OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #2

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webrocket said:
Without access to the settlement it is impossible to say what happened. Looking at the value of the estate of the will that was probated, it is much less than what we originally thought, $76k versus $500k.

I can surmise the following:

It was the second will that was deemed valid by the court since it was the one written in 2008.

The sole heir under this will is little Stormy and Starlet, her grandmother is the guardian of the estate of Stormy.

For reasons not clear, the parties, i.e. Starlet and Bobby Sr's brothers agreed in some way to divide the rest of the property outside of the estate. This is possibly due to the fact that some of it may still have been titled under the trust that Bobby and Starlet had before the divorce. If that is the case, the Starlet may have agreed to pay the brothers a share of what she took in order to end the litigation.

This resolution at least leaves something in trust for the granddaughter, which might have been lost had the brothers won on each count.

Just my take on it.
Click to expand...

Isn't REAL PROPERTY, land?
 
little726 said:
Isn't REAL PROPERTY, land?
Click to expand...

yes. however, I think Bobby Sr and Starlet jointly owned the real estate during their marriage under a trust. Somewhere in those documents (I thought) was a copy of the divorce decree and property settlement. If, and I am only saying IF, Bobby Sr never got around to untitling the property from the trust, then Starlet MIGHT have had a semi-legitimate claim of ownership.

It is all very complicated where you have an intersection of family law and probate and both sides would have spent many thousands of dollars litigating the competing claims which might have had the effect of diminishing the value of Bobby Sr's estate.

The long and the short of it is, Starlet and the brothers settled the probate dispute. The brothers OBVIOUSLY are getting something from the settlement and they do not want to be administrators of the estate of Stormy so they let Starlet do that.
 
And keep in mind that all of this is happening in the state of Oklahoma, which increases the head-scratching wacky factor x10.
 
OK,

I have printed the divorce settlement, the estimated value of Bobby Sr.s estate (by Jack), and then the General inventory and appraisial from the 3/3 court date. So I noticed these things, not sure if they are pertainent, but I thought I would mention them:

1- that in Bobby's will (page 6 of 10- division of surface rights) it mentions that they have leased "one-sixth (1/6 of the interest in the surface rights leased to the Respondents brother are awarded to the respondent." (Staret is respondent)....THis is the first I have heard of Starlet having a brother.

2-So I am NOT agreeing with the courts evaluation of what is included in the General inventory. Based off of the divorce decree this is what was left of his half after the divorce (I am only listing things that Have a value in divorce papers, so no guns or tools, stuff like that).
Assets mentioned in Bobby's Will-
1- Isuzu Rodeo- $ 1750
2- Toyota- $ 9,500
3- 1/2 Hartford retirement 1- $$- ??
4- 1/2 Hartford retirement 2- $$- ??
5- 1/2 Annuity- $$- ??
6- 1st America Bank account- $ 3500
7- 1/2 of what ever they sold the marital home for
8- 1/2 of what ever they sold 2nd property for
9- 1/2 Gas leases all listed at minimal value
10-1/2 Bearcat was listed at $30,000- so half would be $15,000
11- Surface rights- $$ -?
12- 1/2 of proceeds from sale of: Lawnmower, Car trailer, sale of 1932 buick & 1930 Ford
13- 1/2 of Spirit payments (Jack estimates the value at $140,000 so 1/2 is $70,000
14- Enterprise Lease Payments (Jack estimates $200,000 so 1/2 would be $100,000
15- Easement payments- $ ??

So If I add everything up right- just the stuff that does have an amount listed is $199,750. Not including half of the house, 2nd property, retirements, antique cars, etc.

So if you compare it to Jacks estimated value of the estate, then you can see that Jack was not taking out Starlets half of the divorce. But he has a Arvest IRA listed at $80,000 I am wondering if that wasnt the Arvest annuity.


Estimated value of estate based off will- $199,750 (items with dollar amounts listed only)
Jacks estimated estate value- $498,100
Now compare that to the courts general inventory and appraisal of estate-
Mineral interest- $1500
IRA account- $75,000
Total estate- $76,500

Hmm maybe my math is bad but there is a LARGE difference between $199,750 (very very low end value of what Bobby recieved after the divorce not including his half of the properties and etc) and the $76,500 the court inventories the estate at.

THERE IS NO MENTION OF ANY TRUST IN THE WILL. ok I am going to go dig and see how many trusts I can find and the potential value. Let me know if I miss any thing.
 
mtrooper said:
OK,

I have printed the divorce settlement, the estimated value of Bobby Sr.s estate (by Jack), and then the General inventory and appraisial from the 3/3 court date. So I noticed these things, not sure if they are pertainent, but I thought I would mention them:

1- that in Bobby's will (page 6 of 10- division of surface rights) it mentions that they have leased "one-sixth (1/6 of the interest in the surface rights leased to the Respondents brother are awarded to the respondent." (Staret is respondent)....THis is the first I have heard of Starlet having a brother.

2-So I am NOT agreeing with the courts evaluation of what is included in the General inventory. Based off of the divorce decree this is what was left of his half after the divorce (I am only listing things that Have a value in divorce papers, so no guns or tools, stuff like that).
Assets mentioned in Bobby's Will-
1- Isuzu Rodeo- $ 1750
2- Toyota- $ 9,500
3- 1/2 Hartford retirement 1- $$- ??
4- 1/2 Hartford retirement 2- $$- ??
5- 1/2 Annuity- $$- ??
6- 1st America Bank account- $ 3500
7- 1/2 of what ever they sold the marital home for
8- 1/2 of what ever they sold 2nd property for
9- 1/2 Gas leases all listed at minimal value
10-1/2 Bearcat was listed at $30,000- so half would be $15,000
11- Surface rights- $$ -?
12- 1/2 of proceeds from sale of: Lawnmower, Car trailer, sale of 1932 buick & 1930 Ford
13- 1/2 of Spirit payments (Jack estimates the value at $140,000 so 1/2 is $70,000
14- Enterprise Lease Payments (Jack estimates $200,000 so 1/2 would be $100,000
15- Easement payments- $ ??

So If I add everything up right- just the stuff that does have an amount listed is $199,750. Not including half of the house, 2nd property, retirements, antique cars, etc.

So if you compare it to Jacks estimated value of the estate, then you can see that Jack was not taking out Starlets half of the divorce. But he has a Arvest IRA listed at $80,000 I am wondering if that wasnt the Arvest annuity.


Estimated value of estate based off will- $199,750 (items with dollar amounts listed only)
Jacks estimated estate value- $498,100
Now compare that to the courts general inventory and appraisal of estate-
Mineral interest- $1500
IRA account- $75,000
Total estate- $76,500

Hmm maybe my math is bad but there is a LARGE difference between $199,750 (very very low end value of what Bobby recieved after the divorce not including his half of the properties and etc) and the $76,500 the court inventories the estate at.

THERE IS NO MENTION OF ANY TRUST IN THE WILL. ok I am going to go dig and see how many trusts I can find and the potential value. Let me know if I miss any thing.
Click to expand...


As always, great job,mtrooper!!! It makes your head spin, huh.
 
One thing I did notice in Jack's WILL, compared to Starlet's, it is more detailed. Especially how Jack is to invest, buy, sell, etc....
 
So from what I can see here is the marital property, still up for sale...asking $210,000

http://www.realestatebook.com/homes/listing/101-539117419/refer=treb-gbase

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/11000-S-Western-Ave-Oklahoma-City-OK-73170/21748085_zpid/

And there are still 2 pieces of commerical property in Bob and Starlets name..
The first one IS in the divorce and was put in a trust in 2004. 2nd link shows it for sale-$359,000. One of the Jamisons made payments for the taxes on 11/09 and 12/09 for property taxes.

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R142016575

(the picture is not accurate, you have to hit map this parcel to see the right piece, its not the L shape piece its the small piece in the Lower corner.)

http://www.naisullivangroup.com/Docs2010/S.W.15thStreetCouncilRoad-FLYER.pdf
 
There are no mentions of this second piece of property...Looks like it is a piece of commercial property that they have rented out to Allstate. Market Value is $110,941. AHHH HA. So I am attaching 2 maps, I dont know if they will stay how I have them zoomed in, but it shows that the second property is actually parking lot with a small building on it. It looks to me that Enterprise is leasing the parkinglot. Not sure why the market value is so low considered to the $200,000 that Jack has it listed at (maybe that is how much the lease equals out to with left over payments...Now take Starlets half out of that and we are back at $100,000.

http://oklahoma.latitudegeo.com/imf...e&qry=OKLAHOMA_SQL.PARCEL.PIN='1736132308890'

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R132308890

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?name=E...20+S+Shields+Blvd&city=Oklahoma+City&state=OK
 
So I also notice in Jacks estimate of the estate that he has a listing called Counsel property- Minimal value. well I am thinking that this would be the 5 acre property that I listed earlier that is for sale for $359,000. It is on the corner of COUNCIL and 15th Street, Minimal value...hmmm. Would be nice to get a better idea what these gas/ oil leases were worth. Do I understand correctly that means Bobby and Starlet have mineral rights (possibly the property as well) that they lease out the mineral rights to a company for a fee so they can drill? I know the Bearcat lease is in Grady county.

Hmm, ok I found some oil lease they had, Can anyone make heads or tails of it?

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/cocle...clerk/deeds/Results_03.asp?lCurrResultsPage=3
 
brilliant work Mtrooper.

I can't even imagine where all of Bobby's assets went, however, I think he was in poor health and depending on what was wrong with him, nursing home care costs thousands of dollars per month. Plus as long as he was alive, he was free to give property away.
 
webrocket said:
brilliant work Mtrooper.

I can't even imagine where all of Bobby's assets went, however, I think he was in poor health and depending on what was wrong with him, nursing home care costs thousands of dollars per month. Plus as long as he was alive, he was free to give property away.
Click to expand...

So I am all about hypotheticals...
Assuming Bobby Sr. Had NO OTHER INSURANCE other than Medicare (which I highly doubt, a lot of people have a medigap policy as well as medicare) than he would spent $10,680 for nuring home care assuming he went in Sep. 1st of 09 and died Dec. 9th of 2009.

Days 1-20 are free
days 20-100 are $133.50/ day.
(9 days Dec, + 30 Days Nov, 31 Days Oct+ 30 Days Sept= 100 Days)
100-20=80 80 Days x $133.50= $10,680. total with ONLY Medicare

Medicare covers nothing after 100 days. I would be willing to bet that he went in the nursing home some time towards the middle of September (he had 30 days from Aug. 14th which is the date on the divorce ppwk. to get out of the marital home). So I am still thinking there is a LOT OF $$ missing.
 
mtrooper said:
So I am all about hypotheticals...
Assuming Bobby Sr. Had NO OTHER INSURANCE other than Medicare (which I highly doubt, a lot of people have a medigap policy as well as medicare) than he would spent $10,680 for nuring home care assuming he went in Sep. 1st of 09 and died Dec. 9th of 2009.

Days 1-20 are free
days 20-100 are $133.50/ day.
(9 days Dec, + 30 Days Nov, 31 Days Oct+ 30 Days Sept= 100 Days)
100-20=80 80 Days x $133.50= $10,680. total with ONLY Medicare

Medicare covers nothing after 100 days. I would be willing to bet that he went in the nursing home some time towards the middle of September (he had 30 days from Aug. 14th which is the date on the divorce ppwk. to get out of the marital home). So I am still thinking there is a LOT OF $$ missing.
Click to expand...

that's possible but if he was "self employed" who knows if he was medicare eligible. Out east nursing care can cost a fortune depending on how much care the sick person needs. $5,000 - $10,000 per month is not unheard of in these parts.
 
webrocket said:
that's possible but if he was "self employed" who knows if he was medicare eligible. Out east nursing care can cost a fortune depending on how much care the sick person needs. $5,000 - $10,000 per month is not unheard of in these parts.
Click to expand...

Full blown nursing care here can run $9-10,000 per month. Hospice might be less.
 
That is true. I wonder how long he owned the gas station for and the tree business. I guess none of this probably even matters. I was just trying to say that there is A LOT of money missing, and I didn't think that it is all listed on the inventory. I just wonder what happens to the stuff thats NOT listed on the inventory. So if its not listed is it fair game for Jack?
 
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