OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

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Could someone point me in the right direction to locate previous discussion of the spirits, demons and their church? I don't want to launch into a tirade of thoughts and info if it's already been done. Is this something NS has explained? I've done research on the Vineyard Movement and the 7th Day Adventist church in Muskogee.

A little bit here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150472&page=23.

Some discussion down toward the bottom of this page:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9995234&highlight=vineyard#post9995234.

And something interesting about Sherilyn's spiritual upbringing here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10011848&postcount=866.

That's all I'm aware of about Vineyard on here. There's more discussion about the Adventist church they attended scattered throughout the earlier threads re: the demons and spirits they were reportedly seeing.

Turned up a little more on that topic this week, but IRL is demanding my attention right now, so BRB.
 
In speaking about the whole spirits and demons issue I thought maybe the official notes of LE may be helpful to any who are wanting to look at what was said.. Below is the words written by LE detailing what pastor, Gary Brandon told LE about what he was told directly by Bobby and Sherilyn..

**the above quote is transcribed directly from the notes as seen and read on the OETA special that aired 9/16/2011..(link to YouTube video upthread)

Here's the other one, from KR of the Muskogee branch of their church:

http://youtu.be/p5v52oKZSMw?t=5m23s

Sheri said in meeting that she could speak to the dead and her daughter had the same power. Bobby told GB that he was afraid of the demons and was looking at high-powered shells online, including that he felt that wife and daughter safe with him.

What bothers me about these two statements is that they were not hand-written by the witnesses themselves in their own words. These men were interviewed over the phone and whatever they said was summarized and written down by a LEO. Well, I'm assuming their words were summarized. I mean, I'm sure these guys didn't just get on the phone and speak those exact words and then hang up. Surely there was more said. And so that raises, in my mind at least, the possibility that some of the finer details may have been lost in translation.

Here's a post by mtrooper about another church member who claimed to be present during Bobby's conversation with the pastor:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5880634&postcount=26.

The third party during the spirit conversation is true. NS emailed KMJ, mentioned in this article, about the Jamisons. KMJ admitted she was there during the conversation. NS forwarded their email conversation to me.

And in Post #804 here:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/oklahoma-city-ok/TAG238Q0RV9NNM07K/p39

NS said that the woman, KMJ, told her that she was present and that Bobby said they were hearing "something" on the roof. And he also asked GB what his thoughts were about demons.

It's interesting, though I don't know what to make of it, that GB has never had anything further to say on the subject, even dodging the Disappeared folks after he apparently consented to an interview.

I'm not totally discounting that these statements may be true in whole or in part, but still have my doubts that the picture they paint is a fair representation of the Jamisons' thoughts and/or state of mind just before they went missing.
 
I agree OkieGranny that these are IMO just "notes" written by whomever was speaking with the pastor, etc about the demons/spirits.. and I agree that much could easily have been lost in translation, misinterpretated, misconstrued, etc... along with IMO I must say that I, personally did not care for the attitude of Sheriff Brooks(his gum smacking the whole time) in the OETA piece...not at all did I care for his attitude..

Of course its jmo, but I really got the impression that as far as Brooks goes he had his mind made up on what was his opinion about the case and it down right angered me TBH!

It was murder-suicide and he snidely remarked about the Mexican mafia being the only other possibility.. just made my stomach turn at his snide demeanor and really acted as tho those were the only two real possibilities on the table..

well of course the Mexican mafia possibility looks ridiculous and therefor made it seem as tho the only other possibility being the murder-suicide would be the only logical answer as to what happened to the family.. The way he stated as fact that both Bobby and Sherilyn were both meth heads that used DAILY!.. BS BROOKS, BS!..

I TELL YOU HE REALLY ANGERED ME!..
 
Smooth (or anyone)....can I please get a link to Brooks' interview...I've never seen this and would love to watch it.

I rarely post here but follow along as best I can, so thank you for all the hard work you guys are doing on this thread. This case has bothered me from day one! I'm kicking myself now because I had kept extensive notes on this case for about a year or so and then life interrupted and I tossed them out a couple years back when it seemed like this case was destined to stay cold. That should teach me to 1) keep notes electronically....and 2) never lose faith.

Granny....great job!
 
I agree OkieGranny that these are IMO just "notes" written by whomever was speaking with the pastor, etc about the demons/spirits.. and I agree that much could easily have been lost in translation, misinterpretated, misconstrued, etc... along with IMO I must say that I, personally did not care for the attitude of Sheriff Brooks(his gum smacking the whole time) in the OETA piece...not at all did I care for his attitude..

Of course its jmo, but I really got the impression that as far as Brooks goes he had his mind made up on what was his opinion about the case and it down right angered me TBH!

It was murder-suicide and he snidely remarked about the Mexican mafia being the only other possibility.. just made my stomach turn at his snide demeanor and really acted as tho those were the only two real possibilities on the table..

well of course the Mexican mafia possibility looks ridiculous and therefor made it seem as tho the only other possibility being the murder-suicide would be the only logical answer as to what happened to the family.. The way he stated as fact that both Bobby and Sherilyn were both meth heads that used DAILY!.. BS BROOKS, BS!..

I TELL YOU HE REALLY ANGERED ME!..

Oh, you're totally preaching to the choir, Smooth. The nicest thing I can say about that guy is that he was a sorry excuse for a sheriff. The only reason he ever was sheriff is that he was appointed to finish out the term after Beauchamp quit. Whoever decided Brooks was the right man for the job, I don't know WTH they were thinking but, thankfully, the voters of Latimer County disagreed.

Smooth (or anyone)....can I please get a link to Brooks' interview...I've never seen this and would love to watch it.

I rarely post here but follow along as best I can, so thank you for all the hard work you guys are doing on this thread. This case has bothered me from day one! I'm kicking myself now because I had kept extensive notes on this case for about a year or so and then life interrupted and I tossed them out a couple years back when it seemed like this case was destined to stay cold. That should teach me to 1) keep notes electronically....and 2) never lose faith.

Granny....great job!

Thanks! Here you go:

http://www.oeta.tv/component/video/2479.html
 
It took me forever to finally get on here. I have had so many questions and ideas after lurking on here for over a year now, so I'm just going to throw a few out there. I have worked in the mental health field for many years as a registered nurse with specialized training in Dual Diagnosis Treatment (DDT) which is, basically, a psychotic disorder with a substance abuse disorder. I also have relatives and many acquaintances that have been or currently are involved with meth.

1. How long has Sherilyn been diagnosed as Bipolar? There are many questions as to whether meth was a factor in this family. There are so many missing details in this case. Did Sherilyn's mother ever say if she had this as a child or if there were any other family members who had Bipolar tendencies? What I'm getting at with this is that in many cases, the Bipolar disorder may have come along after the use of methamphetamine, especially chronic use. Also, Bobby's dad was a methamphetamine user according to the O.O.P. that was filed by Bobby Jr. With all the business dealings and involvement of Bobby with his father and the fact that his mother and father were together for so long, has anyone not suggested or thought that they were all involved with meth? Supposedly none was found in the house, but didn't Mom clean the house up before it was searched? Why on earth would she do that??? Knowing that she may be "cleaning" evidence that could find her missing family??!! She was probably very afraid of Bobby Sr. because she may have been just as involved as he was. Perhaps ties to the Mexican Mafia (or maybe the Redneck Mafia) is not that farfetched with the whole family involvement with the businesses and money ties down in OKC. The border that was living with them had or has been a convicted meth manufacturer. Why would they let him stay in their home?? I will say that Bobby and Sherilyn's entire situation -house, behaviors, possessions, etc. paints the perfect picture of meth to me. Actually have a lot more to add because I've waited so long, lol, but that's enough for now. Go easy on me!
 
Welcome to posting at WS, salgtrn.

Agreed on "the perfect picture of meth" thing.
 
Another "duh" moment, another sideways picture. I swear, I'm like the absent-minded professor sometimes.

Here's the map I was looking for, to try to match coordinates from the HRD clue log. Right on the same page with the search map I posted earlier:

http://okmpjamisons.weebly.com/photos.html

367d563f-de54-4409-b4dd-796c6244b5b1_zps0d30c0d7.png


Am off to study the coordinates on Google Earth to see if anything looks like it means anything.
 
Another "duh" moment, another sideways picture. I swear, I'm like the absent-minded professor sometimes.

Here's the map I was looking for, to try to match coordinates from the HRD clue log. Right on the same page with the search map I posted earlier:

http://okmpjamisons.weebly.com/photos.html

367d563f-de54-4409-b4dd-796c6244b5b1_zps0d30c0d7.png


Am off to study the coordinates on Google Earth to see if anything looks like it means anything.

They may be coordinates to that specific map. Before decimalization, latitude was measured in degrees, minutes and seconds, 60 minutes to a degree, 60 seconds to a minute. A degree was about 69 miles, a minute about 1.15 miles, and a second just over 100 feet. It is hard to tell, but there is a scale on the map. If that large bar is one mile, the coordinates are too big to be one minute.
 
The picture of Madyson on the mountain bothers me immensely. There is a lot of discoloration on her face. Appears to be bruising and reddened area, and/or dirt on her chin and left jaw area. She appears to be very gray around the mouth area. Her eyes look puffy and most of face is red, like she maybe had been crying. (they don't look that puffy in the many other pictures of her). That is not a smile on her face and those are not happy eyes, according to the other many pictures with her smiling. The position of her arms is not normally a relaxed stance, but more of a protective stance, or possibly being cold. The ends of her fingers on the right hand are either really dirty or scraped, or could just be the lighting. Is her shirt really too small or does it just look that way because her pants are hanging down on her bottom -they are under her hip bones so I would think her bottom was close to showing. According to the other pictures it looks like the parents kept her well clothed. If it was a little chilly that day, which I think it was, why would they have her take her long sleeved pink jacket off?? Also noticed the top of her head -the hair looks broken or cut only in that one particular area (like maybe someone grabbed her by the hair there.) Sorry to be so blunt about some of this, but I figure it's better to just throw it out there.
 
The picture of Madyson on the mountain bothers me immensely. There is a lot of discoloration on her face. Appears to be bruising and reddened area, and/or dirt on her chin and left jaw area. She appears to be very gray around the mouth area. Her eyes look puffy and most of face is red, like she maybe had been crying. (they don't look that puffy in the many other pictures of her). That is not a smile on her face and those are not happy eyes, according to the other many pictures with her smiling. The position of her arms is not normally a relaxed stance, but more of a protective stance, or possibly being cold. The ends of her fingers on the right hand are either really dirty or scraped, or could just be the lighting. Is her shirt really too small or does it just look that way because her pants are hanging down on her bottom -they are under her hip bones so I would think her bottom was close to showing. According to the other pictures it looks like the parents kept her well clothed. If it was a little chilly that day, which I think it was, why would they have her take her long sleeved pink jacket off?? Also noticed the top of her head -the hair looks broken or cut only in that one particular area (like maybe someone grabbed her by the hair there.) Sorry to be so blunt about some of this, but I figure it's better to just throw it out there.

As I understand it, it was actually warm that day, during the day.
 
Need some help again, Sleuthers! I believe this is a page from the statement given to LE by DC, the neighbor on Panola Mountain who said he saw and spoke with the Jamisons both days they were up there. Grabbed the clearest screen shot I could off the OETA video and was able to transcribe some but not all of it, and now my eyeballs are spinning in my head. Can anyone please help fill in the blanks?

Screenshot2013-12-06at51745PM_zpsabc4f818.png




http://youtu.be/p5v52oKZSMw?t=5m48s

In thread #10 for Brittney Wood, some sleuthers were doing some pretty neat things to make a blurry image of a letter more legible. I think it starts about here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9997600&highlight=letter#post9997600


... and I think goes on for a while -- I think on into the current thread, #11. Y'all might want to take a look over there. Was pretty amazing really!
 
Another "duh" moment, another sideways picture. I swear, I'm like the absent-minded professor sometimes.

Here's the map I was looking for, to try to match coordinates from the HRD clue log. Right on the same page with the search map I posted earlier:

http://okmpjamisons.weebly.com/photos.html

367d563f-de54-4409-b4dd-796c6244b5b1_zps0d30c0d7.png


Am off to study the coordinates on Google Earth to see if anything looks like it means anything.

OkieGranny - if you can't read the coordinates accurately enough from your topo map to take a close look on Google Earth, you might want to look at post #135 where I responded to your post with the clues. You put together a really great timeline.
 
They may be coordinates to that specific map. Before decimalization, latitude was measured in degrees, minutes and seconds, 60 minutes to a degree, 60 seconds to a minute. A degree was about 69 miles, a minute about 1.15 miles, and a second just over 100 feet. It is hard to tell, but there is a scale on the map. If that large bar is one mile, the coordinates are too big to be one minute.

I was able to pull up a grid on Google Earth, and it helped me place the yellow lines that correspond to the grid on the search map as closely as I could manage, according to geographical features (the white lines are halfway between the yellow ones just to help me gauge where to place the markers). Then I placed red markers at each set of coordinates according to my best judgment. So I want to emphasize that these are the approximate locations of the HRD hits:

Screenshot2013-12-07at53909PM_zps8fa82f38.png


There are two identical sets of coordinates on the clue log so there are nine HRD alerts listed but only seven locations are marked in this image. The blue outline roughly corresponds to the shaded area on the search map, which may designate an aerial search area, as someone suggested earlier, but I cannot say for certain. The yellow marker is the location where the truck was found. Here's the search map again, for reference:

7d89ba33-fc80-4362-8224-466909fc7db3_zps11030419.jpg


It looks like the other clearing just down the hill from the well site was used as a staging area where the searchers fanned out from.

One more thing I want emphasize that none of this necessarily means anything because, as Oriah pointed out, we do not know of any evidence collected to support these HRD alerts. Really, I'm just satisfying my own curiosity here.
 
In thread #10 for Brittney Wood, some sleuthers were doing some pretty neat things to make a blurry image of a letter more legible. I think it starts about here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9997600&highlight=letter#post9997600

... and I think goes on for a while -- I think on into the current thread, #11. Y'all might want to take a look over there. Was pretty amazing really!

Ooh, thanks, I will definitely check into that!

OkieGranny - if you can't read the coordinates accurately enough from your topo map to take a close look on Google Earth, you might want to look at post #135 where I responded to your post with the clues. You put together a really great timeline.

Thanks! I tried your GPS coordinates, Mapman, but they placed the hits about a mile north of the truck, across the top of the mountain and down the other side. Almost to the 78 line on the search map. How did you come up with those?
 
Ooh, thanks, I will definitely check into that!



Thanks! I tried your GPS coordinates, Mapman, but they placed the hits about a mile north of the truck, across the top of the mountain and down the other side. Almost to the 78 line on the search map. How did you come up with those?

Some maps, in particular military maps, use a coordinate system other than the familiar lat/long system. One is called the UTM grid, and it is rectangular grid that makes it easier to measure distances on a map than lat/long. It was pretty clear that the coordinates you found couldn't be a complete description because only four digits does not give enough accuracy to pinpoint a spot. I figured that they were just using the last four digits of a standard grid of some kind. When I tried using the numbers as the last four digits of a decimal lat/long description it didn't work because the points were not in the area where we are looking. Geographical locations in one rectangle of the UTM grid in our search area is described as 15S 29****E 387****N where the asterisks could be many different numbers. All of the numbers could change with position, but for small changes in distance only the last four numbers would change. I believe that the searchers were using only the last four digits as kind of a shorthand notation because the other numbers were known and would not change within the area they were searching. The searchers described the location of clue C7 as 9843/7565, and I believe that the actual complete UTM description is 15S 299843E 3877565N. This point on the surface of the earth can also be described latitude 35.020940 North, Longitude 95.193840 West, or commonly 35.020940, -95.193840. I just made the conversions for all of the clues in the post because most people use lat/long descriptions with Google Earth.

On my topo these points are clustered together a little over a mile north of the truck and a little less than a half mile to the east and they are not far from a road. If you believe that my guess as to the meaning of the numbers is incorrect, please let me know and I'll think some more on it.
 
Some maps, in particular military maps, use a coordinate system other than the familiar lat/long system. One is called the UTM grid, and it is rectangular grid that makes it easier to measure distances on a map than lat/long. It was pretty clear that the coordinates you found couldn't be a complete description because only four digits does not give enough accuracy to pinpoint a spot. I figured that they were just using the last four digits of a standard grid of some kind. When I tried using the numbers as the last four digits of a decimal lat/long description it didn't work because the points were not in the area where we are looking. Geographical locations in one rectangle of the UTM grid in our search area is described as 15S 29****E 387****N where the asterisks could be many different numbers. All of the numbers could change with position, but for small changes in distance only the last four numbers would change. I believe that the searchers were using only the last four digits as kind of a shorthand notation because the other numbers were known and would not change within the area they were searching. The searchers described the location of clue C7 as 9843/7565, and I believe that the actual complete UTM description is 15S 299843E 3877565N. This point on the surface of the earth can also be described latitude 35.020940 North, Longitude 95.193840 West, or commonly 35.020940, -95.193840. I just made the conversions for all of the clues in the post because most people use lat/long descriptions with Google Earth.

On my topo these points are clustered together a little over a mile north of the truck and a little less than a half mile to the east and they are not far from a road. If you believe that my guess as to the meaning of the numbers is incorrect, please let me know and I'll think some more on it.

Okay, I get where you're coming from. Sort of, lol. You obviously know a lot more about mapping than I do.

I'm just looking at the numbers along the top and side of the search map and, since they match the beginning of each coordinate and the spaces in between those numbers are divided into tenths, I figure that a coordinate of 9843/7565 is 4.3 tenths east of the vertical 98 line, and 6.5 tenths north of the horizontal 75 line. Just simple grid coordinates and not a shortened form of GPS coordinates. The grid coordinates interpreted in this way fall within or near the shaded area on the search map.

For the moment, I feel comfortable with my coordinates, but I do try to keep an open mind and welcome further discussion. If you still think I'm wrong, let me have it and maybe I'll change my mind, lol.
 
Ooh, thanks, I will definitely check into that!



Thanks! I tried your GPS coordinates, Mapman, but they placed the hits about a mile north of the truck, across the top of the mountain and down the other side. Almost to the 78 line on the search map. How did you come up with those?

I looked at your newest map, and it indeed seems to be based on a different grid than my guess which does significantly moves the points. I'll look into it further.
 
Okay, I get where you're coming from. Sort of, lol. You obviously know a lot more about mapping than I do.

I'm just looking at the coordinates along the top and side of the search map and, since they match the beginning of each coordinate and the spaces in between those numbers are divided into tenths, I figure that a coordinate of 9843/7565 is 4.3 tenths east of the vertical 98 line, and 6.5 tenths north of the horizontal 75 line. Just simple grid coordinates and not a shortened form of GPS coordinates. The grid coordinates interpreted in this way fall within or near the shaded area on the search map.

For the moment, I feel comfortable with my coordinates, but I do try to keep an open mind and welcome further discussion. If you still think I'm wrong, let me have it and maybe I'll change my mind, lol.

OkieGranny – I was able to zoom in on your map and I believe that I have figured out the problem. The coordinates that I gave you appear to be correct. It is possible that you are not correctly reading the somewhat confusing map. Look at searchers clue C7 which the searchers described as 9843/7565 which I believe are shorthand for the UTM description 15S 299843E 3877565N.

The “7” in the number 7565 of the searchers description corresponds to the second “7” in the 3877565N number of the UTM description.

If you look at the numbers on the right side of your map near the word “Blue” you will see the numbers 3877000. The “38” is very small and the last three zeros are also very small. These numbers are related to the 3877576N number in the above UTM call. I believe that you might have assumed that the 7 in the searchers number corresponded to the first “7” in the 387700 UTM number on the map rather than the second “7”. Remember, the last large number on the right side of the map corresponds to the first number of the searchers 4-digit number and the remaining three digits of the searcher's number fill the place holders shown by the remaining tiny zeros on the map.

On the map the next number above 3877000 will be 3878000 which represents a difference of 1000 meters. 3877565 will fall about halfway between these two numbers on the map. Please let me know it things still don't seem to work and I'll take another look.
 
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