OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[almond]

I just want to bump this and note some things I noticed in Jody Barr’s video which makes me believe that these murders didn’t take that much planning.

The drive from DR’s house on JBarr’s video is about 2 minutes 3 seconds. It starts at about 6:04 and he arrives at the end of CR1’s driveway at 8:07. The drive was done in daylight but someone familiar with the road very well could have made that same drive (either way/to/from) in the same amount of time.

JBarr walked from the bed of CR1’s driveway to in front of FR’s house, where the porch still sits. That walk started at 10:59 and ended at 11:49 into that video. 50 seconds, give or take.

In under 3 minutes, JBarr drove from DR’s, was at the end of CR1’s driveway and walked in a fast pace to FR’s.

My point is many believe this had to be some detailed plan but it didn’t have to be. If someone knew their schedules and knew where they lived, it’s my guess that this crime was pulled off in a very short amount of time.

This post took me about 2-3 minutes to type and I don’t know who has driven by my house or what’s going on outside right now. Just like all of the neighbors were probably in bed asleep and didn’t see any cars or people. It’s easy to miss things happening outside, especially at night. JMHO

Sounds to me like they definitely knew the R's!

 

[almond]

Relators Merit Brief in the Columbus Dispatch v Pike County Coroners Supreme Court case.

Very interesting read. It may be buried in one of the threads already, but for anyone who hasn’t read it, it’s worth all 50+pages

http://www.dispatch.com/assets/pdf/OH28858327.PDF

I feel like I'm in law school just reading the table of contents, Mitten. I understand not wanting to show your hand (LE) but this is a bit much.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I feel like I'm in law school just reading the table of contents, Mitten. I understand not wanting to show your hand (LE) but this is a bit much.

As you read further, some of the contradicting statements made to the public are pointed out as well. It has some interesting context for sure.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I have a hard time seeing it being about the derby, however, when I list things that all of the family members have in common, Demo Derby hits up there pretty high on the list. The whole family seemed to love the derbies. I'd forgotten til I re-read your 2nd link, that HHG and FR, had two derby cars. HHG had her own car. KR2 spoke, in another article, about memories of playing nearby while her father worked on derby cars. They all got into it. Derbying isn't exactly what I'd call a cheap hobby, either, but they did most all their own work, and used parts from the junked out cars on the place, I'd guess. It's getting hard to find the old heavy vehicles, and parts, too.

Some of those derby’s pay pretty well. The Lucasville Derby in May 2014 had an $8000 total payout.

 

[RichP]

My point is many believe this had to be some detailed plan but it didn’t have to be. If someone knew their schedules and knew where they lived, it’s my guess that this crime was pulled off in a very short amount of time.

This post took me about 2-3 minutes to type and I don’t know who has driven by my house or what’s going on outside right now. Just like all of the neighbors were probably in bed asleep and didn’t see any cars or people. It’s easy to miss things happening outside, especially at night. JMHO

I agree that it was done in a short amount of time. The only fly in the ointment was at CRsr's. For some reason they had trouble there. I believe that is why he was shot so many times. They did it just to put him down. With that many bullet wounds it sure would have looked as if he'd had the cr*p beaten out of him. BJM could have easily made that mistaken observation.

I disagree that there wasn't a detailed, meticulous plan. A plan that included but wasn't limited to: number of participants [I think probably three], the victim's schedules, vehicles to use, clothing to wear, weapons to use and weapons to have as back ups, perhaps suppressors for said weapons, site policing to take as much as possible evidence with them, camera and/or HDD confiscation, weapon and evidence and clothing disposal sites as near as possible, etc..

IMHO there is no way that a 22 year old JW or any of his family would have come up with such a plan.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I have a hard time seeing it being about the derby, however, when I list things that all of the family members have in common, Demo Derby hits up there pretty high on the list. The whole family seemed to love the derbies. I'd forgotten til I re-read your 2nd link, that HHG and FR, had two derby cars. HHG had her own car. KR2 spoke, in another article, about memories of playing nearby while her father worked on derby cars. They all got into it. Derbying isn't exactly what I'd call a cheap hobby, either, but they did most all their own work, and used parts from the junked out cars on the place, I'd guess. It's getting hard to find the old heavy vehicles, and parts, too.

Back in the 70's when I was in my teens and early 20's my BIL raced what was called stock cars then. I am not sure what they are called now but they were cars they built and raced on dirt tracks. His dad and uncle had also raced them in the 40's and 50's through early 60's.

I remember my older sister dragging me to those things every weekend. For the life of me I could not see what the attraction was but she was ready to go every time, maybe just to be there if her husband was injured. IDK but I do remember the mad rush to get everything ready to go, getting the car ready and loaded in time. Then there was the long tedious trip to the race track sometimes through thunderstorms and tornadoes. Too many times we sat in the stands in the hot sun, with the noise from the cars and fans, the constant nausea from the fumes of gasoline and exhausts with no mufflers. I also remember the fights that broke out among the drivers and their pit crews with fists, clubs and even guns being pulled over some imagined or real bump out on the track. At times there were almost riots in the pits and stands because one driver hit another and knocked them out of the race.

I absolutely hated those races, but couldn't bring myself to hurt her feelings by telling her how stupid I thought they were.

It all ended for me one night when a driver was running across the track before a race started and a car that was stuck in the mud suddenly broke loose and hit the driver, killing him. Sitting in the stands looking down on a man with his legs cut off drawing his last breath was it for me. I pleaded homework or housework and stayed home and babysat the small children after that.

The point is I can see it being about derby races. My sister's entire circle of friends consisted of other drivers and their wives. When a fight would break out in the pits it was often one group of friends against another group. Sometimes it would be 20 guys against another group of 20 or 30. Feuds were born from nothing more than one driver cutting off another one in the race. Something akin to road rage now which we all know can lead to someone killing another driver. And those feuds lasted years sometimes.

So yes if the R's were as deeply involved as they are said to be, then I am sure they have been in more than a few of those race track fights and feuds.

One other thing to remember is that the W's were also involved in derby racing. Compounded with the custody dispute it is entirely possible an extreme hatred was born that led to the murder of an entire family.

JMO

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I agree that it was done in a short amount of time. The only fly in the ointment was at CRsr's. For some reason they had trouble there. I believe that is why he was shot so many times. They did it just to put him down. With that many bullet wounds it sure would have looked as if he'd had the cr*p beaten out of him. BJM could have easily made that mistaken observation.

I disagree that there wasn't a detailed, meticulous plan. A plan that included but wasn't limited to: number of participants [I think probably three], the victim's schedules, vehicles to use, clothing to wear, weapons to use and weapons to have as back ups, perhaps suppressors for said weapons, site policing to take as much as possible evidence with them, camera and/or HDD confiscation, weapon and evidence and clothing disposal sites as near as possible, etc..

IMHO there is no way that a 22 year old JW or any of his family would have come up with such a plan.

In your opinion, how long do you think this took to plan? I tend to lean towards it wouldn’t have taken a long time to plan as long as one person involved knew the victims pretty well. If the triggerman (men/women) or even an accessory was around this family in the last month of their lives, I just feel like they would’ve had time to figure out Dana’s house in that time. Trailers have simple floor plans, but the additions would’ve made it a little trickier IMO. They definitely had to plan, but I wholeheartedly believe the planning was made easier because of their relationship with the victims, whatever it may be.

In regards to CR1, I’ve never taken the being beat statement with much basis. As you said, he probably would have looked like he’d been beat with as many bullets fired into his body. I also feel skepticism about the coroners statement that some victims had bruising. She never elaborated if those bruises were pre or postmortem and a bullet entering the skin also causes bruising.

You stated you think there were 3 perpetrators, do you think there was one outside each house on UHR and each house was ambushed? Or 2 perps on UHR while one went to LFR? I’ve considered both scenarios, I’ve just never decided what one I think “fits”.

I don’t know how JW fits into anything. I cannot understand two things when it comes to the W’s- 1)the laser focus statement made several times w/their photos on news outlets world wide. That’s a very brazen thing of an AG to do if someone is innocent because now they’re names are forever tarnished 2) why haven’t the W’s given a public interview w/a lawyer telling the AG to stop the slander while also proclaiming their innocence? Maybe the W’s are smoke and mirrors to the public, idk.

 

[Becky Starkey]

I’m confused. Who’s saying or thinks the Manley’s killed the Rhoden’s? I think I missed something somewhere.

PS hi everyone! I didn’t know ws was back up and moving again. That was quick.

No one ever does or has beyond general sleuthing that is allowed or it would have been and would be deleted. For some reason we have to keep having this conversation every other page.

 

[Becky Starkey]

I am thinking that KR was killed because the killers knew he had keys to the other homes. I am wondering if LE looked for or knew about any keys and if that is what they are basing their opinion that the killers knew this family well.

Usually one trusted person in a family is given spare keys to homes in case of an emergency or to feed the pet. I know my older sister had keys to everyone else's homes in case we were gone somewhere and needed something from the house or needed our pets fed.

Although BJM knew where the spare key was kept at CR1's she wasn't specifically given one and she apparently did not have one to FR or DR's house or know where one was kept.

It just seems like CR1 would have trusted KR more that anyone else or at least that is the impression I get from interviews with family members. I do not think he would have given keys to LM or JM either.

I have been thinking a lot on family vacations lately and whether the R's took such excursions. We know they often attended the demo derbies together. But did they go to other places as a group, like camping or hunting or to state parks ect? Trips to Disneyland to take the kids or someplace like that?

JMO

They did take at least one vaca to Florida, I think maybe more. That one was paid for by a certain businessman they did business with. I've seen the pics, but I don't recall where. Too much info overload in this case and so much has been deleted and "corrected".

 

[MittenScarpetta]

No one ever does or has beyond general sleuthing that is allowed or it would have been and would be deleted. For some reason we have to keep having this conversation every other page.

I agree. There’s only so much to work with since LE has never given much info. We don’t even have a general profile of who could have did this. We only have what they’ve put out there and it seems the most info out there is about JM or the W’s, next to family interviews.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

They did take at least one vaca to Florida, I think maybe more. That one was paid for by a certain businessman they did business with. I've seen the pics, but I don't recall where. Too much info overload in this case and so much has been deleted and "corrected".

That’s good to know. I’m glad they at least got to enjoy vacations in their short time here on earth. Ya know, when this broke on the news that day, I went to all of their profiles later that night/the next day. I came up with one name of the victims, just from comments on news articles and went from there. I wish now I had taken screenshots cause I never would’ve imagined their social media would’ve been altered the way it was in the weeks to come. I guess I just assumed that the case would have been solved fairly quick.

 

[Becky Starkey]

That’s good to know. I’m glad they at least got to enjoy vacations in their short time here on earth. Ya know, when this broke on the news that day, I went to all of their profiles later that night/the next day. I came up with one name of the victims, just from comments on news articles and went from there. I wish now I had taken screenshots cause I never would’ve imagined their social media would’ve been altered the way it was in the weeks to come. I guess I just assumed that the case would have been solved fairly quick.

Yes, me too. I take screenshots now. There is a lot I've lost. I just never imagined LE keeping such a tight lid on this. And I thought they knew who did it pretty quick and there would be an arrest. I think most people did. Just part of the craziness of this case. And the Rhodens did look very happy in those pics.

 

[rsd1200]

I just want to bump this and note some things I noticed in Jody Barr’s video which makes me believe that these murders didn’t take that much planning.

The drive from DR’s house on JBarr’s video is about 2 minutes 3 seconds. It starts at about 6:04 and he arrives at the end of CR1’s driveway at 8:07. The drive was done in daylight but someone familiar with the road very well could have made that same drive (either way/to/from) in the same amount of time.

JBarr walked from the bed of CR1’s driveway to in front of FR’s house, where the porch still sits. That walk started at 10:59 and ended at 11:49 into that video. 50 seconds, give or take.

In under 3 minutes, JBarr drove from DR’s, was at the end of CR1’s driveway and walked in a fast pace to FR’s.

My point is many believe this had to be some detailed plan but it didn’t have to be. If someone knew their schedules and knew where they lived, it’s my guess that this crime was pulled off in a very short amount of time.

This post took me about 2-3 minutes to type and I don’t know who has driven by my house or what’s going on outside right now. Just like all of the neighbors were probably in bed asleep and didn’t see any cars or people. It’s easy to miss things happening outside, especially at night. JMHO

I agree. I think that it was well planned, and well thought through, and that night was chosen (full moon, that night), and someone had knowledge of when folks were in their homes, but that it was done relatively quickly. I've wondered if they killed KR first, and the cash strewn about, was where they emptied his pockets,looking for his keys.

It's almost a full moon tonight, it was full on 4/21/2016 too, which could have been a help.

 

[rsd1200]

Do you know who has been charged with the murders in Martin?
My first thought was always that GR brought the trouble with him. As far as the Wag family, I think they know something and they lied about it. They might even be the witnesses that LE is waiting on?

This is him. LW. He says he's the fall guy. I don't know. I'd heard another fella killed them, but, this guy, from what I gather, emailed his gf from prison, stating he was there and couldn't save them. (I think that was in my other link)

UPDATE: Man charged in connection with triple murder in Martin County, Ky.

 

[Dudly]

Back in the 70's when I was in my teens and early 20's my BIL raced what was called stock cars then. I am not sure what they are called now but they were cars they built and raced on dirt tracks. His dad and uncle had also raced them in the 40's and 50's through early 60's.

I remember my older sister dragging me to those things every weekend. For the life of me I could not see what the attraction was but she was ready to go every time, maybe just to be there if her husband was injured. IDK but I do remember the mad rush to get everything ready to go, getting the car ready and loaded in time. Then there was the long tedious trip to the race track sometimes through thunderstorms and tornadoes. Too many times we sat in the stands in the hot sun, with the noise from the cars and fans, the constant nausea from the fumes of gasoline and exhausts with no mufflers. I also remember the fights that broke out among the drivers and their pit crews with fists, clubs and even guns being pulled over some imagined or real bump out on the track. At times there were almost riots in the pits and stands because one driver hit another and knocked them out of the race.

I absolutely hated those races, but couldn't bring myself to hurt her feelings by telling her how stupid I thought they were.

It all ended for me one night when a driver was running across the track before a race started and a car that was stuck in the mud suddenly broke loose and hit the driver, killing him. Sitting in the stands looking down on a man with his legs cut off drawing his last breath was it for me. I pleaded homework or housework and stayed home and babysat the small children after that.

The point is I can see it being about derby races. My sister's entire circle of friends consisted of other drivers and their wives. When a fight would break out in the pits it was often one group of friends against another group. Sometimes it would be 20 guys against another group of 20 or 30. Feuds were born from nothing more than one driver cutting off another one in the race. Something akin to road rage now which we all know can lead to someone killing another driver. And those feuds lasted years sometimes.

So yes if the R's were as deeply involved as they are said to be, then I am sure they have been in more than a few of those race track fights and feuds.

One other thing to remember is that the W's were also involved in derby racing. Compounded with the custody dispute it is entirely possible an extreme hatred was born that led to the murder of an entire family.

JMO

They used to say people went to Shadybowl Race Track to watch the fights and races would break out. There are some real hot heats involved in racing and Demo Derbies. Many do hold a grudge...

 

[Dudly]

This shows how bad it is getting...

Mussels off the coast of Seattle test positive for opioids

 

[molly1255]

I agree, Mitten. I don't think it involved an incredibly detailed plan, or any kind of genius to pull this off. I think it took someone who was beyond angry with the R's and someone who knew the properties very well. I also think the dogs knew at least one of the killers. I think LE has circumstantial evidence, but they lack physical evidence and that is why there have been no arrests. I also think the explanation of why KR was killed may have been to get keys, or that he knew something that would identify the killers. Perhaps both.

I am of the opinion that LE's big show of searching the W properties and calling them out last year was done with the intention of trying to get one or more of them to crack and start talking. It didn't work and ever since then, there has been no news other than LE remains focused on the W's.

Junk said something to the effect that he could explain everything in short order. My interpretation of this is that the explanation for all of this is really quite simple. I think the responsible parties are hunters who are experienced in stalking and killing their prey. I also think the killers justified the murders as being part of a righteous cause.

I'm still with LE on this one.

 

[molly1255]

I feel like I'm in law school just reading the table of contents, Mitten. I understand not wanting to show your hand (LE) but this is a bit much.

This is a very interesting read. DeWine and Reader said the victims were shot while they were asleep. We know this is not true for several of the victims (CR Sr, GR and likely CR Jr.) and perhaps others. Both DeWine and Reader had been to the scenes, so they knew not all of the victims were asleep.

When I read the redacted final autopsy reports, I couldn't help but wonder if the redacted areas contained information about other injuries inflicted on the victims before they were shot.

Like you said, LE doesn't want to show their hand, but this is a bit much. I'm hopeful we one day find out why this misinformation occurred and I hope the only reason for it is connected to finding the killers.

 

[pearl]

off-topic
Can someone tell me how to change the number of posts viewed on a page using the new software? I've looked and can't find it. TIS

 

[MittenScarpetta]

off-topic
Can someone tell me how to change the number of posts viewed on a page using the new software? I've looked and can't find it. TIS

The # of posts per page can’t be changed and is the same for everyone