OH - Tamir Rice, 12, with pellet gun, fatally shot by Cleveland LEO, Wrongful Death suit, Nov 2014

[al66pine]

Driving up within feet of the boy and jumping out of the cruiser are not exactly the best means by which the cops might have protected themselves, IMO.

Watching the video, there are no other people anywhere around, no imminent danger. There were multiple options available to the cops in that cruiser to approach with greater caution, allowing time for the child to comprehend and follow through on what it was that they wanted him to do--without placing themselves, or the public, in danger.

Did the vid you saw show footage of man phoning 911, w 911 audio played over it?
Ppl, oblivious to gun's existence, walked within a few feet of Rice, as he stood on sidewalk.
That's one vid I saw was 3-5 min or longer (sorry no link ATM), not vid just showing LE car slide to a stop.
Not a vid where cam was zoomed in to crop out potential victims, other ppl in area.

bbm
Approach more slowly? If so, then how far away should they have stopped? How many feet?
Far away enough from Rice, that his gun's bullets could not reach, injure, kill LEOs?

What about the other ppl walking by? Ppl who walked within a few feet of Rice?
What if Rice shot and injured some of those ppl, maybe killed some, as LEOs approached slowly,
refusing to put themselves in danger when other members of the public apparently were?

Besides approaching slowly, keeping safe distance, what other options did LEOs have in re Rice?
Anyone? Thx in adv.

 

[shadowraiths]

Aformentioned study: The Essence of Innocence: Consequences of Dehumanizing Black Children

Abstract: The social category “children” defines a group of individuals who are perceived to be distinct, with essential characteristics including innocence and the need for protection (Haslam, Rothschild, & Ernst, 2000). The present research examined whether Black boys are given the protections of childhood equally to their peers. We tested 3 hypotheses: (a) that Black boys are seen as less “childlike” than their White peers, (b) that the characteristics associated with childhood will be applied less when thinking specifically about Black boys relative to White boys, and (c) that these trends would be exacerbated in contexts where Black males are dehumanized by associating them (implicitly) with apes (Goff, Eberhardt, Williams, & Jackson, 2008). We expected, derivative of these 3 principal hypotheses, that individuals would perceive Black boys as being more responsible for their actions and as being more appropriate targets for police violence. We find support for these hypotheses across 4 studies using laboratory, field, and translational (mixed laboratory/field) methods. We find converging evidence that Black boys are seen as older and less innocent and that they prompt a less essential conception of childhood than do their White same-age peers. Further, our findings demonstrate that the Black/ape association predicted actual racial disparities in police violence toward children. These data represent the first attitude/behavior matching of its kind in a policing context. Taken together, this research suggests that dehumanization is a uniquely dangerous intergroup attitude, that intergroup perception of children is underexplored, and that both topics should be research priorities.​

 

[Margo/Mom]

Besides approaching slowly, keeping safe distance, what other options did LEOs have in re Rice?
Anyone? Thx in adv.

The critical error is that police did not allow themselves sufficient time to adequately assess the situation. The available video (which goes on for quite awhile before and after the police shooting) shows some people at one point, who move on their way, and then Tamir by himself in the shelter for another while before the police arrive. There is a large open space surrounding the shelter, making it possible to see that there were NOT people around--either as potential victims or adjunct threats. In the way that the officers handled the situation, had the boy had an actual gun, and a wish to shoot policemen, they made themselves very vulnerable to that threat--protecting no one.

Allowing a greater distance, perhaps using a megaphone and using the vehicle for cover would have allowed them to not only give the direction to "drop the weapon," but for it to be heard, understood and followed through on by the kid.

I am firmly convinced that even if they gave that command (which I tend to doubt, frankly) that there was insufficient time to register in the kid's consciousness that they were talking to him and what it was that they wanted him to do.

This was not good police work any way that you look at it. And blaming the outcome on the kid and his family is truly shoddy.

 

[MyBelle]

Did the vid you saw show footage of man phoning 911, w 911 audio played over it?
Ppl, oblivious to gun's existence, walked within a few feet of Rice, as he stood on sidewalk.
That's one vid I saw was 3-5 min or longer (sorry no link ATM), not vid just showing LE car slide to a stop.
Not a vid where cam was zoomed in to crop out potential victims, other ppl in area.

bbm
Approach more slowly? If so, then how far away should they have stopped? How many feet?
Far away enough from Rice, that his gun's bullets could not reach, injure, kill LEOs?

What about the other ppl walking by? Ppl who walked within a few feet of Rice?
What if Rice shot and injured some of those ppl, maybe killed some, as LEOs approached slowly,
refusing to put themselves in danger when other members of the public apparently were?

Besides approaching slowly, keeping safe distance, what other options did LEOs have in re Rice?
Anyone? Thx in adv.

Their duty was to protect themselves and the public from the threat they perceived. Their perception is all that matters.

JMO

 

[SilkySifaka]

Their duty was to protect themselves and the public from the threat they perceived. Their perception is all that matters.

JMO

actually it isn't if its a lie and a coverup

 

[MyBelle]

actually it isn't if its a lie and a coverup

yes, it is. There will be an investigation as to whether it was a justified shooting.

JMO

 

[shadowraiths]

USDOJ investigation of Cleveland Police Department: PDF

 

[shadowraiths]

As investigation enters fifth month, Tamir Rice’s mother has moved into a homeless shelter

In a court filing dated Monday, Rice’s family said they cannot agree to hold off on their lawsuit until the investigation is complete in part because they are worried that crucial evidence could be lost. In addition, they said, the elongated pace at which the investigation is moving is causing them sustained distress.

[...]

Rice’s mother, the motion goes on to state, has moved into a homeless shelter.

“In particular, Samaria Rice, Tamir Rice’s mother, has since been forced to move to a homeless shelter because she could no longer live next door to the killing field of her son,” the motion said.​

Washington Post

 

[shadowraiths]

Online activists raised $60K for Tamir Rice’s family — so where did all that money go?

Shaun King was furious.

[...]

So when a new court filing in the Rice family’s civil suit against the city of Cleveland revealed that Tamir has yet to be buried and that his mother was, at least temporarily, living in a homeless shelter, King was incensed.

“Absurd!” he insisted to me in a direct message on Monday afternoon, especially, he noted, because just months earlier an army of online samaritans had raised almost $60,000 for the Rice family.​

Washington Post

 

[MsFacetious]

171 days after Tamir Rice shooting, sheriff says investigation almost done

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/12/us/cleveland-tamir-rice-investigation-update/index.html

 

[al66pine]

Has MSM shown birdseye view of shooting site, w location of -
-Tamir, where he was walking back & forth,
- gazebo/pavilion/shelter where (one of) the 911 callers phoned from,
- facility across street w surv cam (a bus stop, light rail station, can't remember what)
- other places where ppl were at time of shooting
- other landmarks.

I do not recall seeing^. Anyone?

Some vid clips I've seen seem to be heavily edited,
don't seem to give a good perspective of how close other ppl were to Tamir
as he swung gun around.

 

[shadowraiths]

EXCLUSIVE: Tamir Rice's father speaks

CLEVELAND -- Tamir Rice's father, Leonard Warner, is speaking for the first time, exclusively with WKYC Channel 3.

Rice, 12, was shot and killed by Cleveland Police Officer. Timothy Loehmann in November of 2014 outside the Cudell Recreation Center. Rice held an airsoft gun. Police say the weapon was indistinguishable from a deadly firearm.

The officer opened fire within two seconds of pulling up to the scene.

Warner, who has been silent since the incident, says he had no idea his son had the airsoft gun.

[...]

Walter Madison, the Rice family attorney, says a 16-year-old neighbor boy gave Tamir the airsoft gun, while the teen charged a cell phone. Madison says Rice only had possession of the fake weapon for minutes.

[...]

John O'Brien, a spokesman with the Sheriff's Office, told Golston Wednesday they had no further updates in the case.​

link

 

[al66pine]

. CLEVELAND -- Tamir Rice's father, Leonard Warner ...silent since the incident, says he had no idea his son had the airsoft gun.
Walter Madison, the Rice family attorney, says a 16-year-old neighbor boy gave Tamir the airsoft gun, while the teen charged a cell phone. Madison says Rice only had possession of the fake weapon for minutes. link

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2015/05/27/tamir-rices-father-speaks/28053235/ sbm. 8 min vid interview w Tamir's father at end of article

Thanks shadowraiths for keeping us updated.

Sad, sad, sad interview w familiar questions. ~7min/10 sec.

Q: What suggestion do you have to keep this from happening again? (my paraphrase)
Father: If they have a toy gun or anything, put in away, get rid of it, throw in the garbage, don't play w them outside. (best I can interp & quote)

^This Q & A was not contained in 3 min vid before article.
Seems like most insightful stmt of interview. JM2cts.

 

[popsicle]

The investigation into the fatal police shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice in Cleveland was turned over Wednesday to prosecutors, who will ask a grand jury to decide whether criminal charges should be filed against the officer.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sheriff-sends-tamir-rice-shooting-report-prosecutor-n369406

 

[La Louve]

Their duty was to protect themselves and the public from the threat they perceived. Their perception is all that matters.

JMO

They seem to have missed the critical next step of assessing the perceived threat. Had they taken the time and the tactics to safely assess the threat, they most likely would've taken less lethal actions.

This shooting is almost the definition of "trigger-happy" IMO.

 

[al66pine]

They seem to have missed the critical next step of assessing the perceived threat. Had they taken the time and the tactics to safely assess the threat, they most likely would've taken less lethal actions.
This shooting is almost the definition of "trigger-happy" IMO.

911 caller says in multiple calls, guy is aiming at passers-by w gun (IIRC). In driving to site of reported gun-aiming, how should LEOs assess 'perceived threat?" How much time should LEOs allow? What tactics should LEOs use?

Drive up, park LE vehicle x? ft from guy w gun to safely assess? How many feet?
Then approach on foot, ask guy to hand gun to them, so LEOs could determine what kind of gun it is - 'real gun' or airsoft, BB, or replica gun?
Can LEOs 'safely assess' threat, before guy w gun relinquishes it, so they can examine?
What if guy w gun -
- relinquishes it, & as LEOs examine, guy pulls 2nd gun & shoots?
- relinquishes it, & as LEOs examine, other guy pulls gun & shoots?

While LEOs approach guy & ask for gun, if guy decides to spray lead, injuring or killing 1, 2, 5, or 10 'innocent bystanders' then have these LEO taken too long to assess the 'perceived' threat? Ditto, but what if no 'innocent bystanders' are injured or killed, but one or both LEOs responding are injured or killed?

How should LEOs assess 'perceived threat?" Specifically what? Pls explain.

I'm not saying action of these two officers was LE 'best practices.'
Trying to understand what other actions they could have taken to 'safely assess', in light of circumstances, which w/h/allowed LE to protect public & themselves?

Just wondering.

 

[La Louve]

They couldn't accurately assess the situation 'til they got there. Do you really believe they did assess the situation in those 2 seconds?

Clearly, since a child holding a toy gun was shot and killed, the officer's "perception" of the "threat" was wrong.

 

[Margo/Mom]

911 caller says in multiple calls, guy is aiming at passers-by w gun (IIRC). In driving to site of reported gun-aiming, how should LEOs assess 'perceived threat?" How much time should LEOs allow? What tactics should LEOs use?

Drive up, park LE vehicle x? ft from guy w gun to safely assess? How many feet?
Then approach on foot, ask guy to hand gun to them, so LEOs could determine what kind of gun it is - 'real gun' or airsoft, BB, or replica gun?
Can LEOs 'safely assess' threat, before guy w gun relinquishes it, so they can examine?
What if guy w gun -
- relinquishes it, & as LEOs examine, guy pulls 2nd gun & shoots?
- relinquishes it, & as LEOs examine, other guy pulls gun & shoots?

While LEOs approach guy & ask for gun, if guy decides to spray lead, injuring or killing 1, 2, 5, or 10 'innocent bystanders' then have these LEO taken too long to assess the 'perceived' threat? Ditto, but what if no 'innocent bystanders' are injured or killed, but one or both LEOs responding are injured or killed?

How should LEOs assess 'perceived threat?" Specifically what? Pls explain.

I'm not saying action of these two officers was LE 'best practices.'
Trying to understand what other actions they could have taken to 'safely assess', in light of circumstances, which w/h/allowed LE to protect public & themselves?

Just wondering.

I am not an expert on police protocols, but this is what I have seen in other situations: multiple officers, some with weapons drawn, approach/communicate from behind a barricade; from such positions of safety give orders to put weapon down, lie face down and place hands behind back. Arriving in a vehicle provides an immediate barrier. Multiple units might have served to prevent an escape to the rear. Communicating from behind a safety barrier allows sufficient time for the suspect to both hear and understand the commands being given (in order to determine if suspect is willing to be compliant).

In this case the officers drove to within feet of the suspect, exited the vehicle (most likely leaving the safety zone) while barking orders and immediately began firing. If the child even understood they were talking to HIM, it would have taken a moment to translate "weapon" to mean the toy gun, understand and comply. And he never had even that moment.

 

[al66pine]

They couldn't accurately assess the situation 'til they got there. Do you really believe they did assess the situation in those 2 seconds?
Clearly, since a child holding a toy gun was shot and killed, the officer's "perception" of the "threat" was wrong.

My earlier post asked for explanation about what actions LEOs should have taken.
Above post is not responsive, just re-states opinion concluding - LEOs' perception was wrong.

Repeating my question(s):
How should LEOs have assessed 'perceived threat? What actions should they h/taken?
Thx in adv.

 

[al66pine]

I am not an expert on police protocols, but this is what I have seen in other situations: multiple officers, some with weapons drawn, approach/communicate from behind a barricade; from such positions of safety give orders to put weapon down, lie face down and place hands behind back. Arriving in a vehicle provides an immediate barrier. Multiple units might have served to prevent an escape to the rear. Communicating from behind a safety barrier allows sufficient time for the suspect to both hear and understand the commands being given (in order to determine if suspect is willing to be compliant).

In this case the officers drove to within feet of the suspect, exited the vehicle (most likely leaving the safety zone) while barking orders and immediately began firing. If the child even understood they were talking to HIM, it would have taken a moment to translate "weapon" to mean the toy gun, understand and comply. And he never had even that moment.

Thanks for responding to questions in my earlier post - about what actions LEO s/h/taken to assess threat. The steps you suggest seem reasonable. Like you, I am not an expert on LE protocols.

From vid I've seen
- before LEOs arrive, ppl walk by guy w gun - within just a few ft of him.
- after LEOs arrive, imo, cam is zoomed in or vid is cropped to focus on smaller frame.
Wish we could see vid showing how close other ppl are when LEOs arrived, as vid gives impression that guy w gun is waaaaaay far away from other ppl and not endangering anyone.

How much time would elapse while LEOs were implementing those steps - waiting for other officers & vehicles to arrive? Wouls it h/bn 1 min, 5, 10 or more?
If, during that time, guy w gun had shot, injuring or killing one (non-LEO) person, is that acceptable outcome? 2, 3, 4, 5? What about one LEO? Or more?

Difficult situations, elusive answers. JM2cts,could be all wrong.