OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

[huxley72]

Wesley J Duffield was convicted of first degree murder in the death of Jimmy Bryan.

On June 17 of this year he was once again denied parole

http://www.tahlequahdailypress.com/...cle_5747a12a-cca1-5f07-b7a7-438ffea4bb2e.html

Here is his mug shot

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Oklahoma/Cherokee-County-OK/Wesley-J-Duffield.26242717.html

He was 22 or 23 at the time he killed Jimmy Bryan, shortly after the GS murders.

Jesse Duffield was also arrested as a material witness to the murder

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/11883711/thelawtonconstitutionokaugust41977/

I suppose Duffelds fingerprint, DNA, or shoe size were not matches to the GS murders right?

 

[huxley72]

I also wonder if maybe a counselor heard some thiings in the night that night that froze them in fear? Maybe they were to terrified themselves to go outside the tent to see what was happening and didn't want to say anything about it. I am just glad we all are still seeking and searching, I think Denise, Lori, and Michelle are very much alive in others to seek out who is responsible.

 

[Ambitioned]

He even broke into the home of a woman policeman to rob her. She awoke and pulled a gun on him. Many still wonder if he didn't have other plans that night, before she stopped him cold.

He was a dangerous, evil, cruel sociopath, not a folk hero.

That's why I carry. I want to be prepared in the event of a break-in. As for being a folk hero, no he was not. I'm part Cherokee so it bothers me and my family of course that the CN would dare lend support to a convicted man who raped two pregnant women and left them to die. I agree he made the choice to do the things he did. There's no one to blame but himself.

As for the Duffields, that's always been in the back of my mind; the possibility one of them was the accomplice.

 

[Betty P]

I suppose Duffelds fingerprint, DNA, or shoe size were not matches to the GS murders right?

It would be very interesting to know.

I also just found a photo of JCP in the 1972 LG High School Yearbook. He's kind of a small guy with small feet who likes to wear athletic shoes. He's wearing Adidas in the photo.

 

[Betty P]

That's why I carry. I want to be prepared in the event of a break-in. As for being a folk hero, no he was not. I'm part Cherokee so it bothers me and my family of course that the CN would dare lend support to a convicted man who raped two pregnant women and left them to die. I agree he made the choice to do the things he did. There's no one to blame but himself.

As for the Duffields, that's always been in the back of my mind; the possibility one of them was the accomplice.

Yes, I was reading about GLH's defense earlier, Isaac's remarks. I've always really liked Wilma Mankiller(sp?), lot of respect for her. I think they just got bamboozled by Isaacs.

Reading more about the Duffields. They seem to have a really violent & criminal history in that family. The sexual crimes are pretty startling. Jimmy Bryan's family seemed ok, at least the dad seemed like a good guy. Jimmy himself was just 16 when he was killed. WD, who killed Jimmy, was 23, so he was hanging out with a pretty wild crowd. Would love to find out who the others were in that group. Supposedly, they gave police quite a chase and Jesse Darryl Duffield pulled a .22 on the police. I assume they had access to a car, I wonder what kind it was? I think of that car sitting parked outside Camp Scott that Ranger Ben saw when he left to pick up his daughter at work. He said it was gone when he came back.

ETA: I've also been wondering about Mr. Bryan's comment saying Jimmy said he knew one of the girls that were killed. I checked and the Bryans, like the Duffields, lived near Tahlequa. That's about 70+ miles from Tulsa. How would a 16 yo kid know any of those girls when they lived so far away? It doesn't make sense. Maybe he saw a local girl being interviewed on tv, someone from Locust Grove or something.

 

[huxley72]

It would be very interesting to know.

I also just found a photo of JCP in the 1972 LG High School Yearbook. He's kind of a small guy with small feet who likes to wear athletic shoes. He's wearing Adidas in the photo.

Contact the Mayes County Sheriff Department and see if comparisons have been done. Do you think they would tell you the truth?

 

[Betty P]

Contact the Mayes County Sheriff Department and see if comparisons have been done. Do you think they would tell you the truth?

I doubt they would tell, but they really should check.

 

[HoneyWest]

Yeah nothing suspicious about a guy dieing of a heart attact at 35. Isaacs didnt care that Hart died, he had made his name and people act like he was such a good lawyer. Joe Pesci from My Cousin Vinny could have won that case. All circumstantial evidence and no physical evidence, it wasn't even close. The jury deliberated 4 hours but said they knew their decision in 5 minutes. Prosecution screwed this one up but then LE made sure Hart paid for the crime. The sad thing is no closure and no justice. I wonder if there was a really good suspect that was related to someone at the camp or former employee of the camp. The Magic whatever would not have wanted that out, they still accept no blame. And why did the Farmer and Milner family file a lawsuit and the Guse family not? Was money offered to not file suit? Or did they just not deem it justifiable? They should have filed a lawsuit against the Mayes County Sheriff's Department if they were so sure Gene Hart did it. Because they were the ones who he escaped from and hadn't caught in 4 years.

Regarding the civil suit, the Guses, especially Mr. Guse had spent a lot of time with LE doing active searches during those 9 or 10 months. They developed relationships with much of LE and some of the people from the Magic Empire Council in Tulsa, and did not feel that they were to blame for the murders. They took no part in the lawsuit and stopped giving interviews long, long ago.

 

[adeedra]

Did Locust Grove had a high school back then?
Was there any chance that some kids were from that neighbourhood were going to school in Tulsa?

I also just found a photo of JCP in the 1972 LG High School Yearbook. He's kind of a small guy with small feet who likes to wear athletic shoes. He's wearing Adidas in the photo.

How could you know know what kind of shoes he liked to wear?
All high school kids are wearing sneakers cause they have to.

 

[Betty P]

Did Locust Grove had a high school back then?
Was there any chance that some kids were from that neighbourhood were going to school in Tulsa?

How could you know know what kind of shoes he liked to wear?
All high school kids are wearing sneakers cause they have to.

Yes, there was and still is a high school in Locust Grove. The town is pretty far from Tulsa, about 50 miles. Seems pretty unlikely any kids from Locust Grove were going to school in Tulsa or it's suburbs. The boy who said he knew a girl in the tv coverage of the GS murders, Jimmy Bryan, actually lived in Tahlequa, which is south of Locust Grove. Tahlequa is over 70 miles from Tulsa.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/L...6089900c965760!8m2!3d36.2000936!4d-95.1677401


OTOH, Locust Grove and Tahlequa are not too far apart (about 25 miles), so it's possible that kids/young adults from both areas hung out together. Tahlequa is a bigger town/city (population today is over 16,000), so was probably the closest big city for Locust Grove kids to visit when they wanted to go to movies, clubs, etc. It would depend on whether they had access to a car.



The 1972 yearbook photo I looked at had a group of young men, including JCP. He was the only one in the group of about 15 who was wearing athletic shoes, though by 1977, there were probably more young people wearing them. Just an observation, something to consider.

 

[Betty P]

Regarding the civil suit, the Guses, especially Mr. Guse had spent a lot of time with LE doing active searches during those 9 or 10 months. They developed relationships with much of LE and some of the people from the Magic Empire Council in Tulsa, and did not feel that they were to blame for the murders. They took no part in the lawsuit and stopped giving interviews long, long ago.

I read an interview with Mr. Guse done during the time after the murders. It's over at the CampScottMurders.com web site. He seemed like a nice man who was adamant about getting out there and helping with the search. He was very grateful to the people who volunteered to search and talked of how difficult it was - very hot, difficult terrain, etc.

While reading the article I also found one that has a general map of the Camp Scott area with the location of the 3 caves showing. Not great, but best I've seen so far. Go to page 38 at this link for the article

http://nebula.wsimg.com/beb4f8cbf8d...tion=0&alloworigin=1#page=38&zoom=auto,31,-99

 

[jon70]

Ranger Ben Woodward was the person who managed Camp Scott on a full time basis. He lived there all year in a house with his wife and kids. He'd been working there for 3 yrs, IIRC. In his pre-trial testimony for the GLH trial, he said that several days before the arrival of the campers, he had 3 people come out to help put up the tents. It took them 3 or 4 days. One was a local LE officer, another was a local man and his wife, friends of the LEO. The other was someone who lived nearby who was known to them all. Ranger Ben knew most people in town and was well acquainted with local LE, including sheriff deputies and a OK Highway Patrol officer who lived nearby.

All were questioned. LIke everyone else Ranger Ben took a poly and submitted fingerprints, etc.

Link to pre-trial transcripts, list of witnesses, etc.

http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/GLH Trial - list of witnesses.pdf

http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/PreTrialVolume2.pdf


There were no strange cars that came into the campground that night. The killers had to reach the crime scene on foot, hiking through some pretty dense forest and underbrush for quite a distance. At night, with little light.

imo the killer(s) hid in woods until time to do their thing

 

[adeedra]

There were no strange cars that came into the campground that night. The killers had to reach the crime scene on foot, hiking through some pretty dense forest and underbrush for quite a distance. At night, with little light.

Actually most likely they didn't. Dogs were tracking him/them back to that half-vacant house belonged to the guy who got burglarized before murders. He didn't lived there all the time, he had another house (in Tulsa?) and those who killed the girls must knew that.
And not so many troubles with darkness if they started right before the dusk - as they probably did.

 

[HoneyWest]

Yes, there was and still is a high school in Locust Grove. The town is pretty far from Tulsa, about 50 miles. Seems pretty unlikely any kids from Locust Grove were going to school in Tulsa or it's suburbs. The boy who said he knew a girl in the tv coverage of the GS murders, Jimmy Bryan, actually lived in Tahlequa, which is south of Locust Grove. Tahlequa is over 70 miles from Tulsa.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/L...6089900c965760!8m2!3d36.2000936!4d-95.1677401


OTOH, Locust Grove and Tahlequa are not too far apart (about 25 miles), so it's possible that kids/young adults from both areas hung out together. Tahlequa is a bigger town/city (population today is over 16,000), so was probably the closest big city for Locust Grove kids to visit when they wanted to go to movies, clubs, etc. It would depend on whether they had access to a car.



The 1972 yearbook photo I looked at had a group of young men, including JCP. He was the only one in the group of about 15 who was wearing athletic shoes, though by 1977, there were probably more young people wearing them. Just an observation, something to consider.

My guess is that teenagers wouldn't bother coming to hang out in Tulsa...Tahlequah would be where it's at for Locust Grove kids. It's a college town, it's beautiful, a lake nearby, and a huge Native American population (it's the capitol of the Cherokee Nation).

 

[Hatfield]

It's a good thing Carla and Dee were mature enough to take a deep breath, get their panic under control and realize they had to:

1 Tell the other counselors, but not panic the other girls

2 Make sure everyone was safe and accounted for

3 Send one person to go get help

At that time, DE didn't know exactly what happened, just that Carla had told her there was a body on the trail. They didn't know if other girls had been attacked in their tents, too. At the time, they didn't realize there were three bodies there, not just one. Michelle Guse and Lori Farmer were zipped up inside their bags, which were just piled alongside the path. So doing a fast head count let them know if other girls were in trouble or missing. Each counselor went to opposite ends of the tents to work towards the middle.

When the empty tent was found, Carla ran to get help, met the nurse on the path to the showers, told her so she could go to check the bodies while Carla continued on to get the camp director. Camp director got the ranger and they all drove down there. At some point DE walked to see the bodies, then ran to another unit to alert the other counselors.

Can you imagine the trauma, chaos, etc. if they had allowed those little girls to go down the path to see poor,dead DM laying there, partially nude, bound, legs spread apart? One of the counselors, DE or SE became physically ill when she saw them, had to go away to vomit and take some deep breaths to recover.

Overall, the counselors managed it as well as could be expected. What more did you want them to do?

ETA: Many years ago, someone posted a photo on one of the Girl Scout Murder web sites of DM's body, uncovered as probably looked when Carla found her. It was a horrible shocking photo and it was obvious she was very likely deceased.

Also, why would it be more important to make sure others saw the bodies instead of checking to make sure the other campers were safe?

I think it must have been the way the article I read reported it because it was not all summed up nicely like you stated. It did not have all that extra information.

The article I read which I cannot find now made it sound like the person did not really know if the body they saw was really dead or not and one of the first things the original person did was to go back and start counting girls.

Like I had said that may have even been the protocol if something happened. I agree it is really good they did not cause a panic.

 

[huxley72]

It's a good thing Carla and Dee were mature enough to take a deep breath, get their panic under control and realize they had to:

1 Tell the other counselors, but not panic the other girls

2 Make sure everyone was safe and accounted for

3 Send one person to go get help

At that time, DE didn't know exactly what happened, just that Carla had told her there was a body on the trail. They didn't know if other girls had been attacked in their tents, too. At the time, they didn't realize there were three bodies there, not just one. Michelle Guse and Lori Farmer were zipped up inside their bags, which were just piled alongside the path. So doing a fast head count let them know if other girls were in trouble or missing. Each counselor went to opposite ends of the tents to work towards the middle.

When the empty tent was found, Carla ran to get help, met the nurse on the path to the showers, told her so she could go to check the bodies while Carla continued on to get the camp director. Camp director got the ranger and they all drove down there. At some point DE walked to see the bodies, then ran to another unit to alert the other counselors.

Can you imagine the trauma, chaos, etc. if they had allowed those little girls to go down the path to see poor,dead DM laying there, partially nude, bound, legs spread apart? One of the counselors, DE or SE became physically ill when she saw them, had to go away to vomit and take some deep breaths to recover.

Overall, the counselors managed it as well as could be expected. What more did you want them to do?

ETA: Many years ago, someone posted a photo on one of the Girl Scout Murder web sites of DM's body, uncovered as probably looked when Carla found her. It was a horrible shocking photo and it was obvious she was very likely deceased.

Also, why would it be more important to make sure others saw the bodies instead of checking to make sure the other campers were safe?

The counselors are easy targets about what happened immediately after and looking at the testimony it was just strange that is all. It was a far different time than now with our instant messaging and instant news. After reading the testimony I don't think Carla stated that she saw a body, she said she saw something. DE stated she was not told about a body and didn't even look at the body(bodies) while stopping SE from screaming. Everything from the time of the initial discovery was to keep quiet so no children were to find out. They were being so considerate of the others in the tents sleeping while not really seeing if DM was alive or where the other two girls were. Just strange is all I was saying. On another note do you thnk DM was posed so the troop would walk by and see her? What would have been the path of the unit to go to breakfast? Who would have knowledge of the path taken? It was the first day of camp so would it have been a former caretaker, employee, someone who knew the routines.

 

[Betty P]

The counselors are easy targets about what happened immediately after and looking at the testimony it was just strange that is all. It was a far different time than now with our instant messaging and instant news. After reading the testimony I don't think Carla stated that she saw a body, she said she saw something. DE stated she was not told about a body and didn't even look at the body(bodies) while stopping SE from screaming. Everything from the time of the initial discovery was to keep quiet so no children were to find out. They were being so considerate of the others in the tents sleeping while not really seeing if DM was alive or where the other two girls were. Just strange is all I was saying. On another note do you thnk DM was posed so the troop would walk by and see her? What would have been the path of the unit to go to breakfast? Who would have knowledge of the path taken? It was the first day of camp so would it have been a former caretaker, employee, someone who knew the routines.

If you recall from the transcripts, there was a road way that ran from the main area on the south side of Kiowa, past Quapaw Unit & crime scene, ending at somewhere at the edge of the counselor's tent/Kiowa. Recall Carla ran down this road to get the camp director and encountered the nurse on her way. CW continued on to alert Barbara Day. Nurse, Barbara Day and Ranger Ben all drove down to the crime scene. Later LE drove to the same spot. The same road was normally used by the Kiowa GS group when walking to meals and other main area activities. As you may have read in the testimony, there were many footpaths around the camp, at least one that ran to the north side of Kiowa towards the main road. There aren't any maps available that show all these footpaths, but if you recheck Carla's testimony, she describes the footpath she took to get the girls out of Kiowa and to the Great Hall.

Not sure any of that is relevant. Check Dee Elder's testimony as well as Susan Emery's. They all saw the body. One of them picked up a sleeping bag and realized from the weight that one of the kids was inside, then set it down again. Nurse was on scene and checked for signs of life.

If you were to put together a timeline, you would see the discovery, alerting camp director, calling of LE, removal of girls, etc. all took place in a relatively short period of time. When putting together a timeline, keep in mind, the counselors didn't have cars with them. They had to walk and run to get help, about half a mile each way.

IIRC, from the time Carlas alarm went off at 6 am, she got dressed hiked down the path, discovered the body, checked tent, ran half a mile to Barbara Day - Day was at the crime scene in her car by 6:20 - 6:30

 

[Betty P]

There's a lot more interesting stuff to discuss in the Tulsa Tribune article I linked below. It discusses the evidence found in the 3 different caves and shows their location. Did you know the boot style footprint found in the tent was also found at one of the caves and at the location of the store burglary in Locust Grove? All matched.

http://cdm15020.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16063coll1/id/355


Link goes to the webstie for the Tulsa Library, documents are in PDF.

 

[huxley72]

If you recall from the transcripts, there was a road way that ran from the main area on the south side of Kiowa, past Quapaw Unit & crime scene, ending at somewhere at the edge of the counselor's tent/Kiowa. Recall Carla ran down this road to get the camp director and encountered the nurse on her way. CW continued on to alert Barbara Day. Nurse, Barbara Day and Ranger Ben all drove down to the crime scene. Later LE drove to the same spot. The same road was normally used by the Kiowa GS group when walking to meals and other main area activities. As you may have read in the testimony, there were many footpaths around the camp, at least one that ran to the north side of Kiowa towards the main road. There aren't any maps available that show all these footpaths, but if you recheck Carla's testimony, she describes the footpath she took to get the girls out of Kiowa and to the Great Hall.

Not sure any of that is relevant. Check Dee Elder's testimony as well as Susan Emery's. They all saw the body. One of them picked up a sleeping bag and realized from the weight that one of the kids was inside, then set it down again. Nurse was on scene and checked for signs of life.

If you were to put together a timeline, you would see the discovery, alerting camp director, calling of LE, removal of girls, etc. all took place in a relatively short period of time. When putting together a timeline, keep in mind, the counselors didn't have cars with them. They had to walk and run to get help, about half a mile each way.

IIRC, from the time Carlas alarm went off at 6 am, she got dressed hiked down the path, discovered the body, checked tent, ran half a mile to Barbara Day - Day was at the crime scene in her car by 6:20 - 6:30

Susan Emory said she screamed when she saw the body. DE ran to her and told her to be quiet and stated that CW never said there was a body. And that she ran to SE screaming and covered her mouth and told her to be quiet. And then ran until she saw the nurse and said " It's awful there are 3 girls dead" and I don't know why I said that because I didn't even look or know they were dead. That is from DE's testimony, so she didn't see anything according to her.

 

[jon70]

Yes, at 14 we are so naive and don't know what truly goes on in the world. Most of us at that age are still innocent, we don't imagine hurting people in horrific ways (some 14 year olds do, though!) It never occurred to us that a smiling adult could be planning our death. Kids are so vulnerable. I've studied homicides since my college days over 20 years ago. I've always shared true stories (warnings) with my kids about people, as well as danger from freak accidents, to be mindful and careful, not take huge risks, not be adrenaline junkies, practice wisdom and caution. I have a special discernment and can read people very quickly, I warn my kids to stay away from certain people who raise the hair on my neck.

My aunt didn't write it. First of all, she didn't have to ... she would tell us directly. The letter was mailed to her home with no return address. Second, she was terrified about it. My aunt was a hippie free spirit who loved us exploring and getting grubby and dirty. She wanted us outside. In fact, all she would have had to do with me is tell me not to dare go up on that hill into the woods, and I would have listened, I've always loved my Aunt Sherry. No. She didn't mind us exploring the hill and woods. I'm not exactly sure she knew we crossed I-75 to see Aunt Em, that may not have been okay. There were only a couple of neighbors on the entire road, far apart. She did go to their houses to ask them about the letter but no one knew what she was talking about, and they would have been at work when we were out wandering in the early afternoons. Everyone we knew was shocked and terrified about the letter and felt that it was a direct threat to "little girls". I will add, we only climbed that hill and went into the woods maybe three times, on random separate occasions. It was a long, tiresome hike for us, so we only did it when we really wanted to and there was nothing else to do that interested us. So three times ... before my aunt got the letter. Who was in the woods that last time, when we heard the strange noises?

could Aunt Em have written the note to keep ya'll from the hwy.?