OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[Betty P]

Would there be a public record of that?

Yes. It's safe to assume LE has or is gathering all of that evidence, including records of calls, texts, messages before and during that window of time. JMO, if an arrest is made, this evidence may be a big part of the trial.

 

[Gardenista]

<modsnip: sleuthing non POI>
So I guess that means it's most likely the primary crime scene is either where the car was found or the court's required drop off/pickup location. Which is weird - daylight etc...

 

[MntnHiker]

One thing I just started thinking about - I wonder if the women would have stopped to help what they thought was a disabled vehicle on the side of the road, especially if it appeared to just be a single woman with the vehicle? The situation I'm imagining is someone knew they would be driving that road and pulled over, with their hood popped, maybe even waving them down for help. I am thinking many women may not stop for a man or men they don't know on the roadside but might stop for a single woman.

Perhaps there was another person or a man with this woman who was hiding crouched down behind the other side of the car or laying down in the backseat and came out to ambush the women once they approached the vehicle to help. The car is not really disabled, they shove the women in their car and take off soon after. In this scenario, maybe one of the perps smashed out the window in the car in order to try and stage the scene or throw investigators off the scent of what really happened? It's also possible if things went down this way, the women made a run for it back to their vehicle and the window was smashed to get them out of the car.

All just theories I'm running around in my mind.

 

[shefner]

<modsnip: sleuthing non POI>

So I guess that means it's most likely the primary crime scene is either where the car was found or the court's required drop off/pickup location. Which is weird - daylight etc...

Hi Gardenista...
If you view post #490, you can get a good view of the location where the exchange was to take place. I think it's referred to as, "Four Corners." There was a discussion about how desolate this spot seems, especially considering the custody issues that have existed in this case.

Several questions about the pick-up have been discussed:
*Was the location changed at the last moment?
*Did the ladies encounter car trouble or were they stopped along the way?
*Were the children ever at the pick-up point with their guardian?
*Did the guardian notify anyone when the women didn't show up?
*If the location was changed, did something terrible happen at that spot and then the car was planted at the location where it was found, just miles away from the destination point?
*How did authorities find out about the vehicle on the roadside? Were they called? If so, who called them?

 

[MissyRie]

I wondered the same. Why not floor it?

If they knew the person they were meeting, it's possible the driver was shot thru the window BEFORE she knew to "floor" it.

 

[doublestop]

I would think that if the window was shattered from the outside to gain access, the victims (or at least the driver) would have been incapacitated or they would have driven away.

Unless more than one vehicle were involved, and they were parked in.

 

[bluevioletfour]

Re: Perp(s) reaching in through shattered window and cutting him or herself, that's unlikely due to the safety glass car windows are made of nowadays. Not saying it couldn't possibly have happened, but any late-model vehicle would have that type of glass, that breaks up into little pebbles rather than sharp, jagged edges.

I'm thinking that however the scenario details end up, those ladies would not have gone without a fight. I hope they can find the perp(s) and sadly women quick enough to find DNA under fingernails and hopefully scratches on whoever took them.

 

[bluevioletfour]

If they knew the person they were meeting, it's possible the driver was shot thru the window BEFORE she knew to "floor" it.

I believe whatever went down happened so quickly... plus they might have thought the kids were in the other vehicle. I think they were blindsided with little time to react. Plus, if there happened to be two perps.. one on each side of vehicle, then Jilian wouldn't have been able to run. And where would she run on that desolate highway that she wasn't familiar with?

 

[KariKae]

There had to be something major with the scene to trigger that kind of police presence. If it were just an abandonded car, the police would have put an "orange sticker" on the window to indicate the car had been checked and needed to be moved. Even if it were an abandoned car with a shattered window, I can't see that kind of police response. There had to be a dozen police at the scene.

 

[KariKae]

I also cannot fathom why these women would stop at this location. I keep think the car had to have been placed there, but if so, why? There are plenty of more rural places to hide (or sink) a car. If it was placed there, the perps wanted it to be found.

 

[KariKae]

I believe whatever went down happened so quickly... plus they might have thought the kids were in the other vehicle. I think they were blindsided with little time to react. Plus, if there happened to be two perps.. one on each side of vehicle, then Jilian wouldn't have been able to run. And where would she run on that desolate highway that she wasn't familiar with?

Like they used the car the children WOULD be in as "bait" and the women stopped thinking they would do the exchange on the side of the road. When they stopped, two perps came on each side of the vehicle, did the deed, and removed the bodies.

 

[Allobara]

I’ve been thinking about why the car would be placed on the street if it was staged and IMO I could see the perps (wrongfully) assuming that dropping the car in a noticeable location somewhere before the destination could be less suspicious for them than the car just outright disappearing. Maybe under the impression that it could be more likely attributed to a random kidnapping if it was found on the way there like it was.

 

[doublestop]

I’ve been thinking about why the car would be placed on the street if it was staged and IMO I could see the perps (wrongfully) assuming that dropping the car in a noticeable location somewhere before the destination could be less suspicious for them than the car just outright disappearing. Maybe under the impression that it could be more likely attributed to a random kidnapping if it was found on the way there like it was.

They have to dispose of the car somewhere, so put it somewhere quite public, rather than trying to find a place in the flat, treeless panhandle.

 

[NDreu]

I still can’t wrap my mind around what would cause these ladies to stop in this location, unless something happened elsewhere and the vehicle was moved.

I wonder what alerted authorities to the scene? They were already present when the relatives arrived. Was it a passerby that saw the car and reported it? Did the relatives themselves call authorities to report they had lost contact with the women? Did a social worker receive a call from the children’s guardian that the women failed to show at their appointed designation? This is one piece to the puzzle that would be helpful to know.

Passerby called 911. Law enforcement arrived and fiance and husband of victims showed up.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Right. And I play this scenario through my mind in various ways. But in every instance, the glass was undoubtedly shattered from the outside in. From there the perpetrator would need to reach inside and unlock the door and extract the victim. Close contact with the vehicle would be a certainty.

If the perpetrator reached inside for the women, still alive, it is likely he/she might be scratched up pretty much and when found, the women will have identifying skin under their fingernails.

 

[shefner]

Passerby called 911. Law enforcement arrived and fiance and husband of victims showed up.

Thanks! I missed this. Was this in a news article? It's hard to keep up with them sometimes.

 

[CuriousCricket]

They have to dispose of the car somewhere, so put it somewhere quite public, rather than trying to find a place in the flat, treeless panhandle.

Time may have been critical. Take the women and try to come back for the car, but it was found very early on so no time. Perhaps they misjudged the amount of traffic on the road or that someone would call it in. You know, I've seen numerous vehicles parked along the road over the years and never once thought to call it in as abandoned . . . how many of you would call it in? I figure they're hunting, or fishing or hiking or met friends and went in one car. How often are vehicles called in as abandoned when it's been there an hour or less?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Thanks! I missed this. Was this in a news article? It's hard to keep up with them sometimes.

Passerby called 911. Law enforcement arrived and fiance and husband of victims showed up.

Do we have this substantiated. This sequence is quite important, so hope you can add the link.

I guess the reason I find this so important is..... why would so much LE show up for a "simple" 911 call about a stranded vehicle. Or did the 911 include much more??????

I am pretty sure we have had it substantiated that there was extensive LE presence when the husbands showed up.
but best state imo....

 

[Hestia's Fire]

Time may have been critical. Take the women and try to come back for the car, but it was found very early on so no time. Perhaps they misjudged the amount of traffic on the road or that someone would call it in. You know, I've seen numerous vehicles parked along the road over the years and never once thought to call it in as abandoned . . . how many of you would call it in? I figure they're hunting, or fishing or hiking or met friends and went in one car. How often are vehicles called in as abandoned when it's been there an hour or less?

I definitely wouldn't call in any old random car on the side of the road, but if I saw a car on the side of the road with a window smashed in, I probably would. Someone might need medical attention in that case, or someone might have decided to rob a parked car.

 

[shefner]

Do we have this substantiated. This sequence is quite important, so hope you can add the link.

I guess the reason I find this so important is..... why would so much LE show up for a "simple" 911 call about a stranded vehicle. Or did the 911 include much more??????

I am pretty sure we have had it substantiated that there was extensive LE presence when the husbands showed up.
but best state imo....

Thanks for your comments here @nhmemorymaker

You are right. It helps to differentiate between material facts and hearsay, otherwise it adds to the existing confusion.

I am thinking like you. If I passed by an abandoned car for a few days, I might call it in. But not if I've only seen it there a brief time because I would assume the owner is planning to return for it.

The only reason I would call about a recently abandoned vehicle is if it appeared to be a crime scene. I would call if I noticed the doors were standing open, windows were shattered out, or if there was blood, scattered clothing, etc.