Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

[GRT]

I still question why it took so much longer to arrest Price. According to the Kake story, he was one of the actual killers and he cut his hand badly. Did he seek treatment for the cut?

What they did is unforgivable.

On so many levels...

 

[Knox]

Did we ever find out if Jilian had a gun in her purse that day?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Investigators also said a pistol magazine was found inside Kelley’s purse in the car but that there was no gun found

Kansas moms killings: What we know

New details have emerged about the killings of two Kansas mothers whose suspected killers had a violent history, according to court documents.

www.newsnationnow.com

Butler's glasses were also found on the ground near a broken hammer, and a pistol magazine was found inside Kelley's purse, but there was no pistol found, according to court records

Court documents reveal more details in the deaths of two Kansas women in Oklahoma

Court documents reveal more information about the disappearance and death of two womemn

www.ktul.com

Butler’s glasses were also found in the roadway, as well as a pistol magazine inside Kelley’s purse but no pistol was found, OSBI stated

OSBI: Bodies Of 2 Missing Kansas Women Found In Buried Freezer

According to a search warrant, on April 14 officials found the bodies of Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, in a chest freezer buried just over eight miles from where the women went missing.

www.newson6.com

 

[Knox]

I hope we learn more about the magazine in Jilian’s purse at trial. That never made sense to me, where was the gun?

 

[otto]

Public locations would be a step toward safety. The problem, though, is that they were cut off before reaching the drop-off point. A safe location might help, but can't guarantee anyone truly determined won't waylay a parent on the way to the exchange location nor follow from the safe space. It also doesn't guarantee parents or grandparents won't make private arrangements.

Court ordered 'safe location' should not be an abandoned gas station on a rural road a few miles South of town, but it was. Safe custody exchange is in town, at a populated public place ... for the safety of all parties.

If she had been cut off before she reached a safe location drop-off in town, she would have ended up at Starbucks instead of the grocery store. She was court ordered to pick up her children at an abandoned gas station on the highway a few miles too far South. She was cut off from arriving on the morning she was ambushed and murdered by people who lured her to that location.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I hope that all four of these clowns get the death sentence. All four were complicit with the deaths of Jillian Kelly and Veronica Butler. Shame on all four of them. Child custody disputes, ugh, does not need to go to the level of murder. At the end of the day, how well are the children doing? The children have lost everyone and everything, especially their innocence. And these idiots, did they really think they could get away with this, apparently so! The children always pay. So sad. And, two young and beautiful women went to early graves, lost their lives and in horrific ways. All four must pay for they are murderers and selfish self-satisfying idiots.

Yes Rhenish……. these points are all so true and applicable. And I’m not trying to pick or throw stones……. but there are five individuals involved here, right? TA, TC, ColT, CorT, and PG IIRC. So yes on all for all five IMO. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

If TA hadn’t been able to cancel the supervisor who was otherwise supposed to be there waiting with TA and the children when the exchange was to occur, TA’s plot would’ve been thwarted. But TA just simply asked her to take a couple of weeks off to remove her presence and then TA was able to set the trap on road.

IMO there’s a gap in having court-appointed supervisors coupled with casual and changed arrangements lacking any oversight or communication with all the parties involved. Legislation could improve that. MOO

The custody exchange/visitation was much worse than TA being able to cancel the exchange supervisor by requesting she take a few weeks off.

Beginning with making serious allegations against VB and her family, TA had controlled every element here for several months and this was the very first time that VB was able to use the party she earlier presented to the Court for approval.

In true TA fashion, she wanted somebody that she could control. I recall TA alleging that she was paying her favored supervisor $600/week to monitor the custody exchange/visitation. MOO

 

[GRT]

Do we know if TA's son, Wrangler Rickman, is still in the psychiatric unit?

 

[Rixey]

Knowing now that Grise, 31 stabbed VB, 27, likely knew each other-- I can't believe authorities allowed that ground worm 12 more days of freedom (following his co-defendants arrest) before executing the warrant for his arrest!

Those who knew Grice say they’re in a state of shock.

News Nation - 5/1/2024

I'd like to think he spent much of that time constantly looking over his shoulder and wondering what they knew. He had to know they'd be coming for him sooner or later, he was just too slow to run.

 

[Rixey]

Now it's just a poker game for TA. May the best hand win, is how she thinks of her defense. And if she catches a break, she'll take it. JMO

It would be wise for the other four to realize & accept the reality of this. If TA can make things better for herself in any way she will not hesitate to turn on them. She has already shown the extremes she is willing to go to in order to get what she wants.

 

[sunspun]

It would be wise for the other four to realize & accept the reality of this. If TA can make things better for herself in any way she will not hesitate to turn on them. She has already shown the extremes she is willing to go to in order to get what she wants.

I keep wondering if TA flat-out asked the men to kill the ladies, or if they actually volunteered their services, after she talked to them of wanting Veronica dead.

 

[Sundog]

I keep wondering if TA flat-out asked the men to kill the ladies, or if they actually volunteered their services, after she talked to them of wanting Veronica dead.

I think she set it up in such a way that the others really believed that the safety and well-being of the children were at stake if they were allowed to remain in their mother's custody. At that point, she probably didn't need to ask them, they were all on board with the plan. JMO, of course.

 

[Rixey]

Do we know if TA's son, Wrangler Rickman, is still in the psychiatric unit?

I don't believe he has been in a psych unit, but rather was/is in a court ordered residential drug/alcohol treatment program. IIRC that program would be ending around this time (if he stayed in it).

 

[al66pine]

Safety at Exchanges. Better Addressed by Legislature or Courts?

I think the legislation would be about safe places to do child-custody exchange. In this case, the exchange was made at a desolate and remote location that made it easy for the perps to attack the victims without witnesses or cameras. The exchanges should done in places that ensure safety.
jmo

@Inthedetails Thanks for ^ post re possible legislation.

The goal is an admirable idea, but is a state STATUTE specifically requiring it in all custody proceedings the way to address the issue? Why not allow the COURT handling the custody proceedings to address safety concerns during custody exchanges by issuing an ORDER? Could do so on a case by case basis as appropriate. Or could add it to one or some of the templates cts use as default orders.

Parents/ppl involved in child custody exchanges can already make exchanges in a public location and w video/CAMERA recording.
Can arrange this either by agreement btwn themselves (if relatively amiable) or IIUC, thru their attys by filing motion for COURT to order that as a term in the original custody ORDERS or by modifying them.

Respectfully, I don't see the two points of this (admittedly hypothetical) bill as "ensuring safety" during custody exchanges.

IIRC, Ms Butler & Ms Kelley were together in the car so Ms K could serve as a supervisor of Butler's visitation w her children, not just the exchange.
IIRC she was one of a few (3?) on a COURT APPOINTED list of ppl who could serve as SUPERVISOR during this visitation. Her presence did not ensure safety in this instance; sadly, she became another victim.
Seems that a "supervisor-present-at exchange" element would not necessarily ensure safety from the parents who want to injure others. Perhaps even the children. For ex, see "Murders of Charles and Braden Powell" section at Disappearance of Susan Powell - Wikipedia.

As for idea re requiring exchange LOCATION to be monitored or recorded on video/CAMERA, would that "ensure safety?" Awareness of vid recording in progress may discourage some parents (grandparents/whoever) from injuring the other parent at time of exchange.
But an astronomical number of crimes are committed despite the perps knowing that the site has vid recording systems. For ex, banks, retail stores, businesses, etc. Not to mention homes as well.

Having exchanges (and even visitation) occur at site w vid cams can also be accomplished without a state STATUTE requiring it. People can simply agree to it, again, if amiable. Or could file motion asking for it by a COURT ORDER.

Vid cameras (in cell phones) are at the fingertips of virtually everyone today, and even if not affordable for ppl involved, they can identify potential exchange locations w video recording systems.

Not saying that ct orders or legislation would or could have prevented these tragic deaths. Ideally parents would come to acceptable arrangements themselves. Unfortunately IRL, RL is not ideal.

jmo

 

[CuriousCricket]

Safety at Exchanges. Better Addressed by Legislature or Courts?

@Inthedetails Thanks for ^ post re possible legislation.

The goal is an admirable idea, but is a state STATUTE specifically requiring it in all custody proceedings the way to address the issue? Why not allow the COURT handling the custody proceedings to address safety concerns during custody exchanges by issuing an ORDER? Could do so on a case by case basis as appropriate. Or could add it to one or some of the templates cts use as default orders.

Parents/ppl involved in child custody exchanges can already make exchanges in a public location and w video/CAMERA recording.
Can arrange this either by agreement btwn themselves (if relatively amiable) or IIUC, thru their attys by filing motion for COURT to order that as a term in the original custody ORDERS or by modifying them.

Respectfully, I don't see the two points of this (admittedly hypothetical) bill as "ensuring safety" during custody exchanges.

IIRC, Ms Butler & Ms Kelley were together in the car so Ms K could serve as a supervisor of Butler's visitation w her children, not just the exchange.
IIRC she was one of a few (3?) on a COURT APPOINTED list of ppl who could serve as SUPERVISOR during this visitation. Her presence did not ensure safety in this instance; sadly, she became another victim.
Seems that a "supervisor-present-at exchange" element would not necessarily ensure safety from the parents who want to injure others. Perhaps even the children. For ex, see "Murders of Charles and Braden Powell" section at Disappearance of Susan Powell - Wikipedia.

As for idea re requiring exchange LOCATION to be monitored or recorded on video/CAMERA, would that "ensure safety?" Awareness of vid recording in progress may discourage some parents (grandparents/whoever) from injuring the other parent at time of exchange.
But an astronomical number of crimes are committed despite the perps knowing that the site has vid recording systems. For ex, banks, retail stores, businesses, etc. Not to mention homes as well.

Having exchanges (and even visitation) occur at site w vid cams can also be accomplished without a state STATUTE requiring it. People can simply agree to it, again, if amiable. Or could file motion asking for it by a COURT ORDER.

Vid cameras (in cell phones) are at the fingertips of virtually everyone today, and even if not affordable for ppl involved, they can identify potential exchange locations w video recording systems.

Not saying that ct orders or legislation would or could have prevented these tragic deaths. Ideally parents would come to acceptable arrangements themselves. Unfortunately IRL, RL is not ideal.

jmo

Being from a small town, I know how often "money talks" and influential people have too much influence with the judges they country club and golf with. No, any solution would need to be bigger than an individual court or judge. In a huge number of cases, women like VB would have absolutely no chance against the likes of TA or TC -- based on my opinion and observations.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Being from a small town, I know how often "money talks" and influential people have too much influence with the judges they country club and golf with. No, any solution would need to be bigger than an individual court or judge. In a huge number of cases, women like VB would have absolutely no chance against the likes of TA or TC -- based on my opinion and observations.

Thank you CuriousCricket for having mentioned this^^!….. I too have wondered about it.

IIRC early reports were that TA was supposedly connected in some community, civic, or was it political circles? And some might have been either through marital or familial relationships or connections? And if so, IMO that needs to be investigated thoroughly. Wasn’t it also the case early in the evolution of this dispute, that some questioned why the police authorities / judge IIRC had acquiesced to TA’s request to not have supervision for custody exchanges at all?

It seems that there might have IMO been either some authoritative fear, favor, or preferential treatment involved? And if so, this should also be examined. And if that affected or influenced this it needs to be considered for other offenses. MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The motion, reviewed by Court TV, details each defendant’s alleged role in the conspiracy, which allegedly went according to plan. Prosecutors say “Adams hated and despised Butler and wanted her dead,” and was responsible for all the purchases the group needed. She is accused of buying burner phones for the group, stun devices, yellow straps that were found placed around the freezers the bodies were buried in, and even the pants Cullum wore the day of the murders

Cullum is accused of digging the hole at the burial site with skid steers the day before the murders and is the person who allegedly stabbed Kelley to death. Grice is accused of murdering Butler the same way.

After killing the women, the men allegedly drove the bodies to the burial site, where they buried them along with the clothes that both men were wearing, the knife used to kill Butler and a stun device. Prosecutors say the victims’ DNA was on their assailants’ clothing.

Prosecutors detail conspiracy in murder of preacher’s wife, friend

Prosecutors say five people charged with murdering two women because of a custody dispute meticulously planned the crime before carrying it out.

www.ksby.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834776983399809298

 

[CuriousCricket]

Thank you CuriousCricket for having mentioned this^^!….. I too have wondered about it.

IIRC early reports were that TA was supposedly connected in some community, civic, or was it political circles? And some might have been either through marital or familial relationships or connections? And if so, IMO that needs to be investigated thoroughly. Wasn’t it also the case early in the evolution of this dispute, that some questioned why the police authorities / judge IIRC had acquiesced to TA’s request to not have supervision for custody exchanges at all?

It seems that there might have IMO been either some authoritative fear, favor, or preferential treatment involved? And if so, this should also be examined. And if that affected or influenced this it needs to be considered for other offenses. MOO

I love my small town and the people in it. Most of us are good people. But I am not blind. It is still very much a buddy, buddy system in which even good people lean in favor of their friends when it is decision-making time. Often without even recognizing it as that's the way they've always related to each other.

I suspect the judge was genuinely "snowed" by TA. Yes, IIRC, TA was very involved in the community: on the board of the local hospital and president/head of the local political party, and on and on as well as being from an old, moneyed family.

In my opinion, any rules and regulations would need to be taken out of the hands of individual courts and judges. The magistrate or judge needs to be able to shake his/her head, shrug h/h shoulders, spread h/h hands and say sheepishly, "It's above my pay grade", "It's over my head", "I'm required to . . . " instead of having matters left to their discretion. I believe there's a lot of integrity and real desire to serve good and well. I also believe, the orders will be different - most of the time - if something is a requirement of the job.

Unfortunately, no amount of state or federal rules will stop people like TA once they've made up their minds - in my opinion.

 

[al66pine]

Was the Abandoned Gas Stn. Specified in Ct Order?

Court ordered 'safe location' should not be an abandoned gas station on a rural road a few miles South of town, but it was. Safe custody exchange is in town, at a populated public place ... for the safety of all parties.

If she had been cut off before she reached a safe location drop-off in town, she would have ended up at Starbucks instead of the grocery store. She was court ordered to pick up her children at an abandoned gas station on the highway a few miles too far South. She was cut off from arriving on the morning she was ambushed and murdered by people who lured her to that location.

@otto
Was abandoned gas stn. (or abandoned corner store?) location specified in ct order as the exchange location?

Or was the location agreed independent of ct order? Although from what I've read, my impression is that grandmother & mother agreed on very little.

Was that the usual location for exchange?

Anyone have the ct order itself? Or MSM link handy.