OK - Five Bever family members slain in their Broken Arrow home, 22 July 2015 *Guilty*

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HoneyWest said:
http://http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/happening-now-bever-brothers-in-court-for-hearing-on-broken/article_f5a8437d-ccf3-580b-bb56-591cc0add077.html
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:eek:Wow, thanks for posting this latest news article. I still don't understand how these two boys ended up this cold-hearted and brutal.

They killed their family and still don't look remorseful. :tears:

Older Bever brother wanted 'notoriety for being a serial killer,' detective testifies
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/cour...cle_f5a8437d-ccf3-580b-bb56-591cc0add077.html

The detective said Tuesday that the brothers planned two videos: one with bodies visible, the other a less "horrific" G-rated version for YouTube.
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...after the killings of their family, the brothers planned to take the family vehicle and leave Oklahoma to kill five people each at "highly populated" places.
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The detective also testified that Robert Bever said he would cut off his 2-year-old sister's head with an axe. That sister was found unharmed...
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Their 13-year-old sister, who prosecutors allege identified her brothers as her assailants, was a topic in the courtroom Tuesday as photos of her injuries were shown to the defense.

In cross-examination, the defense revealed that the 13-year-old discussed abuse in the home, remarking that her father would throw the children and verbally abuse them. The sister also apparently said that she heard her parents discuss they had been perhaps too rough on Robert and Michael when they were younger.
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http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/cour...cle_f5a8437d-ccf3-580b-bb56-591cc0add077.html

The article has been updated and contains even more horrifying info. I now have doubts as far as the younger brother, Michael, just going along with Robert, the older brother.

Cothran said the 13-year-old girl tried to go to a neighbor's home for help but ran out of energy and that Michael Bever dragged her back into the house.

Before Michael Bever did so, he strangled his sister outside until he heard a "gurgle," which he apparently took to mean she had stopped breathing, Bentz said Robert Bever told him. Robert then went back into the house to lure his father into his bedroom so he could stab him, Bentz said.
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and this

The 12-year-old, Daniel, hid in his father's home office and used Michael's phone to call the police, but he opened the door partially for Michael after being told Robert was looking for him, Russell said. She reported that Michael then stepped aside and told Robert Bever, "He's all yours," and that Robert stabbed Daniel in the stomach and shoulder.

Russell also said Michael Bever took the phone from Daniel and broke it in the kitchen.
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These boys were beyond sick.
Bentz said Robert Bever told him the brothers planned to go to a Wal-Mart after the stabbings to buy eight containers, which would be used to store their family members' bodies in their attic after they dismembered them.
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This updated article tells how the parents knew the boys were buying/collecting weapons. Apparently, the parents didn't know just how sick these boys were.

...and that he and Michael began stockpiling body armor and knives.

She told Cothran that she expressed concern about their weapons collection to their mother, but she, according to Cothran, "marked it up to 'That's just what boys do.'"

Detectives said Robert Bever worked at a Broken Arrow call center long enough to save enough money to buy the equipment and had about $1,300 left over.

The mother "said it was for attention," Cothran told Assistant District Attorney Sarah McAmis. "The dad complained that the kids were wasting their money."
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BBM
 
Yeah, just when I think I can't be more aghast, the local news releases more details and my jaw drops again. I've read so many tweets, articles, watched news reports and I just can't wrap my head around it. It sounds like these boys were incredibly naive and immature with delusions of grandeur (did they really think they would get away with killing 10 people at each stop they made in different cities??). The older one, Robert, shows zero remorse even during the hearing today. Are they both sociopaths?

The testimony at the hearing touched on some abuse in the home. I wonder what else will be coming out about that during trial. Robert said he'd been planning this since he was 13. Five years! Were the parents not taking the warning signs seriously enough? This case is so disturbing.
 
HoneyWest said:
Yeah, just when I think I can't be more aghast, the local news releases more details and my jaw drops again. I've read so many tweets, articles, watched news reports and I just can't wrap my head around it. It sounds like these boys were incredibly naive and immature with delusions of grandeur (did they really think they would get away with killing 10 people at each stop they made in different cities??). The older one, Robert, shows zero remorse even during the hearing today. Are they both sociopaths?

The testimony at the hearing touched on some abuse in the home. I wonder what else will be coming out about that during trial. Robert said he'd been planning this since he was 13. Five years! Were the parents not taking the warning signs seriously enough? This case is so disturbing.
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I find this case totally chilling and disturbing too.

The older one, Robert, had a job for awhile and some money in which he could've just moved away. Did he ever try to run away from home instead of planning to kill his family? He sounds so hungry to feel powerful in the most immature, evil way. Both boys seem to have developed with warped, delusional minds for some reason, and I'd really like to understand how that happened.

I'm interested in learning more about their upbringing. Were they kept too controlled, isolated, and sheltered, and yet were allowed to play violent video games and collect a bunch of weapons? Were they brought to church when they really needed psychological counseling and therapy?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/cour...cle_f5a8437d-ccf3-580b-bb56-591cc0add077.html

The recent news article was impressive being a thorough and chilling account of the various aspects concerning this case and the upcoming trials. I don't hear anything about this case where I live, and so I appreciate locals sharing the news and keeping me updated. Thanks.
 
There's so much to read because the hearing was held today and the local media was all over it. Here's a FB post from one of our local TV reporters:

http://www.facebook.com/LoriFullbrightNewsOn6/posts/1070758742975108

This one touches on some abuse the boys claim went on in the home. The surviving 13 year old sister in interviews with police apparently made statements alleging some abuse as well.
 
HoneyWest said:
There's so much to read because the hearing was held today and the local media was all over it. Here's a FB post from one of our local TV reporters:

http://www.facebook.com/LoriFullbrightNewsOn6/posts/1070758742975108

This one touches on some abuse the boys claim went on in the home. The surviving 13 year old sister in interviews with police apparently made statements alleging some abuse as well.
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Parents aren't perfect, so kill them? Discipline or maybe there was some abuse, but still it hardly sounds as horrible as what these two boys decided to do.

What excuse do they have for killing their innocent, trusting siblings -- Daniel, 12, Christopher, 7, and Victoria, 5 who they also brutally stabbed and murdered according to their evil plans? It's absolutely chilling and they were planning on abusing you and I and all of America next.

Cut them some slack...I don't think so.
 
I think what the surviving sister has to say about if there was actual, continual abuse in the home will carry a lot more weight than anything the brothers say now.

I'd like to add that abuse can come in many forms and sometimes the real harm isn't even physical. Also many times a non-spanked, spoiled child ends up killing their family.

At this point, I need to hear more from the sister on their home life. I really don't want to start blaming the parents, the victims, if they spanked their child on some rare occasion or made him go turn off the lights he left on.

What bugs me is that Robert was feeling powerless in that he didn't move out or even rebel very much from what I've gathered so far. He seemed to go by family rules not taking a ride home from work, and didn't rebel against that rule? His inner rebellion just seemed to make plans to destroy like in some video game. Was there any normal teen rebellion where he snuck out the house and went to a party? Yet, Robert sounds like he'd blame his parents for any slight and he held his grudges.
 
Oh, I think we're going to hear a whole lot more from CB (the sister) on their home life and several other matters during the trial. She is, after all, the most important witness; the only survivor of this mass murder. Bless her heart, a 13 year old girl.

It is apparent that the defense is going to use the isolation of the children and abuse testimony as part of their defense strategy. Of course, abuse is never an "excuse" to hack your entire family to death.

As to Robert and Michael...I don't know what to think. They didn't show any rebellious behavior by any accounts I've seen. They didn't have friends, except for each other. It's like something imploded within them and all their rage was taken out on their family, with plans to murder many more.

There are probably many many factors at play here that will never make sense to us because we're not insane.
 
Abused kids kill, non abused kids kill, spoiled kids kill, neglected kids kill, seemingly well behaved kids kill, rebellious kids kill....Im afraid the answer probably lies in a combination of things...like does the abused kid lack the intestinal fortitude to overcome his/her homelife? That makes a difference....are the sheltered kids allowed to do anything they want online, as long as they don't do it with "other kids" around, so much so that their reality is a video game or a news story on Columbine, or the popularity of another teen on youtube? That makes a difference...so many variables here. You cant point at one specific thing in most cases...Im a firm believer in evil in this world and that it will find and use those who are open to it....and those who lack the mental faculties to reason properly.....no matter background/history or family life. This was pure evil and nothing else can explain it, IMO.
 
What made these two boys have no hopes, dreams, or visions for the future other than killing their family and a whole bunch of people?

This tragedy haunts me.
 
the seeker said:
snipped....I'm afraid the answer probably lies in a combination of things...like does the abused kid lack the intestinal fortitude to overcome his/her homelife? That makes a difference....are the sheltered kids allowed to do anything they want online, as long as they don't do it with "other kids" around, so much so that their reality is a video game or a news story on Columbine, or the popularity of another teen on youtube? That makes a difference...so many variables here.
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snipped and BBM

You brought up something I've been wondering about -- I don't understand why the children were kept rather isolated from the influences of the outside world, not having outside friends, and yet were allowed the influences of online activities and to purchase and collect weapons. Outside real life friends were so important to me as a teen and I can't imagine no independent social life during those years.
 
Curious Me said:
snipped and BBM

You brought up something I've been wondering about -- I don't understand why the children were kept rather isolated from the influences of the outside world, not having outside friends, and yet were allowed the influences of online activities and to purchase and collect weapons. Outside real life friends were so important to me as a teen and I can't imagine no independent social life during those years.
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Because the parents were some kind of weird control freaks, in my opinion.
 
HoneyWest said:
Oh, I think we're going to hear a whole lot more from CB (the sister) on their home life and several other matters during the trial. She is, after all, the most important witness; the only survivor of this mass murder. Bless her heart, a 13 year old girl.

It is apparent that the defense is going to use the isolation of the children and abuse testimony as part of their defense strategy. Of course, abuse is never an "excuse" to hack your entire family to death.

As to Robert and Michael...I don't know what to think. They didn't show any rebellious behavior by any accounts I've seen. They didn't have friends, except for each other. It's like something imploded within them and all their rage was taken out on their family, with plans to murder many more.

There are probably many many factors at play here that will never make sense to us because we're not insane.
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Just how much controlling was going on --it's definitely something that will probably come out in trial.

Prayers for the sisters that managed to survive. I hope CB, the sister, can help us understand the family dynamics better.

Were all the children taught to avoid and shun people outside their own family? I know they were part of some church. Weren't the children encouraged or allowed to have any friends at all outside the family, not even friends from their church?
 
Just want to add that though I grapple to understand how this tragedy happened, and I do feel some pity for children brought up in an environment of control and isolation, I don't feel it should lessen the consequences for either boy. It's too late now, IMO.

Both boys made their decisions and I'm not sure either should ever be allowed out in society. Once they chased their mother, and young siblings, down the hall to stab them dozen of times and had enough hatred to plan on killing complete strangers for notoriety then they made their big lifetime decisions.

Maybe I'll jump back on the fence at a later date, but for now, this is my sad opinion.

:cow:
 
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/cour...cle_f5a8437d-ccf3-580b-bb56-591cc0add077.html

On cross-examination by defense attorney Cheryl Ramsey, Cothran testified that the 13-year-old had said her father would throw the children and verbally abuse them. The sister also said she heard her parents discuss having perhaps been too rough on Robert and Michael when they were younger, Cothran said.


Ramsey also cross-examined witnesses regarding Robert Bever's allegations that his parents beat him and told him he was worthless, which included an account of his mother telling him it was "hilarious" that her slaps left marks on his face.

Bentz testified that Robert Bever told him he did not believe that killing — which he called "a hobby" — was a bad thing.
"He was laughing or chuckling on several occasions," Bentz said of his interview with Robert Bever at the Broken Arrow Police Department. "He appeared calm and relaxed and mildly excited when telling the story (of the killings)."
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I think it is clear by now that Robert displays psychopathic tendencies and behavior.

There is no (substantiated) definitive evidence for how sociopathy is formed. We will probably eventually find it is some combination of genetic predisposition or comorbidity and lack of (or grossly distorted) key interactions with mother. The nature vs nurture debate is still heavy in scientific venues, but if the allegations of abuse are true and it started very young, that mixed with isolation and possibly other factors (like confusing religious messages) tends to develop issues. From the crazed perspective of a young male in this set of circumstances, revenge eliminates a problem, provides a sense of relief, control and freedom. This WAS their plan to run away.

Here is an interesting article on this topic, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html
 
Curious Me said:
Just want to add that though I grapple to understand how this tragedy happened, and I do feel some pity for children brought up in an environment of control and isolation, I don't feel it should lessen the consequences for either boy. It's too late now, IMO.

Both boys made their decisions and I'm not sure either should ever be allowed out in society. Once they chased their mother, and young siblings, down the hall to stab them dozen of times and had enough hatred to plan on killing complete strangers for notoriety then they made their big lifetime decisions.

Maybe I'll jump back on the fence at a later date, but for now, this is my sad opinion.

:cow:
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I agree. I hate to be so closed minded, I don't like to think of myself that way, I never want to be someone who says "DEATH PENALTY!" without hearing the whole story, but in this case, this crime is so awful. If these kids were abused, that is terrible, there's no excuse. But the nature of this crime...if the boys were mad at their parents, it'd be one thing. If they 'only' killed their parents, that would be one story (it would be awful enough). But they killed their brothers and little sister, they had plans to CUT up the bodies and store them in the attic, and they wanted to go out and kill MORE people.

This was not a "I snapped because my dad was hitting me with a switch and I lost it and killed him" situation. This was a methodical, planned, plans-stored-on-the-computer attack, stabbing their parents and siblings.

I do not believe there is any hope for rehabilitation for these two.
 
I know, I don't like to be judgmental, but we follow so many cases here and we need to admit to our own opinions.

Personally I don't think either boy should receive the death penalty taking into consideration that something in the family dynamics and their entire upbringing might have prohibited these boys exhibiting any normal amount of teen rebellion or any chance to get psychological counseling. It's obvious they both had serious mental issues to decide on such drastic measures to leave home and get away from family.

I just don't want them out in society for a long, long time if ever.
 
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