OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

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OkieGranny, Thank You!
You are doing such amazing work.

Is there any way you could place a marker on your HRD or search map to show where the remains may have been found so we can see how close the search and the hits were? I see Smokestack on the map.
 
Up thread there was discussion about the possibility it may not be the Jamisons even though remains of three were found in close proximity. I mean what are the odds three missing, three bodies? I just came across a case where that actually happened.

The case is known as the Missing Trio wherein three girls went missing from a mall in Fort Worth TX back in 1974. These girls have never been found and the case remains unsolved. Years later the bodies of three girls were found but they were not of these girls.


In 1975, skeletal remains of a girl and a woman were found near San Antonio. For a time the families thought the wait was over, but those bones had nothing to do with this case.

In March 1976, a seer called Fort Worth police from Hawaii to say that the girls' bodies could be found near an oil well. For some reason, searchers focused on the area around Rising Star, a small community near Abilene, but nothing was found - except oil wells.

That same year, an oil-company employee discovered human bones in a bog near Houston. The swampy landscape was dotted with oil derricks. The discovery led nowhere until the spring of 1981, when more bones were discovered in that same bog and a massive search was launched. Skeletal remains of three girls were found - but not these girls.


http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/index.aspx

ETA Here is link to WS thread on this case.
OK OK - Fawn Abell, 15, & Rozlin Abell, 18, Bethany, 25 July 1985 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
Up thread there was discussion about the possibility it may not be the Jamisons even though remains of three were found in close proximity. I mean what are the odds three missing, three bodies? I just came across a case where that actually happened.

The case is known as the Missing Trio wherein three girls went missing from a mall in Fort Worth TX back in 1974. These girls have never been found and the case remains unsolved. Years later the bodies of three girls were found but they were not of these girls.


In 1975, skeletal remains of a girl and a woman were found near San Antonio. For a time the families thought the wait was over, but those bones had nothing to do with this case.

In March 1976, a seer called Fort Worth police from Hawaii to say that the girls' bodies could be found near an oil well. For some reason, searchers focused on the area around Rising Star, a small community near Abilene, but nothing was found - except oil wells.

That same year, an oil-company employee discovered human bones in a bog near Houston. The swampy landscape was dotted with oil derricks. The discovery led nowhere until the spring of 1981, when more bones were discovered in that same bog and a massive search was launched. Skeletal remains of three girls were found - but not these girls.


http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/index.aspx

I can't agree more! Until they confirm they are the Jamisons, those remains could belong to any combination of individuals. I thought about it later and since there is a lot of reported meth use, they could even be some teens (runaways) varying in ages who decided to get high while camping and Overdosed.
 
I believe Mapman is correct regarding the coordinates-UTM
 
OkieGranny – I was able to zoom in on your map and I believe that I have figured out the problem. The coordinates that I gave you appear to be correct. It is possible that you are not correctly reading the somewhat confusing map. Look at searchers clue C7 which the searchers described as 9843/7565 which I believe are shorthand for the UTM description 15S 299843E 3877565N.

The “7” in the number 7565 of the searchers description corresponds to the second “7” in the 3877565N number of the UTM description.

If you look at the numbers on the right side of your map near the word “Blue” you will see the numbers 3877000. The “38” is very small and the last three zeros are also very small. These numbers are related to the 3877576N number in the above UTM call. I believe that you might have assumed that the 7 in the searchers number corresponded to the first “7” in the 387700 UTM number on the map rather than the second “7”. Remember, the last large number on the right side of the map corresponds to the first number of the searchers 4-digit number and the remaining three digits of the searcher's number fill the place holders shown by the remaining tiny zeros on the map.

On the map the next number above 3877000 will be 3878000 which represents a difference of 1000 meters. 3877565 will fall about halfway between these two numbers on the map. Please let me know it things still don't seem to work and I'll take another look.

I'm placing markers on the map for your coordinates. It's pretty much the same pattern but very tightly clustered, all within about 200 feet. Give me a few more minutes and I'll have that image ready.

OkieGranny, Thank You!
You are doing such amazing work.

Is there any way you could place a marker on your HRD or search map to show where the remains may have been found so we can see how close the search and the hits were? I see Smokestack on the map.

Here's one I did a while back showing an arc of pink markers about 2.7 miles to the northwest of the truck.

Screenshot2013-11-23at121729PM_zps2558112b.png
 
Up thread there was discussion about the possibility it may not be the Jamisons even though remains of three were found in close proximity. I mean what are the odds three missing, three bodies? I just came across a case where that actually happened.

The case is known as the Missing Trio wherein three girls went missing from a mall in Fort Worth TX back in 1974. These girls have never been found and the case remains unsolved. Years later the bodies of three girls were found but they were not of these girls.


In 1975, skeletal remains of a girl and a woman were found near San Antonio. For a time the families thought the wait was over, but those bones had nothing to do with this case.

In March 1976, a seer called Fort Worth police from Hawaii to say that the girls' bodies could be found near an oil well. For some reason, searchers focused on the area around Rising Star, a small community near Abilene, but nothing was found - except oil wells.

That same year, an oil-company employee discovered human bones in a bog near Houston. The swampy landscape was dotted with oil derricks. The discovery led nowhere until the spring of 1981, when more bones were discovered in that same bog and a massive search was launched. Skeletal remains of three girls were found - but not these girls.


http://www.missingtrio.com/TRIO/index.aspx

ETA Here is link to WS thread on this case.
OK OK - Fawn Abell, 15, & Rozlin Abell, 18, Bethany, 25 July 1985 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Of course, we don't know for sure, until the remains are ID'd. But in the case you cited, the first set of remains were a woman and a girl, not 3 girls, and were found hundreds of miles from where the girls went missing. The remains of the three girls found 6 years later were found even further away. In this case, the remains were found less than 3 miles away. The chances of these remains not being the Jamisons are unlikely imo.
 
OkieGranny, I just wanted to thank you for the fine job you are doing here.
 
Okay, here's Mapman's coordinates in relation to the truck's location:

Screenshot2013-12-07at112633PM_zpsced53cd9.png


I clear off the map occasionally because new info develops or it just gets too cluttered, so I had to recreate the arc of pinks markers 2.7 miles northwest of the truck, just for perspective:

Screenshot2013-12-07at112714PM_zps36601aff.png


And, lest we forget, none of this necessarily means anything. We do not know of any evidence collected as a result of any of the HRD alerts.
 
As far as finding the remains at a campsite-nothing official, just lots of rumor When I mention the possibility some meth users being camped out and overdosed, I don't mean sleeping bag and a tent type camping-more like hiding out
 
OkiGranny - What is the marker #8 southeast of the truck on the satellite map in your post #235?
 
I've been following this case on and off over the years, and I'm very impressed by all the work everyone posting here has done and is doing, especially OkieGranny! Thank's so much for the comprehensive timeline, and all the work you put into it!

I've been thinking about this case every day since the Jamison's were found, and with the description of the terrain, distance from truck, and the remains found together, I don't think the Jamison's died of getting lost/exposure. I believe that they were ambushed while leaving. It sounds like this area is sparsley populated, and any outsiders would be noticed pretty fast. This also sounds like an area one not familiar with would get lost easily, as the Jamison's did when first trying to find the property they went to look at. I think that they were ambushed by someone or more than one person who had to know this area quite well. I would think that where the Jamison's were found would also be in an area that one would have to know quite well. I also think that whoever it was that killed the Jamison's would have to be someone who besides having intimate knowledge of the area wouldn't draw undue attention from locals the way an outsider would. I think whoever it was that killed the Jamison's, either lives in the area, or did at one time, and likely still has ties to Panola mountain and the surrounding areas. This same person or people also had to know the Jamison's would be up there that day. Who would this point too?

I do think this was premeditated, though I've thought of the possibility that maybe it was some person/people maybe on meth or maybe not, who went up there for some other reason, came upon the Jamison's as they were leaving, and ambushed, abducted and killed the Jamison's for unknown reasons, possibly paranoia, robbery, or a combination of these and unknown motives. I personally discount this theory, but I remember following the case of Taylor Placker and Skyla Whittaker, the two girls viciously gunned down near Weleetka in June 2008. For the longest time, it was thought by many that an Indian guy in a white pick up truck was the killer because of a composite sketch and description LE had put out. Later, Kevin Sweat was arrested for their murders, along with the murder of his girlfriend, Ashley Taylor. So, I thought I'd just throw that out there.

Who in the area where the Jamison's were last seen, and eventually found, knows the area intimately, wouldn't have drawn undue/unwanted attention to themselves, and would have a motive(s) for abducting and killing the Jamison's, if this was indeed premeditated? If this was not premeditated, same questions apply!

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it!

Thank's to all here for the excellent work on this very disturbing and haunting case.
 
I've been following this case on and off over the years, and I'm very impressed by all the work everyone posting here has done and is doing, especially OkieGranny! Thank's so much for the comprehensive timeline, and all the work you put into it!

I've been thinking about this case every day since the Jamison's were found, and with the description of the terrain, distance from truck, and the remains found together, I don't think the Jamison's died of getting lost/exposure. I believe that they were ambushed while leaving. It sounds like this area is sparsley populated, and any outsiders would be noticed pretty fast. This also sounds like an area one not familiar with would get lost easily, as the Jamison's did when first trying to find the property they went to look at. I think that they were ambushed by someone or more than one person who had to know this area quite well. I would think that where the Jamison's were found would also be in an area that one would have to know quite well. I also think that whoever it was that killed the Jamison's would have to be someone who besides having intimate knowledge of the area wouldn't draw undue attention from locals the way an outsider would. I think whoever it was that killed the Jamison's, either lives in the area, or did at one time, and likely still has ties to Panola mountain and the surrounding areas. This same person or people also had to know the Jamison's would be up there that day. Who would this point too?

I do think this was premeditated, though I've thought of the possibility that maybe it was some person/people maybe on meth or maybe not, who went up there for some other reason, came upon the Jamison's as they were leaving, and ambushed, abducted and killed the Jamison's for unknown reasons, possibly paranoia, robbery, or a combination of these and unknown motives. I personally discount this theory, but I remember following the case of Taylor Placker and Skyla Whittaker, the two girls viciously gunned down near Weleetka in June 2008. For the longest time, it was thought by many that an Indian guy in a white pick up truck was the killer because of a composite sketch and description LE had put out. Later, Kevin Sweat was arrested for their murders, along with the murder of his girlfriend, Ashley Taylor. So, I thought I'd just throw that out there.

Who in the area where the Jamison's were last seen, and eventually found, knows the area intimately, wouldn't have drawn undue/unwanted attention to themselves, and would have a motive(s) for abducting and killing the Jamison's, if this was indeed premeditated? If this was not premeditated, same questions apply!

That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it!

Thank's to all here for the excellent work on this very disturbing and haunting case.
Great post that I, personally very much agree with all of the points made..

I, too strongly opine that the Jamison family's death is not a result of having gotten lost and died from exposure.. IMO there are many reasons that IMO just do not at all mesh with that being what happened here..

Most important point made in the above post is about the killer(s) responsible for this family's death very much are familiar with this particular area, the people that live in the area, and the lay of the land wrt this area's terrain/forest..

Just to name a couple of the points that we know of, that IMO substantiate this opinion, are those such as the evident fact of the people that live in this area very, very much appear to watch, take notice, and definitely are aware of any people who, for whatever reasons, happen to come into the area in which they live (ie. Be it oil rig people, visitors, or people looking at property to buy in the area, etc).

IMO, fact is these people very much are aware, keep an eye out, and take note of all people who come into their rural, yet close-knit community. IMO, the statement given by the neighbor who was one of the last people to speak with the Jamisons, his statement very much proves exactly this. The details in which he gives in that statement are very much indicative of being aware, taking note of, etc of any people who come up Panola Mountain.. Further examples of this is his detailing of knowledge wrt the "oil rig people" drive excessive speeds.. This detail is what quickly led him to know that the Jamison family were not oil rig workers due to their driving slowly up the mountain.. He goes on to give more detailed knowledge of who was driving the vehicle that was traveling behind the Jamison truck that day(gives her full name and phone number)..all of these details, IMO are indicative of the close knit community, and that they very much kept an eye out for themselves, as well as each other..

I am not at all saying these are negative traits, they are not..they are positive traits indicative of a small community who look out for each other.. The importance of these details, IMO is that whoever it was that IMO, stopped the Jamison family as they were driving back down Panola Mountain had to have been someone that belonged there, lived there, had direct personal and/or business ties there.. The people responsible for the family's death are very much known to the community..and there for wouldn't have been out of place..

IMO, if the persons who ambushed the Jamison's were just happenstance outsiders..or outsiders, period..if that were the case I'd bet my bottom dollar that they would have been immediately noticed and every single detail about them, their physical description, and vehicle info would have been known immediately to members of this small community..

IMO the killer(s) are very much just the opposite.. He/she/they belong there and/or have direct ties to this small community.. and I would go it even one step further in offering up a bit of my own personal theory on who/why killed this family.. This community is extremely tight..and imo, they're definitely NOT wanting anything/anyone to come into their community and in any way negatively impact their lives..and that can be looked at a couple different ways in their being protective of their families, property, and safety that they have maintained for themselves..or it could be they're protective for other reasons such as some type of activity that they do not want others to know about(be it legal/illegal activity..drugs, "religion", etc)..

I just believe that whatever the "ways" of this community are, that there are likely some(maybe just one person..maybe just a very small few)..but imo there are VERY LIKELY some, who are very, very determined to keep that community from being breached by any unwanted outsiders(IMO, key word is "unwanted")..

Some may ask why would the Jamison family fall into the category of unwanted outsiders, rather than the category of potential new members of their small, tight knit community??.. And to that my answer is very simply.. Think about it..firstly its not as tho, the Jamisons were from some distance, out of state, much different is they lived merely an hour away and IMO, it is more than likely that there were people on Panola Mountain who knew people in/around Eufala that would have told exactly what the Jamison's reputation was(just look at what we have had painted for us as the Jamison's rep).. Demons..spirits..meth users..witchcraft..etc..etc..etc..the list goes on and on wrt the negative traits that have been attributed to the Jamisons(some, IMO fairly..and some NOT fairly at all)..

Would those attributes go over well with the tight knit community that lived on Panola Mountain?

The answer is absolutely not, IMO..and IMO, that is possibly one of the motivating factors of why/who would have ambushed/killed this family.. IMO, there are several other possible motivating factors that I could go on&on about.. but, for me, the one thing that it all points to is that it was very, very likely someone from/directly tied to the community of Panola Mountain that ambushed/killed the Jamison family..

Of course as always Jmo, tho..
 
I've uploaded two files containing information that OkieGranny has compiled. The jpg is a topographical map with the 2.7 mile range ring centered on the location of the truck, the campsite, the HRD clues as I interpret the coordinates (not guaranteed to be accurate), the possible trail to the campsite, and one of the search areas from the picture of a map found by OkieGranny.

The other file with the extension .txt is experimental and you should only mess with it if you feel adventuresome. Do not attempt to read it because it will look like gibberish. You can use this file to view the information contained on the topo map with Google Earth if you have it installed. If you decide to try this you must 1 – download the file to your computer; 2 – rename it to have the extension .zip; and 3 – unzip/extract it with your windows unzip utility. You should then have a file called jamison12-8.kml. If Google Earth is installed on your computer you should be able to double-click on the .kml file and Google Earth should open it and zoom in on the area and display the information. I don't know if this process will work with websleuths, but you can give it a try.
 

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In this case, the remains were found less than 3 miles away. The chances of these remains not being the Jamisons are unlikely imo.

I may be remembering wrong but, I believe your opinion of what happened to them is that they were lost in the woods and died from exposure. Well whats the likelihood that, a family, gets lost in the woods, dies from exposure and has their remains go unfound (for 4yrs), even by the S & R teams who searched that exact area 2 wks after their disappearance? Seems unlikely imo
 
I've uploaded two files containing information that OkieGranny has compiled. The jpg is a topographical map with the 2.7 mile range ring centered on the location of the truck, the campsite, the HRD clues as I interpret the coordinates (not guaranteed to be accurate), the possible trail to the campsite, and one of the search areas from the picture of a map found by OkieGranny.

This is a Google Earth image of the map posted by OkieGranny just a bit earlier. I matched them by the land curvature of the hollows. http://prairiechicken.blogspot.com/


Jamisons truck was found at Latitude 35°0021N and Longitude 95°1204W

The Jamisons bodies have been found at Latitude 35°0303N and Longitude 95°1152W

you can make the degree sign with Alt+248. don't need too though.

These were marked and viewed at eye altitude of 24,340 ft. and one can easily match the terrain to previously posted map.


Where the bodies were found, there is a dirt road 200 feet north and they were 70 feet up a steep incline. The "road" crosses the creek several times just west of that point.

The road is at elevation 690 feet, the bodies at 760 feet and the crest of the hill 870 feet.

It looks to me like they could have been taken to that part of the mountain on that dirt road by the creeks, robbed of the brown case with whatever was in there, and someone or one's told them to start climbing and probably shot them.

The whole mountain may not have a typical road, marked or named by the county, but google earth shows many trails all over Panola mountain. Anyone who had hunted that area would know that or people on dirt bikes, quads, even four wheel drive trucks, etc.

Anyway, I believe my map shows the road. Check it out.
 
I missed where the body location cords were confirmed, can anyone link me?
 
The Jamisons bodies have been found at Latitude 35°0303N and Longitude 95°1152W

I'm sorry, y'all, I've been down with a toothache today and just woke up from a deep nap, looked at the the last couple of posts, and thought I'd missed some big news. Took me a good five minutes to realize that the spot marked on this map is the place we were originally told the remains were found, near Grassy Lake Hollow. And then we were told, no, that's not correct, the location is over by Smokestack Hollow.

As far as I know, the exact location has not yet been publicly revealed. Believe me, if I saw it published anywhere, I'd be all over it.
 
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