**Old thread**Focusing solely on George Anthony

[KenoshaKid]

Could someone explain to me the difference between being a sherrif and being a police officer? Where I live each town has it's own police department with officers and then we also have the County Sherrif's Office. I have never understood the relationship/difference. Anyone??

In a small jurisdiction, the sheriff's dept acts as county police. In a larger one where there is county police, the sheriff's dept is responsible for the transportation of prisoners and also their supervision when in court. The Sheriff is an *elected* position, so all that goes along with politics goes along with the position. It is not unusual for the new Sheriff to hire his "own people", so being a deputy is not as secure as traditional LE job-wise. Among cops, deputies are pretty low on the food chain and not highly regarded. They have less training and are often considered "big and dumb".

City, county and university police do regular policing mainly within their own jurisdictions but do have overlap. State police mainly patrol state highways but are also involved in multi-jurisdictional investigations state-wide.

HTH

 

[countzero]

Since Caylee's decomp was found in the trunk we know Caylee was in the trunk. If Casey killed Caylee at home and walked her to the woods there would not have been Caylee's decomp in the trunk.

The Sunfire could have EASILY been parked there at the street and Casey only would have to take about a couple of dozen steps into the shady and wooded area to dump Caylee. If you look at the crime scene photos from the location of the body to the street you see how close it really was (but likely slightly under water and very wooded). Casey was just so lazy and the Hurricane worked in her favor by further flooding the area.

Well the fact that someone removed the items from the site the other evening without anyone seeing them do it, I can now without hesitation believe that KC or GA put Caylee there without anyone noticing it.

 

[Brini]

Why would he be sneaking behind Cindy and Lee's backs to go speak with LE? Why did he continue to tell LE about the smell of death in the car, even after Cindy changed her story? Why did he flip out on Casey when she came home on bail, saying something like "that b!tch in there knows what happened to Caylee" (and this is factual, Tim Miller and another person not related to this family heard it.)

Why did he share with LE what a lousy person his daughter is? The stealing from Caylee's piggy bank, from Cindy's purse? The fake robbery of his and Cindy's (tax?) money that Casey was supposed to deposit for them when she was working her fake job at the sporting goods store?

I feel that the information he was giving to police gave them more reason to focus in on her than they would have had he not told him the things he did abouther. He kept saying "I just don't like the smell of that car, i know that smell, I have smelt it before and you can't forget that smell". If he were involved why would he practically shove Casey under the bus, I don't think he's that dumb, he's got to realize that if she goes down he's gonna too. It makes no sense that he would continue to talk about her, causing LE to investigate her farther. Might as well put his own handcuffs on.

Unless he's pointing them in her direction because he is covering for someone else and is trying to set Casey up..

Littlebitty, I hope you feel better soon and that your chemo is a success!! :blowkiss:

I think he knows what happened and is conflicted. He knows KC did it, but CA rules.

 

[steadychick]

I truly do not believe that GA had anything to do with Caylee's death or helped KC after the fact. However, I strongly believe he knows more and has changed his stories because he does not want to be the reason his daughter goes to prison. GA KNEW his daughter was not working, he KNEW the smell in the car was decomp, he KNEW that his daughter knew what had happened to Caylee. And IIRC, one of the reasons he gave for his attempted suicide, either in the note or spoken to someone, was that he couldn't live with the lies anymore. Hopefully something will happen or come out now that will cause him to return to the George we saw early on -- the George that went to LE with his concerns and fears.

 

[Bittiness39]

Ty all for your well wishes.
As far as GA is concerned...the 24th and gas can incident concerns me.
Too much about his behavior concerns me. Even if CA probably wears the pants and is a total bull dozer. I just now, feel that, GA helped in some way to get rid of Caylee after the fact. I don't think CA participated in that part of it...only after the fact...after Caylee was sadly already disposed of. There is just too much on tape that doesn't make sense. Even the interviews. Even if you don't like CA, which I even don't, I do feel like CA was genuinely probing KC for answers in the jailhouse visit while GA stays silent...says nothing..asks virtually nothing...at one point, unless I am incorrect, KC is irritated solely because she would rather speak to GA...I can understand the sentiment.
But during the three 911 calls...the one in which CA is telling KC that they will go to court...she is not having that conversation in a vacuum or for show..she was being transferred...that part of the conversation was legit in my humble opinion. Same for LA's comment when KC first called home after being arrested...after all you have put mom through. I genuinely believe that part of it...that wasn't sweeping up stuff...to me those were legit reactions on CA's part.

I don't understand how GA can drive the death mobile all the way home from the lot and just go to work that same day. First day on the job or not. Something does not jive with him seeing KC on the 24th of June. It just doesn't. The car had to have started smelling. Period. even if KC texted AH on the 25th to say it was smelling...it was smelling before that. I don't believe Caylee was in the A's backyard all that time, because apparently from all I have seen, they don't walk those two little dogs. I am guessing they let them out in the back yard to go to the bathroom however many times a day. If there had been a dead Caylee even for a few days/hours in that yard, the dogs would have gone nuts. JMO.

The 24th to me is a much bigger key than I wanted to consider a few months ago. JMO.

Thanks to everyone for the well wishes.

 

[Darla]

This has always been my understanding as well. The A residence, like our own, sits outside of city limits even though we have an Orlando adress. Therefore we have OCSO overseeing us as opposed to the Orlando police. It is interesting though, to ask what happens within city limits? Can OCSO be involved in the investigation of a crime that has OPD jurisdiction?

Does anyone know of specific research done on GA's job history/experience w/LE? Perhaps in the sticky section?

If GA is truly over-embelishing his LE experience, it might be worth noting in the family profile. Maybe KC isn't the only one who lies about her work.

Bold by me

Whatever his experience w/LE, I assume somewhere during that time he discovered what a dead body smells like and will never forget that smell. :waitasec: It smells like spoiled food. Yeah, that's right, he remembers it smells like spoiled food, you know, sort of like rotting pizza (does pizza even rot?) and maggots.

MO

 

[Darla]

The main thing for me...is how did Caylee wind up where she did? Clearly, KC didn't toss her out the window of the car...(this whole thing sickens me)...but did KC, herself, carry Caylee from the A house to Caylee's ultimate resting place? Or was a car parked outside that area and then did someone take her body (hate this) out of the trunk and dump her there? This bears weight only if, and only if it would have been some task. Even though we can't really comment on appearances...before all of the jail treats...KC was a small person. I don't know what her height is...or weight was at the time...but judging by photos she appears to be fairly smalll...cute little figure...I just keep trying to tell myself...or at least someone posted on here that there was some kind of trail Caylee type trail from the house to the spot where she was so caulously dumped...if that is true...how in the world...granted stress and self preservation make one do some weird things...could KC have carried her that far? I just...think that there is more to the dumping, however horrible...that could shed some light on this...if KC dumped her during the day how didn't anyone see or notice anything? If it was at night...was it by car or through the woods? I read something in this board about a trail...but if that were true I would think it would be everywhere by now...unless that is the last bit of stuff LE is releasing...I am just thinking 50 pound or so riggamortis child...sorry for the thought.
I am just thinking that someone larger than KC had to dispose of her body and likely on the night of the 24th. JMO, but I think it was GA and I think Caylee was dumped there on the night of the 24th. The day of the effing gas can fight. I could be totally wrong. And both of them deserve the presumption of innocence.

I really think it had something to do with the 24th. I think Casey probably took off like a bat outta hell fearing her father might decide to follow her and quickly turned the corner, jumped out, grabbed the bag (as someone here said, probably tore the bag which leaked decomp so the smell became stronger by the time the car was picked up) ran quickly (not far) into the woods and flung the bag. Can you imagine the adrenaline rush she had? Forget her size - she became The Hulk for those few seconds. She had to get that bag out of the car fast before he caught up with her. I believe that's the reason Caylee was so close to home.

I can see where you're coming from and I tried to go there but then thought Nah..I'm letting my imagination get the best of me. But you could be right.

I really think George just knew the truth in his heart/mind and he let it go too far and now it's all about the cover up. I believe even if she is acquitted eek, George will never be able to talk to Casey again. How could he????

 

[zoomom]

Since Caylee's decomp was found in the trunk logic dictates Caylee was in the trunk. If Casey killed Caylee at home and carried her directly to the woods there would not have been Caylee's decomp in the trunk. I think it probably happened in the home or in the car and then Caylee was dumped from the car.

The Sunfire could have EASILY been parked there at the street at Surburban and Casey only would have to take about a couple of dozen steps into the shady and wooded area to dump Caylee. If you look at the crime scene photos from the location of the body to the street you see how close it really was (but likely under water and definitely very wooded). Casey was just so lazy and the Hurricane worked in her favor by further flooding the area later.

Casey is about 5'1" and was fit when she was arrested (and she reportedly was a jogger). Casey also would hold/carry Caylee so we know she can lift her up. Caylee would not have been in rigor mortis by the time she was dumped (according the level of decomp in the trunk of 3 days) as rigor sets in and then leaves the body.

I absolutely have no problems believing Casey could handle Caylee's remains and if she had not been so damn lazy could have carried her much further and even buried her.

OMG! I never even thought about rigor mortis!!!!!!!!!!! In the movies the "body" always looks like dead/limp weight.......but in real life, what actually takes place is


sorry if this was offensive.

The entire concept of REALLY killing a kid is beyond my scope of reality.

 

[PPlayer]

GA has always confused me, I do think he knew very early on, and possibly was trying to help cover for KC even before it broke.

I told a friend about Caylee missing as soon as it came out, early Aug I told her the baby was dead, this is also when I stopped following the case for all intents and purposes until very recently. She asked me if they had found the body, and my response was, (From memory) "No, but the grandfather knows and if he knows it, then she must be."

I will have to go back and find exactly what made me think that way, but it had to do with him talking several times about Caylee that I took as being in the past tense as the major indicator. There were other minor things as well, but all combined I just could not see it any other way.

I still believe he knows much more than he is saying, and he knew right off she was dead. For me it is just when he actually knew it for a fact, and if his involvement is more than just trying to cover it up for KC.

 

[LinasK]

You are correct. County Sheriff's Dept's handle the unincorporated areas of a county.

Although my city has had cityhood for over 20 years, we contract for police services through the county sheriff. They drive city police cars, but our P.D. are actually employees of the county sheriff's dept.

 

[akashana]

I guess for me it was that last interview. GA looking down...everywhere but at the camera. I would have said three weeks ago...hey CA is in control and he can't talk...and he wants to...but her demeanor is far different from his, sure, defiant and lying at times openly, but he seems to know more. JMO. His demeanor in the jail house tapes...going back over them tonite sealed it for me. CA is actively questioning, her voice hits the frantic, at some notes, but she is writing it all down, trying, coming up with something, and at some point KC loses it, gets angry...but during her tirade, which I assume her father can also hear, he continues to look down, almost disinterested. It is weird to me. even if CA wears the pants...I still feel like, he wanted to be a cop for some reason...you would think during most of that visit he would appear like he was actively listening and also taking notes...you don't become a cop because you don't want to know what happens...you become a cop so you can catch the bad guy, find out the truth, save the innocent...and his demeanor more so over KC's is the most troubling to me in the video. I still hope KC fries by the way...but her demeanor, given what we think we know about her is understandable...his is not. I sincerely hope LE re-examines him.

I know what you mean about his inability to look into the camera. I still tend to believe that it is because he knows, or believes strongly, that KC is guilty, yet he is forced by Cindy to parrot the party line and keep drinking the Kool-Aid. I think that is the genesis for his guilt and that his LE background chafes at the inner conflict between the two. For whatever reason, Cindy has decided that she will defend Casey to the end and expects George to follow suit.

I don't see George as a man capable of assisting KC with a murder cover-up when the victim was his precious granddaughter. If KC had killed an abusive lover, maybe. But you can see from the photos and videos that he dearly loved Caylee. He appears a husk of the man he was last summer, in my opinion. I think he wrestles now with his conscience about his public position, and I think that's why his efforts come across as half-hearted and his demeanor is evasive. I tend to have a great deal more sympathy for him and his position than I do with Cindy. I think if, early in the investigation when KC was in jail, George had been allowed a visit alone with her without Baez, without Cindy, I think he might have broken through KC's veil of lies and gotten her to come clean. I also think that ship sailed many months ago, and that for whatever reasons, the course is now charted in an entirely different direction.

 

[LinasK]

Ty all for your well wishes.
As far as GA is concerned...the 24th and gas can incident concerns me.
Too much about his behavior concerns me. Even if CA probably wears the pants and is a total bull dozer. I just now, feel that, GA helped in some way to get rid of Caylee after the fact. I don't think CA participated in that part of it...only after the fact...after Caylee was sadly already disposed of. There is just too much on tape that doesn't make sense. Even the interviews. Even if you don't like CA, which I even don't, I do feel like CA was genuinely probing KC for answers in the jailhouse visit while GA stays silent...says nothing..asks virtually nothing...at one point, unless I am incorrect, KC is irritated solely because she would rather speak to GA...I can understand the sentiment.
But during the three 911 calls...the one in which CA is telling KC that they will go to court...she is not having that conversation in a vacuum or for show..she was being transferred...that part of the conversation was legit in my humble opinion. Same for LA's comment when KC first called home after being arrested...after all you have put mom through. I genuinely believe that part of it...that wasn't sweeping up stuff...to me those were legit reactions on CA's part.

I don't understand how GA can drive the death mobile all the way home from the lot and just go to work that same day. First day on the job or not. Something does not jive with him seeing KC on the 24th of June. It just doesn't. The car had to have started smelling. Period. even if KC texted AH on the 25th to say it was smelling...it was smelling before that. I don't believe Caylee was in the A's backyard all that time, because apparently from all I have seen, they don't walk those two little dogs. I am guessing they let them out in the back yard to go to the bathroom however many times a day. If there had been a dead Caylee even for a few days/hours in that yard, the dogs would have gone nuts. JMO.

The 24th to me is a much bigger key than I wanted to consider a few months ago. JMO.

Thanks to everyone for the well wishes.

Okay, I have a question I can't find in the Calendar. George and the gas cans happened on June 24th, we now know Caylee was dead by then. What date did they retrieve the car from the Towing company? Was that on July 14th, 15th or earlier? The reason I'm asking is to figure out the earliest when Cindy knew. Could she have known by July 3rd when she wrote the MySpace entry???

 

[akashana]

Very interesting thread Little Bitty. I hope that you are doing well through your chemo :blowkiss:

I have definitely changed my view on GA during the past few months, however, I'm not sure if he's directly involved in assisting with disposing with Caylee's remains. The problem that I have is the way that she was disposed.. i.e. duct tape over her mouth, and bagged in trash bags. Right now, (and I may change as time goes on) I can't see him assisting KC with disposing of Caylee in that manner. The duct tape over her mouth with the heart sticker really bothers me. I may be wrong though. Also, KC's pants had decomposition fluid on them and CA washed them. Why wouldn't GA take KC's clothes and wash them with his? If he assisted, his clothes had to have the fluid on them.

As far as KC having help in disposing of Caylee's body from someone, I'm not sure. After someone dies, the weight of their body is significantly heavier than when they are alive, hence the term "dead weight." So if Caylee weighed 30 lbs., it would have felt as if she weighed about 50 or 60 lbs to pull her out of the trunk because of the complete stillness and inflexibility of the body.

I believe that GA knows that KC did this to Caylee and knew it when he drove the car home. The smell of human decomposition is distinct, and there is absolutely no other smell like it. So he knew when he went to that car what had happened and he knew then that it had been Caylee in that car. He put 2 and 2 together on that day. But as far as helping her with disposal....maybe. It's possible...I can't get myself there yet. Not with the duct tape and the garbage bags. It's hard enough the think that a mother would do that, but for a grandfather to assist...

On the other hand....I'm sitting here thinking that it could be possible that he assisted her after she already had her bagged and then he found out about the duct tape and heart sticker and that's what drove him to suicide. I don't know....

This is an interesting thread. Alot to think about for sure!!!

***Bolded by me***

That's actually a common misconception, that dead bodies weigh more than they did in life. In death we are the same weight as we were alive, give or take a few debatable ounces (such as mentioned in the movie 21 Grams). About 12-18 hours after death, IIRC, is when rigor mortis is at its fullest state, and could definitely have presented some problems for moving and disposal, which is one possible reason KC may have waited the 2.5 days with little Caylee in the trunk. She missed the initial window of opportunity to dispose of her shortly after her death, for whatever reason. Maybe the idea skeeved her too much at first, or she was in panic mode, or simply in a hurry to go watch movies with Tony. But she missed her chance, and then the body had become rigid and unwieldy. So she waited some more, and post mortem changes took place, the leakage, the decomp, the smell. She knew she had a big problem, and it was only going to get worse. So she bit the bullet and dumped her at the first place she could find, which was right down the street. I personally can't see where George helped her with this. I certainly feel that if she had turned to her dad for this and he did help in any way that he would have made sure that the remains were far removed from the Anthony home. That just seems to make sense. To me the body being found so close to home smacks of desperation and a sort of laziness that we have already seen manifested in KC. I think all can agree she tends to fly by the seat of her pants without a firm plan. In the 2.5 days between Caylee's death and when she was dumped, one would think that KC could have formulated a much better plan. At that time nobody was looking for her and KC certainly had money to party. She could have driven out of town or even out of state and dumped her somewhere she never could be found. And yet she didn't, choosing instead to hang around and party hearty. That to me indicates she acted alone, and I have yet to see any evidence pointing towards anyone other than her.

 

[Forensic fan]

Ty all for your well wishes.
As far as GA is concerned...the 24th and gas can incident concerns me.
Too much about his behavior concerns me. Even if CA probably wears the pants and is a total bull dozer. I just now, feel that, GA helped in some way to get rid of Caylee after the fact. I don't think CA participated in that part of it...only after the fact...after Caylee was sadly already disposed of. There is just too much on tape that doesn't make sense. Even the interviews. Even if you don't like CA, which I even don't, I do feel like CA was genuinely probing KC for answers in the jailhouse visit while GA stays silent...says nothing..asks virtually nothing...at one point, unless I am incorrect, KC is irritated solely because she would rather speak to GA...I can understand the sentiment.
But during the three 911 calls...the one in which CA is telling KC that they will go to court...she is not having that conversation in a vacuum or for show..she was being transferred...that part of the conversation was legit in my humble opinion. Same for LA's comment when KC first called home after being arrested...after all you have put mom through. I genuinely believe that part of it...that wasn't sweeping up stuff...to me those were legit reactions on CA's part.

I don't understand how GA can drive the death mobile all the way home from the lot and just go to work that same day. First day on the job or not. Something does not jive with him seeing KC on the 24th of June. It just doesn't. The car had to have started smelling. Period. even if KC texted AH on the 25th to say it was smelling...it was smelling before that. I don't believe Caylee was in the A's backyard all that time, because apparently from all I have seen, they don't walk those two little dogs. I am guessing they let them out in the back yard to go to the bathroom however many times a day. If there had been a dead Caylee even for a few days/hours in that yard, the dogs would have gone nuts. JMO. The 24th to me is a much bigger key than I wanted to consider a few months ago. JMO.

Thanks to everyone for the well wishes.

C&BBM - Colored & Bolded by me
I bet that is why he put the lime on the yard, that was done over the July 4th weekend wasn't it?

 

[aafromaa]

Can you tell me what that "small" town was? I'd heard it was Warren, Ohio, which isn't all that small, but perhaps it is indeed so small, that Warren was the closest "big" city nearby. Thanks!

maybe this will help

www.vindy.com/news/2008/jul/27/family-of-missing-child-has-valley-ties/

It's a local article written shortly after Caylee was reported missing, and quotes the current Trumbull County Sheriff who says he worked with GA when both were in the detective division.

(1st time I've posted a link - hope I did it right - if you post a link instead of quote the article does that take care of copyright laws?)

 

[Debbie3223]

Dang. you guys are smart...

i just read and read..

. and now Punkin has dumped grape kool-aid on the carpet...ugh...

I need a maid..
keep up the good work everyone!


and i hope your recovery goes great littlebity...

 

[ecs5298]

As they said, George knows a lot about a lot of things. The one fact that really does it for me was the smell of decomp. In George's interview he goes into great detail about how he know's what that smell is.

He is correct in his statements. I can tell you, based on personal experience, that human decomposition has a uniquely putrid odor. Once you've smelled it, you never forget it. The first time I smelled it, it lingered in my nostrils for days. I'd turn my head and seem to catch a whiff of it everywhere. Anyone who's been involved in public safety knows what that smells like and instantly knows what it means. George knew what it meant. The instant he smelled it he knew that Caylee was dead. His only fear at the tow yard was that she would be in the trunk when he opened it. George was the first one to know that Caylee was dead. His statement to LE that if his granddaughter is dead then he's lost his daughter too shows me that he also know's that KC is responsible for Caylee's death. He seemed willing, in the beginning, to stand up for what is right. CA has managed to strangle that out of him so that he now totes the family line. I wish he'd grow another set and stand up for what is right.

JMHO as always.

 

[TripleA]

IMO:

GA smelled the decomp when he opened the trunk on the 24th, confronted Casey immediately (since CA was not home), Casey gave him an accident sob story, GA went into immediate cover-up mode and directed Casey on getting rid of the car and other evidence (maybe even thinking that they could get the car stolen and blame a car-jacking). GA assumed/hoped that the car had been stolen until they received the notice from the tow company. At that point he tried to clean up the car himself and went to work to avoid interrogation from CA. When he got home and realized that CA had found Casey and called the cops, he told CA the whole story (or the whole lie since it was based off of Casey's initial BS) and then an in-shock CA went into cover-up mode as well. I think that everyone in that family knows what GA's involvement was and so he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't at this point.

 

[debbie0604]

Your post is sounding like what is in my brain---only have had more time to focus in a little deeper.

I think he smelled the car on the 24th---started his own investigation---CA didn't know what was going on at this time-but they were looking for her. At this time GA knew Caylee was dead. He found out she hadn't worked for 2 years (via FBI interview)---most of his investigation was told by him in this interview----stuff he had put together---money stolen CA/Caylee's piggy bank---the way she acted.

Now--on to the car pick up---he was afraid the body was in the wheel well, because not even an idiot would flop it in the trunk---when he got the tow guy to "witness" him opening the trunk---he then had to hurry and git the guys mind off the smell----off with the trash, hoping the guy would remember the smell must have been that trash.

When they got home he sent CA to work----he removed the body from the wheel well and put it in the laundry bag----------the body had been duct taped/heart sticker/in double trash bags, by KC----GA didn't see the duct tape or heart.

I get stuck right here---did he take the body down the road right then or did he hid it from CA until much later----say, on his way to work. All that would explain why they had to go to work at all. If there weren't any cleaning up to do and disposing of a dead grand daughter---they would have called 911 RAT NOW. But they didn't.

Just bits and pieces that have run thru my brain and coagulated into one spot.

That's alot to think about...but I can't see Caylee fitting into the wheel well. I did a little research on the type of car KC was driving and I think it came with a "spacesaver steel rim wheel space" which is smaller than the average wheels on the car. I think the average wheels are something like 16 inches in diameter? I don't know.. I can't see Caylee's body fitting in that small wheel well.. but then I may be wrong. She could have been covered with other things.

KC backed up in the garage and then borrowed a shovel from her neighbor. The cadaver dogs hit in the backyard. If GA assisted her, wouldn't they have hit else where in the house? If he sent CA to work and then placed the body in the laundry bag, did he do that in the back yard where neighbors would possibly see? By this time, the car had the smell in it, so the dogs would definitely have hit in the garage if he had taken the bag out in the garage.

It's alot to think about.

 

[debbie0604]

I truly do not believe that GA had anything to do with Caylee's death or helped KC after the fact. However, I strongly believe he knows more and has changed his stories because he does not want to be the reason his daughter goes to prison. GA KNEW his daughter was not working, he KNEW the smell in the car was decomp, he KNEW that his daughter knew what had happened to Caylee. And IIRC, one of the reasons he gave for his attempted suicide, either in the note or spoken to someone, was that he couldn't live with the lies anymore. Hopefully something will happen or come out now that will cause him to return to the George we saw early on -- the George that went to LE with his concerns and fears.

I respectfully understand your position. I used to believe that too.... until I saw his focus change to protecting KC instead of justice for Caylee. I realized that with him knowing that the smell in the car was the smell of death and his granddaughter was missing, he did not call the police. At first I blindly thought it was just denial. I thought he was a doting loving grandfather that was in denial that his missing granddaughter may be dead. It wasn't until after Caylee was found murdered that I saw his true colors revealed. The ZG deposition did it for me. His attacking the attorneys who are trying to clear that poor woman who was dragged into this mess for no reason. All he seems to care about is protecting KC with lies and lies and lies.

All I hope is that this trial brings out the truth about KC and that justice is served for Caylee. I also hope that if the A's were involved (which I don't know if they were, but if they were), they are prosecuted as well. JMO