One Killer or More?

[Armchair-reader]

I have a theory that some killers are networking with each other online and have been for a while. Look at Jeffrey Willis (killer of Jessica Heeringa). He had "kidnap and kill" videos on his computer, at least some of which police said were real. Where does one get such videos? I would imagine by trading with likeminded people.


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Good point Aleph. Without looking it up I think TOR made it's debut around 1997. As always I look forward to reading your posts.

 

[s@zuluck]

I have thought of that. To "litter" another seriel killers personal space with your own work, would be brilliant. I guess I didn't want to give him that much credit. Also I have been undecided on the one or more killers. I've come to the conclusion it has to be more than one. The second link explains why the dismemberment. I ask myself now though how did one know about the other. Could it be two men who are very close one maybe just a little sicker than the other but familiar to each other. Someone on the inside who knew police matters and knew where to dump or was it just dumb luck.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201307/sadistic-killers

http://ericahutton.blogspot.com/2011/03/psychological-associations-of.html?m=1

Maybe as the first media reports came in on remains found the Killers and yes im referring to the multiple killers theory now, that when the media released the first time (1996) they see a golden opportunity!? Just the landscape becomes more inviting and they know that that fact (remains were found there) would "contaminate" they're own crime scene to they're own advantage? If the first murder points to a suspect they, being the police would or could pin his own murder(s) on the (other) first killer...? Just cause of the convenience of the dump site too might attract allot of killers.. that fact alone..
Just adds more layers. And unfortunately its layers of humanity!!

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[Armchair-reader]

I have to elaborate on my more than one killer idea because I love others opinions.
I think the SK dismembering victims is omni-sexual. He will have sex with anything. He prefers men yeah in that sense he is gay. He hates, loathes, despises women. That is why men are left intact and women are mutilated or dismembered. I don't think there was rhyme or reason in the way he dismembered them, he just did it. That baby had to die somehow I don't think it was an accident. Probably suffocation as no trauma was found. The mutilation of the Remy's angel tattoo seems like it was done in a fit of jealous rage. Remember I said I think SK is omni-sexual but gay. (Will have sex with anything but prefers men and hates women).
I don't think this fits Bittrolff. JB had sex with escorts. A jury will decide if he killed either of the two or both he is standing trial for. IF he killed any of them he didn't mutilate or wrap them in burlap. (MO)
That leaves burlap killer responsible for GILGO beach and Shannon Gilbert. PCH and Brewer know something, that I am convinced of. I think they were not investigated enough. Burke covered their asses and did it for his own self preservation. I do think this ring of narcissistic a-holes have something to do with these killings. What Police Chief carries sex toys around with him in his car to and from work? What Dr. makes phone calls to a missing girls mom and lies about running a shelter then lies about making the calls then admits to making the calls.
"Oh my defibrillator went off" That reminded me of Fred Sanford "I'm coming Elizabeth" Some of you will know what I'm talking about. CPH needs to brush up on his acting skills for court. Thank you. My opinions only

 

[s@zuluck]

The scariest and sickest think about the dismemberment is if its done while their still alive!! This looks more like a torture-killer! He is a disgusting sadist when pushed. Or maybe he even tries to keep his victims alive as long as possible. . Tourniquets the arm then chops a hand off with an axe!? Then whatches them squirm !? Can you imagine going through that! Poor things..
Pre or post mortem dismemberment? See we don't know these details?
But he's a sick puppy i tell you!!
After capture he deserves medieval torture! Before being pulled apart by two championship racehorses! ! *advertiser censored*!
But methinks that someone knows something more than they're letting on too. Yea that doctor needs to work on his acting skills! He's no Hannibal lector or something.. i think he wanted to inject himself into the investigation to maybe get his 15min.. hes attracted to drama and loves it! You can see through him ! His pacemaker should have hit him twice!! But why would you have an irregular heartbeat to some questions that your not quilty of? I wonder what a polygraph needle would have done if he had a defribilation in a interview room after a couple hours of interrogation! His heart will go pop! !
Anyway .. let me stop ranting....

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[WesternArtist]

The mutilation of the Remy's angel tattoo seems like it was done in a fit of jealous rage.

I agree. I have thought that this is a more likely explanation for the way the tattoo was mutilated than to obscure her identity for some time. I can imagine the scenario. JT gets picked up. While the killer is driving her to a motel or his home or the kill site the topic comes up "Do you have any tattoos?" I remember that in 2003 this was kind of a common conversational ice breaker. She said "yes" and maybe showed it to him. He asked her "Whose Remy?" She smiled because she was in love with KW and she said "He's my special man" or something like that. The killer is street smart; he knew that was her pimp. Many John's hate pimps and also fear them. It makes sense -these Johns have to pay these women to sleep with them but the same women have sex with these pimps and give them a share of their money. That whole situation solidifies feelings of inferiority and emasculation within these John's, which can enrage them if they have complexes about this. IMO the tattoo mutilation was postmortem, not torture, but the killer enjoyed it as a means of redemption and regaining his masculinity by erasing and overpowering this pimp metaphorically.

 

[DaisyChains]

One killer or more? Depends on which victims we are talking about. Imo:
When I think of the LISK case, I don't get just one malevolent person having murdered all of the bodies found (from Fire Island 1997 to Gilgo 2010) but many malevolent forces at play. This means, at least for me and MY OPINION, that:

1: Fire Island Jane Doe - I believe she was likely not born in the USA. I believe she was murdered as the result of something organized like mafia/triad/gang activity. She took good care of her appearance to a degree b/c she still had nail polish on her toenails. I'm not so sure she was caucasian. I'm thinking more so latina or asian. She was dumped at sea and a storm caused different parts to end up different places. This shows the killer had some means to have a boat or had someone they knew who let them borrow the boat during the body disposal.

2: Peaches and Toddler - Peaches and her toddler were likely victims of a domestic murder. Someone that was a partner of the mother did this. They were not the father of the toddler. I see the murderer 5-10 years older than the mommy doe. I tend to think he is black. The toddler was smothered and thrown off the road b/c the killer worried she would be able to ID him as killing her mother.


IMO Peaches likely never knew who the father of her baby was. The child was likely the result of promiscuity (whether forced or voluntary) and raised by Peaches boyfriend for a year or more. He was not of high IQ, but was street smart enough to hustle. Feeling like the killer is from somewhere populated where he had to conceal the body to get into a car and drop parts off. Not a big enough car to not just have the nasty parts very close creeping him out. Somewhere in Long Island. Hempstead likely.

3: The Manorville victims - The dismembered females were murdered by the same killer. The males were competition or threat to the killer. This was about territories and intimidation. Probably gang related. It is likely a group of killers from the streets murdered these Manorville people throughout the years. It was their gang burial ground. They knew if the girls were IDd maybe it would lead back to the PIMP/BF. The men - well the pimp/bf could kill them and no one would be the wiser. Stranger murder.

4: The Gilgo 4 and Asian Doe: This is LISK as we know him. He lives near his dumping ground as he does not want to chance driving with the bodies for too long. He is mid-high IQ. Less Risk Taking, but still a compulsivity to taunt driven by his superiority fantasies. The Asian Doe opened him up to the idea of murdering prostitutes. He was disgusted by that encounter and subconsciously vowed to prove his masculinity to all. We wonder why he wouldn't see more RISK in contacting the victims family and friends as LISK, but remember that in his sick mind he has a pathological obsession with the idea that these people don't matter to him or the world. That no one will miss them. He has been married and divorced - yet another woman who "screwed him" in life that he wishes he could strangle. I often wonder what he must have done to the victims belongings. probably just threw them in the trash in Manhattan near the port authority. The burlaps were handy and would not have ripped when transporting the bodies unlike trash bags. The killer actually has some homosexual fantasies as well, for which he feels shame and anger. he would never admit these feelings.

5: Shannan : Shannan, IMO, was also murdered by the same man who murdered the Gilgo 4 and Asian doe. I believe it is highly likely that the killer of these 6 persons is Joseph Brewer. He fits the profile of the taunting caller who murdered the 4 girls in the summer months. He had the summer home. He is mildly successful and was raised with a good education (LISK is said to have pronounced his T's and S's well). He is white. He is somewhat of means. Can trick women into partnerships, but cannot maintain longterm relationships b/c eventually the women do catch on. LISK likely has a substance problem like drinking too much (not sure if this is the case with JB). This drinking and/or drug use might lead to his downfall. In fact he may have called Amanda when he was drunk - perhaps being drunk makes him lose inhibitions and slip up.

anyhow thats what i think! What about you?

 

[Armchair-reader]

One killer or more? Depends on which victims we are talking about. Imo:
When I think of the LISK case, I don't get just one malevolent person having murdered all of the bodies found (from Fire Island 1997 to Gilgo 2010) but many malevolent forces at play. This means, at least for me and MY OPINION, that:

1: Fire Island Jane Doe - I believe she was likely not born in the USA. I believe she was murdered as the result of something organized like mafia/triad/gang activity. She took good care of her appearance to a degree b/c she still had nail polish on her toenails. I'm not so sure she was caucasian. I'm thinking more so latina or asian. She was dumped at sea and a storm caused different parts to end up different places. This shows the killer had some means to have a boat or had someone they knew who let them borrow the boat during the body disposal.

2: Peaches and Toddler - Peaches and her toddler were likely victims of a domestic murder. Someone that was a partner of the mother did this. They were not the father of the toddler. I see the murderer 5-10 years older than the mommy doe. I tend to think he is black. The toddler was smothered and thrown off the road b/c the killer worried she would be able to ID him as killing her mother.


IMO Peaches likely never knew who the father of her baby was. The child was likely the result of promiscuity (whether forced or voluntary) and raised by Peaches boyfriend for a year or more. He was not of high IQ, but was street smart enough to hustle. Feeling like the killer is from somewhere populated where he had to conceal the body to get into a car and drop parts off. Not a big enough car to not just have the nasty parts very close creeping him out. Somewhere in Long Island. Hempstead likely.

3: The Manorville victims - The dismembered females were murdered by the same killer. The males were competition or threat to the killer. This was about territories and intimidation. Probably gang related. It is likely a group of killers from the streets murdered these Manorville people throughout the years. It was their gang burial ground. They knew if the girls were IDd maybe it would lead back to the PIMP/BF. The men - well the pimp/bf could kill them and no one would be the wiser. Stranger murder.

4: The Gilgo 4 and Asian Doe: This is LISK as we know him. He lives near his dumping ground as he does not want to chance driving with the bodies for too long. He is mid-high IQ. Less Risk Taking, but still a compulsivity to taunt driven by his superiority fantasies. The Asian Doe opened him up to the idea of murdering prostitutes. He was disgusted by that encounter and subconsciously vowed to prove his masculinity to all. We wonder why he wouldn't see more RISK in contacting the victims family and friends as LISK, but remember that in his sick mind he has a pathological obsession with the idea that these people don't matter to him or the world. That no one will miss them. He has been married and divorced - yet another woman who "screwed him" in life that he wishes he could strangle. I often wonder what he must have done to the victims belongings. probably just threw them in the trash in Manhattan near the port authority. The burlaps were handy and would not have ripped when transporting the bodies unlike trash bags. The killer actually has some homosexual fantasies as well, for which he feels shame and anger. he would never admit these feelings.

5: Shannan : Shannan, IMO, was also murdered by the same man who murdered the Gilgo 4 and Asian doe. I believe it is highly likely that the killer of these 6 persons is Joseph Brewer. He fits the profile of the taunting caller who murdered the 4 girls in the summer months. He had the summer home. He is mildly successful and was raised with a good education (LISK is said to have pronounced his T's and S's well). He is white. He is somewhat of means. Can trick women into partnerships, but cannot maintain longterm relationships b/c eventually the women do catch on. LISK likely has a substance problem like drinking too much (not sure if this is the case with JB). This drinking and/or drug use might lead to his downfall. In fact he may have called Amanda when he was drunk - perhaps being drunk makes him lose inhibitions and slip up.

anyhow thats what i think! What about you?

I think you are solid on 4 and 5. That is my theory as well. On 1,2 and 3 though my ideas are different. I think there is a sexual sadist at work. An extreme sadist who will have sex with anything but hates women and is highly attracted to men. That is why the women were dismembered and the men were not. Poor baby Doe just happened to have gotten in the way. I do like your theories though and they are great possibilities.
I don't think however JB acted alone. I think CPH has a role in this as well as JBur. This leaves me not knowing where to stand with JBitt. Was he part of this party scene and act as the disposal guy for the others because he had the work truck, equipment and animinity to be all over Long Island without anyone giving it a second thought and paid damn good money to do it? These are ideas that keep floating around. Yeah JBitts had sex with prostitutes but so did the rest yet he is the only one standing trial for murder. Something isn't sitting well with me here.

 

[Odyssey]

I really try to read all the posts before making a suggestion, but I can't read 50k posts right now.

Has anyone looked at a link to the disappearance of Kelly Morrissey and murders of Theresa Fusco and Jackie Martarella? I just found the timing interesting, three men were convicted of Theresa's murder and were exonerated in June 2003. If you exclude the 2000 "possible" from the timeline, it looks like the LISK murders started a month after they were released. Theresa's mother is quoted in MSM as saying she thinks those 3 men were guilty and that not all of the evidence was presented at the appeal.

I won't elaborate too much until someone can confirm that this hasn't already been discussed/ruled out. I don't want to be redundant. If it has been discussed, if someone could tell me which thread, I'd appreciate it. I did a google search and didn't find anything linking the two.

TIA.

 

[Di719]

My Aunt and Uncle had the end house on the bay side of Gilgo beach, I practically grew up there. We believe there were at least 2 killers, namely my cousins. Yes they have been reported, by several people.


How ever the minute SC police were told one had murdered his 2 toddlers, wife then committed suicide they didn't care to hear anything else.Guess they only want live suspects.Even people who hadn't seen them in over 20 years called with their names as they remembered them and immediately thought this was their doing.

Several of us also begged them to search the marsh right down the road on Gilgo. Both of them know those marshes like no one else. In later years they both got very upset when anyone visited and suggested going bottle hunting. The acted like they owned the marsh and even threatened family members not to go back there. Still the SC police even ignored that.

My family suffers great sorrrow for the victims and we would like to see the living cousin at least brought in for questioning, because if they did this, seperately or together, th, it needs to be known. The families desreve that.
We can no longer call the SC police, it's sad, fustrating and get's us worse than no where.

 

[DQN]

My Aunt and Uncle had the end house on the bay side of Gilgo beach, I practically grew up there. We believe there were at least 2 killers, namely my cousins. Yes they have been reported, by several people.


How ever the minute SC police were told one had murdered his 2 toddlers, wife then committed suicide they didn't care to hear anything else.Guess they only want live suspects.Even people who hadn't seen them in over 20 years called with their names as they remembered them and immediately thought this was their doing.

Several of us also begged them to search the marsh right down the road on Gilgo. Both of them know those marshes like no one else. In later years they both got very upset when anyone visited and suggested going bottle hunting. The acted like they owned the marsh and even threatened family members not to go back there. Still the SC police even ignored that.

My family suffers great sorrrow for the victims and we would like to see the living cousin at least brought in for questioning, because if they did this, seperately or together, th, it needs to be known. The families desreve that.
We can no longer call the SC police, it's sad, fustrating and get's us worse than no where.

Go to the FBI with your tip, SCPD is useless, in addition the Feds have bee involved in this a couple years now investigating.

Here is the NY FBI Office, they will direct you to their satellite office in Long Island.

Contact Us



26 Federal Plaza, 23rd Floor
New York, NY 10278-0004
(212) 384-1000


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[Di719]

Many of us have. The FBI seems to be tossing aside any tips that the SC all ready deemed useless.
This haunts me daily.

Go to the FBI with your tip, SCPD is useless, in addition the Feds have bee involved in this a couple years now investigating.

Here is the NY FBI Office, they will direct you to their satellite office in Long Island.

Contact Us



26 Federal Plaza, 23rd Floor
New York, NY 10278-0004
(212) 384-1000


[FONT=&amp]








[/FONT]

 

[deedee21]

My Aunt and Uncle had the end house on the bay side of Gilgo beach, I practically grew up there. We believe there were at least 2 killers, namely my cousins. Yes they have been reported, by several people.


How ever the minute SC police were told one had murdered his 2 toddlers, wife then committed suicide they didn't care to hear anything else.Guess they only want live suspects.Even people who hadn't seen them in over 20 years called with their names as they remembered them and immediately thought this was their doing.

Several of us also begged them to search the marsh right down the road on Gilgo. Both of them know those marshes like no one else. In later years they both got very upset when anyone visited and suggested going bottle hunting. The acted like they owned the marsh and even threatened family members not to go back there. Still the SC police even ignored that.

My family suffers great sorrrow for the victims and we would like to see the living cousin at least brought in for questioning, because if they did this, seperately or together, th, it needs to be known. The families desreve that.
We can no longer call the SC police, it's sad, fustrating and get's us worse than no where.

Im a little confused. Two toddlers were murdered? How did someone get away with killing two babies? What did the ME say was the cause of death?

 

[PictureSnatcher]

My Aunt and Uncle had the end house on the bay side of Gilgo beach, I practically grew up there. We believe there were at least 2 killers, namely my cousins. Yes they have been reported, by several people.


How ever the minute SC police were told one had murdered his 2 toddlers, wife then committed suicide they didn't care to hear anything else.Guess they only want live suspects.Even people who hadn't seen them in over 20 years called with their names as they remembered them and immediately thought this was their doing.

Several of us also begged them to search the marsh right down the road on Gilgo. Both of them know those marshes like no one else. In later years they both got very upset when anyone visited and suggested going bottle hunting. The acted like they owned the marsh and even threatened family members not to go back there. Still the SC police even ignored that.

My family suffers great sorrrow for the victims and we would like to see the living cousin at least brought in for questioning, because if they did this, seperately or together, th, it needs to be known. The families desreve that.
We can no longer call the SC police, it's sad, fustrating and get's us worse than no where.

Do you have a news link to the story about the two murdered toddlers?

 

[Thebigh73]

I have a question as I haven't seen this yet in the shows. Sorry I'm only on episode 3. But have followed these cases for years since they found The first bodies at Gilgo Beach (think they were the first right?). And something I thought of last night.
1) Is the LISK murders linked to the bodies in the west Mesa that were found in New Mexico? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.abq...later.html/amp
2) what days of the week do the LISK victims go missing? Wondering since maybe the LISK may not live there full time. Since the killing season starts in June - does she/he (let's face it probably a man) go out there like a lot of people on thursdays or fridays and leave Monday's to head back to the city.
Or is he a traveling salesperson and only summers in Long Island? I have never seen a calendar of when they think these woman did an out call and what day of the week they could have done that call. Which could narrow it down to being the same days he is in town.
3) asked about the Mesa Serial Killer - because I always had this weird feeling that LISK is a traveling sales person, maybe from the NYC area but doesn't live there full time. And if he isn't there full time maybe bodies in a different state. And if he does travel (maybe a trucker but I don't think so) he could live in a warmer climate that could lead to the mesa killings being done maybe at a different part of the year. Where as maybe he is only on Long Island for the summer.

Just something I was thinking about last night. Would be interesting to see if the girls go missing on the same days of the week which might show you he does live / work in the NYC area and goes to summer on long island in the summer like a lot of Manhattanites.
Just curious. And if his has been answered- where is the calendar to see when /what days these girls went missing. Thx y'all.

 

[Thebigh73]

I wish there was more audio recorded evidence. I have this uncanny talent/Knack at listening to a voice and matching it with a person. Don't know why but if I could have a job listening to Audio recording and matching to a person (if there is a such a thing) I would donit all day long. It's this weird thing I have had since I was a kid. Anyways. Thx again do any help on the questions above. So glad I found this site. Thanks to the show- Killkng Season. Amazing btw! Well done.

 

[deedee21]

Most of the GB4 went missing on Thursdays and Sundays. Calls to Amanda occured on those same days. Its not believed West Mesa and LISK are connected.

 

[deedee21]

I find it hard to believe two murdered babies went unnoticed by LE. So would the FEDS. That would be why they are not taking calls about cousins in OB seriously.

 

[Di719]

Im a little confused. Two toddlers were murdered? How did someone get away with killing two babies? What did the ME say was the cause of death?

My cousin murdered his own children,wife then suicide.It's why they don't want to add him as as suspect, he's dead now. They still won't investigate his brother either.

 

[joesmith97]

I have a question as I haven't seen this yet in the shows. Sorry I'm only on episode 3. But have followed these cases for years since they found The first bodies at Gilgo Beach (think they were the first right?). And something I thought of last night.
1) Is the LISK murders linked to the bodies in the west Mesa that were found in New Mexico? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.abq...later.html/amp
2) what days of the week do the LISK victims go missing? Wondering since maybe the LISK may not live there full time. Since the killing season starts in June - does she/he (let's face it probably a man) go out there like a lot of people on thursdays or fridays and leave Monday's to head back to the city.
Or is he a traveling salesperson and only summers in Long Island? I have never seen a calendar of when they think these woman did an out call and what day of the week they could have done that call. Which could narrow it down to being the same days he is in town.
3) asked about the Mesa Serial Killer - because I always had this weird feeling that LISK is a traveling sales person, maybe from the NYC area but doesn't live there full time. And if he isn't there full time maybe bodies in a different state. And if he does travel (maybe a trucker but I don't think so) he could live in a warmer climate that could lead to the mesa killings being done maybe at a different part of the year. Where as maybe he is only on Long Island for the summer.

Just something I was thinking about last night. Would be interesting to see if the girls go missing on the same days of the week which might show you he does live / work in the NYC area and goes to summer on long island in the summer like a lot of Manhattanites.
Just curious. And if his has been answered- where is the calendar to see when /what days these girls went missing. Thx y'all.

Josh and Rachel address the West Mesa killer laster on in the series.

 

[Vapor]

My cousin murdered his own children,wife then suicide.It's why they don't want to add him as as suspect, he's dead now. They still won't investigate his brother either.

Sorry you had to experience such a tragic event so close to home.. Was anything made public about this triple murder suicide in the news? What year did it occur?