OK - 8 dead in fire, being investigated as homicide, Broken Arrow, Oct 27, 2022

[airportwoman]

I taught in elementary buildings & pre-K for a long time. That's generally worded as expressing the rhythm of music physically, includes clapping and marching to music as well as dance. Teachers imho missed the child & Mom, didn't miss Dad, imho.

And, the naming pattern also says a lot.

<modsnip - no link>

Kurgan, Ragnar, and Vegeta set off my alarm bells.

Yes, the world has changed since Anakin was an unusual name, but not that much.

jmho ymmv lrr

I've seen the name Ragnar, and it's Scandinavian. The other two you mentioned are names of anime' characters.

Finally we find out who the family is....lots of information in this article which includes an interview with the husband's parents.

Tulsa couple mourning suspected murder-suicide of son, daughter-in-law and six grandchildren in BA



The parents were: Brian (34) & Brittany Nelson (32).
The murdered children were: Brian II, age 13, daughter Brantley, 9, sons Vegeta, 7, Ragnar, 5, and Kurgan, 2, and daughter Britannica, 19 months.

They apparently were loaded up with student debt from Brian's studies. It sounds like he spent a lot of time taking college courses. Brittany didn't work and she homeschooled the kids. Brian always had a gun in his pocket.

Apparently Brian had an accident at work when he was in his early 20s and experienced a head injury. His parents said he changed a bit after that and suffered from severe headaches.

Lots more in the article.

Such a sad, sad case.
Rest in peace young ones. You didn't deserve this.

What a tragic story. (You may have to register in order to read it.) I wonder if Brittany had some degree of mental disability herself. Gallstones, and more recently seizures? Not unusual for a mother of 6 to have gallstones, but seizures don't usually have an adult onset without some obvious precipitating factor.

 

[Snoopster]

I've seen the name Ragnar, and it's Scandinavian. The other two you mentioned are names of anime' characters.

What a tragic story. (You may have to register in order to read it.) I wonder if Brittany had some degree of mental disability herself. Gallstones, and more recently seizures? Not unusual for a mother of 6 to have gallstones, but seizures don't usually have an adult onset without some obvious precipitating factor.

Brittany's 'health issues' might have been a story made up by her husband for times when she couldn't be seen by other relatives....just a thought.
Brittany was described by a neighbor as being quiet and remote. Her inlaws said she 'generally went along with her husband'.
I think she was under his control and was abused.

JMO.

 

[realanastasia]

Brittany's 'health issues' might have been a story made up by her husband for times when she couldn't be seen by other relatives....just a thought.
Brittany was described by a neighbor as being quiet and remote. Her inlaws said she 'generally went along with her husband'.
I think she was under his control and was abused.

JMO.

I've seen the name Ragnar, and it's Scandinavian. The other two you mentioned are names of anime' characters.

What a tragic story. (You may have to register in order to read it.) I wonder if Brittany had some degree of mental disability herself. Gallstones, and more recently seizures? Not unusual for a mother of 6 to have gallstones, but seizures don't usually have an adult onset without some obvious precipitating factor.

The adult-onset “seizures” would also make a convenient excuse for otherwise-unexplainable injuries/bruising that people might have observed on the wife...

<modsnip - referenced post was snipped>

 

[realanastasia]

From the Tulsa World article linked above, this excerpt with a GIANT RED FLAG bolded by me:

”Of her daughter-in-law Brittney, Marilyn said was clearly stressed from caring for six children, including home-schooling.

“She basically went along with my son Brian, but she usually was OK,” she said.

Brittney’s mother “had issues,” her in-laws said, and died early in her childhood. Her father wasn’t around, so Brittney had to live with relatives she claimed had been “mean” to her.

She and Brian met when they were both students at Tulsa’s East Central High School and quickly formed a bond so ironclad that Brian, who was a grade ahead of her, figured out a way to remain in high school for a fifth year so they could graduate together.”

(IMO this was no romantic gesture but simply contrived by Brian to keep tabs on Brittany at all times. IMO Brian subsequently ensured Brittany would be tied to him permanently by getting her pregnant right out of high school, if my math is right based on the timeline from Brian’s mother.)

“Were Danny and Marilyn ever aware of any violence in the younger Nelsons’ home?
Both gave an emphatic “No,” but then Marilyn recalled, “Well, the first couple years of marriage, when they just had a baby and they were very young, they struggled. They were just out of high school.”
“Public records indicate Brian and Brittney married in November 2008 and their first birth announcement, for son Brian II, appeared in the Tulsa World just four months later.”

 

[caradana]

MSM reporting has a neighbor referring to him as controlling and their finances were in desperation-type shape. That six-figure student loan debt, the 2020 BK … it’s certainly not an excuse, it’s an observation, but whoa, the rational stress of that … and the most valuable single asset class this family had was guns. I wonder how many thousands of families in America are in very similar financial circumstances tonight. … Such a sad loss, these kids. Link Broken Arrow man reflects on time living across from family found dead in burning home

 

[Snoopster]

MSM reporting has a neighbor referring to him as controlling and their finances were in desperation-type shape. That six-figure student loan debt, the 2020 BK … it’s certainly not an excuse, it’s an observation, but whoa, the rational stress of that … and the most valuable single asset class this family had was guns. I wonder how many thousands of families in America are in very similar financial circumstances tonight. … Such a sad loss, these kids. Link Broken Arrow man reflects on time living across from family found dead in burning home

Buying guns instead of paying debts.
SMH.

 

[Snoopster]

From the Tulsa World article linked above, this excerpt with a GIANT RED FLAG bolded by me:

”Of her daughter-in-law Brittney, Marilyn said was clearly stressed from caring for six children, including home-schooling.

“She basically went along with my son Brian, but she usually was OK,” she said.

Brittney’s mother “had issues,” her in-laws said, and died early in her childhood. Her father wasn’t around, so Brittney had to live with relatives she claimed had been “mean” to her.

She and Brian met when they were both students at Tulsa’s East Central High School and quickly formed a bond so ironclad that Brian, who was a grade ahead of her, figured out a way to remain in high school for a fifth year so they could graduate together.”

(IMO this was no romantic gesture but simply contrived by Brian to keep tabs on Brittany at all times. IMO Brian subsequently ensured Brittany would be tied to him permanently by getting her pregnant right out of high school, if my math is right based on the timeline from Brian’s mother.)

“Were Danny and Marilyn ever aware of any violence in the younger Nelsons’ home?
Both gave an emphatic “No,” but then Marilyn recalled, “Well, the first couple years of marriage, when they just had a baby and they were very young, they struggled. They were just out of high school.”
“Public records indicate Brian and Brittney married in November 2008 and their first birth announcement, for son Brian II, appeared in the Tulsa World just four months later.”

It's almost like the 'ironclad' description of their relationship was a word fed to Brian's parents by Brian.
I don't want to blame his parents, and they are definitely NOT to blame, but they must come to terms with the fact that he killed his family. No parents should ever have to face the fact that their child is a mass killer of innocent children.But in this case it is something they will have to do.

 

[realanastasia]

It's almost like the 'ironclad' description of their relationship was a word fed to Brian's parents by Brian.
I don't want to blame his parents, and they are definitely NOT to blame, but they must come to terms with the fact that he killed his family. No parents should ever have to face the fact that their child is a mass killer of innocent children.But in this case it is something they will have to do.

I think initial reports cast the parents (plural) as the murderers of the six children, but given the way people have described the dynamics of the relationship between Brian and Brittany, I would not be at all surprised if we eventually learn that Brian alone murdered the rest of the family.

 

[Snoopster]

I think initial reports cast the parents (plural) as the murderers of the six children, but given the way people have described the dynamics of the relationship between Brian and Brittany, I would not be at all surprised if we eventually learn that Brian alone murdered the rest of the family.

I agree with you. This is very likely.
Although Brittany may have been involved with killing her children, I believe that if she did, Brian forced her (emotionally or physically) and then she would have been a willing victim for being killed or suicide, after being devastated.
All conjecture on my part and not based on any facts.

 

[Sincerely]

I live 10 minutes from where this occurred and can’t stop thinking about those babies. I’ve been in Florida for the past month so I haven’t been close enough to hear local chatter but plan on checking the Neighborhood app to see what’s being discussed there. What a tragic outcome. I know that these murder-suicides seem to be happening more and they are definitely more complex but this has to be the worst one I have heard of, personally. Sadly, I’m afraid we’ll see more of this as the nation and world continue to feel the financial pressures, division between one another, political chaos, lack of prioritizing needs/resources, and so on. I’m definitely not handing out excuses for this as I fully embrace personal accountability. It’s just an observation based on my own life experiences and such. Prayers to the family and loved ones, as well as first responders, LE, and the community of Broken Arrow.

 

[caradana]

One day I hope cases such as this inspire us all to ask ourselves, what relationships and dynamics among people that we know - maybe even love - are worrisome, in terms of dynamic and control and brightness of their future prospects? Who’s in trouble?

I find it reassuring to tell myself that if I had a situation such as this in my family or in my circle of friends, I’d be able to pre-spot a problem. Is that true, though, or is denial among humans (including myself) really too strong? These seem like extremely well-intentioned parents who tried in their way. I respect that and them. Another vantage point, though - no jobs, silent wife and armed lawn mowing?

What can we do, as a society, to help support people who see something to say something?

 

[Snoopster]

I live 10 minutes from where this occurred and can’t stop thinking about those babies. I’ve been in Florida for the past month so I haven’t been close enough to hear local chatter but plan on checking the Neighborhood app to see what’s being discussed there. What a tragic outcome. I know that these murder-suicides seem to be happening more and they are definitely more complex but this has to be the worst one I have heard of, personally. Sadly, I’m afraid we’ll see more of this as the nation and world continue to feel the financial pressures, division between one another, political chaos, lack of prioritizing needs/resources, and so on. I’m definitely not handing out excuses for this as I fully embrace personal accountability. It’s just an observation based on my own life experiences and such. Prayers to the family and loved ones, as well as first responders, LE, and the community of Broken Arrow.

I'm sorry this happened in your town.

Is this one of the worst? I think that's a given. I'm shocked that media hasn't been all over this. Heck, WSers haven't been all over this. They will post endlessly on cases where one child was killed, but here is a case where 6, yes SIX, children were murdered and very few people are posting. I think it's because there was no mystery by the time we heard about it and the suspect(s) was dead. It's the nature of the case. I get it.

I don't think general financial pressures explain this particular case as they have not been able to deal with their finances for many years. I think this was the result of a controlling individual who needed to be seen as in charge, yet was failing.

 

[Snoopster]

One day I hope cases such as this inspire us all to ask ourselves, what relationships and dynamics among people that we know - maybe even love - are worrisome, in terms of dynamic and control and brightness of their future prospects? Who’s in trouble?

I find it reassuring to tell myself that if I had a situation such as this in my family or in my circle of friends, I’d be able to pre-spot a problem. Is that true, though, or is denial among humans (including myself) really too strong? These seem like extremely well-intentioned parents who tried in their way. I respect that and them. Another vantage point, though - no jobs, silent wife and armed lawn mowing?

What can we do, as a society, to help support people who see something to say something?

What a great, thoughtful post.
Life is not easy.
We are all great with hindsight.
So many families have 'problem' family members, but they don't intrude into their lives. And in most cases this works out. But in some cases....

 

[Sincerely]

I'm sorry this happened in your town.

Is this one of the worst? I think that's a given. I'm shocked that media hasn't been all over this. Heck, WSers haven't been all over this. They will post endlessly on cases where one child was killed, but here is a case where 6, yes SIX, children were murdered and very few people are posting. I think it's because there was no mystery by the time we heard about it and the suspect(s) was dead. It's the nature of the case. I get it.

I don't think general financial pressures explain this particular case as they have not been able to deal with their finances for many years. I think this was the result of a controlling individual who needed to be seen as in charge, yet was failing.

Excellent points. I agree that financial pressure isn’t the key catalyst here. I believe the news of an arrest in Abby and Libby’s case came around the same time this tragedy occurred and unintentionally overshadowed such a devastating loss of SIX children. SIX! I just can’t believe it. I’m wondering if there was any involvement with the Department of Children and Families. Probably not because it sounds like the father kept the children and wife isolated. I have worked with quite a few patients with traumatic brain injury and I’ve noticed several have a fixation on something or an ideology that is just much different than most. I’m not at all sure if that played a role here as he may have been controlling, obsessively gun-toting, and so on prior to the head trauma.

 

[airportwoman]

If she DID have seizures, a head injury from abuse is also not impossible either.

I'm wondering what kind of relationship Brian's parents have had (ETA with each other) over the years, in part because of him willingly graduating a year late? I'm also guessing that they were in a LOT of denial, or they too were afraid of him.

 

[HMSHood]

A CITY ASKS 'WHY': 8 deaths in Broken Arrow being investigated as a murder-suicide | Broken Arrow Sentinel

Broken Arrow Police Chief Brandon Berryhill said the 6 children were ages 1 to 13, but he did not identify their specific ages.

basentinel.town.news

Here is what caught my attention in the link above. It is in bold.

She added that Brian often wore T-shirts with “kind of stark or dark images” and that she got a “weird” vibe from him. Welch said she believed the couple both went to college but they were currently not making the payments on the house, instead utilizing the Oklahoma Housing Finance Agency.

Welch said she learned about the fire after her ex-husband contacted her on Facebook.

“What gets me is that this happened at 4 p.m. and nobody got out, so that only points to one thing. But that’s speculation on my part," Welch told reporters Friday.

Berryhill said police hadn’t received any calls about trouble from the address in several years.

I wonder if there was domestic violence going on for years. Some were creeped out by Brian Nelson. Something heard too often.

 

[airportwoman]

I also wonder if the reason there were never any 911 calls from the house, was because they did not have a phone, or if they did, Brian always had it on him.

 

[legalmomma]

Parents in murder-suicide that killed 6 kids faced crushing debts, dad’s injury

Family of Brian of Brittney Nelson, from Oklahoma, said the couple had nearly $130,000 in debts — and the husband was suffering from crippling headaches — at the time of last week&#8217…

nypost.com

Brian previously aspired to become an actor and spent his time taking college courses instead of holding down a full-time job, while his wife was a homemaker

 

[BeckyF]

If she DID have seizures, a head injury from abuse is also not impossible either.

I'm wondering what kind of relationship Brian's parents have had (ETA with each other) over the years, in part because of him willingly graduating a year late? I'm also guessing that they were in a LOT of denial, or they too were afraid of him.

Probably denial.

 

[BeckyF]

Just random thoughts:

How on earth was he able to get school loans?

8 people living in a 980 sq.ft home 24/7 and hardly getting out would be almost unbearable. Homeschooling with crying babies?

Why did they not use birth control? I haven’t read that they had a religious affiliation that would have affected this decision. How could they feed them all?

Something is not right about the wife kind of running and hiding from people. She was keeping things hidden from people.

He sounds like a control freak.

All my opinion.