GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[CKay]

You know this trial will prolly be moved out of the area... too bad they can't move it to my area. I would gladly volunteer to sit on this trial. I would patiently give him his due process, and listen to his defense (whatever that would be), but I already know what my decision would be. :furious::furious::furious:

My true hope, really, is that he waives trial and pleas guilty. That would spare everyone. It happened in our town, where a man brutally murdered his wife- kids were at Grandma's. He then went, picked kids up, and they found their mother's body in her bedroom, stabbed repeatedly, on the floor. They were in shock and thought it was one of their dogs at first. The oldest locked herself in the bathroom and called 911. I shudder at what he might have done to the kids if she hadn't called 911. When it came time for a jury selection, he finally plead full guilt, and the kids were spared testifying. BTW- he was a lawyer, and rumor has it, was planning to use the "Prozac defense".

I have thought about "what if" I get called for Jury Duty, if it's here. Do I want to see the evidence (crime scene photos, and worse, the bodies?). Do I really want to hear the details of what he did to those people? So I don't know what I'd do if called. Could I honestly answer I don't know a lot of pre-trial details about the case? lol, I don't think so. And if I were to lie to get on (wouldn't happen, but hey), what if they found out I was a member here? It does show up in Google searches, first page. Mistrial? Verdict reversal? Ugg.

But that case in your town had that "typical suspect" aspect to it. Horrible as it was, isn't that the way it usually goes? Speaking of the panic in Knox County. My (delayed) panic only really happened *after* I heard it was not LM or GB. Had I known that before he was caught OMG. Because you can set the fear aside and think "well, it wasn't a stranger probably ... probably someone they knew" and there isn't that self danger aspect to it. So going back to Sheriff Barber's chosen wording, that's probably why.

I'm not sure if I were to be murdered, which would be worse though: stranger or someone who knew me/used to care about me etc.
hmmmm

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Here's what I think his attorney is doing.

Waiving the prelim (where evidence is presented to the court to determine if he'll be bound over for trial) keeps evidence out of public record & the atty doesn't have to show his hand at a defense yet.

Forcing an indictment by a GJ, which is a secret hearing, will keep whatever evidence the prosecutor has out of the public eye...especially if the GJ hearing transcripts remain sealed.

The defense attorney doesn't want the horrible truth about MH exposed right now.

That is exactly what he is doing. Joesph Duncan also waived his PH for the same reason. He and his attorney didn't want any of the detrimental and extremely damaging evidence to be publicly known before a trial was held but it didnt help him in the end and it isnt going to help Hoffman either, imo.

IMO

 

[CKay]

One random thought about the upcoming trial:

I know nothing of the sentencing practices of the municipal court Judge.

But once it's transferred to Knox County, and if it is the (one) sitting Judge there: he is a very tough, strict, no-nonsense Judge. As a former city girl (who is used to light sentences in more minor crimes), I've thought "wow", many times when reading the weekly sentencing report in the paper (Mt. Vernon News). I realize it might not be him (if it's a DP case?), but I'd expect NO bond whatsoever (even if it was "just" the kidnapping charge).

I realize I'm babbling now, which is a sign of my exhaustion. (hushing now)

 

[nursebeeme]

this is just moo... but I think deals are being made behind the scenes and I think that Hoffman's atty is no dummy in this instance since he did lead LE to the bodies.

in a lot of cases emergency GJ's will be convened BEFORE the PCH date in order to indict using that vehicle in order to keep case secrets case secrets....

this waiving of the PCH on Hoffman's end makes me wonder what his defense will be if he even has one.

could anyone else see him pleading guilty once the indictments are handed down? The only defense I see is one with 'mental' fascets.... this will be hard to prove...

has anyone looked back or dug up anything on his colorado case to see if he was ever evaluated mentally in that case? would be interesting to know

 

[Bratislava]

could anyone else see him pleading guilty once the indictments are handed down? The only defense I see is one with 'mental' fascets.... this will be hard to prove...

has anyone looked back or dug up anything on his colorado case to see if he was ever evaluated mentally in that case? would be interesting to know

Good thinking. Yup. I think resorting to psychological defenses in previous crimes or trials will be an important aspect of exactly what defense can be mounted. Honestly, the defense does not have much on their side given the hideous nature of the crime (and the fact that this tends to sway juries).

 

[Cazzie]

Smooth,

A mod came in here recently and said we are not to talk about what may have happened to Sarah.

I've gotten to the point that I'm not posting anymore about any of the gruesome, horrific details just because it's too much to take. I can only imagine how Sarah and the other family members of Tina and Stephanie feel...the friends, too, and the community. It's awful! But they are a strong, close, even closer now community.

 

[SmoothOperator]

OK...just as I was posting my above thoughts about SM not being the actual motive and my reasons for thinking she wasn't violated sexually..a couple of things that have been rolling around in my head just suddenly came together..

This may sound far fetched but I am trying to think out of the box...

What if it was not Sarah that MH was after AT ALL that day.. My mind goes back to the ex girlfriend saying she feared what he would do to her and her son..she feared even if pressing charges for his choking her that he may retaliate.. I am thinking more and more that MH had become deeply angry, resentful, and hating his girlfriend and the young son.. She really seemed to think it a real possibility that he would kill them..he had already killed their dogs..that to me says by that point he was angry and hating these two..

What if that day MH was killing Tina and Kody raging with hatred about girlfriend and young son{which happened to be near Kody's age}...Therefor separating Sarah, as she was not an intended victim...and SS as many of us believe came later with intentions on staying with the kids while Tina worked an evening shift...she wasn't an intended victim I believe most of us readily admit that she was at the wrong place at the wrong time..as sad and tragic as that is..I do feel its true...perhaps coming in right oin the middle of the rage{with Sarah already safely separated}

Then he's left with Sarah and doesn't know what to do..he truly sees her as an "innocent" in all of this.. This too would make sense as to the comment that MH made to his mom...That he was relieved that Sunday morning when SWAT busted in and rescued Sarah..He was relieved that she could go home..That would make sense with her not being an intended victim..

I know it sounds crazy, but we are talking about the mind of a crazy man..Am just attempting to look at all possibilities because SM as the motive is not adding up for me...

 

[Cazzie]

This may sound far fetched but I am trying to think out of the box...

What if it was not Sarah that MH was after AT ALL that day.. My mind goes back to the ex girlfriend saying she feared what he would do to her and her son..she feared even if pressing charges for his choking her that he may retaliate.. I am thinking more and more that MH had become deeply angry, resentful, and hating his girlfriend and the young son.. She really seemed to think it a real possibility that he would kill them..he had already killed their dogs..that to me says by that point he was angry and hating these two..

What if that day MH was killing Tina and Kody raging with hatred about girlfriend and young son{which happened to be near Kody's age}...Therefor separating Sarah, as she was not an intended victim...and SS as many of us believe came later with intentions on staying with the kids while Tina worked an evening shift...she wasn't an intended victim I believe most of us readily admit that she was at the wrong place at the wrong time..as sad and tragic as that is..I do feel its true...perhaps coming in right oin the middle of the rage{with Sarah already safely separated}

Then he's left with Sarah and doesn't know what to do..he truly sees her as an "innocent" in all of this.. This too would make sense as to the comment that MH made to his mom...That he was relieved that Sunday morning when SWAT busted in and rescued Sarah..He was relieved that she could go home..That would make sense with her not being an intended victim..

I know it sounds crazy, but we are talking about the mind of a crazy man..Am just attempting to look at all possibilities because SM as the motive is not adding up for me...

SBM (and I think you should removed that ykw from your first paragraph that I've snipped).

This is a good theory, a "double replacement" theory. Other than the obvious (I think) of him ambushing everyone, one by one, this is the best I've read yet.

 

[Reannan]

Did we ever get an accurate acct of what the actual scene of the inside of the King Beach residence was?.....

Where did we learn of the beer cans? and have we ever had clarification on what the "unusual amount" of blood really meant?

This is certainly a less than stellar example of a news source, but they discuss the fact that:

"Police have reported beer cans littered the house, which was blood splattered."

If you google "SM beer cans" you can find several other links that allude to the early reports of the house being in a state of disarray and a lot of beer cans littering the home. I remember thinking early on, that someone had been in the home for a period of time, which was a scary thought.

http://www.americasnewsonline.com/s...-fading-fast-for-remaining-three-missing-911/

 

[peel]

I suspect his intention was to burn the house down but he didn't get the chance....thanks to the Dq woman who went inside and called police....

 

[passionflower]

I have thought about "what if" I get called for Jury Duty, if it's here. Do I want to see the evidence (crime scene photos, and worse, the bodies?). Do I really want to hear the details of what he did to those people? So I don't know what I'd do if called. Could I honestly answer I don't know a lot of pre-trial details about the case? lol, I don't think so. And if I were to lie to get on (wouldn't happen, but hey), what if they found out I was a member here? It does show up in Google searches, first page. Mistrial? Verdict reversal? Ugg.

But that case in your town had that "typical suspect" aspect to it. Horrible as it was, isn't that the way it usually goes? Speaking of the panic in Knox County. My (delayed) panic only really happened *after* I heard it was not LM or GB. Had I known that before he was caught OMG. Because you can set the fear aside and think "well, it wasn't a stranger probably ... probably someone they knew" and there isn't that self danger aspect to it. So going back to Sheriff Barber's chosen wording, that's probably why.

I'm not sure if I were to be murdered, which would be worse though: stranger or someone who knew me/used to care about me etc.
hmmmm

My sympathies do go out to all the brave jurors that have to endure
the punishment of viewing the most horrific photographs and hear the unthinkable.
I have thought many times of the dreams, PTSD jurors have after such trials.
I have never been picked for anything serious for a jury.
I am hoping he confesses and saves everyone from a long gruesome trial.
Be brave.......

 

[VicVixvi]

I hesitate posting this. It is the realtors' web site who sold 481 King Beach to TH & GB. It contains pictures of the rooms of the house.

http://www.sammiller.com/481kbd.htm

 

[peel]

speaking of Sarah, I was so steamed last week when NG kept posting her picture continuosly.......why do that?.....she faces a tough battle and she doesn't need to be nationally recognized...I emailed NG but I doubt she takes criticism very well...

on the note of MH pleading guilty....that is all fine and good....but I do want to know answers....there is just much left unsaid...the why, the how, etc...

 

[mikeysmommom]

I hesitate posting this. It is the realtors' web site who sold 481 King Beach to TH & GB. It contains pictures of the rooms of the house.

http://www.sammiller.com/481kbd.htm

Seeing the house inside where the brutal violence took place is chilling, it looks so safe and cozy.The house lay-out is so open, I wonder if the windows were well covered since LE only was able to see beer bottles but not blood.

 

[peel]

I don't like giving MH any "out"....like what he did was because of his breakup with his girlfriend.....

I give him no outs...nothing can explain this travesty....nothing can explain him cutting up human beings and throwing them in trash bags and throwing them out like garbage....often, hunters after shooting a deer, bringing it home, skinning it, and then cutting up the meat to wrap and put in the freezer, will throw the bones in a bag to put in the garbage...this is what MH did to these people...treated them like discarded body parts from a wild animal....

nothing that ever happened to MH could ever explain this....nothing...

 

[Texas Mist]

Seeing the house inside where the brutal violence took place is chilling, it looks so safe and cozy.The house lay-out is so open, I wonder if the windows were well cover since LE only was able to see beer bottles but not blood.

I thought the same thing - it looks so bright & cheery, like a happy family home.

Just can't imagine how anything evil could stand to be near something so peaceful & comforting.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I don't like giving MH any "out"....like what he did was because of his breakup with his girlfriend.....

I give him no outs...nothing can explain this travesty....nothing can explain him cutting up human beings and throwing them in trash bags and throwing them out like garbage....often, hunters after shooting a deer, bringing it home, skinning it, and then cutting up the meat to wrap and put in the freezer, will throw the bones in a bag to put in the garbage...this is what MH did to these people...treated them like discarded body parts from a wild animal....

nothing that ever happened to MH could ever explain this....nothing...

Who is even remotely giving this MH an out? A theory about what was going thru a monster's head is hardly an "out"..

Evil gets no parting gifts, no "passes", and no "outs" in my world..just to be clear..

 

[VicVixvi]

Seeing the house inside where the brutal violence took place is chilling, it looks so safe and cozy.The house lay-out is so open, I wonder if the windows were well cover since LE only was able to see beer bottles but not blood.

I suspect that the killings happened down the hallway that is seen in the center of this picture. The front door would be to the right as you are viewing it. The bedrooms and bathroom would be down that hall.

Now, assuming that I am correct, take another look at the picture of the front of the house.

When the deputy did the welfare check, he would have parked in the driveway, walked up the steps to the door. If he was standing on the front porch, If he was tall, he could view through the door's "half-moon" window (and seen the kitchen to the left of the first picture) or into the living room window (roughly the position where the first picture was taken from).

 

[Cazzie]

Those photos are so sad...a nice little house, the breakup of a relationship...and then the worst. But thanks for posting them.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I suspect that the killings happened down the hallway that is seen in the center of this picture. The front door would be to the right as you are viewing it. The bedrooms and bathroom would be down that hall.

Now, assuming that I am correct, take another look at the picture of the front of the house.

When the deputy did the welfare check, he would have parked in the driveway, walked up the steps to the door. If he was standing on the front porch, If he was tall, he could view through the door's "half-moon" window (and seen the kitchen to the left of the first picture) or into the living room window (roughly the position where the first picture was taken from).

Now that makes sense to me TY.Looking at the picture I wonder if he hid in that closet waiting for each one to come home.