OH - Plea for corruption investigation in Ohio to Dept of Justice

[Widow]

...heart pounding now... I have tried to be sure to post only statements that I have a legal document to back up as fact. I cannot recall ever making a statement such as "I feel XX has murdered" but rather "XX is alleged to have murdered and we have possession of eyewitness statements". But I am sensing there is something I have written on this website which I should be incredibly concerned with, something in particular that you are warning me about.

I will immediately peruse every post I have made these last months on every website and apply all you have told me. I can see that I can really go no further alone and must have legal advice for the rest of this journey.

May I be the first to admit that I am guilty of dumb mistakes on a semi-regular basis - despite having been raised to think twice and then look at everything from a 3rd-eye view before acting or saying anything.

I have certainly had to extensively research areas of the law to get this far, I can see it is time to learn about libel and make sure I have not commited a crime of my own.

You are incredibly helpful, and "thank you from the bottom of my heart" seems shamefully inadequate.

 

[mysteriew]

I am re-thinking our efforts of a class-action allegation of wrongdoing to the Dept. of Justice.

I wonder if there is any possibility of a class action lawsuit against any authorities in question by the parties with complaints?

That would get it into the court system. And since some of the officials are also in the court system that could mean that it would have to be heard in another county.

BTW, is your attorney living and practicing within Preble county? I also live in a rural county. And I have noticed a difference between using attorneys from outside the county. (connections ya know)

 

[Widow]

Years ago the Citizen's Task Force began a class action wrongdoing case in federal court. They actually took the case quite far, but authorities repeatedly were able to explain away situations "in the line of duty" and whatnot, and then the onslaught of the the press finally irritated the judge enough for him to put an end to things. Smokesbiggestfan can tell us much more about that effort.

I need to attain an attorney and be advised on going forward with a civil suit without the benefit of an investigation by DOJ.

I originally sought an attorney that could practice in federal court in the state that I currently live in. After he looked over my information, he advised me to contact an attorney in Ohio right away. I have other issues which need to be addressed locally and more immediately, and have established contact with an attorney located within Preble County who is well aware of the alleged corruption and has even experienced it first hand. Our situation is too incredible, it is difficult to impress upon anyone outside the county the magnitude of corruption and the dire circumstances that still remain.

 

[mysteriew]

Have you tried individual wrongful death suits? False arrest suits? Several filed at once or in quick sequence should present a splash.

 

[smokesbiggestfan]

Have you tried individual wrongful death suits? False arrest suits? Several filed at once or in quick sequence should present a splash

This is what I did in 1992-1993. I filed several cases one right after another. They all got combined because I was able to allege a conspiracy to deprive me of my rights. The case proceeded and the media got involved. One thing I found out judges and magistrates do not like tv cameras in their face! This essentially pissed them off. One enough to recuse and the magistrate to become agitated and take it out on me. He did not want to see they were acting with malice and what they had done was beyond the stipulation of the color of law. He did buy my RICO argument however.

I alleged class action. I had documentation from numerous others with substantiated documents of proof, including pictures of an elderly woman that was abused by civil servants while others who are sworn and have a duty to act did nothing.

I do not want to get into my case except to say it took me six years to resolve and I pounded them with motions and suits. Thankfully my entire family recovered from their nightmare and are in a better place now than then because we learned from the nightmare. I can't say that for many others who have been victimized. It will not bring Clayton, Dave (Snooze),Donnie or Melinda back.

From the time I moved to Preble County all I heard was how corrupt it was from my former husband's family, former classmates at Eaton High School and community members. My former father-in-law said it had been that way since he moved there from Hamilton,Ohio in the 40's! So we are talking well over 60 years of corruption left unchecked.

 

[Wudge]

...heart pounding now... I have tried to be sure to post only statements that I have a legal document to back up as fact. I cannot recall ever making a statement such as "I feel XX has murdered" but rather "XX is alleged to have murdered and we have possession of eyewitness statements". But I am sensing there is something I have written on this website which I should be incredibly concerned with, something in particular that you are warning me about.

I will immediately peruse every post I have made these last months on every website and apply all you have told me. I can see that I can really go no further alone and must have legal advice for the rest of this journey.

May I be the first to admit that I am guilty of dumb mistakes on a semi-regular basis - despite having been raised to think twice and then look at everything from a 3rd-eye view before acting or saying anything.

I have certainly had to extensively research areas of the law to get this far, I can see it is time to learn about libel and make sure I have not commited a crime of my own.

You are incredibly helpful, and "thank you from the bottom of my heart" seems shamefully inadequate.

Widow, again, what I say here is not meant to be legal advice, nor is it intended to be legal advice.

I read but a few of your posts. I saw that you exposed this subject online, which means it is exposed to the world. As such, prudent writing requires knowledgable caution, for hordes of defamation/libel cases have been spawned because of internet postings.

In a defamation/libel/slander lawsuit, the defendant must prove what was said and/or written is true. The burden of proof is on the defendant. And no matter how clear a statement might be in the mind of the writer/speaker, proving it to be "true" in a court of law can be extremely difficult.

There are many falsehoods and/or traps in this area that unaware/uniformed people buy into or fall into. A few such examples are: quoting others (like supposed eyewitnesses) or repeating what others have said (or allegedly have said) is not safe harbor. Repeating rumors is not safe harbor. Drawing unverifiable conclusions from facts that that while basic are not dispositive is not safe harbor. Etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Net, my thoughts in this post and prior posts are simply based on the thought that it would be wise for you to have or acquire a well informed background in this area of the law.

(my posts here represent an effort to be helpful, nothing more)

 

[Widow]

I have received devastating news from DOJ. They have concluded there are is no prosecutable violation of federal criminal rights statutes. They sent back hundreds of pages of court documents and witness statements, and none appear to have ever been looked at. I introduced my additional information in a timeline form, and now that I look at it I can see it is confusing and does not directly list allegations. I wish I had known I could have had a legal entity assist me with it!

There is no appeal process. The online DOJ investigator's manual says most people who receive a denial just go away and don't bother DOJ anymore, but if someone requests an appeal that the department issuing the denial should take a look at it. I will consult with an attorney and get assistance writing an appeal.

I am reading up on slander/libel (thank you, Wudge!). I cannot fathom that my husband can be murdered and I have to beg for investigation, but the perpetrators can sue me for saying things that make them look bad. Kinda reminds me of an inmate that escaped from a local prison, then sued the State because he was injured on the barbed wire fence he jumped. Why can "they" seek justice for incriminating things said about them, but I have lost an entire life with my partner, my children have lost their right to have their father in their life, I have lost a lifetime of income to maintain a home and care for our family...and I now have to worry about retaliation and possibly losing my life or my children's as so many in that county have. I have eyewitnesses that were unknown at the time of investigation of these cases, I have sworn statements of attempted deals for false testimony...I have the entire cases ready for someone to read, no investigation required.

I am rambling and in the depths of depression and trying not to just give up and live in further fear for the rest of my life. I have greatly angered authorities for bringing the situation in the county to public attention, and I fear the future, whether I continue looking for help or just give up.

I am so grateful to everyone who has contributed advice and well wishes, thank you!

 

[Widow]

Wudge, you are too kind. I have concluded that just because I have eyewitness statements to a fact, it must still be proven in court before I may publicly state that fact without facing libel/slander charges. Your advice stays with me now always, and I am editing old posts.

I may possibly delete all threads in all forums, I am undecided if I should continue this fight or give up and have to get in a better frame of mind before making such a big decision. There are a lot of people counting on me who are within Preble County and cannot have their voice heard for fear of retaliation, but I just feel as if DOJ was my last hope.

Thank you so much for your encouragement and steering me in the best direction, Wudge, I will never forget you for your kindness.

 

[Wudge]

I have received devastating news from DOJ. They have concluded there are is no prosecutable violation of federal criminal rights statutes. They sent back hundreds of pages of court documents and witness statements, and none appear to have ever been looked at. I introduced my additional information in a timeline form, and now that I look at it I can see it is confusing and does not directly list allegations. I wish I had known I could have had a legal entity assist me with it!

There is no appeal process. The online DOJ investigator's manual says most people who receive a denial just go away and don't bother DOJ anymore, but if someone requests an appeal that the department issuing the denial should take a look at it. I will consult with an attorney and get assistance writing an appeal.

I am reading up on slander/libel (thank you, Wudge!). I cannot fathom that my husband can be murdered and I have to beg for investigation, but the perpetrators can sue me for saying things that make them look bad. Kinda reminds me of an inmate that escaped from a local prison, then sued the State because he was injured on the barbed wire fence he jumped. Why can "they" seek justice for incriminating things said about them, but I have lost an entire life with my partner, my children have lost their right to have their father in their life, I have lost a lifetime of income to maintain a home and care for our family...and I now have to worry about retaliation and possibly losing my life or my children's as so many in that county have. I have eyewitnesses that were unknown at the time of investigation of these cases, I have sworn statements of attempted deals for false testimony...I have the entire cases ready for someone to read, no investigation required.

I am rambling and in the depths of depression and trying not to just give up and live in further fear for the rest of my life. I have greatly angered authorities for bringing the situation in the county to public attention, and I fear the future, whether I continue looking for help or just give up.

I am so grateful to everyone who has contributed advice and well wishes, thank you!

God bless you. I know you are tortured by all that has happened.

I can't undo what was done. I only wished to possibly prevent a future hardship that could have been avoided.

When a domino befalls people, it is wise to try and prevent others dominos from similarly falling. Suffering a horrible ending is different than suffering horrors without end.

 

[Widow]

I know you are right, and thank you for the emotional support as well. Truly, though, this IS horrors without end. Citizens were retaliated upon for having knowledge of wrongdoing in my case and for asking questions about the investigation, I feel so many have suffered trying to help me. I should not have felt sorry for myself and moaned about what I have lost, others have lost as much and more. Crying too hard to type or think, I should not be writing because I could really get myself in some trouble now. Thank you also for talking me through my misery, and for the companionship in this hell, Wudge.

 

[STEADFAST]

In a defamation/libel/slander lawsuit, the defendant must prove what was said and/or written is true. The burden of proof is on the defendant. And no matter how clear a statement might be in the mind of the writer/speaker, proving it to be "true" in a court of law can be extremely difficult.

http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/libel-and-slander



Actually, you are probably protected, as long as you believe your allegations to be true or likely true if you have made them against government employees or prominent figures. Our libel laws differ greatly from those of Canada or most European countries.


"the First Amendment rights of free speech and expression outweigh the public official's rights unless the public official can prove that the defendant acted with actual MALICE. Actual malice means that the defendant who communicates a defamatory statement does so knowing that the statement is false or very likely false. The defendant need not harbor ill will toward the plaintiff for the public official to recover in an action for slander or libel; the public official need only prove that the defendant knew that the defamatory statement was false or had serious doubts as to its truth."

Be sure to see an attorney. You do have the right to speak out.

 

[Widow]

A very good link, thank you for sharing that, Steadfast. I encourage everyone to read it, it is written in conversational format rather than legalese...it is the easiest to understand for an average citizen more than any other information on libel/slander I have seen since I started researching.

There is much information that I have not publicly shared because I do not have documentation to back it up. I truly have not written anything that I did not absolutely believe to be fact and backed by documentation. But Wudge is right, I do not want to make this horror even more horrible and I must step carefully.

I have been a bit worried about the "malice" aspect. Certainly I want the persons responsible for wrongdoing to pay for the harm they have caused, but I do not wish to add to what they have done with fake allegations...what they have done is bad enough. I long ago had to rid myself of the driving hate I felt, I did not like the person I became. I now almost grieve for the perpetrators loved ones because if they are ever caught and truly pay for the things they have done, their lives will change forever.

I have been reading about allegations against public officials and really had myself scared. Your direct statement makes me feel much better and I promise I will research this more thoroughly.

Thank you!

 

[Wudge]

http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/libel-and-slander



Actually, you are probably protected, as long as you believe your allegations to be true or likely true if you have made them against government employees or prominent figures. Our libel laws differ greatly from those of Canada or most European countries.


"the First Amendment rights of free speech and expression outweigh the public official's rights unless the public official can prove that the defendant acted with actual MALICE. Actual malice means that the defendant who communicates a defamatory statement does so knowing that the statement is false or very likely false. The defendant need not harbor ill will toward the plaintiff for the public official to recover in an action for slander or libel; the public official need only prove that the defendant knew that the defamatory statement was false or had serious doubts as to its truth."

Be sure to see an attorney. You do have the right to speak out.

Freedom of speech is a Constitutional right. Notwithstanding that truth, you can be sued or imprisoned for what you say. Trying yelling fire in a crowded theatre, mentioning "bomb" at an airport, etc..

In a defamation lawsuit, truth is a perfect defense. But a defendant must prove what they said or wrote was true. As for a person believing that what they might say or write about a public official (or celebrity) will not cost them as long as they truly think that what they said or wrote was true, ask Dominic Dunn how he fared against Gary Condit's defamation lawsuit (re:the Chandra Levy case).

Simply put, unless a person is itching for a battle in a court of law, it is not wise to knowingly risk a defamation of character lawsuit.

 

[Widow]

Well, I know that the authorities I have submitted a complaint against are itching for a battle in court if they can catch me on anything, so I am going to proceed with caution and make sure I am legal.

That's twice I have seen the Dunn/Condit reference (sometimes I need to be told twice to get it to sink in), so I am going to go read up on it right now.

Thanks so much to everyone who is guiding me down the right path...I lose my way so easily!

 

[CaliKid]

Yes, Widow, whatever you do don't get yourself in trouble.

 

[STEADFAST]

Freedom of speech is a Constitutional right. Notwithstanding that truth, you can be sued or imprisoned for what you say. Trying yelling fire in a crowded theatre, mentioning "bomb" at an airport, etc..

In a defamation lawsuit, truth is a perfect defense. But a defendant must prove what they said or wrote was true. As for a person believing that what they might say or write about a public official (or celebrity) will not cost them as long as they truly think that what they said or wrote was true, ask Dominic Dunn how he fared against Gary Condit's defamation lawsuit (re:the Chandra Levy case).

Simply put, unless a person is itching for a battle in a court of law, it is not wise to knowingly risk a defamation of character lawsuit.

Dunn settled with Condit, but Condit just lost a defamation suit that went before a judge against the Sonoran News because he couldn't prove malice. It just plain isn't correct that defendants in libel suits against public officials have to prove that what they said was true. They don't. All they have to do is convince a judge or jury that they did not know that it was false.

Risking a lawsuit may not be wise, unless the alternative is living under a reign of intimidation and bullying.

 

[Widow]

I have been reading a lot about libel suits. Condit and his wife filed libel suit after suit and made a healthy income from them...most were settled out of court without going through the whole trial, which I was disappointed to see because I would have liked to have read about how burden of proof was met.

The Ramseys filed a civil libel and defamation lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Atlanta in March 2001, alleging that Thomas made false accusations about the couple in a book he co-authored and in television interviews promoting the book, titled “JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation.” In the book, Thomas theorized that Patsy Ramsey killed her daughter in a fit of rage and then tried to make the death look like a botched kidnapping. Thomas accused John Ramsey of participating in the cover-up.

http://www.timescall.com/ramsey/storyDetail02.asp?ID=23
Well, there is another word in libel cases - "theorize". This case was an $80 million suit and was also settled out of court.

I would think journalists would have libel in the back of their mind always when creating their writings. I would think more cases would go to trial rather than settle. Either defendents are realizing they did not have the proof to back up what they are saying or attorneys are encouraging settlements without trial believing it would be cheaper to settle than to present their side in court.

This suit arose from comments made by Tom Brokaw on NBC Nightly News. Brokaw said, "The speculation is that the FBI is close to making the case. They probably have enough to arrest him right now, probably enough to prosecute him, but you always want to have enough to convict him as well. There are still some holes in this case." NBC stood by their story, but later agreed to a reported settlement of $500,000 in December 1997. They issued a statement saying they agreed on the settlement to protect confidential sources.

http://medialibel.org/cases-conflicts/tv/jewell.html
Richard Jewell brought many libel suits, as well. Again, many settlements. Even CNN paid a settlement, but released a statement that they believe their report was accurate.

Something good that came out of this reading, though, is that I beleve authorities may have come close to libeling the survivors of the triple homicide victims in a few new articles. If I had known more about libel laws 20 years ago, I certainly would have had an attorney look over their questionable statements in the press.

 

[Wudge]

Dunn settled with Condit, but Condit just lost a defamation suit that went before a judge against the Sonoran News because he couldn't prove malice. It just plain isn't correct that defendants in libel suits against public officials have to prove that what they said was true. They don't. All they have to do is convince a judge or jury that they did not know that it was false.

Risking a lawsuit may not be wise, unless the alternative is living under a reign of intimidation and bullying.

The opposite of "false" is "true". And willful blindness as well as lack of due diligence or failure to investigate or failure to know what should have been known etc., are not legal excuses.

Moreover, I think it is flat out wrong to give others false comfort or, in any way or manner, encourage them to risk a defamation lawsuit. This is even more true for people who are emotionally caught up in a situation. Emotions are the root cause of many, many defamation lawsuits.

If you want to knowingly risk your own lawsuit, fine. But watch what you say to others. First, "do no harm" applies to more than doctors.

 

[Widow]

I think it is flat out wrong to give others false comfort or, in any way or manner, encourage them to risk a defamation lawsuit.

SO true...the recent advice to watch carefully for libel is some of the best advice I have received in all these years of searching for help. Encouragement is often received to keep telling my story until that one person hears me that can help me find justice, but never has anyone cautioned me about libel...and I am sure if I were to find myself in court facing a libel suit that I would also find myself quite alone.

When it comes down to the actual battle, formerly interested persons disappear faster than the evidence in our cases.

 

[smokesbiggestfan]

Widow don't give up just be cautious.When I had my allegations against PC the reporters who covered checked it all out before going with it on air. They throughly checked it out. Perhaps you should contact the television station that carried the piece and they also carried a piece on the triple? It was WHIO-TV in Dayton. Sure I peeved them off sending the media in. I'm the one that called the reporter and told him about the triple. The media outlets such as television usually verify and verify their sources before going on air. Just a thought but the anniversary coming up and all it might do well to get the media outlets involved again.

They can't hurt me or my family anymore. It would be too hard for them to come after me now! I'm out of that hell hole! Personally the best advice I can give anyone who is being persecuted by those people is to MOVE AWAY! Worked for me. For that be glad you never made it to live there. There is such a cloud over that county and has been for 60 years or more. I often felt that the citizen's who didn't care just didn't care because they were all medicated. Good old Prozac! They even had my 8 year old on it when she was in CSB care. Ooops....guess they didn't read the literature on anti-depressants and children! I raised hell, gave them the reasoning why an 8 year old should not be on it and they discontinued. Then they tried Mellaril and made a stink on that one too. Funny as soon as she got out of there she no longer needed psychotropic meds. That is their way of control and you know that too because of your husband's mother! The former community mental health center got in trouble over a lot of things, my kids being one, to the point they lost their Title 20 funds. They billed Medicaid for everything at CSB and the counseling center! They were making all kinds of money off of Medicaid. That is one reason so many community mental health agencies as well as Children's Services have been made to change--Medicaid figured it out! They were paying for transportation for case workers to run kids all over the place--that doesn't happen anymore. The stipulations today are much different than in the 80's to mid 90's and then now they've really tightened it up.