OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) #32

[MittenScarpetta]

You know Betty brought up that they have DNA. And the AG mentioned it to. If they had the Manley's or the W's, they would have arrested them by now. I don't agree with professional killers, unless RRL and her husband was involved, I guess if your part of a bad motorcycle club, you could be considered professional, maybe? I think there were plenty of nasty people around who had it in for the Rhoden's and had their own reasons for wanting them dead. Pay off could have been drugs/mj that was there, or money and valuables that CRsr and KR would have had or just plain old revenge of some kind. It has been assumed that the Rhoden's could have been robbed.
The W's had just sold that property, I don't know how long property stays in escrow. They were selling off a lot of their things, down to the animals. They could have sold the property on a land contract which is popular around there. JW had to put up a go-fund-me page to help with costs about custody of Sophia. And they would have his DNA from the tests he did to determine if little K was his. So who's DNA was found? I think DR, CRsr, GR, HHG, and FR could have put up a fight and had the killers DNA under their fingernails.
I don't know if the elders would have let JW's family have the money to hire professionals, would they want to risk their reputations on a murder for hire?

The go fund me page never sat well with me, for a couple reasons. First, when a custodial parent of a child dies, there isn’t much of fight to be had for the non custodial parent to gain custody. Second, JW already had visitation and rights to S, therefore he was never an incompetent noncustodial parent who had to fight. Also, a lawyer is not needed to gain custody when the other parent passes away. It’s literally the process of filing of paperwork and fees to do so within the court system. The only way there would have been a fight was if the noncustodial parent was unfit to be a parent and another party fought him for custody.

As for the paternity test of K, that wouldn’t have cost JW anything. From my understanding, K was placed with child services when HR was murdered, until paternity could be established. Once paternity was established, the process began for getting K into the care and custody of the appropriate guardian. The paternity tests would have fallen at the expense of the state and they’re done one at a time. For example, we don’t know if CG was first tested for paternity. If he was tested first, no one else would have been tested because paternity was established. Then, CG became responsible for his paternity test costs. The state would have sent him a bill. The other 2-if they were tested-would not have been charged by the state because they were not the fathers.

Let’s also not forget, JW now gets a monthly SS check for S because her mother is dead. He will receive that until she is 18 years old...much like HR would have gotten child support for S, if she wouldn’t have been murdered.

In other words, IMO, the go fund me was unnecessary and I don’t believe the funds were used for what JW originally set the go fund me up for. Just my thoughts.

 

[amauet1]

The go fund me page never sat well with me, for a couple reasons. First, when a custodial parent of a child dies, there isn’t much of fight to be had for the non custodial parent to gain custody. Second, JW already had visitation and rights to S, therefore he was never an incompetent noncustodial parent who had to fight. Also, a lawyer is not needed to gain custody when the other parent passes away. It’s literally the process of filing of paperwork and fees to do so within the court system. The only way there would have been a fight was if the noncustodial parent was unfit to be a parent and another party fought him for custody.

As for the paternity test of K, that wouldn’t have cost JW anything. From my understanding, K was placed with child services when HR was murdered, until paternity could be established. Once paternity was established, the process began for getting K into the care and custody of the appropriate guardian. The paternity tests would have fallen at the expense of the state and they’re done one at a time. For example, we don’t know if CG was first tested for paternity. If he was tested first, no one else would have been tested because paternity was established. Then, CG became responsible for his paternity test costs. The state would have sent him a bill. The other 2-if they were tested-would not have been charged by the state because they were not the fathers.

Let’s also not forget, JW now gets a monthly SS check for S because her mother is dead. He will receive that until she is 18 years old...much like HR would have gotten child support for S, if she wouldn’t have been murdered.

In other words, IMO, the go fund me was unnecessary and I don’t believe the funds were used for what JW originally set the go fund me up for. Just my thoughts.

Agree and you've proved my point. IMO, the W's didn't have enough money to pay a "professional hit. Playing more devils advocate, JW didn't have a criminal background except for misdemeanors. With a clean record he would have gotten custody for little S easily. So why was Crjr, FR, HHG, GR, and KR killed? They didn't have anything to do with the custody of little S. But then again why haven't the W's or their powerful family sued the state/county for slander? That lawyer of theirs seems very smart and aggressive on their part. Same with JM and the text, if there wasn't something in the text, LM would have been shouting to the world about that. They also have a lawyer now. So there must be connections in both these families to the murders. JMO, but family protects family, that kind of trust in each other is pretty tight. So to me , a bunch of random bad guys could have killed this family, but wouldn't be able to trust each other with keeping something this big a secret. They would brag about it to someone. JMO

 

[amauet1]

Just thought of something, I guess you can take CG off the list of possible killers to. They have his DNA from his test to determine little K's paternity. I don't know who the third person could be, beause she (HMR) was already pregant when she started dating CH.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Agree and you've proved my point. IMO, the W's didn't have enough money to pay a "professional hit. Playing more devils advocate, JW didn't have a criminal background except for misdemeanors. With a clean record he would have gotten custody for little S easily. So why was Crjr, FR, HHG, GR, and KR killed? They didn't have anything to do with the custody of little S. But then again why haven't the W's or their powerful family sued the state/county for slander? That lawyer of theirs seems very smart and aggressive on their part. Same with JM and the text, if there wasn't something in the text, LM would have been shouting to the world about that. They also have a lawyer now. So there must be connections in both these families to the murders. JMO, but family protects family, that kind of trust in each other is pretty tight. So to me , a bunch of random bad guys could have killed this family, but wouldn't be able to trust each other with keeping something this big a secret. They would brag about it to someone. JMO

I agree. Personally, if I was in the W’s shoes and I was innocent with nothing to hide , I’d sue until i couldn’t sue anymore. I’d also have my lawyer send cease and desist letters to all agencies mentioning my name in a negative, misleading light. If I was innocent. On another aspect, I’d also be rallying and screaming from the rooftops for justice for the murdered family of my child/grandchild.

IMO, there is a connection to both families to the murders, just as you said. What that connection is, I don’t know, but something hasn’t been and isn’t right. I do think custody of S may have been an added factor for the motive, but it was not the main driving force. It was more like an added “bonus*-JW now doesn’t pay child support, collects a SS check, was able to move 4000+ miles away, and he’s got his daughter all to himself. I also tend to believe KR only fits into the equation if both families were involved, instead of If just the W’s were involved. And of course, my thoughts on both families being involved is just hypothetical and jmo.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Just thought of something, I guess you can take CG off the list of possible killers to. They have his DNA from his test to determine little K's paternity. I don't know who the third person could be, beause she (HMR) was already pregant when she started dating CH.

CH could have still been the 3rd possibility though. Even though they didn’t start dating until after she was pregnant, that doesn’t mean they didn’t know each other or hadn’t had encounters with each other. Idk, I’m just saying he’s still on my list for the 3rd unknown possible father.

And yes, I’d agree that CG is off that list of possible killers. Not only because his DNA is on file for paternity, but also because HHG was also his sister, Her baby found between her and FR was CG’s nephew..I just don’t see a young kid doing something so vicious and well planned and getting away with it.

 

[Dudly]

The thought has crossed my mind that BJM lied about what time she found the bodies. I think she stalled long enough to call LM to maybe take something from the homes that she or he wanted.

Like I say it just crossed my mind at times and in no way am I saying LM is the killer. My entire sympathy is with him, his wife, GR and HHG's parents. I just think it is why LE because suspicious of her from the beginning.

JMO

I have always thought the same thing about DS at KR's property....

 

[Dudly]

I’m trying to find a way to search that vin listed on the arrest warrant to see if there’s possibly a vehicle ownership history. There’s gotta be a way to track down who’s name that truck was in before it went into JM’a name along with dates etc.

I do not think there is a way to search vehicle VINs and previous owners. I think it has to do with privacy laws...

 

[Betty P]

I have always thought the same thing about DS at KR's property....

Regarding BJM calling her father after finding the bodies, LM told the news media early on that she called him after finding them. He said he alerted JM. They decided JM would go check on DR while LM would go to CR1's. So it wasn't information they were trying to hide. Check video of LM'S first or second interview from the first day.

As for LE having at least one of the killer's DNA, recall any of the locals who have been arrested on felony charges since the murders has also had their DNA checked.

 

[Dudly]

CH could have still been the 3rd possibility though. Even though they didn’t start dating until after she was pregnant, that doesn’t mean they didn’t know each other or hadn’t had encounters with each other. Idk, I’m just saying he’s still on my list for the 3rd unknown possible father.

And yes, I’d agree that CG is off that list of possible killers. Not only because his DNA is on file for paternity, but also because HHG was also his sister, Her baby found between her and FR was CG’s nephew..I just don’t see a young kid doing something so vicious and well planned and getting away with it.

Does that include JW, then also not doing something so vicious because he is a young kid?

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Does that include JW, then also not doing something so vicious because he is a young kid?

It would in my mind if JW had a blood relative that was murdered with her fiancé while JW’s 6 month nephew was laying between the two. But JW didn’t have any blood relatives killed that night. CG did. CG’s newborn daughter was also laying next to her dead mother. JW’s child was safe and out of harms ways.

My point is CG had a lot more loss and trauma from these murders than JW did. JW didn’t lose one family member that night. CG did. CG also had the lives of his daughter and nephew, both infants, endangered that night. CG also doesn’t have the motive to not only kill the mother of his child and her entire family but to kill his own sister too. He’s not on my radar and never has been.

 

[rsd1200]

Does that include JW, then also not doing something so vicious because he is a young kid?

CH would also be considered young. Most young people cannot keep secrets like this. They have to tell someone, eventually.

 

[rsd1200]

It would in my mind if JW had a blood relative that was murdered with her fiancé while JW’s 6 month nephew was laying between the two. But JW didn’t have any blood relatives killed that night. CG did. CG’s newborn daughter was also laying next to her dead mother. JW’s child was safe and out of harms ways.

My point is CG had a lot more loss and trauma from these murders than JW did. JW didn’t lose one family member that night. CG did. CG also had the lives of his daughter and nephew, both infants, endangered that night. CG also doesn’t have the motive to not only kill the mother of his child and her entire family but to kill his own sister too. He’s not on my radar and never has been.

But, JW didn't know for sure that HMR's newborn was not his child. Two days prior, to her birth, he's setting up the crib at DR's home. That does not seem like animosity between them.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

But, JW didn't know for sure that HMR's newborn was not his child. Two days prior, to her birth, he's setting up the crib at DR's home. That does not seem like animosity between them.

You’re right and I agree there doesn’t seem like there was animosity between, if we only look at his statements. However there are also the things that contradict his statements. CG’s cover photo that has been the same since 10/2015. LM’s statements about custody of S. JW’s statements (paraphrasing) about wanting S to know her sister and be around her-then moving 4000+ miles away from. IMO, HMR had a very strong idea and feeling CG was K’s father. I believe HHG knew that as well. And there’s also so much info unknown because anyone who could contradict and say differently about JW or anyone’s statements, is dead and can’t speak.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The only reason I struggle with this is why Kenneth though? And why leave LM unharmed-the one who’s given more info than LE has. It doesn’t make sense or fit that KR was murdered 7 ish miles away. IMO, LM would have been more of a threat to the W’s than KR was when theorizing that custody was the motive. Don’t get me wrong, I’m thankful that no one else was harmed and LM wasn’t murdered along with his 8 family members. I just don’t understand KR’s murder. His murder is and has been, since the beginning, one of the oddest pieces to this puzzle.

I too struggled with that for a while. But then I wondered if HR may have been especially close to him as maybe her favorite uncle. Or maybe KR knew something that would incriminate JW, like a specific threat he made toward HR in KR's presence.

Jmo

 

[rsd1200]

You’re right and I agree there doesn’t seem like there was animosity between, if we only look at his statements. However there are also the things that contradict his statements. CG’s cover photo that has been the same since 10/2015. LM’s statements about custody of S. JW’s statements (paraphrasing) about wanting S to know her sister and be around her-then moving 4000+ miles away from. IMO, HMR had a very strong idea and feeling CG was K’s father. I believe HHG knew that as well. And there’s also so much info unknown because anyone who could contradict and say differently about JW or anyone’s statements, is dead and can’t speak.

Maybe she did feel it was CG, however, if they had been together since May of 2015, and were breaking up, then she turns to JW in a rebound (which it seems she did), and JW's putting up a crib for K, two days before the birth, he's showing up at the hospital, and sticks around for the dna results, then it appears that in JW's thinking, that it was at least, "a 50/50 chance", that she was his. CG putting that up there on his FB, before he knew, is more of a statement, to me, because CG didn't come around and put the baby crib up, and he didn't show up at the hospital when she was born, he didn't show up at DR's, after HMR came home, to see, nor hold, the baby, either. Why not? If he's so sure? Maybe their breakup wasn't pleasant?

June, 2016

CG, 21, has never held K. But he aches to, he said. He's seen pictures of her. "Have you seen her photo? She looks just like me,'' he beamed. "Don't you think?" He, too, has hired a lawyer. And just like JW, he is awaiting the material needed to have his DNA tested to establish paternity.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Maybe she did feel it was CG, however, if they had been together since May of 2015, and were breaking up, then she turns to JW in a rebound (which it seems she did), and JW's putting up a crib for K, two days before the birth, he's showing up at the hospital, and sticks around for the dna results, then it appears that in JW's thinking, that it was at least, "a 50/50 chance", that she was his. CG putting that up there on his FB, before he knew, is more of a statement, to me, because CG didn't come around and put the baby crib up, and he didn't show up at the hospital when she was born, he didn't show up at DR's, after HMR came home, to see, nor hold, the baby, either. Why not? If he's so sure? Maybe their breakup wasn't pleasant?

June, 2016



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

What kind of statement do you believe that to be by CG (the cover photo)? Honest question because I’m intrigued by your interpretation Also, I dont know if it’s that CG didn’t show up at the hospital or at Dana’s once HMR came home by his own choice OR if CG wasn’t asked or allowed to come to the hospital/Dana’s. Again, there’s so much we don’t know that it’s impossible to know why things like not going to the hospital happened.

I agree she did turn to JW as a rebound but it looks like she still had communication with CG at least until October because he had her ultrasound pic.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I too struggled with that for a while. But then I wondered if HR may have been especially close to him as maybe her favorite uncle. Or maybe KR knew something that would incriminate JW, like a specific threat he made toward HR in KR's presence.

Jmo

Very possible that HR could’ve been very close to her uncle, especially considering we do know HR was very close with his daughter KR2.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

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If according to LM in the WCPO news a few weeks before the mass murders the elder Wagner and JW were both pressuring HR to give up her parental rights to SW.

That almost hints at they thought she was unfit. (My opinion). If the custodybattle centered on proving to the courts that HR was an unfit mother it was down right ugly.The accusations must have fixed some sort of scenario that there were illegal substances in SW inviroment.(my therory) I have no knowledge of what charges were levied but they had to be of an unsavory nature. :cow:
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Where have I been? Perhaps my reading comprehension has deteriorated.I had not read that investigators considered a Manley a witness in the murders.

That’s what the article says. But that’s not what the GPS warrants say and LE has never stated that (to my knowledge).

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Maybe she did feel it was CG, however, if they had been together since May of 2015, and were breaking up, then she turns to JW in a rebound (which it seems she did), and JW's putting up a crib for K, two days before the birth, he's showing up at the hospital, and sticks around for the dna results, then it appears that in JW's thinking, that it was at least, "a 50/50 chance", that she was his. CG putting that up there on his FB, before he knew, is more of a statement, to me, because CG didn't come around and put the baby crib up, and he didn't show up at the hospital when she was born, he didn't show up at DR's, after HMR came home, to see, nor hold, the baby, either. Why not? If he's so sure? Maybe their breakup wasn't pleasant?

June, 2016



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

May I also add, yes, from what we know JW, put the crib together 2 days prior. But we also know that he and his family didn’t attend the funerals. That also speaks volumes.

I guess my point is, IMO JW says one thing but his actions have said differently at times.

 

[MizStery]

I deleted my post you are absolutely correct. Those charges were later dropped. That was later noted. I apologize when I read the paragraph I was taken aback because that wasn't discussed. The reporter must have gotten that from some source of hers and of course it was dropped later according to the news website.
:cow:

That’s what the article says. But that’s not what the GPS warrants say and LE has never stated that (to my knowledge).

This is from my previous post

<snip>
Two days prior, to her birth, he's setting up the crib at DR's home. That does not seem like animosity between them.

Two to three weeks before the murders, Jake and his father tried to get Hanna to sign away her parental rights to Sophie, according to Leonard Manley, Hanna's grandfather.
http://local12.com/news/local/questions-remain...
https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/aut...on-on-4-in-pike-county-massacre-investigation

If according to LM in the WCPO news a few weeks before the mass murders the elder Wagner and JW were both pressuring HR to give up her parental rights to SW.

That almost hints at they thought she was unfit. (My opinion). If the custodybattle centered on proving to the courts that HR was an unfit mother it was down right ugly.The accusations must have fixed some sort of scenario that there were illegal substances in SW inviroment.(my theory) I have no knowledge of what charges were levied but they had to be of an unsavory nature. :cow:
[QUOTE=MittenScarpetta;14084572]LM&#8217;s statements about custody of S. JW&#8217;s statements (paraphrasing) about wanting S to know her sister and be around her-then moving 4000+ miles away from. IMO, HMR had a very strong idea and feeling CG was K&#8217;s father. I believe HHG knew that as well. And there&#8217;s also so much info unknown because anyone who could contradict and say differently about JW or anyone&#8217;s statements, is dead and can&#8217;t speak.[/QUOTE]