OK - Five Bever family members slain in their Broken Arrow home, 22 July 2015 *Guilty*

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Any links to support the idea the boys had issues that the parents should have been aware of and addressed?

There were very disparate reports in the press from varied neighbors. Some said the family was sociable, friendly, seemingly happy and another said the family was weird, kept to themselves and never went outside.

SO far the real question today remains what it was in the first page of this case. What on earth made these young men choose to do this heinous thing to their family?

Still nothing much in the way of facts to give me that answer. :(
 
It seems like the oldest must be matter of fact, but with lawyers, will we hear anything?

Is this a case that will go to trial or will there be a plea?

16 usually has to be deemed an adult by a judge, right? So weird that his info is out there.

If they had little interaction with others, I can see the two brothers being best friends,

At age 18, the oldest would have to advance to a job or higher schooling?

Could he handle that plan?

But why kill others as well in the community , if that was the plan?
 
tlcya said:
Any links to support the idea the boys had issues that the parents should have been aware of and addressed?

There were very disparate reports in the press from varied neighbors. Some said the family was sociable, friendly, seemingly happy and another said the family was weird, kept to themselves and never went outside.

SO far the real question today remains what it was in the first page of this case. What on earth made these young men choose to do this heinous thing to their family?

Still nothing much in the way of facts to give me that answer. :(
Click to expand...

I don't think your average children do this. And if they had little outside contact except for church? what would be the impetus to kill the family, sibs included?

I think the Menendez had lots of issues at home. Gotta look
 
tlcya said:
Any links to support the idea the boys had issues that the parents should have been aware of and addressed?

There were very disparate reports in the press from varied neighbors. Some said the family was sociable, friendly, seemingly happy and another said the family was weird, kept to themselves and never went outside.

SO far the real question today remains what it was in the first page of this case. What on earth made these young men choose to do this heinous thing to their family?

Still nothing much in the way of facts to give me that answer. :(
Click to expand...

I think even if we get facts they will never provide an answer that makes sense. :(
 
tlcya said:
Any links to support the idea the boys had issues that the parents should have been aware of and addressed?

There were very disparate reports in the press from varied neighbors. Some said the family was sociable, friendly, seemingly happy and another said the family was weird, kept to themselves and never went outside.

SO far the real question today remains what it was in the first page of this case. What on earth made these young men choose to do this heinous thing to their family?

Still nothing much in the way of facts to give me that answer. :(
Click to expand...

JMO
Nothing official from LE that I have found, although when you read enough articles and read a lot of the neighbor's comments there does become a theme (link below) that perhaps the kids were not allowed as much freedom as some other typical families.

But that in and of itself should not have been enough to make the 2 boys go on a killing spree.

Which is why IMO I think there was a combination of factors.
I dont think its going to end up being just 1 thing that drove them to do it. I think it will end up being a combination of factors.

This below is from the Broken Arrow local type news which got referred to from the Tulsa World news.

From Link:
--------------------------------------------
""The family has been described as “reclusive” or “keeping to themselves.” Some say the children weren’t allowed outside often.""

"“The only odd thing is they kept to themselves,” Jacobsen said. "

"But he said he had a gut feeling that the two older brothers craved attention and probably wanted to be seen as “a little bit more normal.”"



http://www.tulsaworld.com/communiti...cle_72805201-c380-5505-83cc-e4c058dccd4a.html
 
New article is up. Among other things, court date set for August 3.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loca...cle_65537a21-ce64-5a48-a90a-8e63eea6ec67.html

But also, comments from one of Robert Bever's former co-workers:

A former coworker of Robert Bever's at MicahTek, a Broken Arrow-based call center near the family's home, described him on Monday as being quiet and "odd" and that he had an "inflated" sense of self. He would always walk to and from work and refuse offers to be driven home, which the coworker - who did not want to be identified - considered unusual, especially because he had to walk about 20 minutes each way.

"He was so sure he would have gone to Harvard or Yale had he not been homeschooled," said the coworker, who left the company last September. "He thought he had so much potential that wasn't being reached. He definitely thought of himself as extremely intelligent."

Robert Bever, she said, once told her she was his only friend and that he would routinely say he did not want more friends because he did not like other people. However, she said he never spoke badly about his siblings, instead sharing stories about his youngest sister and how close he was to Michael Bever.

Also more interesting stuff at the link regarding his social media.
 
I still feel it just really does not seem as if they were that type of homeschoolers, considering their kids had cell phones and internet access and jobs outside the home and blogs, (even the younger boy was posting on the internet a couple years ago, so at 10yo?), and allowed to play violent ps4 games, and the student court (which we only know about because it was in the paper, I'm sure he was involved with other activities as well if he was allowed to be involved with that)... the people I've known that homeschooled their kids specifically to isolate them just don't allow their kids all those things? And there is just no way the mom would be following Dayna Martin (unless maybe just to see the 'other side'..?? but it just doesn't seem that way from how she wrote about things) if she was about controlling her kids. Sure, some neighbors described them as reclusive -I'm confident the neighbors I don't socialize with would say the same about us!- but others said they were helpful and friendly and the next door neighbor made the comment his backyard will be so much quieter since the kids were always outside playing there and according to the other girl he worked with years prior he walked to the store to buy his family presents so he definitely had independence.
 
There are many, many reasons a parent would choose to homeschool. While some of the ones suggested in this thread may be true, they are not the only reasons. I do have friends with bullied children that they removed from school. There are lots of special needs kids being homeschooled, as well. In my particular case, I had absolutely no idea that my children were being taught math and reading ONLY until the 6th grade. That "reading" basically covers how many words they can read a minute and comprehension of what they read. No great literary works, poetry, or writing. No spelling. Our local schools ditched spelling. No history, no science. My children, when I removed them from school, were all making straight As and in advanced placement and gifted classes. They scored "above average" on their standardized testing. However, they couldn't name the 7 continents, major bodies of water, or define photosynthesis on even a basic level. They'd never heard of Ponce de Leon or the Fountain of Youth. No idea who sewed the first American flag or what Paul Revere's ride was about. The list goes on and on. I loved my kids school and their teachers, but basically, their hands are tied. This "No Child Left Behind" crap basically makes them teach only what's required for standardized testing (funding.) The school was failing AYP and basically, they can't waste any time teaching what's not to be tested. They also teach how to take the standardized test. That's all they do. My children deserved so much more.

Our school still prays over the intercom and at the beginning of events like awards days and graduations (Shhhh...) so, no, it wasn't to keep them away from non-Christians. And yes....I live in the deep South and there's lots of assumptions made. We also weren't running from any different races from us. Our public school is 95%+ white, just like us. (Redneck, at that. Haha)
I love that my children have not only now learned those continents, but can name the majority of countries on the map. I was able to introduce them to Walt Whitman, Mozart, robotics, world history, foreign language and a whole world of education that they wouldn't even have had the opportunity to hear of until middle school.

Kinda off topic, but just wanted to shed some light on an unfamiliar territory to many.
 
T4Tide said:
There are many, many reasons a parent would choose to homeschool. While some of the ones suggested in this thread may be true, they are not the only reasons. I do have friends with bullied children that they removed from school. There are lots of special needs kids being homeschooled, as well. In my particular case, I had absolutely no idea that my children were being taught math and reading ONLY until the 6th grade. That "reading" basically covers how many words they can read a minute and comprehension of what they read. No great literary works, poetry, or writing. No spelling. Our local schools ditched spelling. No history, no science. My children, when I removed them from school, were all making straight As and in advanced placement and gifted classes. They scored "above average" on their standardized testing. However, they couldn't name the 7 continents, major bodies of water, or define photosynthesis on even a basic level. They'd never heard of Ponce de Leon or the Fountain of Youth. No idea who sewed the first American flag or what Paul Revere's ride was about. The list goes on and on. I loved my kids school and their teachers, but basically, their hands are tied. This "No Child Left Behind" crap basically makes them teach only what's required for standardized testing (funding.) The school was failing AYP and basically, they can't waste any time teaching what's not to be tested. They also teach how to take the standardized test. That's all they do. My children deserved so much more.

Our school still prays over the intercom and at the beginning of events like awards days and graduations (Shhhh...) so, no, it wasn't to keep them away from non-Christians. And yes....I live in the deep South and there's lots of assumptions made. We also weren't running from any different races from us. Our public school is 95%+ white, just like us. (Redneck, at that. Haha)
I love that my children have not only now learned those continents, but can name the majority of countries on the map. I was able to introduce them to Walt Whitman, Mozart, robotics, world history, foreign language and a whole world of education that they wouldn't even have had the opportunity to hear of until middle school.

Kinda off topic, but just wanted to shed some light on an unfamiliar territory to many.
Click to expand...

I'm all for learning either at home or school. Some people don't have the ability to teach their pet to roll over. My daughter does homeschool and her children are very bright and more advanced than my other grandkids that go to the regular schools around here. The only ones you hear about are the children who go bad. If a person's got a mental problem sooner or later the "spit" will hit the fan.
 
pappa rob said:
I'm all for learning either at home or school. Some people don't have the ability to teach their pet to roll over. My daughter does homeschool and her children are very bright and more advanced than my other grandkids that go to the regular schools around here. The only ones you hear about are the children who go bad. If a person's got a mental problem sooner or later the "spit" will hit the fan.
Click to expand...

If by mental problem you mean mental illness I would respectfully disagree. It's possible for a parent with a mental illness to do a great job raising his or her children without any spit ever hitting the fan.
 
Kind of off topic as well perhaps, but the Harvard comment just really rubs me the wrong way... what does homeschooling have to do with that? If anything he had more opportunity/free time to take their online free courses and get ahead that way to get in, nothing at all stopping him, but himself, ugh. I just don't understand these adults that claim they could've done this been that if only their parents hadn't stood in their way -it's just so bizarre to me to think like that although I suppose it's pretty typical for teenagers to be so melodramatic, oh my, my whole life is over now because dad wouldn't let me take the car this weekend sort of thing... I do think this sort of attitude seems more common with homeschoolers though, but maybe just because who else are they going to blame? I know I feel my high school did a *terrible* job of preparing me for college, and actually my friend that went to Harvard said the same thing about her HS.
 
T4Tide said:
There are many, many reasons a parent would choose to homeschool. While some of the ones suggested in this thread may be true, they are not the only reasons. I do have friends with bullied children that they removed from school. There are lots of special needs kids being homeschooled, as well. In my particular case, I had absolutely no idea that my children were being taught math and reading ONLY until the 6th grade. That "reading" basically covers how many words they can read a minute and comprehension of what they read. No great literary works, poetry, or writing. No spelling. Our local schools ditched spelling. No history, no science. My children, when I removed them from school, were all making straight As and in advanced placement and gifted classes. They scored "above average" on their standardized testing. However, they couldn't name the 7 continents, major bodies of water, or define photosynthesis on even a basic level. They'd never heard of Ponce de Leon or the Fountain of Youth. No idea who sewed the first American flag or what Paul Revere's ride was about. The list goes on and on. I loved my kids school and their teachers, but basically, their hands are tied. This "No Child Left Behind" crap basically makes them teach only what's required for standardized testing (funding.) The school was failing AYP and basically, they can't waste any time teaching what's not to be tested. They also teach how to take the standardized test. That's all they do. My children deserved so much more.

Our school still prays over the intercom and at the beginning of events like awards days and graduations (Shhhh...) so, no, it wasn't to keep them away from non-Christians. And yes....I live in the deep South and there's lots of assumptions made. We also weren't running from any different races from us. Our public school is 95%+ white, just like us. (Redneck, at that. Haha)
I love that my children have not only now learned those continents, but can name the majority of countries on the map. I was able to introduce them to Walt Whitman, Mozart, robotics, world history, foreign language and a whole world of education that they wouldn't even have had the opportunity to hear of until middle school.

Kinda off topic, but just wanted to shed some light on an unfamiliar territory to many.
Click to expand...

Some really good points.
 
fabvab said:
According to a local link, This was planned in advance and they were going to kill others. They wanted to kill more than the Columbine killers and become famous! How do 2 brothers become so skewed in their thinking? Link below!

http://www.newson6.com/story/29644254/sources-brothers-planned-attack-of-broken-arrow-family-in-advance
Click to expand...

This doesn't surprise me. Look at the attention mass murderers get in the media. It is non-stop 24/7 for days or even weeks. Look at what all teens put up on youtube. Horrible, horrible things yet they do it to get attention in the media.

And recently there have been several mass shooters in the news. I think they planned this so they could be notoriously known and famous or infamous actually. I see two teens with too much time on their hands.

And I also think that was the main motive why they had planned to murder everyone in their family first. They would have to get the parents out of the way first so they couldn't stand in the way off their mass murder spree. With them dead they wouldn't be able to stop it nor would they know about the ammo delivery either.

I really don't think the motive will be complex. Its never as involved as others think it is. We have seen in the news several teens who were planning mass murders and some of them have been caught before they could carry it out thank goodness. Usually teens who plan mass murders seem to target schools and they also attend public schools.

Iirc, in some of the school mass shootings the shooter/s first killed their families. With the parents dead they would be unable to stop them. Some said they killed their family first so they wouldn't have to go through the embarrassment and shame of knowing their child was a mass murderer.

I think they killed their siblings and parents to get them out of the way so they could carry out the plan to murder many others. They would leave no witnesses behind that could call the police if they left the home with firearms and ammo. And I do believe that both teens intended on murdering everyone even the two year old toddler but the police arrived and stopped it. If they had had the time they would have made sure the 13 year old was dead too.

I felt from the very start the true motive would be nonsensical. That's the way its been recently with a lot of these teen killer cases.

IMO
 
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