Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #5 *Arrests*

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Private dams of any kind over a public stream are illegal in Texas. Given the very broad definition of "public creek" in the Texas, private dams are, by extension, essentially non existent in the state.
Here in Central Texas and further west, there aren't that many "public streams" and some that are a "navigable waterway" do have low head dams built back when to operate cotton gins and mills, create swimming holes and such.

Most agricultural properties, even very small ones, do have small stock ponds ("stock tanks") created by excavating dirt to create a dam, in locations that are deemed to have sufficient runoff, like swales, gullies and the upper reaches of creeks. Really, they're everywhere. Here's a good overview: Stock Tanks Bring Water to a Dry Texan Landscape

I'd guess that the term stock TANK is regional and that a preference for the term "tank" rather than pond may be related to Spanish "tanque" (cistern, reservoir, water tank). Also, not to be confused with galvanized metal watering troughs available at the local farm and ranch supply store.
 
I think that it only going to be moved if the defendants ask for it.

As you pointed out, a jury of ones peers does not mean the ability to be judged by ones ethnic group, friends, and social group etc.

But.... I think there is strong under current that the defendant gets the most advantageous legal setting. For example, they present last in Court.

As a result, I am thinking that trials stay local unless the defendant convinces a judge that they would not get a fair trial if it were held locally. The State insisting on a non local trial would seem to open a conviction up to an appeal based on:

Dear Appellate court, the State spirited me away to a distant county where nobody could accurately weigh my reputation for uhmm.... "truthfulness" and you know, "good character". These were key elements in my defense. Thus, I was denied Due Process.

Thanks for the affirmation that it was pond related. I also think your point regarding the ownership of surface water is interesting.

I suspect that any differences between Texas and Oklahoma regarding ownership of surface water and the ability of land owners to construct ponds with out regulation is due to the differing Spanish (Texas) and Anglo (Oklahoma) legal heritage of each state.

Going deeper into wet trivia...... Louisiana has a Spanish influence that was later superseded by Anglo based laws. My understanding that Louisiana law regarding what creeks are public access or private etc. can be very confusing.
BBM... from post above:

As a result, I am thinking that trials stay local unless the defendant convinces a judge that they would not get a fair trial if it were held locally.

I am not at all convinced that an impartial jury can be seated in that county. My guess is that, by now, most of the people in that county know far more about those murders than any of us do, and have very likely formed opinions that will prevent them from being impartial jurors. JMO
 
Twomblys were home by noon. Tifany picked up the kids around noon. Yeah, it sounds like they worked fast. Plus, the burial site is just across the street from Tad's property.
This skid steer. Was there and the hole pre dug. Murders were committed and hole filled and skid steer gone by the time Beasley was up and about >12 noon.
Do we have any info on how it was transported, To or fro...?
These are usually moved on a sort of specialized trailer, towed by some sized pickup. Any one of the trucks referenced would have been adequate
(https://www.machinio.com/listings/9...2x24-14k-equipment-bobcat-trailer-in-byron-ga
Just wondering as to who loaded the skid steer and towed it away (to where), with what, in what time frame of departing with it and reappearing in the timeline . An extra non associated person or one of these four.
 
BBM... from post above:

As a result, I am thinking that trials stay local unless the defendant convinces a judge that they would not get a fair trial if it were held locally.

I am not at all convinced that an impartial jury can be seated in that county. My guess is that, by now, most of the people in that county know far more about those murders than any of us do, and have very likely formed opinions that will prevent them from being impartial jurors. JMO
Many residents will also have relationships with the four defendants and/or their families. That would limit impartiality.
 
Jury pool could be a problem. Small population, large area

Second Largest County in Oklahoma
Area
• Total 2,049 sq mi (5,310 km2)
• Land 2,041 sq mi (5,290 km2)
• Water 7.4 sq mi (19 km2) 0.4%

Population (2020)
• Total 21,384
• Density 10/sq mi

Registered voters
• Total 8,667
 
Jury pool could be a problem. Small population, large area

Second Largest County in Oklahoma
Area
• Total 2,049 sq mi (5,310 km2)
• Land 2,041 sq mi (5,290 km2)
• Water 7.4 sq mi (19 km2) 0.4%

Population (2020)
• Total 21,384
• Density 10/sq mi

Registered voters
• Total 8,667
Could the time of the year the trial(s) is scheduled also impact the number of people available as jurors? Planting or harvesting season is very work intensive for farmers. Surely ranchers have busy seasons they can't afford to be away from their "jobs". A long trial could seriously impact their crops and their yearly incomes.
 
Such a fantastic point. It's insane to me how much Cora and Cole were willing to murder for other children and not only that make their daughter an unwilling participant to such a vile crime. Forcing her to be an accessory to a murder or worse in a bid perhaps to scare her into silence. I can't imagine what that poor daughter thought about herself, through the years leading up this. There are so many levels of sadness.
Yes, it is really tragic. And not trying to be gruesome or graphic, but in reality if I understand correctly it almost seems that she asked her teenage daughter to clean out the ‘hearse’?

A horrid reprehensible request IMO. MOO
 
Jury pool could be a problem. Small population, large area

Second Largest County in Oklahoma
Area
• Total 2,049 sq mi (5,310 km2)
• Land 2,041 sq mi (5,290 km2)
• Water 7.4 sq mi (19 km2) 0.4%

Population (2020)
• Total 21,384
• Density 10/sq mi

Registered voters
• Total 8,667

Somehow I think they will manage to get it done.
 
Is CT the "pastor" of the Misfits? I thought I'd read somewhere that he is, but can't find the info now that I'm looking for it.
pretty sure I read that too but cannot find a link either.

I can only find references to the Twombleys and Cooks (couple who had the Butler children at the time the murders happened) hosting regular God's Misfits meetings at their homes.
---------------------------------
It wasn’t entirely clear where the children were during the search. Adams told investigators that she had left them in the care of another couple on March 29 and 30; the affidavits said that couple regularly hosted the “God’s Misfits” meetings.
https://www.courthousenews.com/memb...ods-misfits-held-in-killings-of-kansas-women/

According to a witness who spoke to Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents, all four suspects were part of “an anti-government group that had a religious affiliation.” The affidavits said they called themselves “God’s Misfits” and held regular meetings at the home of the Twomblys and another couple who Adams said watched the children the day the women disappeared.
Bond denied for 4 'God's Misfits' defendants in the killing of 2 Kansas women

(NewsNation) — The leader of “God’s Misfits,” who goes by the name “Squirrel,” says the suspects involved in the killing of two Kansas moms do not share the same God as him.

“Not my God. … The God that I serve condemns such hate. He’s serving Satan,” Squirrel said during an exclusive interview Friday with NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield.

Squirrel defended his religious organization, adding that he has no relationship with the four suspects and has never been to Oklahoma.

“I have no relation with them at all,” Squirrel said on “Banfield.”
‘God’s Misfits’ group disavows suspects in killing of Kansas moms

apparently not even God's Misfits claim these murderers.
 
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I disagree. The safety of prison staff is the priority, and no inmate is allowed to become "powerful." Especially if the inmate has engaged in child abuse. Before TA lands in any prison, she will undergo a mental health evaluation.

The prison staff will not tolerate her antics inside the prison.

JMO
I don't much care what happens to these people as long as they stay locked up but there are most certainly prison hierarchies and even gangs in control. When I lived in California, there was always stuff in the news about the violent gangs and drug dealing inside that state prison system. A quick search on the subject returned this:

Multiple Mississippi prisons controlled by gangs and violence, DOJ report says

 
pretty sure I read that too but cannot find a link either.

I can only find references to the Twombleys and Coles (couple who had the Butler children at the time the murders happened) hosting regular God's Misfits meetings at their homes.
---------------------------------
It wasn’t entirely clear where the children were during the search. Adams told investigators that she had left them in the care of another couple on March 29 and 30; the affidavits said that couple regularly hosted the “God’s Misfits” meetings.
https://www.courthousenews.com/memb...ods-misfits-held-in-killings-of-kansas-women/

According to a witness who spoke to Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents, all four suspects were part of “an anti-government group that had a religious affiliation.” The affidavits said they called themselves “God’s Misfits” and held regular meetings at the home of the Twomblys and another couple who Adams said watched the children the day the women disappeared.
Bond denied for 4 'God's Misfits' defendants in the killing of 2 Kansas women

(NewsNation) — The leader of “God’s Misfits,” who goes by the name “Squirrel,” says the suspects involved in the killing of two Kansas moms do not share the same God as him.

“Not my God. … The God that I serve condemns such hate. He’s serving Satan,” Squirrel said during an exclusive interview Friday with NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield.

Squirrel defended his religious organization, adding that he has no relationship with the four suspects and has never been to Oklahoma.

“I have no relation with them at all,” Squirrel said on “Banfield.”
‘God’s Misfits’ group disavows suspects in killing of Kansas moms

apparently not even God's Misfits claim these murderers.
I'll look again tonight when I get home. (This case is going to cost me my job!! LOL) But thank you for verifying that I didn't dream it! :)
 
Such a fantastic point. It's insane to me how much Cora and Cole were willing to murder for other children and not only that make their daughter an unwilling participant to such a vile crime. Forcing her to be an accessory to a murder or worse in a bid perhaps to scare her into silence. I can't imagine what that poor daughter thought about herself, through the years leading up this. There are so many levels of sadness.
BBM. That is a reflection of their cult mentality, and it doesn't make me sad, it makes me angry. Cults thrive by creating a culture of fear, especially among women and children. How many other cases have resulted in cult participants landing in prison? Too many.

I'd like to know if "God's Misfits" was an actual tax-exempt "church" and how many members it has. I think it is very possible this group is much deeper and darker, and LE is still digging.

JMO
 
Yes, it is really tragic. And not trying to be gruesome or graphic, but in reality if I understand correctly it almost seems that she asked her teenage daughter to clean out the ‘hearse’?

A horrid reprehensible request IMO. MOO

I would take that to mean that the women were not transported in the large horse trailer we saw.
 
I don't much care what happens to these people as long as they stay locked up but there are most certainly prison hierarchies and even gangs in control. When I lived in California, there was always stuff in the news about the violent gangs and drug dealing inside that state prison system. A quick search on the subject returned this:

Multiple Mississippi prisons controlled by gangs and violence, DOJ report says

afaik, none of the suspects are members of drug gangs. No way will they be housed in the same prison.

JMO
 
pretty sure I read that too but cannot find a link either.

I can only find references to the Twombleys and Coles (couple who had the Butler children at the time the murders happened) hosting regular God's Misfits meetings at their homes.
---------------------------------
It wasn’t entirely clear where the children were during the search. Adams told investigators that she had left them in the care of another couple on March 29 and 30; the affidavits said that couple regularly hosted the “God’s Misfits” meetings.
https://www.courthousenews.com/memb...ods-misfits-held-in-killings-of-kansas-women/

According to a witness who spoke to Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents, all four suspects were part of “an anti-government group that had a religious affiliation.” The affidavits said they called themselves “God’s Misfits” and held regular meetings at the home of the Twomblys and another couple who Adams said watched the children the day the women disappeared.
Bond denied for 4 'God's Misfits' defendants in the killing of 2 Kansas women

(NewsNation) — The leader of “God’s Misfits,” who goes by the name “Squirrel,” says the suspects involved in the killing of two Kansas moms do not share the same God as him.

“Not my God. … The God that I serve condemns such hate. He’s serving Satan,” Squirrel said during an exclusive interview Friday with NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield.

Squirrel defended his religious organization, adding that he has no relationship with the four suspects and has never been to Oklahoma.

“I have no relation with them at all,” Squirrel said on “Banfield.”
‘God’s Misfits’ group disavows suspects in killing of Kansas moms

apparently not even God's Misfits claim these murderers.
BBM. Of course they don't want to be associated with the killings, <modsnip: LE has not indicated this particular group is affiliated with the 4 accused in this case>
 
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BBM. Of course they don't want to be associated with the killings, <modsnip: LE has not indicated this particular group is affiliated with the 4 accused in this case>
when googling gods misfits when the news first broke about a religious anti government group I noted there are a number of organizations calling themselves God's misfits/misfitz and so forth.

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>
 
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when googling gods misfits when the news first broke about a religious anti government group I noted there are a number of organizations calling themselves God's misfits/misfitz and so forth.

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>
My hunch is, this group called themselves that, without even having any idea this guy has a site called the same thing.
They most certainly do not hold to the same things, politically or religiously.

jmo
 
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when googling gods misfits when the news first broke about a religious anti government group I noted there are a number of organizations calling themselves God's misfits/misfitz and so forth.

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>
I actually think Pastor Squirrel and his ministry are even yet other victims of this group of murderers. They may become targets for persecution and threats just because they are unlucky enough to share the name, although I would bet that they had the name long before the killers.
 
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