OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

[HoneyWest]

That's the thing - I don't know. I just think it's worth looking into. It could have been a crime of opportunity, but everything I've read suggests a familiarity with the grounds and camp operations that a mere stranger wouldn't have.

Well, there were a total of 30 camp councilors, all teenage girls or maybe just turned 20. I do not think all 30 were there at one time. I can't imagine it would be any of them - these girls were still Girl Scouts themselves, very active in the organization. Everyone has been vetted and vetted. Now, Hart's mother did live within 1 mile of the camp so he was no stranger at all to it or the area.

I don't know, either. This case has been on my mind for 40 years and I guess I've decided that I'll never know and I'll have to be OK with that.

 

[wfgodot]

I know this comes up over and over again, but everyone with an interest in the case should make every effort to read Michael and Dick Wilkerson's book, 'Someone Cry for the Children.' It's spookily atmospheric and, while its conclusion is not my own, it does leave the reader room to think. In fine, it's one of the best true-crimers I've ever read -- and I have read plenty, and also followed this case since the horrors of 1977.

I believe the failure to solve this case led to OSBI's downfall as a respected law enforcement agency and that that failure still haunts the efficacy of LE in Oklahoma today -- its shadows longer than the sunsets at Camp Scott one awful night 40 years ago this June 13th.

 

[MaryG12]

Does anyone know if Camp Scott had gates at the entrance that were closed/locked during the night of the murders?

Not that it would mean anything I suppose the perp(s) could have entered prior to any gates being closed if there were any. Think I read somewhere that Camp Garland, the Boy Scout Camp, had gates at the entrance but I don't know if they have been there since the 1970's.

 

[HoneyWest]

Yes, the entrance had a wide gate and was locked with a padlock. The camp wasn't really enclosed, though. One could get through the front gate even if it was locked, but it did keep cars out.

 

[ValIsYerPal]

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie and have a great interest in this case. My maiden name is Hart and I am a Cherokee from Oklahoma. I was brought up in Locust Grove, Tahlequah, Tulsa, Claremore and the surrounding towns. My dad told me that Gene was his uncle. His sister, my aunt, told me that he would come around and molest her as a child. I understand that Gene was acquitted but my dad always said that the people in Locust Grove helped him. As far as DNA testing, would my own DNA help in this case? I don't have any idea how that works. I lived with my aunt when I was a teenager and the Hart family was engaged in severe child sexual abuse of her and her two brothers. I would appreciate any ideas about how I could help or how I could get started researching this case in a more detailed way. I have always been aware of this case and just tried to ignore it but now that I'm older, I am more interested in this awful part of my family history. I feel that we Hart owe help to the families, if we possibly can provide it.

Sorry for rambling. Thank you for reading!!!

 

[HoneyWest]

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie and have a great interest in this case. My maiden name is Hart and I am a Cherokee from Oklahoma. I was brought up in Locust Grove, Tahlequah, Tulsa, Claremore and the surrounding towns. My dad told me that Gene was his uncle. His sister, my aunt, told me that he would come around and molest her as a child. I understand that Gene was acquitted but my dad always said that the people in Locust Grove helped him. As far as DNA testing, would my own DNA help in this case? I don't have any idea how that works. I lived with my aunt when I was a teenager and the Hart family was engaged in severe child sexual abuse of her and her two brothers. I would appreciate any ideas about how I could help or how I could get started researching this case in a more detailed way. I have always been aware of this case and just tried to ignore it but now that I'm older, I am more interested in this awful part of my family history. I feel that we Hart owe help to the families, if we possibly can provide it.

Sorry for rambling. Thank you for reading!!!

Hi, and welcome to Websleuths!

For researching the case, there is a very good comprehensive website which has tons of reading material, photos, etc. Check out girlscoutmurders.com. There are also some interesting old videos on youtube as well.

 

[Betty P]

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie and have a great interest in this case. My maiden name is Hart and I am a Cherokee from Oklahoma. I was brought up in Locust Grove, Tahlequah, Tulsa, Claremore and the surrounding towns. My dad told me that Gene was his uncle. His sister, my aunt, told me that he would come around and molest her as a child. I understand that Gene was acquitted but my dad always said that the people in Locust Grove helped him. As far as DNA testing, would my own DNA help in this case? I don't have any idea how that works. I lived with my aunt when I was a teenager and the Hart family was engaged in severe child sexual abuse of her and her two brothers. I would appreciate any ideas about how I could help or how I could get started researching this case in a more detailed way. I have always been aware of this case and just tried to ignore it but now that I'm older, I am more interested in this awful part of my family history. I feel that we Hart owe help to the families, if we possibly can provide it.

Sorry for rambling. Thank you for reading!!!

Welcome! Thanks for sharing your family's information about Hart. After reading "Someone Cry for the Children", I had the impression that Hart was a very dangerous sexual predator. The nature of his previous crimes (rapes and attempted murder) was very serious. The fact that he was bold enough to attack, kidnap and rape two women at the same time put him in a special category.

I'm very sorry your family members were victimized by Hart. Very sorry and hope your aunt and others are doing well.




As for helping with the case, you should probably contact the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation or the FBI.

https://www.ok.gov/osbi/

https://www.fbi.gov/

 

[AGettler]

and he left those two women to die slowly and the citizens of that area united behind him. Absolutely despicable.

 

[wfgodot]

and he left those two women to die slowly and the citizens of that area united behind him. Absolutely despicable.

A complete canard, that assumption.

 

[AGettler]

A complete canard, that assumption.

what assumption? and if there is an unfounded assumption about dying slowly (the town did unite behind him if you know anything about the case), then pfffft, that does not lesson for one second his crimes

 

[wfgodot]

what assumption? and if there is an unfounded assumption about dying slowly (the town did unite behind him if you know anything about the case), then pfffft, that does not lesson for one second his crimes

bbm

All I can say is, read above. I've taught kids from Locust Grove and more from Tahlequah, where my best friend lived for years; I have Cherokee blood; I've read this case from the first articles in 1977 in the Tulsa Trib and the World, and have had copies of the book by the two OSBI agents and read it when it was published; I lived and taught college in a town in NE OK for 15 years, itself home to the Inter-Tribal Council (Nine Tribes). I have known and talked to tribal chiefs -- Wilma Mankiller and many others.

Could I be wrong about GLH's innocence? Of course. But it's not for lack of background, or from underestimating the intelligence and the goodness of the people of the area.
.
.

 

[HoneyWest]

and he left those two women to die slowly and the citizens of that area united behind him. Absolutely despicable.

What two women are you talking about? The ones he picked up at the Fondalite Club in Tulsa & raped? They didn't die...

 

[AGettler]

What two women are you talking about? The ones he picked up at the Fondalite Club in Tulsa & raped? They didn't die...

Correct, they did not die. In Someone Cry For The Children, how the women were left was described. Going on memory here - they were tied around the neck and the other end of the cord was around their ankles and if they moved their legs, the rope around their necks tightened. Thus, they were left to die slowly.

 

[missgulfsouth]

I've studied homicides for over 20 years, I never heard about this case until last week, and have been reading everything I can find ever since. There is a thesis written by a camper who was there that night - "What Fear is Like", by Amy C. Sullivan (2013). I read it in 2 days, my local library doesn't carry any of the books written, unfortunately.

I have interviewed a notorious serial killer, so you can believe it when I say that this is one of the scariest cases I've ever come across. The photographs are real-life scenes from Friday the 13th.

SO many things about this case make my blood boil. Here's a rundown, although I'm sure I could come up with more:

- Men seen in the camp, counselors not taking it seriously.
- The threatening note being discounted.
- The location of that tent. Was it typically used as a punishment or isolation tent? I can't imagine feeling safe there, or wanting my child in that arrangement.
- The suspect being heralded as a local hero, and protected by his own for 4 years as a fugitive, simply because he was NA ... despite the fact that he was an ADMITTED sadistic rapist / attempted murderer.
- GLH's own mother (enabler) provided the contraband saw which enabled his escape from jail.
- Girls reported hearing guttural moans, footfall on the leaves, screaming, and general odd noises FOR HOURS, beginning around 2:00 am, but no one intervened.
- Denise's body temperature was in the 70's range, meaning she hadn't been deceased for very long when she was found at 6:00 am. Someone was busy for 4 HOURS(!) with no one investigating the sounds.
- Parents weren't notified whether their children were dead or alive, they waited at the buses to find out if their children would get off or not. Horrible protocol, totally unnecessary, such lack of compassion.
- The shape-shifting, dark medicine aspect just ticks me off. Such an utter distraction from the pure evil that was inflicted on June 13, 1977. Native American or not, whoever did this was disgusting, revolting and depraved ... unhinged and unholy. I'm thankful there is a judgement day and eternity to pay.

I believe there are two monsters responsible. I also believe that Oklahoma is totally corrupt ... but judgement awaits that, too.

There was no justice for these girls and their poor families.

 

[missgulfsouth]

* Above : Doris Denise Milner*

 

[missgulfsouth]

Correct, they did not die. In Someone Cry For The Children, how the women were left was described. Going on memory here - they were tied around the neck and the other end of the cord was around their ankles and if they moved their legs, the rope around their necks tightened. Thus, they were left to die slowly.

Yes, they were left to asphyxiate themselves. Hogtied. Disgusting man (modsnip)

 

[HoneyWest]

Correct, they did not die. In Someone Cry For The Children, how the women were left was described. Going on memory here - they were tied around the neck and the other end of the cord was around their ankles and if they moved their legs, the rope around their necks tightened. Thus, they were left to die slowly.

I see what you mean. Yes, what you say is true. Even Hart admitted his guilt for this.

 

[HoneyWest]

I've studied homicides for over 20 years, I never heard about this case until last week, and have been reading everything I can find ever since. There is a thesis written by a camper who was there that night - "What Fear is Like", by Amy C. Sullivan (2013). I read it in 2 days, my local library doesn't carry any of the books written, unfortunately.

I have interviewed a notorious serial killer, so you can believe it when I say that this is one of the scariest cases I've ever come across. The photographs are real-life scenes from Friday the 13th.

SO many things about this case make my blood boil. Here's a rundown, although I'm sure I could come up with more:

- Men seen in the camp, counselors not taking it seriously.
- The threatening note being discounted.
- The location of that tent. Was it typically used as a punishment or isolation tent? I can't imagine feeling safe there, or wanting my child in that arrangement.
- The suspect being heralded as a local hero, and protected by his own for 4 years as a fugitive, simply because he was NA ... despite the fact that he was an ADMITTED sadistic rapist / attempted murderer.
- GLH's own mother (enabler) provided the contraband saw which enabled his escape from jail.
- Girls reported hearing guttural moans, footfall on the leaves, screaming, and general odd noises FOR HOURS, beginning around 2:00 am, but no one intervened.
- Denise's body temperature was in the 70's range, meaning she hadn't been deceased for very long when she was found at 6:00 am. Someone was busy for 4 HOURS(!) with no one investigating the sounds.
- Parents weren't notified whether their children were dead or alive, they waited at the buses to find out if their children would get off or not. Horrible protocol, totally unnecessary, such lack of compassion.
- The shape-shifting, dark medicine aspect just ticks me off. Such an utter distraction from the pure evil that was inflicted on June 13, 1977. Native American or not, whoever did this was disgusting, revolting and depraved ... unhinged and unholy. I'm thankful there is a judgement day and eternity to pay.

I believe there are two monsters responsible. I also believe that Oklahoma is totally corrupt ... but judgement awaits that, too.

There was no justice for these girls and their poor families.

BBM: No, it was just another tent, not used for isolation.

Hart wasn't heralded as a hero, any further than his being a very good athlete and football player for his high school. I think the media has over the years really stretched this "hero" thing. He did have a very large extended family and many, many friends who probably did help him out after he escaped jail, but it was not the entire town.

This isn't quite true. All parents knew the girls were alive and well when waiting for the buses to bring the girls back to Tulsa. Lori's, Michelle's, and Denise's (she did go by Denise) parents were notified of their deaths, but were not told how they died at first.

Being born and raised in NE Oklahoma, I cannot agree with you that Oklahoma is totally corrupt. There are pockets of corruption, mostly in small towns, but most of us are good people. I can understand your shock reading about this crime for the first time, but it's been part of my life since I was 9 years old. I think about it mostly without emotion now and logically, I agree there were probably two perpetrators. I still don't have any feelings about whether one was Gene Leroy Hart or not.

 

[MaryG12]

I've been searching for an affordable copy of "Someone Cry for the Children" online, no luck, our county library system has temporarily suspended their interlibrary loan service which doesn't help, either.

Does this book document the ownership of the camp grounds (Scott family)?

Also, I guess what bothers me is the fact the murder of these three girls took place the first night at camp.

Under the Legacy link at www.girlscoutmurders.com the slasher film "Friday the 13th" (1980) is mentioned although there is no established influence of these murders in the making of the film. I first saw this movie when I was 12, with my parents, on HBO (cable tv) back in the day. In the story, the murders of the camp counselors take place during the first night at camp. Also - the murderer (before Jason Voorhees) is his mother Pamela (there are elements of "Psycho" at play in the film; the mother talks to herself using her son's voice). Considered groundbreaking for its time because prior to that movie there really were no other female axe-murderer figures in slasher films. "Black Christmas" (1974) was considered the first serial-slasher movie of its kind (and was actually pretty good).

I know it has been suggested that one of the individuals involved in the murder of these three Girl Scouts was a female, and MOO here was more than one person involved. I know Victor Miller, writer of "Friday the 13th" has stated the Girl Scout murders did not inspire the story. It could be entirely coincidental. My apologies for writing so much about the films here. I will keep hunting down a copy of "Someone Cry for the Children" that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[HoneyWest]

I've been searching for an affordable copy of "Someone Cry for the Children" online, no luck, our county library system has temporarily suspended their interlibrary loan service which doesn't help, either.

Does this book document the ownership of the camp grounds (Scott family)?

Also, I guess what bothers me is the fact the murder of these three girls took place the first night at camp.

Under the Legacy link at www.girlscoutmurders.com the slasher film "Friday the 13th" (1980) is mentioned although there is no established influence of these murders in the making of the film. I first saw this movie when I was 12, with my parents, on HBO (cable tv) back in the day. In the story, the murders of the camp counselors take place during the first night at camp. Also - the murderer (before Jason Voorhees) is his mother Pamela (there are elements of "Psycho" at play in the film; the mother talks to herself using her son's voice). Considered groundbreaking for its time because prior to that movie there really were no other female axe-murderer figures in slasher films. "Black Christmas" (1974) was considered the first serial-slasher movie of its kind (and was actually pretty good).

I know it has been suggested that one of the individuals involved in the murder of these three Girl Scouts was a female, and MOO here was more than one person involved. I know Victor Miller, writer of "Friday the 13th" has stated the Girl Scout murders did not inspire the story. It could be entirely coincidental. My apologies for writing so much about the films here. I will keep hunting down a copy of "Someone Cry for the Children" that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure those Friday the 13th movies should even been included on his website. For whatever reason, he did though. I also have read that the movies have nothing to do with the murders at Camp Scott.

"Someone Cry for the Children" is hard to find. My mother had a 1st edition copy and I did read it years ago, but she lost it! I'm trying to remember if there was much information about the Scotts in the book, but I'm thinking no. Maybe a passing comment about how the 1st acres were given to the Girl Scouts, but that's probably all if mentioned at all. There was also a documentary of the same name that Johnny Cash narrated. It was very good and was on YouTube for a long time, but sometime during the last year or so (?) has been removed.