2. I fully believe Bill knew his attackers/killers. I have virtually zero doubt on this. I believe the polygraph results showing "deceptive" were not due to him lying about being attacked, but were merely a result of him not opening up and divulging the true identity of his "later to be" murderers.
It is still a mystery as to what it was that allowed the attackers such overwhelming control and power over Bill for him not to divulge their names, or any info as to why they were after him.
Wow Methodical! Just wow! Your moniker suits you well!
Welcome, you are an incredible addition to the sleuthing team!
Several friends told me that a couple upper classmen would come to the choir room and "stare Bill down". I am not sure if they were ever questioned.
In the Sept 1, 1980, Ronald Steven Capehart (18) and Gary Lee Trudell (16) charged with (stabbing) murder of Edith Bridenstine. Both boys attended Westland High School (along with Bill).
Hey guys. Bill's case has specifically made me want to sign up here and give my 2 cents...
I believe Bill was being bullied and then killed by two twisted individuals slightly older then him from Westland High school.
Katco's post
By all accounts he was the 'perfect kid', good looking, good natured, possibly naive? He is the perfect prey for a couple of older/stronger cowardly bullies.
Did he have a girlfriend or a girl that liked him that one of the bullies liked? Or was it out of jealousy because he was popular?
He received threatening letters before the attacks, so to, did this 'girl' and another of his friends.
This sounds to me like some cruel crazy stalking game concocted by two local misfits in the neighbourhood.
I think its pretty clear that whomever attacked him on the two previous occasions had a very good idea of the neighbourhood.
They also knew about Bill's newspaper round. Presumably, he was attacked at night time on those two assaults? Such a small vicinity i think its very possible for two older youths to stalk and follow him undercover of darkness pretty easily.
Im not convinced that they tried to murder him the first time or the second tbh. Again, i think they were getting their 'kick's and adrenaline fix out of the 'hunt' and the complete power they held over him the two occasions they strangled him. I reckon to them, this was some sick macabre game and they wanted to prolong it as much as they could. Hence the letter posting before and after and after that.
The second assault they apparently drove a turquoise car? I mean, if thats true, then i guess its plausible that they were roaming the streets when they happened upon him by chance and decided to attack him again.
A couple of guys earlier in the thread mentioned that they think the killer/s seemed very disorganized and quite brazen to attempt to kill Bill on three occasions.
I do not believe they were trying to kill him at all. Seriously harm him and terrorise him yes, but i dont think the intentions were the first two times to kill. Two men aged from 18+ could definitely kill a 15 year by strangulation if they really wanted to.
About the Polygraph. LE stated that BC was trying to be deceptive? Perhaps he did have an incline as to who it was but was so petrified of the consequences of naming them.
He stated to LE that he could not ID his attackers? Did the attackers wear some kind of ski mask? Hoody? Scarf? Plus the fact it was dark and he was attacked from behind leads me to believe they did not intend to kill BC, they intended on doing it again and again and sending more letters and continuing their bullying campaign.
On the night Bill was killed i think the two attackers came on foot and put a knife to him and marched him off up to the train tracks (Same knife found at the scene) and there they presumably forced him to take Valium for reasons im not sure, to render him weaker? Power/dominance play?
And then they strangled Bill until he passed out and then they vanished off again into the night back to their houses.
Because Bill was still alive when they left him, again im not sure if they intended to kill him?
Im really stuck at this point tbh. Were they spooked by a neighbour and ran off prematurely? Or again, did they intend to render him unconscious for their twisted little game?
The above is just way to much of a coincidence in such a small neighbourhood to be ignored. They fit the profile for sure. Right age, same school, lived a mile away from BC. And they are murderers (Hindsight to BC case)
Im so baffled by this sad story. I feel so terrible seeing Bill's picture and reading those heartbreaking interviews and articles. Me personally, i could never keep such a secret if i was being tormented, i would tell someone straight away...
Going, you may be correct, but a human being is different from an animal. Remember for a psychopath it may also be the "power". I think the killer(s) is/are new to murder. They may not have realized how long was needed for strangulation. Sorry to be so blunt.
On your BBM 3, 4, & 5...
Simply, killing a human is not at all comparable to killing a dog, cat, bird, or typical wild animals. For the most part, at the hands of a sicko, most any animal can die easily/rapidly, and clinical death is far more obvious in an animal. It would be entirely up to the sicko how fast, easy, slow or painful he wants to carry it out.
As for the suspected "psycho perp" not releasing or walking away before he "knew" or could feel the death... unless that perp had many prior hands-on kills with actual humans, he would not realize that true clinical and unrecoverable death typically is a fair amount longer after the point where one "thinks" the subject is dead. Even doctors have to closely monitor the heart for a beat/pulsation, with a stethoscope, before determining clinical (unrecoverable) death.
That is why I believe the perps "thought" BC was dead each time, and I surmise they were crude and "somewhat sloppy" in their strangulation measures, and underestimated guaranteed death. (the human body is very resistant most times)
But I agree, it's far from being 100% certain.
Original posts TBM:
Rainy and Methodical, you both make a very good point here. And I think this is a great conversation -- I am really enjoying it
When I said our hypothetical psychopath's experiences with animals would have taught him what death "looks" like, I meant it literally. He may not have known what it felt like to kill a human, but he might know what a body looks like and feels like when dead.
And to make a similar point, our psychopath is not an ordinary human. He's one we've defined as someone who is highly motivated to kill, one who savors that very moment, gets a thrill from it. and who wants to get close to it. A psychopath would not be timid or nervous about this act. IMO, he would learn from his mistakes, if that's what they were.
Yet these attacks have a sloppy "strangle and run" feeling to them. The first one, in the woods, had the luxury of time on it's side. (Really, I see no evidence of anyone being surprised by witnesses at either of the first two attacks, as BC got away on his own both times and had to point out what happened to everyone else.)
I'm just saying, I think the fact that this highly motivated killing machine leaves the scene two -- maybe three -- times without seeing death occur is a contradiction in type. We are not talking about a thin line here. By the second or third time, he hasn't figured out that he can check to see if BC is breathing? Check his pulse or heartbeat? Or go for OVERKILL because by now he's PO'd? (I'm not seeing him as a patient type either.) Psychologically, I think it's just not a perfect fit. That's all.
If he's a psychopath, he may have to be one who's fired up by something else. JMO
[*]I believe too many pieces point to at least one of the attackers/murderers living or staying within direct eyesight of the Comeans residence. I am not ruling out at least one of them staying, or knowing/visiting someone fairly frequently that might live on the opposite (west) side of Maple Dr. In the 3rd fatal attack, it appeared more than just a "lucky chance" that they would catch Bill in the brief moments he was out in front of his house.
[/LIST]
This sounds to me like some cruel crazy stalking game concocted by two local misfits in the neighbourhood.
I think its pretty clear that whomever attacked him on the two previous occasions had a very good idea of the neighbourhood.
They also knew about Bill's newspaper round. Presumably, he was attacked at night time on those two assaults? Such a small vicinity i think its very possible for two older youths to stalk and follow him undercover of darkness pretty easily.
[*] ... It is also far less noticeable for the perps to be just "walking the edge of the street", especially at dinnertime or dusk/dark.
On the night Bill was killed i think the two attackers came on foot and put a knife to him and marched him off up to the train tracks ...
The problem I have with this part is that Bill was home, with his dad very close by and surely within ear-shot? Also other family members were home.
If someone who had previously strangled me to the point of near-death put a knife to me whilst I was in my front yard, I'd assume I knew what was coming next, and would scream and fight them off. ...
I have been reading your posts and I appreciate what you are thinking and writing. We have been speculating for 34 years now. Keep them coming. New detective starts next week. B
I have been reading your posts and I appreciate what you are thinking and writing. We have been speculating for 34 years now. Keep them coming. New detective starts next week. B
Hey guys. Bill's case has specifically made me want to sign up here and give my 2 cents... Great to have you aboard, MMz!
I believe Bill was being bullied and then killed by two twisted individuals slightly older then him from Westland High school. Surely twisted, and I also see a school connection. But beyond bullying, imo.
Katco's post: (her quote about the 2 staring him down in choir room didn't paste here, but it also was a huge red flag to me) They need to be identified/located/questioned, definitely.
By all accounts he was the 'perfect kid', good looking, good natured, possibly naive? He is the perfect prey for a couple of older/stronger cowardly bullies.
Did he have a girlfriend or a girl that liked him that one of the bullies liked? Or was it out of jealousy because he was popular? (Great kid, but the perfect type to be singled out by 15-20 year old thugs.)
He received threatening letters before the attacks, so to, did this 'girl' and another of his friends. Not sure if we confirmed he received any notes prior to 1st attack. Anyone know? Did I miss it?
This sounds to me like some cruel crazy stalking game concocted by two local misfits in the neighbourhood.
I think its pretty clear that whomever attacked him on the two previous occasions had a very good idea of the neighbourhood.
They also knew about Bill's newspaper round. Presumably, he was attacked at night time on those two assaults? Such a small vicinity i think its very possible for two older youths to stalk and follow him undercover of darkness pretty easily. I agree on they knew the entire area extremely well, & probably every nook & cranny. I also think they had extensive "venturing on foot" in the neighborhood, and likely many ppl have regularly seen them (possibly even BC's bro's sis's seen the w/o knowing).
Im not convinced that they tried to murder him the first time or the second tbh. Again, i think they were getting their 'kick's and adrenaline fix out of the 'hunt' and the complete power they held over him the two occasions they strangled him. I reckon to them, this was some sick macabre game and they wanted to prolong it as much as they could. Hence the letter posting before and after and after that. Most of the note posting after seems now to have originated from the sicko adult woman neighbor. Again, not convinced on the solely "scare" direction. Seems there'd be far more incidents of less serious scare tactics. (Maybe family knows of more?) Not just 3 serious incidents we know of, all that can foresee-ably/easily "accidentally" cause death. Even the worst of non-psycho teens know the possibility of fatality. If I were the perp(s) I'd be scared to death of causing him to die, using that extent of strangulation and ligature tools, if I only intended to scare the pants off BC.
The second assault they apparently drove a turquoise car? I mean, if thats true, then i guess its plausible that they were roaming the streets when they happened upon him by chance and decided to attack him again. I'm putting the supposed car on the backburner,, possible, but too many things indicate no car.
A couple of guys earlier in the thread mentioned that they think the killer/s seemed very disorganized and quite brazen to attempt to kill Bill on three occasions.
I do not believe they were trying to kill him at all. Seriously harm him and terrorise him yes, but i dont think the intentions were the first two times to kill. Two men aged from 18+ could definitely kill a 15 year by strangulation if they really wanted to. ONLY if time permits, if strangled. Only attack #1 was in a more secluded location. Attack #2 & #3 were in very open & public locations. It takes several more minutes, even after the victim drops unconscious, turns blue, stops breathing, and appears fully "dead" before he is irrecoverably dead. They would have to maintain pulling on a rope or scarf for quite awhile even after these signs I listed, which I'm sure they weren't aware of, so they "thought" fully he WAS dead. He would certainly appear dead. Remember this point,, the scarf was tied SO TIGHT his own brother & father couldn't untie it, and had to cut it off with a pocketknife. That tells me it was far beyond a "scare/bully" situation. Plus he was abducted only moments before (<20 mins) from his outside his own home, with his father within ear-shot of him.
About the Polygraph. LE stated that BC was trying to be deceptive? Perhaps he did have an incline as to who it was but was so petrified of the consequences of naming them. Agree, I believe he knew, but intense fear of divulging names. "Why" is the million dollar question.
He stated to LE that he could not ID his attackers? Did the attackers wear some kind of ski mask? Hoody? Scarf? Plus the fact it was dark and he was attacked from behind leads me to believe they did not intend to kill BC, they intended on doing it again and again and sending more letters and continuing their bullying campaign. I don't believe BC said there were any masks involved. Simply he did not see their faces. On the scare/kill debate... I addressed this in my prior greens above.
<remained trimmed/snipped by Methodical>
The problem I have with this part is that Bill was home, with his dad very close by and surely within ear-shot? Also other family members were home.
If someone who had previously strangled me to the point of near-death put a knife to me whilst I was in my front yard, I'd assume I knew what was coming next, and would scream and fight them off. May as well risk being stabbed with help nearby, than be taken away to be strangled in isolation.
So, I'm not sure I'd go along with that one. If threatened with a gun, I could see les chance to fight back, but not so with a knife.
Just MOO.
Original posts TBM:
Rainy and Methodical, you both make a very good point here. And I think this is a great conversation -- I am really enjoying it I agree, GBMG, & likewise with your insights!
When I said our hypothetical psychopath's experiences with animals would have taught him what death "looks" like, I meant it literally. He may not have known what it felt like to kill a human, but he might know what a body looks like and feels like when dead. I understand your logic. I think, however, I explained/detailed my views on this a little more than I previously had done, which is in my bolded green response in murkmanz post above.
And to make a similar point, our psychopath is not an ordinary human. He's one we've defined as someone who is highly motivated to kill, one who savors that very moment, gets a thrill from it. and who wants to get close to it. A psychopath would not be timid or nervous about this act. IMO, he would learn from his mistakes, if that's what they were.
Yet these attacks have a sloppy "strangle and run" feeling to them. The first one, in the woods, had the luxury of time on it's side. (Really, I see no evidence of anyone being surprised by witnesses at either of the first two attacks, as BC got away on his own both times and had to point out what happened to everyone else.) I agree on the "strangle & run" feeling. That overtone dominates, even if it's later showed the perps had no intention of it "being that way". I've given that 1st attack a lot of thought, having the same observations as you. For me, it's intensely hard for me to determine anything out of it. Simply not enough info or details. Very aggravating, and I absolutely hate to go to "guesswork". I need to know far more details of what exactly they did to Bill, and I mean "exactly". I'm having to just base it all on the plastic bag and the inner tube. Critical missing info: How tight did they tie it? Was he unconscious when they left him? Was he blue or pure ghostly white, to where they might have thought he was dead? Sooo many unanswered questions.
I'm just saying, I think the fact that this highly motivated killing machine leaves the scene two -- maybe three -- times without seeing death occur is a contradiction in type. We are not talking about a thin line here. By the second or third time, he hasn't figured out that he can check to see if BC is breathing? Check his pulse or heartbeat? Or go for OVERKILL because by now he's PO'd? (I'm not seeing him as a patient type either.) Psychologically, I think it's just not a perfect fit. That's all. Pulse/heartbeat: I believe this can surely & easily confuse any young attacker/killer. Even some first responders sometimes have a hard time telling if there's a pulse. Faint pulses and very faint breathing can easily go unnoticed especially for a young person, psycho or normal. Even when time permits ample time to "check" it. But remember, it was also dark out on that 1st attack.
If he's a psychopath, he may have to be one who's fired up by something else. JMO
I'd agree with that.
A real contradiction - skilled enough to leave no evidence or witnesses, but can't actually complete the kill until the 3rd attempted.
Mad thought, but what if it was girls rather than boys/men? Not physically strong enough to complete the strangulation.
Highly unlikely I know, especially as there were signs of Bill struggling - unless it was done for kicks and perhaps Bill was in on it (but too embarrassed to say?). I think you meant to say "no signs" of struggling. Just a typo.
Just another theory to put on the table and just MOO.
Several friends told me that a couple upper classmen would come to the choir room and "stare Bill down". I am not sure if they were ever questioned.
I believe, in those days, that valium was much, much more freely prescribed than it is today. Many more people could have accessed it from the family medicine cabinet then. If there wasn't anyone in the Comeans family taking it, then there was a good possibility that someone Bill knew or encountered that night, had access to it.
Several friends told me that a couple upper classmen would come to the choir room and "stare Bill down". I am not sure if they were ever questioned.
But remember, it was also dark out on that 1st attack.
I have been reading your posts and I appreciate what you are thinking and writing. We have been speculating for 34 years now. Keep them coming. New detective starts next week. B
Original post TBM:
I'm getting confused on dates and times, so am pasting a refresher below. Yes, they all seem like night time attacks.
I'm also wondering if the dates are of any importance. For example, the Sept./Jan. attacks come just after school holidays. Thinking back to my very dated years in HS, often those students treading the slippery slope between being in school and dropping/getting booted out would come to school for a few days when school started, then start cutting again shortly after. By any chance would 10/22 fit this bill in Ohio schools -- some kind of "fall break" maybe?
- First Assault: 9/5/1979, Wednesday, 8:30 PM
Re the above, I'm on the east coast. Here, two days post Labor Day, this might be dusk. Can anyone near Columbus say for sure?Sunset was 8:05 pm in Cincinnati, OH on this date. Therefore sunset would have been very close to 7:55 PM in Columbus. Therefore at the dark edge of twilight. You typically have about 20-30 mins after sunset before it gets "night dark".
- Second Assault: 10/22/79, Saturday, 6:30 PM (It was actually a Monday, not a Saturday, on that date.)
Definitely dark?Sunset was 6:52 pm in Cincinnati, OH on this date. Therefore sunset would have been very close to 6:45 PM in Columbus. Therefore, still light out.
- Third assault/murder: 1/7/80, Monday, About 9 PM
Definitely dark.Sunset was 5:30 pm in Cincinnati, OH on this date. Therefore sunset would have been very close to 5:20 PM in Columbus. Therefore, definitely dark.