Omaha double murder

[noZme]

Please pardon this intrusion....I'm at the coast & for unknown reasons, I cannot send a PM from my laptop. Snick, would you forward to me the info you spoke of in the previous post? Thank you for keeping this thread going; I check here regularly & like everyone else am gobsmacked. Someone is getting away with a double homicide!

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

Thanks for your post and interest- it is always nice to have local people involved.
If you have read back through the many posts in this thread you can see almost every possible angle debated. a year or more later and I am still confused. I have had fellow WSers tell me this is one of the most baffling cases they've encountered. Mainly due to utter lack of motive. You get the feeling that the perp wanted it to possibly look like a serial killer but wasn't.
The idea of Shirlee being the primary target has been around for some time and from what I understand that was what LE thought for the first few months. That went nowhere, and now that her family has put up reward money I doubt it strongly.
There have been rumors of all kinds of things, some of which I won't post on the board- you can send me a private message if you want to know what they are- it is all speculation.
I am not a mental health professional- but, the level of rage involved in these killings suggests some sexual element.
I just hope the LE guy that screwed up the forensic evidence was not involved in this one. Take care.

Thanks, Snick. I should have read the previous posts more thoroughly. :blushing: I just can't understand the lack of coverage. I'll keep hoping for a break in the case.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Welcome noZme and TheMeaningOf It All!

I'm so glad to see you both here. It's great to have some new folks with new ideas to sleuth. This is such a baffling case and we always need new theories. Please keep posting!
matilda

 

[Columbo]

I have this strong feeling that the Hunter boy was the only target and the killer may not have even know there would be a housekeeper at the house the day of the murder.

I still keep thinking it is someone with whom the boy was connected to through school, church, scouts or some other outside activity connected with sports or school clubs.......someone who had fixated on the boy for some reason.

Could he have attempted to kidnap the boy and the housekeeper tried to intervene? If that's the case, she would have been the first one stabbed and then the boy stabbed because he witnessed the whole thing. The more I think about this possibility, the more plausible it becomes. Wealthy parents, possible ransom????

Sorry if I am digressing or going off topic here--I am responding to this post because Yellow Dog you say that you think the boy was the target.

I have only read up to page 10 of this thread, so I apologize if anyone else has mentioned this earlier, but according to what I have read, supposedly there is a huge underground pedophile ring in Omaha, and the police aren't dealing with it--possibly because some of them are involved in some way? This Johnny Gosch website goes into detail about it. Johnny Gosch was kidnapped in 1982 in Des Moines, IA, but I think there is some connection to Omaha. Supposedly he actually came home a few years ago, for a few hours to see his mother, but had to return to whoever had taken him. Someone accompanied him on this trip home.

This link shows a tour of Omaha and the areas where the pedophiles operate--the video was filmed by a victim of the pedophile ring as I recall. It's been a while since I looked at this site and the links attached to it, so I'm sorry if my memory is a little off, but it is pretty astounding, scary, and blood-curdling. There's so much secrecy involved-- it's just so strange. It (the pedophile ring) may not have anything to do with this case, but I wonder.
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

LINK NOT RECOMMENDED FOR THE FAINT OF HEART ! Informative but graphic. (thanks matilda!)

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Sorry if I am digressing or going off topic here--I am responding to this post because Yellow Dog you say that you think the boy was the target.

I have only read up to page 10 of this thread, so I apologize if anyone else has mentioned this earlier, but according to what I have read, supposedly there is a huge underground pedophile ring in Omaha, and the police aren't dealing with it--possibly because some of them are involved in some way? This Johnny Gosch website goes into detail about it. Johnny Gosch was kidnapped in 1982 in Des Moines, IA, but I think there is some connection to Omaha. Supposedly he actually came home a few years ago, for a few hours to see his mother, but had to return to whoever had taken him. Someone accompanied him on this trip home.

This link shows a tour of Omaha and the areas where the pedophiles operate--the video was filmed by a victim of the pedophile ring as I recall. It's been a while since I looked at this site and the links attached to it, so I'm sorry if my memory is a little off, but it is pretty astounding, scary, and blood-curdling. There's so much secrecy involved-- it's just so strange. It (the pedophile ring) may not have anything to do with this case, but I wonder.
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

Columbo, Thanks so much for this valuable information and the link. :clap: I've had a gut feeling about a sinister and perverse element to this case. I too feel that young Tom was the target since the Housekeeper was there on a day that she wasn't normally there. And I've wondered, why would someone put a hit on a young boy? What type of persons would do this? We've suspected more than one person as the perp and Tuba, one of our WS astros, confirmed this on the forensic astrology thread. (I think there's a link to that forum from Snick 1 or 2 pages back) My feeling is there are some very powerful people involved who could face ruin if found out and that's why this case has received such little attention. Money talks. LE is overworked and underpaid and I've been curious about a possible cover up. It sure seems that way, IMPO. Please keep posting. The info you have shared is valuable. Off the read the disturbing info in the link now.....feeling dread.

Thanks bunches! matilda

 

[waltzingmatilda]

OMG! I would not recommend that link for the faint of heart! Very informative but graphic!

 

[Columbo]

Columbo, Thanks so much for this valuable information and the link. :clap: I've had a gut feeling about a sinister and perverse element to this case. I too feel that young Tom was the target since the Housekeeper was there on a day that she wasn't normally there. And I've wondered, why would someone put a hit on a young boy? What type of persons would do this? We've suspected more than one person as the perp and Tuba, one of our WS astros, confirmed this on the forensic astrology thread. (I think there's a link to that forum from Snick 1 or 2 pages back) My feeling is there are some very powerful people involved who could face ruin if found out and that's why this case has received such little attention. Money talks. LE is overworked and underpaid and I've been curious about a possible cover up. It sure seems that way, IMPO. Please keep posting. The info you have shared is valuable. Off the read the disturbing info in the link now.....feeling dread.

Thanks bunches! matilda

You're welcome, matilda!

I guess I should have issued a warning with the link--it's very disturbing. Almost makes a person wonder if it's for real, but I think it is. What you say about "powerful persons who could face ruin if found out" is absolutely right-on.

I've been reading this thread for awhile and wondered why no one seemed to quite zero in on the sinister pedophile goings-on in Omaha. Maybe I've been on planet earth longer and know about more of these cases, such as Johnny Gosch. Also--I just happened upon all this info while reading other threads on Websleuths.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

You're welcome, matilda!

I guess I should have issued a warning with the link--it's very disturbing. Almost makes a person wonder if it's for real, but I think it is. What you say about "powerful persons who could face ruin if found out" is absolutely right-on.

I've been reading this thread for awhile and wondered why no one seemed to quite zero in on the sinister pedophile goings-on in Omaha. Maybe I've been on planet earth longer and know about more of these cases, such as Johnny Gosch. Also--I just happened upon all this info while reading other threads on Websleuths.

Columbo, Oh It's very real IMO! One reads news stories about pedophile rings but those stories never include images of the shocking truth! I admire Johnny's mother for her brave advocacy in broaching and creating awareness of this very sensitive subject. My prayers are with them. I cannot even imagine the hell......:furious:

Excellent sleuthing Columbo! You did a great job making these connections which could be a viable theory!

matilda

 

[YellowDog]

Hi Columbo:
That was very interesting information you posted. This might even give us a clue as to why Omaha LE did not want AMW filming an episode about these murders. Maybe they were afraid they would be exposing this seamy side of Omaha.

Those 3 videos of downtown Omaha posted are amazing. All of this pedophilia and prostitution going on right beneath the noses of the police speaks volumes.

As far as Noreen Gosch, I'm wondering why she was unable to give police sufficient information about the person who supposedly brought her son to visit her such as type of vehicle, license plate number, etc. and why no one saw the person leaving the envelope with the photos on her front step. Just a couple of things that "stuck out" to me as strange.

I wonder if the YMCA wher the Hunter boy played basketball was in the downtown area?

Thanks for posting that information.

 

[Columbo]

Columbo, Oh It's very real IMO! One reads news stories about pedophile rings but those stories never include images of the shocking truth! I admire Johnny's mother for her brave advocacy in broaching and creating awareness of this very sensitive subject. My prayers are with them. I cannot even imagine the hell......:furious:

Excellent sleuthing Columbo! You did a great job making these connections which could be a viable theory!

matilda

Thank you, matilda.
It really must be a living hell for Johnny's mother. She was so brave to come forward when obviously, she must be in some kind of danger (or else her advocacy puts her son in danger).

 

[Columbo]

Hi Columbo:
That was very interesting information you posted. This might even give us a clue as to why Omaha LE did not want AMW filming an episode about these murders. Maybe they were afraid they would be exposing this seamy side of Omaha.

Those 3 videos of downtown Omaha posted are amazing. All of this pedophilia and prostitution going on right beneath the noses of the police speaks volumes.

As far as Noreen Gosch, I'm wondering why she was unable to give police sufficient information about the person who supposedly brought her son to visit her such as type of vehicle, license plate number, etc. and why no one saw the person leaving the envelope with the photos on her front step. Just a couple of things that "stuck out" to me as strange.

I wonder if the YMCA wher the Hunter boy played basketball was in the downtown area?

Thanks for posting that information.

You're welcome, Yellow Dog.

I wondered why she was unable to give the police information as well. That part was very strange--maybe she was scared, threatened, or feared for her son's life. I also don't understand why he doesn't just leave the captors. If he could visit his mother--and he's an adult--why not just escape? It's all pretty weird.

That is an astute thought about the Hunter boy possibly playing basketball in the downtown area!

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

That website is shocking. I had no idea things like that went on in Omaha. I've kept up on the registered sex offenders and all that stuff, but it's terrifying to think there are many more underground that just haven't been caught. I suppose I've been naive. Maybe that IS what is going on in the H. case. The video on that website about Btwn was incredibly scary.

 

[Skully]

Back in the 70's I don't remember the exact year, my brother join a group - he said like the Peace Corp and was taken to Iowa and he ended up fighting to get out of there. He said it was a prison or a camp and he couldn't leave. He was like 16 or 17 at the time. He called home after he got out and said he needed money wired to him to get a bus home. My brother had a bad habit of lying and My parents wired the money but they never looked into what happened there. After viewing the site of "Johnny Goesh" I am sick. I don't know if my brother would even remember the place or any details now... but OMG I feel so bad about our children and what happens to them. It sounds like this is so "high UP" I don't know how we can ever eradicate it from our world. It is everywhere. I heard a story about a guy that just came back from Thailand and he bragged he had sex with children there, this was just last week. He said anything goes there.

 

[Columbo]

That website is shocking. I had no idea things like that went on in Omaha. I've kept up on the registered sex offenders and all that stuff, but it's terrifying to think there are many more underground that just haven't been caught. I suppose I've been naive. Maybe that IS what is going on in the H. case. The video on that website about Btwn was incredibly scary.

It really is shocking--who could imagine? Omaha is supposed to be Middle America--solid folks, mom and apple pie--not this kind of crap. So ugly and depraved.

 

[Snick1946]

Hi Columbo:
That was very interesting information you posted. This might even give us a clue as to why Omaha LE did not want AMW filming an episode about these murders. Maybe they were afraid they would be exposing this seamy side of Omaha.

Those 3 videos of downtown Omaha posted are amazing. All of this pedophilia and prostitution going on right beneath the noses of the police speaks volumes.

As far as Noreen Gosch, I'm wondering why she was unable to give police sufficient information about the person who supposedly brought her son to visit her such as type of vehicle, license plate number, etc. and why no one saw the person leaving the envelope with the photos on her front step. Just a couple of things that "stuck out" to me as strange.

I wonder if the YMCA wher the Hunter boy played basketball was in the downtown area?

Thanks for posting that information.

YellowDog- Bingo.

The central YMCA in Omaha is right downtown close to the areas I'd guess are apparently in the video- I say apparently as I have not yet looked at it but will tommorrow when my kid is not at home. I used to go down there for workouts when I was single and lived closer to downtown- I can tell you there were some strange people hanging down there. I saw a couple of things in the locker room that made me decide to stop going there- this would have been in the early 90's.
I wonder how aware of this stuff Tom's father was- if he accompanied him in the locker room, all that. Food for thought.

 

[SuziQ]

FWIW, I would take the Johnny Gosch website with a grain of salt. I won't go into a long explanation, but alot of what's there has been debunked. I followed that case for years.

 

[Skully]

FWIW, I would take the Johnny Gosch website with a grain of salt. I won't go into a long explanation, but alot of what's there has been debunked. I followed that case for years.

Can you point me to a direction or link so I can read what you do to make you think the information on her site is not correct or needs debunking? Why would Noreen post a website of her child like this? I do remember an interview on Oprah a year or so ago and I think it was Noreen and she explained some things about why he couldn't come home, and what happened to him and other boys. Thanks, I am really curious.

 

[SuziQ]

Bern, IMO, Noreen is desperate to believe that Johhny is alive and the alternative is just too painful to accept. She has been the victim of incredibly cruel people. There is much out there on the net and on WS about this. In recent years, Noreen has taken to lifting photos and info from other missing kid cases and incorporating it into her son's case. I hate for any other case, including this one, to get drawn into the Gosch drama as it could only be a distraction and diservice. JMO, IMO, etc.etc.

The below linked Wiki article is the Gosch case in a nutshell. What I snipped is the crux of the pedo ring claim. Note that a grand jury refused to hand down charges against the supposed leader, calling it a hoax. The two making the claims were charged and convicted of perjury. Then the person behind the claims won a one million dollar judgement by default only, because the defendant did not show up to fight it, because he was in jail for financial crimes at the time.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch[/ame]


In 1990, a grand jury declined to charge King, finding the allegations to be "a carefully crafted [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoax"]hoax[/ame]". Alleged victims Paul Bonacci and Alisha Owen were convicted of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury"]perjury[/ame] and jailed. Nonetheless, King was sued by Bonacci in 1999 and, because King did not respond to or defend himself against the charges, King was ordered to pay Bonacci $1 million in a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_judgment"]default judgment[/ame]. The judge's decision reads, "The now uncontradicted evidence is that the plaintiff has suffered much. He has suffered burns, broken fingers, beatings of the head and face and other indignities by the wrongful actions of defendant King".[12] At the time, King was serving a prison sentence for [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud"]fraud[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion"]tax evasion[/ame] involving the theft of $38 million.

 

[Columbo]

Bern, IMO, Noreen is desperate to believe that Johhny is alive and the alternative is just too painful to accept. She has been the victim of incredibly cruel people. There is much out there on the net and on WS about this. In recent years, Noreen has taken to lifting photos and info from other missing kid cases and incorporating it into her son's case. I hate for any other case, including this one, to get drawn into the Gosch drama as it could only be a distraction and diservice. JMO, IMO, etc.etc.

The below linked Wiki article is the Gosch case in a nutshell. What I snipped is the crux of the pedo ring claim. Note that a grand jury refused to hand down charges against the supposed leader, calling it a hoax. The two making the claims were charged and convicted of perjury. Then the person behind the claims won a one million dollar judgement by default only, because the defendant did not show up to fight it, because he was in jail for financial crimes at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch


In 1990, a grand jury declined to charge King, finding the allegations to be "a carefully crafted hoax". Alleged victims Paul Bonacci and Alisha Owen were convicted of perjury and jailed. Nonetheless, King was sued by Bonacci in 1999 and, because King did not respond to or defend himself against the charges, King was ordered to pay Bonacci $1 million in a default judgment. The judge's decision reads, "The now uncontradicted evidence is that the plaintiff has suffered much. He has suffered burns, broken fingers, beatings of the head and face and other indignities by the wrongful actions of defendant King".[12] At the time, King was serving a prison sentence for fraud and tax evasion involving the theft of $38 million.

Thanks, SuziQ. It sounds as if you know a lot more about the Omaha pedo ring and Johnny Gosch case than I do. I feel bad for getting off-track. Maybe I should delete my posts....

Among other things, it really seemed unbelievable that Johnny would visit his mother for a few hours and then leave! After all, he's an adult. That did not make sense.

 

[SuziQ]

Thanks, SuziQ. It sounds as if you know a lot more about the Omaha pedo ring and Johnny Gosch case than I do. I feel bad for getting off-track. Maybe I should delete my posts....

Among other things, it really seemed unbelievable that Johnny would visit his mother for a few hours and then leave! After all, he's an adult. That did not make sense.

It's all cool! It would have come up eventually given the location of this crime. :blowkiss: