot for kids and animals. Or perhaps, young children and animals were spared because they can’t talk.

These are all just my thoughts and opinions mixed with some research, but both my head and my heart tell me the Rhoden’s and Hannah Gilley were not killed because of some type of organized crime.

 

[RichP]

Now imagine the skill involved in planning and executing the murders of 8 people in 4 different locations in one night, in the space of a few hours at best. That's highly unusual, operating at a high level of both skill, mental focus, discipline, planning and physical endurance. Its not the same as walking into a room, mowing down a crowd of people, then escaping. It's stalking, approaching, gaining entry, subduing dogs, finding victims quickly (in some cases fighting and subduing them), killing them (in the dark), cleaning up the crime scene, checking for cops, then escaping only to drive down the road and do it again, and again, and again. All without making a mistake or alerting witnesses who could call police.
.

I agree. What you are describing is something that took some time to do which is why I don't buy into the theory of coming in the "back way" with ATVs. Much faster to go on the road with a car.

I've also never bought into the idea that the Wagners did it or even knew about it and it sure wasn't about custody. IMO

I also think that KR was the unwitting patsy.

We differ on my last two points. You're on the Wagner's and JM are involved side and I'm not. But that's certainly okay.

 

[rsd1200]

That happened to a lot of people with Ostrich, Emu, Hedge Hogs, etc.. Ostrich were as high as $25,000 for a hen at one time and fertile eggs were $1000 but there was no end market. Eventually they dropped to about $25.00. A lot of people lost a fortune...

Yep, we have folks here who hung onto a couple as pasture pets, there's one guy who lives near us who bought a gosh awful amount of the next up and coming breed of horse. Couldn't GIVE them away. He lost his butt. Had to just take them to the yards and lettem' go at auction. It was just sad to watch. One fella leased pasture near us for his heard of animals and I don't think he sold 10 in 10 years. He went bankrupt and they foreclosed on his home recently. A friend got into those special kind of goats and nearly went under. Yes, you can milk them and eat them but hardly anyone will. They buy one or two as pasture pets and that's it. It's really sad to watch. The Ws were trying to sell of a whole herd off some sort of goats well before the murders and had already started dropping prices on those odd looking furry pigs (why anyone would want one is beyond me ). Our family raised hogs but they were for the dinner table... To each their own. I feel sorry for folks though when I see the ads, and the prices keep dropping. Someone sold them a line.

 

[Betty P]

Hi Mittens,

Some interesting theories.

WRT ease of invading homes at night in a rural area, the killings at the trailers of CR1 and FR were somewhat difficult. The homes were close enough that any ruckus caused would have awakened people in the other trailer. The Rhodens were already on high alert, per previous reports. Had someone heard something, they would have responded, quickly. In addition, both of those trailers are fairly close to UHR. Anyone driving by (including LE on patrol) could have seen or heard something.

Covering victims with a blanket - Its true, that is often the sign of a killer knowing their victim. It's possible one or two locals were along for this killing spree. It could also have been done to keep anyone peeping through the door to check on them from seeing the victims - buying time to finish the job and get away. Other times, killers have covered their victims to prevent getting blood spatter on themselves.

As for being able to hide behind clutter if detected, that's true if someone is driving by. If they're hiding because they've gotten the victim's attention before entering, that's a problem

As for planning, yes, people could sit down and plan something like this. The problem is dealing with unplanned situations - and there were likely quite a few in this murder spree. Ask any LEO and they will tell you that killers who are enraged will make mistakes. It makes you behave impulsively and recklessly, unless you have a lot of experience at what you're doing.

CR1 and Gary may have been awake and caught off guard, but more likely they were asleep. According to LE, the victims were killed in their sleep. Killers aren't usually going to vary their MO, especially in a 1 night spree. JMO, they waited until everyone was asleep, lights out. It would be easier to do so. CR1 was badly beaten, so unless he was tied up, he fought back. JMO, any DNA they retrieved from the perps was most likely found at CR1's trailer, where one of the killers was likely wounded - whether a bloody nose or scratched by CR1 as he struggled.

JMO, if they were torturing CR1 to get information, how did they keep from raising the alarm at FR's?

As for people who said they were supposed to be at one of the crime scenes, I've never put a lot of importance in that. People say those kinds of things after a catastrophic event (a plane crash, etc) , fearing how close they could have been to getting killed. If they were in any way involved in the murders, they wouldn't have drawn suspicion to themselves by sharing it in the news media. Seems they would have kept that information secret if they were involved.

I'm not an expert on guns, but the idea of laser lights on guns and night vision goggles were ideas discussed here early on. I'm assuming these things are easy to access, but would require some skill in using them in confined spaces. Killers would also have to be very aware of the location of their accomplices to make sure they're not getting hit by a stray bullet. I can imagine shooting off guns multiple times in small rooms is very risky. Is it also possible they wore some kind of body armor? We've also discussed the possibility they were dressed to look like LE, maybe in tactical gear. All of that would fit. They were also probably wearing ski masks or whatever. Perhaps that's how they knew FR's little boy wouldn't recognize them.

We also wondered about how deaf the killers would be after shooting guns indoors so many times. Even with noise suppressors, it seems their ears would still be ringing like mad after the first 2 murders.

I've also wondered if they didn't park their vehicles some distance from the homes and hiked to them through the woods behind their homes. It would be helpful for approaching the homes undetected, but they would need a good escape route if things went wrong on the way out.

But I still think most of the killers were strangers. People close to the family, with no experience in murdering someone in cold blood couldn't have pulled off murders at 4 crime scenes without screwing up, leaving something behind, etc.

ETA: WRT the unusual amount of mileage that was put on JM's truck before he purchased it: I wonder if the previous owner used it for a trip to Mexico or AZ or CA? Those are the established corridors for moving MJ, etc, into Ohio.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/cincinnati/press-releases/2010/ci021710.htm

The investigation into Walls and May began as a result of a traffic stop on October 17, 2004, in Preble County, Ohio. Deputies with the Preble County Sheriff’s Office stopped a white pickup truck and found more than 400 pounds of marijuana. The driver of the vehicle, Paul Burnes of Mesa, Arizona, agreed to cooperate with authorities and go through with the delivery of the marijuana to the Ohio buyers who were waiting with the source of supply at a truck stop at the Jeffersonville mall exit at I-71 and State Route 35. Members of the Fayette County Sheriff’s Office, Preble County Sheriff’s Office, BCI and FBI set up surveillance of the area. They saw the driver of the pickup truck meet with two other vehicles, a white van driven by May and a maroon pickup truck, driven by Walls. Burnes was charged with possession with intent to distribute over 100 kilograms of marijuana and was sentenced to 48 months in prison

The three vehicles left the mall in a caravan, with the pickup truck containing the marijuana in the middle. The vehicles were followed in this caravan for approximately 10 miles through Fayette County, until law enforcement authorities pulled them over. In the van with May was Raymundo Carranza from Arizona. In the pickup truck with Walls was Jose Guadalupe Canez from Mexico.

Following that stop, the four were released from state custody and the case was referred for federal prosecution as part of the Chilly Loco investigation. Over the past five years, investigators developed additional evidence to establish Walls had been trafficking in marijuana in this area since at least 1997. Walls developed sources in both Arizona and San Diego, California and arranged for the shipment of marijuana to him for distribution in Pike County and the surrounding area.

Investigating agents subsequently learned that the 400 pounds seized on October 17, 2004 was to be delivered to Walls. Canez was the supplier from Mexico. Canez had recruited Carranza to travel with him to Ohio to assist in the delivery of the marijuana to Walls. May was recruited by his brother to help with unloading the shipment. The four were on their way to property owned by Walls’ family to offload the shipment when law enforcement agents stopped them.