OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

[little726]

Does anyone have a link to actual pictures or video of the roads we are talking about here? Any local that may have posted the own home videos or has anyone done a "walk through" of sorts? Its hard to get a feel for the terrain, especially where the Jamisons would've been walking if that were the case. Tia.

Also. On the latest map, near 11 'clock, it says campfire. Is that a known spot because of the well site so workers or hikers have been known to use that spot to set up camp? Or is that just a spot where campfire ashes were spotted & referenced so it made the map?

Toby, this link will show you EXACTLY what the Jamisons had to walk through:

https://www.youtube.com/user/landdirtcheap

 

[Mitch1]

As far as the over/under on when the remains will be ruled out or identified as the Jamisons, I'm going with 3 months and will reference the Charles Crowder case-his remains were sent to Texas for DNA analysis and 3 months later they had a match, also LE had suspected that the remains where Crowder's.

Since the remains found (at least the skulls) had no evident trauma, this leads me to think, if they were murdered: they were strangled, stabbed or had throats slashed. Its unlikely anyone is going to kidnap an entire family using a knife. So lets say a gun was used to get these 3 to the location they were to be murdered. (whether on foot or vehicle). This also suggest a scenario that requires 2 people and what motive would 2 people have to murder an entire family especially if they ran into each other by chance. If by chance what are the chances the murders had the means to murder a family without the primary weapon being a gun. That person(s) would've had to have brought a knife, a gun and a rope and the chances of 1 person carrying around all 3 is unlikely. Once that person(s) got them to the location they were murdered and didn't shoot the 1st one and instead strangled or used a knife to murder them (if only 1 purp) if the other 2 were not in some way bound up there would be an immediate attempt to fight or flight as well as some screaming. The chances of 1 murder being able to overcome all these obstacles seems unlikely.

LE describe's the area of the remains as difficult to access and obviously in close proximity-which says to me that (1) there where 2 purps, and to me, thats unlikely if it ends up being the Jamisons, NOT if its 3 other people involved with drugs-deal gone bad (2) these people are not related and murdered separately- probably strangled (like serial killer/rapist/kidnapper) and bodies dumped later, or (3) people who decided to take there drugs (maybe meth) into the woods, get high and died due to OD or even bad batch of drugs.

 

[TooCurious]

5 hijackers held 82 people hostage and took control of a plane with box cutters and threats. It is entirely feasible for one perp to kidnap 3 people at knife point or gun point. Especially when one is a child and the other is disabled. I do not see where this has to be a more than one perp crime. Could be as easy as getting close to Madyson and then holding her to make the other two comply.
I said way back in other posts I thought Sherilyne was the prize and I still think that and I do think mayne more than one person was involved but nothing indicates it has to be more than one IMO.

 

[Mitch1]

5 hijackers held 82 people hostage and took control of a plane with box cutters and threats. It is entirely feasible for one perp to kidnap 3 people at knife point or gun point. Especially when one is a child and the other is disabled. I do not see where this has to be a more than one perp crime. Could be as easy as getting close to Madyson and then holding her to make the other two comply.
I said way back in other posts I thought Sherilyne was the prize and I still think that and I do think mayne more than one person was involved but nothing indicates it has to be more than one IMO.

I would say please refer to the Bystander Effect

 

[wfgodot]

I would say please refer to the Bystander Effect

Bystander Effect interesting but has been challenged after the facts about one of the prime cases on which it's based - the murder of Kitty Genovese in NYC in 1964 - became the subject of debate. (Case itself was turned into a fine short story by the science fiction/fantasy writer and essayist Harlan Ellison: "The Whimper of Whipped Dogs.") Also there have been other objections about assuming the effect to be valid.

 

[Mitch1]

Bystander Effect interesting but has been challenged after the facts about one of the prime cases on which it's based - the murder of Kitty Genovese in NYC in 1964 - became the subject of debate. (Case itself was turned into a fine short story by the science fiction/fantasy writer and essayist Harlan Ellison: "The Whimper of Whipped Dogs.") Also there have been other objections about assuming the effect to be valid.

The Kitty Genovese situation was challenged yes, but that's different than refuting The Bystander Effect which has been substantiated in more than one real life situation as well as in experiments

 

[TooCurious]

I would say please refer to the Bystander Effect

I think the case can be made that Bystander Effect was not relevant to 9/11 hijackings. No one on the plane was a bystander, they were all active participants. It wasn't happening to someone else, it was happening to them as a whole.

 

[Mitch1]

I think the case can be made that Bystander Effect was not relevant to 9/11 hijackings. No one on the plane was a bystander, they were all active participants. It wasn't happening to someone else, it was happening to them as a whole.

The Bystander Effect-diffusion of responsibility is a big element of The Bystander Effect and explains much of the behavior of what you are referring to as active participants.

This is an excerpt (an ex. of what I think you might call an active participant) of an article in which several experiments where conducted on TBE. Note:confederate=someone working w/the researchers

When participants were alone, 75 percent of them left the room and reported the smoke to the experimenter. With three participants in the room, only 38 percent left to report the smoke. And quite remarkably, when a participant was joined by two confederates instructed not to show any concern, only 10 percent of the participants reported the smoke to the experimenter.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/we_are_all_bystanders

 

[Dallen]

Kinta, so pretty close.

ETA: Well, Kinta for that one. Others from there, Wilburton, and Red Oak. I may have looked at Quinton too, but don't have my notes with me right now.

Over a dozen? There's barely a dozen people in these towns combined. That seems like a lot for that area.

 

[TooCurious]

Does anyone take anything out of Berkeley serious anymore?

 

[Mitch1]

Does anyone take anything out of Berkeley serious anymore?

I'm not sure I understand the question-perhaps you can explain why someone wouldn't?

 

[TooCurious]

"While it may have been balanced in its courses, today Berkeley is best known for its professors' well-known leftist biases. The university, like the city it is in, is a bastion for liberalism, socialism, and even atheism. It is well known that UC Berkeley uses its influence to liberalize the other University of California campuses as well as other public, educational institutions around the country. Berkeley is a prime example of the detrimental, liberal influence public universities place on the upcoming American generations.The most likely reason Berkeley is rated so highly among universities is the inevitable mutual liberal bias between educational ranking systems and the university."

 

[Mitch1]

"While it may have been balanced in its courses, today Berkeley is best known for its professors' well-known leftist biases. The university, like the city it is in, is a bastion for liberalism, socialism, and even atheism. It is well known that UC Berkeley uses its influence to liberalize the other University of California campuses as well as other public, educational institutions around the country. Berkeley is a prime example of the detrimental, liberal influence public universities place on the upcoming American generations.The most likely reason Berkeley is rated so highly among universities is the inevitable mutual liberal bias between educational ranking systems and the university."

So what you are asking is if anyone agrees with conservapedia that Berkeley is biased, and because they think they are, they can't be taken seriously

 

[TooCurious]

This is gettin way off topic but
A) Global Warming
B) Berkeley vs Military
C) Suggesting that an individual that reports smoke vs not reporting based on the amount of people has anything to do with life and death situations. They are not comparable because their is no threat of injury or death and they do not involve feelings. Flight 93 disproves the notion Bystander Effect played any role. By it's very name "bystander" does not describe the people aboard the flights and discounts this so called effect.
Tell us more about WPP, because I really don't want to get into liberal views and the damage it has done to the social fabric of this country.
How do you explain a child's skeleton being found. Did the government plant it? If local LE was in on it then they would get federal reimbursement for their expenses on searches I would think.

 

[Mitch1]

This is gettin way off topic but
A) Global Warming
B) Berkeley vs Military
C) Suggesting that an individual that reports smoke vs not reporting based on the amount of people has anything to do with life and death situations. They are not comparable because their is no threat of injury or death and they do not involve feelings. Flight 93 disproves the notion Bystander Effect played any role. By it's very name "bystander" does not describe the people aboard the flights and discounts this so called effect.
Tell us more about WPP, because I really don't want to get into liberal views and the damage it has done to the social fabric of this country.
How do you explain a child's skeleton being found. Did the government plant it? If local LE was in on it then they would get federal reimbursement for their expenses on searches I would think.

It is certainly comparable-"where there is smoke there is fire". Does this mean you don't consider being in a burning building a life and death situation?
I am not sure what your initial question (does anyone take Berkeley seriously?)was trying to accomplish but If you don't want to get into political views than maybe you should steer clear of quoting from political websites. I am not interested and I didn't come on this site to read political rants-my bachelors degree is in Political Science (UT) if I want to talk politics I have "professional outlets" to do so.

As far as WPP-I indeed do think that is their status. How do you know it was a child's skeleton, the ME referred to it as a young skull. I don't think the body was planted by the government (thats crazy talk), what reason would anyone including the government have to target a child. Maybe they did get a reimbursement, if they did it would be hidden or included in some other allotment. Also, I think I said in one of my post, that I also think its possible they did not let LE in on the situation because its possible that some local officials were being investigated or "busted" as well. So they let them go about the search and discovery like they would any other. They sent FBI and some OSBI to help-pretty cheap compared to some of the other WPP "disappearances". I think that's why they only called in a few to search and scaled down the search during hunting season as they didn't want people hurt for people who really aren't even "missing". I think thats why the people who owned the land lived in Florida-so they could not even be considered suspects. Thats why the lady said they did not want her to meet them and show them the land-so she would not be harassed and on the suspect list. I think that is why no reward was ever offered-not even to hunters, as I think it would be obvious, to a family who was so invested in finding their missing loved ones, would at least offer a, oh, I don't know, maybe a $10,000 or so reward if they found remains while hunting. I think thats why cameras where installed-they were concerned about what ever it is they were witness to, I think thats why Madison was pulled out of school right before they went missing and why the father got custody of the son right before they went missing.

To sum up
LE-not let in on it
Search called off early
No suspects-1 immediately cleared (a family of 3 is missing)
NO reward offered-Now that is crazy considering the $32,000 windfall
Cameras-Concerned for safety
No ties to anything-Neither had jobs and NS is the only friend we know of
Madison pulled out of school and Father gets custody of son-right before missing

 

[Dallen]

As far as WPP-I indeed do think that is their status. How do you know it was a child's skeleton, the ME referred to it as a young skull. I don't think the body was planted by the government (thats crazy talk), what reason would anyone including the government have to target a child. Maybe they did get a reimbursement, if they did it would be hidden or included in some other allotment. Also, I think I said in one of my post, that I also think its possible they did not let LE in on the situation because its possible that some local officials were being investigated or "busted" as well. So they let them go about the search and discovery like they would any other. They sent FBI and some OSBI to help-pretty cheap compared to some of the other WPP "disappearances". I think that's why they only called in a few to search and scaled down the search during hunting season as they didn't want people hurt for people who really aren't even "missing". I think thats why the people who owned the land lived in Florida-so they could not even be considered suspects. Thats why the lady said they did not want her to meet them and show them the land-so she would not be harassed and on the suspect list. I think that is why no reward was ever offered-not even to hunters, as I think it would be obvious, to a family who was so invested in finding their missing loved ones, would at least offer a, oh, I don't know, maybe a $10,000 or so reward if they found remains while hunting. I think thats why cameras where installed-they were concerned about what ever it is they were witness to, I think thats why Madison was pulled out of school right before they went missing and why the father got custody of the son right before they went missing.

Snipped by me.

I have to admit, Mitch1, this is the first time I've actually understood why you so strongly think WPP. I don't think that's what happened to this family, but that explained your argument pretty well IMO. Thank you.

 

[TooCurious]

http://www.ok.gov/osbi/Press_Room/2..._HUMAN_REMAINS_LOCATED_IN_LATIMER_COUNTY.html
"On November 16, 2013, at approximately 5:00 p.m., deer hunters in Northern Latimer County came across human skeletal remains. Law enforcement authorities responded to the area where the remains were located. Upon closer examination of the scene, skeletal remains of two adults and one child were located in this area, which is in northern Latimer County, south of Kinta, Oklahoma."

 

[OkieGranny]

Over a dozen? There's barely a dozen people in these towns combined. That seems like a lot for that area.

Sorry for the silence; was out of town yesterday without my notes. It seems that I did not check RSOs for Quinton, OK. Just looking as far as I did was disheartening enough, I guess.

There were several more RSOs not on this list because they appeared to be incarcerated in October of 2009.

Red Oak had two:

2005 Lewd or Indecent Proposals/Acts To Child
2013 Indecent Exposure

Kinta:

2001 Indecent Proposal to a Child, Sexual Battery of a Person Over 16 (he was a law enforcement officer)
2006 Forcible Sodomy
1996 Lewd Or Indecent Acts To A Child Under 16
1992 1st Degree Rape, Lewd Molestation
1992 1st Degree Rape, Forcible Sodomy (released from prison 2008)
1991 Forcible Anal Sodomy, Lewd Molestation

Wilburton:

2005 2nd Degree Rape, multiple domestic violence arrests
1999 Permitting Sexual Abuse to Occur
2013 Failure to Register as Sex Offender (no criminal charge found in OK, may be from out of state)
2011 Sexual Battery
1992 Lewd Molestation (Also, his son? Same name, younger age currently serving 35 years for 1st Degree Rape and Forcible Sodomy since 2001)
1999 1st Degree Rape
1998 Possession of Obscene Photos Depicting Child Under 18

These are only cases that resulted in conviction. I'm sure there are other offenses that were never reported, were reported but a suspect never arrested, the suspect was not brought to trial, or the suspect was acquitted. Or possibly pled guilty to other charges that avoided tagging him as a RSO.

 

[OkieGranny]

Toby, this link will show you EXACTLY what the Jamisons had to walk through:

https://www.youtube.com/user/landdirtcheap

Mmm, I'm not sure that's exactly what they would've had to walk through, because the areas in these videos look fairly level. Perhaps they are a good representation of where they were found, because that area does look fairly level. But the terrain between there and the well site is very hilly.

 

[OkieGranny]

I checked the rules on posting about RSOs and it looks like mapping is okay, so here's the map of the immediate area around Panola Mountain. Kinta is to the north, Wilburton to the southwest, and Red Oak to the southeast:

Google Earth/Maps did not recognize every address given, so some of the placemarks are approximate if I could find the road but not the house number. Some RSOs were listed with only a PO box or with no address at all, so the +1 and +3 notations represent the ones that could not be placed on the map.

From what I understand, residents of the mountain itself rent PO boxes because there is no mail delivery there.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5202848#post5202848.

I can guess, but have no hard info on which types of sex offenders would be most likely to escalate to the murder of an entire family. If anyone does, I'm all ears.