OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #35 *Arrests*

[rsd1200]

I agree, the timing of the killings so soon after the birth of HMR's baby seems deliberate. I think it was probably noted by LE when investigating the crime, and strengthened the theory that the whole massacre was centered on HMR.

I don't know anything about paternity testing in Ohio, could JW have forced HMR to get a paternity test on her baby? My sense is, likely not. Note that paternity tests can be done on unborn babies, and she refused to do that and just left the father's name off the birth certificate. She likely didn't want to share custody with whomever was the father, and had probably been assured by her family that she wouldn't need child support.

The W's might have been determined not to miss out on a moment of this child's life if she was, in fact, JWs. In fact, they were facing the likelihood that they might never have any contact with 'their' child at all. The conflict between HMR/JW and therefore the families could have been as much centred on paternity testing this baby, as on custody of SW, since they began planning the massacre when HMR was about 4 months pregnant, ie around the time JW may have learned of it.

I'm not so sure that he even thought the baby was his, but, they did possibly draw the line at killing infants who could not speak nor identify them (dogs would fit here too). So far, he's the only one who has said that there was a chance the baby was his, and he's the only one left alive who would know that for sure. Did she send JW an ultrasound pic? I've never seen him post one. CG still had his copy posted at last check. I mean, really, he could tell LE; How could the potential father, of a newborn, murder his child(ren)'s Momma, in cold blood, while that newborn slept beside her Momma?!

I've a feeling that if anyone will fold, it will be JW, who folds first.

 

[rsd1200]

Does anyone remember when Dana & family (chris jr hanna) moved into her home. ?

One month, prior to the murders. I think it was 3/21/2016.

 

[Seattle1]

Suspect in killings of daughter's mother and family sought custody just 6 days after the murders

The body of 19-year-old Hanna Rhoden was found shot twice in the head. She was lying in her bed next to her youngest daughter, Kylie, who had been born just five days earlier, and who was unharmed.

A paternity test later showed that Wagner was not the father of the infant.

 

[Ellmau]

Well well well!
Am I reading this right???
All the way to the bottom...look who is at the Pike County Jail!!??

Currently Housed Inmates

Look who ISN'T there. All of them are there apart from Fredericka, who we know is out on bail, and one of the Georges, not clear which. Of course, it may be dad who hasn't yet been returned to Ohio.

 

[Seattle1]

Pike County: Wagner family matriarch posts bond in Rhoden massacre case, court records say

Fredericka Wagner, who faces perjury and obstruction of justice charges in what's been described as the largest homicide investigation in Ohio history, has posted bond, according to court records....

 

[Seattle1]

Mike Schell‏ @Fox19_Mike
Pike County prosecutor, Rob Junk says the Franklin Co. Courts “made some type of mistake” and Jake Wagner never should have been on their docket today. Wagner is one of 4 accused in the Rhoden murders. He is being held in Columbus but must be arraigned in Pike Co. @fox19

10:01 AM - 16 Nov 2018

 

[Ellmau]

I just cannot wrap my mind around 4 first time killers being able to stomach all the killing and what goes with it, not once but four times.

JMO

I imagine some kind of folie a quatre, where they worked each other up and egged each other on over an extended period until they felt individually none of them could back out.

 

[rsd1200]

I would like to center the focus of everyone on here on the "how" emotionally this was done. We know the W's are hunters and well used to killing animals but we are assuming that none of the W's have killed a human being before. With that assumption in mind, how did they go from house to house, looking into the faces and in some cases eyes of human beings and pull the trigger? How did they disassociate themselves from the horror of what they were doing? Did they keep a perception in mind that these were just "big game" animals to be hunted as trophies?

I think it is that house to house thing that more than anything spotlights how gruesome this crime was. There had to be tons of blood. How did they get past the smell of all that blood and go on to the next house? Did anyone get sick at the smell and beg off at the next house? Also CR1 being more decomposed means they had to have spent some time waiting for GR. When someone is killed it is not a pretty thing. Most people release their bladder and bowels at death. Did anyone of the four feel sickened by what they were doing?

I am not familiar with Meth or other hard drugs so I am not really sure of the effects of any such drug, if indeed they took any drugs, would have on being able to carry this through. Maybe someone else on here has that knowledge.

Also the R's were close friends at one time. Along with that friendship would come the intimacy of shared hopes and dreams for the future. As Clint Eastwood put it so well " When you kill a man you take away everything he is and everything he hopes to be." Did the W's look into the faces of the victims and feel sorrow for what they were taking from them? Compassion for those dreams being destroyed?

Lastly who on here thinks it may be possible this was not the first humans that some of the W's have killed. Because if this was their first time killing a human then they would have been quite naive as to the reality of actually watching and being responsible for a person dying. Killing 8 people your first time out would have been a rough way to start on a killing career.

Also there had to be a time lapse between houses, especially KR and the others. Did anyone of these 4 sit in the car on the ride to kill another person and think "Maybe this is wrong?"

I just cannot wrap my mind around 4 first time killers being able to stomach all the killing and what goes with it, not once but four times.

JMO

Meth, would allow them the speed, and alertness, and can amp up feelings. Idk if they used it or not, but soldiers have even used meth and other stimulants have long been known to enhance combat performance, keeping personnel awake, alert, and hence alive after prolonged periods of fatigue. Intoxicants also “take the edge off” war, enabling soldiers to cope with the traumas of the battlefield.

Combat High – A Brief But Sobering History of Drug Use in Wartime - MilitaryHistoryNow.com

I'm not saying that they did, but, I'm curious if one of the local unsolved murders, may have been practice. It would have just looked like drugs gone bad, which is what they may have been hoping for the Rs and HHG. They had to know they had the grows. I don't know that we'd have even known about the grows, if DS had not done the interview, with the media, and they knew it was coming out via his interview. That could be why he showed few R and M friends on his FB later on. Just speculation on my part.

 

[Seattle1]

Mike Schell‏ @Fox19_Mike
VIDEO: 76 year old Fredericka Wagner arrives at the Pike County courthouse for her arraignment at 2pm. Wagner charged with obstructing justice and perjury in the Rhoden family murder case. @FOX19

10:28 AM - 15 Nov 2018

Video at link

 

[Seattle1]

Pike County murders: Court docs reveal custody battle at heart of killings

Comparing her father’s indictment and custody documents he filed a week after the killings provides new insight into the charges against Edward “Jake” Wagner and how the custody battle unfolded that prosecutors said was central to the deaths of eight people.

New court documents obtained by daytondailynews.com show Wagner applied for custody of his daughter, Sophia May, on April 28, 2016, just six days after investigators say he, his brother and their parents killed eight members of the Rhoden family.

 

[RickshawFan]

There was some kind of error regarding JW yesterday in court

Pike County massacre: Hearing canceled for Wagner son

I wonder if it was a drug withdrawal that caused the delay. Maybe he had to be medically supervised and/or went berserk during detox?From the photo in that article (as someone mentioned upthread), Jake is a meth addict. The symptom is scabs on the face.
Jake might not have been in any condition for a court appearance. He also might be in a locked facility that offers appropriate treatment for detoxing, which may not be available in Pike County Jail.
He might be doped up, either because of a detoxing process or because he'd become out of control and has had to be straight-jacketed and sedated.
I dunno if jails detox incoming inmates, but I'm guessing they do.
Could a court do the arraignment from a detox facility, though?

I wonder what else Jake is on? Or was on at the time of arrest?

 

[RickshawFan]

Does anyone have any thoughts about what the schedule of the murders was, who was killed when and by whom, whether they were killed simultaneously, or all 4 went to each site...?

I'm new to this crime/thread, and not familiar with that line of discussion.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Meth, would allow them the speed, and alertness, and can amp up feelings. Idk if they used it or not, but soldiers have even used meth and other stimulants have long been known to enhance combat performance, keeping personnel awake, alert, and hence alive after prolonged periods of fatigue. Intoxicants also “take the edge off” war, enabling soldiers to cope with the traumas of the battlefield.

Combat High – A Brief But Sobering History of Drug Use in Wartime - MilitaryHistoryNow.com

I'm not saying that they did, but, I'm curious if one of the local unsolved murders, may have been practice. It would have just looked like drugs gone bad, which is what they may have been hoping for the Rs and HHG. They had to know they had the grows. I don't know that we'd have even known about the grows, if DS had not done the interview, with the media, and they knew it was coming out via his interview. That could be why he showed few R and M friends on his FB later on. Just speculation on my part.

BBM

That is starting to become my thoughts too. I realize these people ran a farm which requires the killing of animals from time to time and also avid hunters with all that entails but killing a human is much different than killing an animal. For one thing when you kill an animal the animal usually doesn't know what is coming. An animal is not able to plead for their life either. Plus there is just something sickening about the sight and smell of vast amounts of blood.

For some reason I don't think this was their first rodeo.

I hope BCI and PCSO is looking into other unsolved murders and the W's connections, if any, to them.

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

There was a fire at FW's that killed her horse(s), correct? Could it have been caused by an exploding meth lab? Meth manufacturing might explain why there seems to be so much money attached to that farm.

 

[chigger]

I would like to center the focus of everyone on here on the "how" emotionally this was done. We know the W's are hunters and well used to killing animals but we are assuming that none of the W's have killed a human being before. With that assumption in mind, how did they go from house to house, looking into the faces and in some cases eyes of human beings and pull the trigger? How did they disassociate themselves from the horror of what they were doing? Did they keep a perception in mind that these were just "big game" animals to be hunted as trophies?

I think it is that house to house thing that more than anything spotlights how gruesome this crime was. There had to be tons of blood. How did they get past the smell of all that blood and go on to the next house? Did anyone get sick at the smell and beg off at the next house? Also CR1 being more decomposed means they had to have spent some time waiting for GR. When someone is killed it is not a pretty thing. Most people release their bladder and bowels at death. Did anyone of the four feel sickened by what they were doing?

I am not familiar with Meth or other hard drugs so I am not really sure of the effects of any such drug, if indeed they took any drugs, would have on being able to carry this through. Maybe someone else on here has that knowledge.

Also the R's were close friends at one time. Along with that friendship would come the intimacy of shared hopes and dreams for the future. As Clint Eastwood put it so well " When you kill a man you take away everything he is and everything he hopes to be." Did the W's look into the faces of the victims and feel sorrow for what they were taking from them? Compassion for those dreams being destroyed?

Lastly who on here thinks it may be possible this was not the first humans that some of the W's have killed. Because if this was their first time killing a human then they would have been quite naive as to the reality of actually watching and being responsible for a person dying. Killing 8 people your first time out would have been a rough way to start on a killing career.

Also there had to be a time lapse between houses, especially KR and the others. Did anyone of these 4 sit in the car on the ride to kill another person and think "Maybe this is wrong?"

I just cannot wrap my mind around 4 first time killers being able to stomach all the killing and what goes with it, not once but four times.

JMO

I think each W had their own personal kill site. Big Daddy took on CR, AW was at Dana's home, little GW at Frankie's and Baby Boy at KR's.

 

[cds0902]

I agree, the timing of the killings so soon after the birth of HMR's baby seems deliberate. I think it was probably noted by LE when investigating the crime, and strengthened the theory that the whole massacre was centered on HMR.

I don't know anything about paternity testing in Ohio, could JW have forced HMR to get a paternity test on her baby? My sense is, likely not. Note that paternity tests can be done on unborn babies, and she refused to do that and just left the father's name off the birth certificate. She likely didn't want to share custody with whomever was the father, and had probably been assured by her family that she wouldn't need child support.

The W's might have been determined not to miss out on a moment of this child's life if she was, in fact, JWs. In fact, they were facing the likelihood that they might never have any contact with 'their' child at all. The conflict between HMR/JW and therefore the families could have been as much centred on paternity testing this baby, as on custody of SW, since they began planning the massacre when HMR was about 4 months pregnant, ie around the time JW may have learned of it.

I don't think JW could have forced HMR for paternity testing. My son had a horrible accident that left him with traumatic brain injury, he has two children, the mother of the children walked out of the hospital after two weeks. I fought and won visitation, But, I was a little unsure about the paternity of his second child, so, I ordered a paternity swab kit. I swabbed him and her, sent it off and it came back like 99% she was his!! Now this test will not hold up in a court of law because it was not secured and "potentially" someone could have messed with it. But it was enough to satisfy my curiosity. I know normally the first thing an Ohio court will do is seek paternity testing, rather than find out down the road that the person doesn't have any rights to the child. I can understand leaving the fathers name off the BC if you don't know who the father is, and if they tested in vitro wouldn't all possible fathers have to be swabbed as well? For me I see JW's mom all about these little baby girls, most guys would not go to the extremes JW has gone to w/o someone prodding him along.

 

[rigsby2]

BBM

That is starting to become my thoughts too. I realize these people ran a farm which requires the killing of animals from time to time and also avid hunters with all that entails but killing a human is much different than killing an animal. For one thing when you kill an animal the animal usually doesn't know what is coming. An animal is not able to plead for their life either. Plus there is just something sickening about the sight and smell of vast amounts of blood.

For some reason I don't think this was their first rodeo.

I hope BCI and PCSO is looking into other unsolved murders and the W's connections, if any, to them.

JMO

I agree, I have a hard time believing you go from zero human kills to a methodical 8 murders. And possibly someone in the past who appeared to die of 'natural causes' or accidental death?

And to have killed this family as they slept exposes the Wagners as not just evil, but ultimately despicable cowards.

 

[cds0902]

I wonder who stayed with little S and the little boy while the killings were taking place,someone had to have been watching them.

Maybe the grannies!

 

[rsd1200]

I wonder who stayed with little S and the little boy while the killings were taking place,someone had to have been watching them.

I'm guessing they were visiting with their great-grandparent(s).

 

[pepper 34]

Does anyone remember when Dana & family (chris jr hanna) moved into her home. ?

Wasn't it just one month before the murders? Yes, I'm pretty sure about that.