GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[mikeysmommom]

If you look at the picture window by the front door, the little window closest to the door,if that was unlocked he might have been able to slide it open and reach the door knob to unlock the door.My house use to have same type of window next to front door.We went grocery shopping to come home to my mom in the house,that's how she got in.We had just been in our home a month when she discovered it.I always made sure after that to lock it.Anyone who has a window like that by the front door please check make sure you keep it locked.

 

[SmoothOperator]

as far as how he entered the home...

what are most ppls thoughts on this?

do you think he entered thru the same back open window that valerie did?
{one thing that makes me think this possibility is the fact that the house was recently ransacked, was this how they entered thru this window}... and you'd think that certainly since the ransacking on top of seeing that someone was watching your home{e.g. camo guy on tree stump} that all locks and deadbolts for all door windows, sliding glass doors, etc would be made sure to be working and made sure they were used.. but it sure sounds as tho that wasn't the case{esp.since val knew about that window didn't she?..I may be mistaken about that Ill have to recheck}

or as some have mentioned they think that tina or stephanie let him the home when he knocked?{as some even said..maybe had a beer or two with him???..}

just wanted to see what most thought??

I have several theories so depending on the theory my thoughts of how he gained entrance differ with all 3 theories..

 

[antiquegirl]

Even I have to recognize that Sheriff Barber has been hard to read. I thought I had him figured out, until the facts came out. I think he put his "public face" on for the press, probably to make sure his whole county didn't go into panic mode (or worse, given how many gun registrations there probably are here, if you know what I mean ... I mean, someone got themselves arrested, so he could go do in MH). But he had me fooled, and calmed (mission accomplished?).

It probably explains why he always skirted around the volunteers issue. He probably knew he had to find bodies, and while he didn't want/ask volunteers to go look, what could he say that would discourage them? He was always very lukewarm on that topic though, and in hindsight I now see why.

But it also could be a difference in perception (on the blood issue). Sheriff Barber has been around a while, and has probably seen a lot. Perhaps MH cleaned it up enough that it appeared the way the Sheriff said. The Uncle's perception as a layman, might be to describe the blood from a nose bleed as "a lot". Men are more whimpy about blood, at least the ones I know. But who knows.

(RSBM)

I don't trust the media for obvious reasons. In my 1 1/2 years at WS, following half a dozen cases from beginning to end, it has become obvious that they rush to get their items into print to beat the competition, they mis-hear things, they quote unsubstantiated rumours, and they tend to sensationalize as much as their editors will allow in order to sell their product. Over and over again, we have found dozens of errors in reporting that were later proven to be false.

I also don't trust reports by neighbours, friends, and other persons interviewed by the media, some of whom exaggerate, lie, and make mistakes. Then, this can all be misquoted, or quoted out of context, by the media.

So, what's left? That leaves only what I hear LE say with my own ears. Otherwise, we really have nothing.

Today, I listened again to Sheriff Barber's first two pressers. He struck me as an honest, sincere man, calm under the circumstances. I didn't catch a single false note in what he said, unless he hesitated. With regards to the condition of the house and what LE expected after Sarah was rescued, I took him at his word and wrote down verbatim what he said.

FROM 11/13/2010 PRESSER

BARBER:

• " ... unusual amount of blood in that house."
• "It isn't from someone stubbing their toe or cutting their finger peeling an apple, or something like that."

MALE REPORTER: "It's not like an axe murder or anything like that, right?"

BARBER:

• "No, it's not. No."
• "It wasn't a situation where it looked like there was a wild party."

FEMALE REPORTER: "You have not said publicly and you're not saying now that these four people are dead."

BARBER: "Not at this time. No."

FROM 11/15/2010 PRESSER

BARBER:

• "We still want to remain optimistic that Tina, Stephanie, and Kody are alive, maybe being held against their will at some location."

This was after they had time to thoroughly investigate the house and after Hoffman had been arrested. Sheriff Barber sounded completely sincere to me. So, I can't believe that statement about the house having to be "gutted" or that it looked as bad as some reports claimed. I'm just more inclined to believe this soft-spoken sheriff than what I've read online.

But, that's JMHO.

 

[nerosleuth]

Here's what I think his attorney is doing.

Waiving the prelim (where evidence is presented to the court to determine if he'll be bound over for trial) keeps evidence out of public record & the atty doesn't have to show his hand at a defense yet.

Forcing an indictment by a GJ, which is a secret hearing, will keep whatever evidence the prosecutor has out of the public eye...especially if the GJ hearing transcripts remain sealed.

The defense attorney doesn't want the horrible truth about MH exposed right now.

That's exactly what the defense attorney is doing. When his case goes to the GJ, the GJ can also consider other charges as well for indictment.

When he is indicted on the other charges, there will be another formal hearing in Common Pleas Court where he makes a plea to the additional charges.

How it goes from there depends on how he pleads to the charges.

If a decision is made to go on trial for those charges, the defense attorney would most likely waive the right to a speedy trail and try to have the trial as later as they possibly can.

What this means that if the right to speedy trial is waived, it may not be until late 2011 or early 2012 at the earliest before he stands trial.

 

[VicVixvi]

(RSBM)

I don't trust the media for obvious reasons. In my 1 1/2 years at WS, following half a dozen cases from beginning to end, it has become obvious that they rush to get their items into print to beat the competition, they mis-hear things, they quote unsubstantiated rumours, and they tend to sensationalize as much as their editors will allow in order to sell their product. Over and over again, we have found dozens of errors in reporting that were later proven to be false.

I also don't trust reports by neighbours, friends, and other persons interviewed by the media, some of whom exaggerate, lie, and make mistakes. Then, this can all be misquoted, or quoted out of context, by the media.

So, what's left? That leaves only what I hear LE say with my own ears. Otherwise, we really have nothing.

Today, I listened again to Sheriff Barber's first two pressers. He struck me as an honest, sincere man, calm under the circumstances. I didn't catch a single false note in what he said, unless he hesitated. With regards to the condition of the house and what LE expected after Sarah was rescued, I took him at his word and wrote down verbatim what he said.

FROM 11/13/2010 PRESSER

BARBER:

• " ... unusual amount of blood in that house."
• "It isn't from someone stubbing their toe or cutting their finger peeling an apple, or something like that."

MALE REPORTER: "It's not like an axe murder or anything like that, right?"

BARBER:

• "No, it's not. No."
• "It wasn't a situation where it looked like there was a wild party."

FEMALE REPORTER: "You have not said publicly and you're not saying now that these four people are dead."

BARBER: "Not at this time. No."

FROM 11/15/2010 PRESSER

BARBER:

• "We still want to remain optimistic that Tina, Stephanie, and Kody are alive, maybe being held against their will at some location."

This was after they had time to thoroughly investigate the house and after Hoffman had been arrested. Sheriff Barber sounded completely sincere to me. So, I can't believe that statement about the house having to be "gutted" or that it looked as bad as some reports claimed. I'm just more inclined to believe this soft-spoken sheriff than what I've read online.

But, that's JMHO.

I read your post right after reading the following article in the Columbus Dispatch.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...it-first-but-always-get-it-right.html?sid=101

I spent many years on our local VFD. For part of that time, I served as our department's public information officer. In that capacity, it was my job to contact area news agencies with information about runs of interest. Believe me when I say that they (the news agencies) only get about 50% of the facts reported correctly.

 

[Mia]

This could have turned out with 4 or 5 victims instead of three. I don't know what the answer is. 150 years ago, people had what was called "fire marks" on their homes. This was a plaque that was put on the outside of the house with an emblem on it that told firemen that this house was insured. The firemen fought extra hard to save an insured house back in the mid 1800s. Perhaps an emblem on the outside of the house, below the address, telling first responders that they have permission to enter?

Hi Leila, interesting information. I know this is slightly off topic, but do you know why firefighters would have fought extra hard to save houses that were insured? It seems like the opposite would be true - after all, if a family's house was insured, they'd be given money from the insurance company to rebuild/renovate, whereas many families that were uninsured would have probably ended up homeless, with no money to fix their fire ravaged home. Again, sorry for the O/T, just very curious!

 

[VicVixvi]

Hi Leila, interesting information. I know this is slightly off topic, but do you know why firefighters would have fought extra hard to save houses that were insured? It seems like the opposite would be true - after all, if a family's house was insured, they'd be given money from the insurance company to rebuild/renovate, whereas many families that were uninsured would have probably ended up homeless, with no money to fix their fire ravaged home. Again, sorry for the O/T, just very curious!

Firefighting used to be a private for-profit industry. In the 1800's, the early days of urbanization, in cities like New York and Baltimore, there were private "clubs" or "gangs" who were in charge of putting out fires. The infamous Boss Tweed started his illustrious political career at a volunteer fire company. The way it functioned was the first club at the scene got money from the insurance company. So, they had an incentive to get there fast. They also had an incentive to sabotage competition. They also often ended up getting in fights over territory and many times buildings would burn down before the issue was resolved. They were glorified looters. It was corrupt, bloated and expensive...

Taken from:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tina-dupuy/firefighting-in-the-1800s_b_247936.html

 

[antiquegirl]

as far as how he entered the home...

what are most ppls thoughts on this?

do you think he entered thru the same back open window that valerie did?
{one thing that makes me think this possibility is the fact that the house was recently ransacked, was this how they entered thru this window}... and you'd think that certainly since the ransacking on top of seeing that someone was watching your home{e.g. camo guy on tree stump} that all locks and deadbolts for all door windows, sliding glass doors, etc would be made sure to be working and made sure they were used.. but it sure sounds as tho that wasn't the case{esp.since val knew about that window didn't she?..I may be mistaken about that Ill have to recheck}

or as some have mentioned they think that tina or stephanie let him the home when he knocked?{as some even said..maybe had a beer or two with him???..}

just wanted to see what most thought??

I have several theories so depending on the theory my thoughts of how he gained entrance differ with all 3 theories..

I honestly don't believe that MH broke into that home. First of all, Sheriff Barber said:

QUESTION: Was this a home invasion?

BARBER: No, I don't believe so.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/15/cnr.07.html

Secondly, if there had been any sign of a break-in, the officer doing the well-checks should have noticed something amiss. Even an open window.

Third, if MH had opened a window to get in before anyone came home, would he really have closed it again? Wouldn't one of the four people arriving home notice it? Would MH leave blood behind, but bother to close the window when he was done?

From the same presser linked above:

QUESTION: Where did she first see this man Matthew Hoffman?

BARBER: Inside the house.

QUESTION: Inside the house? And, at the time, she was with her mom and her brother?

BARBER: Everyone was at home.

Note how evasive Barber's answer is. He didn't say what condition TH was in or when Hoffman arrived.

This is strictly speculation, but I think that either TH had met him before and let him in, or he talked his way into the house while she was still alone. I imagine them sitting either in the kitchen or the living room, having a few beers and chatting. Maybe he told her he knew SS and it's possible that he actually did.

(I had another paragraph here theorizing about what happened next, but thought better of it.)

Question: If the house was about to be foreclosed, does that mean it was listed for sale anywhere? Could MH have pretended to be interested in buying the house? Just a thought.

MOO

 

[mikeysmommom]

as far as how he entered the home...

what are most ppls thoughts on this?

do you think he entered thru the same back open window that valerie did?
{one thing that makes me think this possibility is the fact that the house was recently ransacked, was this how they entered thru this window}... and you'd think that certainly since the ransacking on top of seeing that someone was watching your home{e.g. camo guy on tree stump} that all locks and deadbolts for all door windows, sliding glass doors, etc would be made sure to be working and made sure they were used.. but it sure sounds as tho that wasn't the case{esp.since val knew about that window didn't she?..I may be mistaken about that Ill have to recheck}

or as some have mentioned they think that tina or stephanie let him the home when he knocked?{as some even said..maybe had a beer or two with him???..}

just wanted to see what most thought??

I have several theories so depending on the theory my thoughts of how he gained entrance differ with all 3 theories..

I have a feeling the little window by the door was unlocked and he was able to unlock the door by reaching inside.Stephanie had gone to tanning salon, Tina might have been in the shower or in basement doing laundry. I think he got Tina first maybe tied and gagged her left her in a bedroom.Waited for Stephanie to come back and did the same to her.Maybe at that point he stabbed them and put them in the bathtub,then put them into bags. When finished he drank the beer and waiting for the kids to come home.I feel sick typing this.:furious:

 

[CajunCares]

After reading everything about this case i think he was watching SS and TH. Both families have stated that both women felt they were being watched. I think he might have even overheard them talking somewhere about GB being gone for work and them going to look for apartments. Maybe SS went there after her tanning and TH was already in the clutches of this monster. I think maybe he knocked on the door and TH (expecting SS) opened the door and met MH instead. I think TH was gone before SS got there. Then SS. Then the kids came home. If SM was not his target all along maybe somehow she was able to strike a chord with him in something she said and in his sick head he thought it could be a relationship so he decided to keep her.And i do think he was in the house at the time of the first welfare check. These are just my thoughts on a possible timing.

 

[VicVixvi]

I honestly don't believe that MH broke into that home. First of all, Sheriff Barber said:

QUESTION: Was this a home invasion?

BARBER: No, I don't believe so.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/15/cnr.07.html

Secondly, if there had been any sign of a break-in, the officer doing the well-checks should have noticed something amiss. Even an open window.

Third, if MH had opened a window to get in before anyone came home, would he really have closed it again? Wouldn't one of the four people arriving home notice it? Would MH leave blood behind, but bother to close the window when he was done?

From the same presser linked above:

QUESTION: Where did she first see this man Matthew Hoffman?

BARBER: Inside the house.

QUESTION: Inside the house? And, at the time, she was with her mom and her brother?

BARBER: Everyone was at home.

Note how evasive Barber's answer is. He didn't say what condition TH was in or when Hoffman arrived.

This is strictly speculation, but I think that either TH had met him before and let him in, or he talked his way into the house while she was still alone. I imagine them sitting either in the kitchen or the living room, having a few beers and chatting. Maybe he told her he knew SS and it's possible that he actually did.

(I had another paragraph here theorizing about what happened next, but thought better of it.)

Question: If the house was about to be foreclosed, does that mean it was listed for sale anywhere? Could MH have pretended to be interested in buying the house? Just a thought.

MOO

I had the same thought which is what led me to discover the pictures from when the house sold previously. I searched the MLS for Knox County and also sites such as lakehouse.com but could not find any active listing for the house.

Edit: I also found another interesting tidbit but I am still parsing that one and have a few details to verify further before I post it.

 

[mikeysmommom]

GB had said they were behind a few payments that sounds like the house just started foreclosure. I do not know about Ohio but in NJ it can take quite awhile before you have to leave the home.We have one in our neighborhood it has been in foreclosure now 2 yrs and people still live in the home.

 

[lucimhome]

What do you all think of this? As I was driving around today thinking about this sad case. Working thru all the things that we know about.

What do you all think of the way they found Sarah was from her. Rumors or what ever said she ran to her room and locked the door.

Do you think she some how took her phone with her. Had it some place he didn't see?
And the powers to be GPS her by her phone. As long as it was on they could ping her. I'm sure they all had phones she was the only one able to get hers out. I think I read some where that they knew she was where she was and was hoping to find another one of them with her?

 

[nerosleuth]

I have thought about "what if" I get called for Jury Duty, if it's here.

Well, no matter which county this trial takes place in the State of Ohio, here's what can be expected.

This is going to be a sensational trial. Lots of news media from everywhere are going to be covering this.

I say the trial will probably take longer than two weeks but less than several weeks. At least it won't be as long as the Charles Manson trial or the OJ Simpson trial.

And there is the possibility that the jurors could be sequestered during the trial. What this means is that throughout the trial, jurors would stay in motels rather than going home to their families at the end of the day.

When you're sequestered, you won't have access to radio, television, newspapers, pc's, cell phones, and pagers.

 

[mikeysmommom]

What do you all think of this? As I was driving around today thinking about this sad case. Working thru all the things that we know about.

What do you all think of the way they found Sarah was from her. Rumors or what ever said she ran to her room and locked the door.

Do you think she some how took her phone with her. Had it some place he didn't see?
And the powers to be GPS her by her phone. As long as it was on they could ping her. I'm sure they all had phones she was the only one able to get hers out. I think I read some where that they knew she was where she was and was hoping to find another one of them with her?

I thought maybe she had her phone in a back pocket on vibrate because it can't ring at school.He probably did not check her pockets.I do think they found her with pings,because Barber said he knew she was there and was hoping the other 3 were also.

 

[lucimhome]

I thought maybe she had her phone in a back pocket on vibrate because it can't ring at school.He probably did not check her pockets.I do think they found her with pings,because Barber said he knew she was there and was hoping the other 3 were also.

Thanks for answering me. I want to stop thinking about all this. I have hope it will be soon. I can't look @ the pic's of the inside of the house. It sounds big & open.

 

[Cazzie]

And please, nobody post a pic of the bathroom. It's on the site if you want to look at it, but I do not want to...one look was too much.

 

[antiquegirl]

What do you all think of this? As I was driving around today thinking about this sad case. Working thru all the things that we know about.

What do you all think of the way they found Sarah was from her. Rumors or what ever said she ran to her room and locked the door.

Do you think she some how took her phone with her. Had it some place he didn't see?
And the powers to be GPS her by her phone. As long as it was on they could ping her. I'm sure they all had phones she was the only one able to get hers out. I think I read some where that they knew she was where she was and was hoping to find another one of them with her?

If she ran to her room, locked the door, and had her phone with her, why didn't she use it to call for help? I also don't believe that it would take the FBI three days to trace her phone if she still had it with her at Hoffman's house.

I honestly don't know how LE found Sarah, but I'm sure we will find out. Just SO glad that they did.

JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

As painful as it is to think about, I'm remembering now what Dr. Ogle's autopsy results revealed. According to the reports, each victim had fatal stab wounds to the chest and back, as well as more minor non-fatal wounds. From this I can only assume that they were not bound, but had tried to escape. Had they been bound in a chair, there would be no back wounds and no minor wounds indicating defensive injuries.

In a tiny way, this is somewhat comforting. If true, they were spared a terrifying wait, being bound and not knowing what their fates would be. Instead, it sounds as if they were taken by surprise and that it was quick. Still horrific, but perhaps preferable to the alternative.

As well, going by Sheriff Barber's November 15th statement to the press that they were still optimistic about finding them alive, it would appear that Sarah did not know that her family and SS had been killed. A small mercy, but still ... .

Clutching at straws here, trying to find even a glimmer of a silver lining to this very dark cloud.

JMO

 

[VicVixvi]

MH's suicide watch logs:

http://static.mgnetwork.com/cmh/media_path/pdf/hoffmansuicidelog.pdf