OR - Alaska Airlines flight diverted after off-duty pilot tries "to shut the engines down" in cockpit, audio reveals

[Cedars]

We should blame the system for promoting a culture of silence.

"Giovanetti acknowledged a lack of trust between the FAA and pilots, who don't believe the agency's assurances that they can fly again after a mental health diagnosis.
The vast majority of pilots do ultimately get their certification back, Giovanetti said. But she acknowledged that the process can often take months or years, calling those excessive delays "the elephant in the room" that can discourage pilots from seeking treatment."

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/06/1217591486/pilots-mental-health-treatment-lose-license-ntsb-faa

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/12/15/pilots-mental-health-faa-certification/

I meant secrecy in terms of not sharing with a reliable, trusted person, the trauma he says he felt during and after taking mushrooms and then not sleeping for 40 hours.

While keeping secrets about your bad trip is normal for kids and addicts, IMO responsible adults, in positions of high responsibility, need to reach out.

For example, any employee assistance program has a crisis line, and I'm sure there are similar anonymous crisis lines for pilots.

JMO

 

[red carpet fiber]

This was an Alaska Airline flight and Emerson is one of their pilots. This is not unusual practice for their own and not something extended to any "pilot."

He wasn't assigned to that flight. When I said "any pilot" I was emphasizing that it doesn't matter that he worked for the airline. That was my point. He wasn't assigned to that flight and had no reason to be in the cockpit except to.. hang out? It shouldn't have been allowed, IMO. And hopefully it never will be again.

 

[iamshadow21]

Skimmed the thread but I'm still not understanding why he was allowed in the cockpit in the first place. Who cares if he was a pilot? He wasn't one of THE pilots for that flight. Why was he in there? No one but the assigned pilots/attendants should be in the cockpit, period. It's surprising that something like that would be allowed in 202X.

The press tour is, IMO, an attempt to make people feel sorry for him in hopes that the feds will go easy on him. I'm not buying it and I hope the feds aren't either. He's facing over 80 federal charges and I hope they hit him hard. I don't buy the magic mushrooms excuse at all (jmo).

This was like attempting a suicide bombing, or attempting to shoot up a school. He tried to kill dozens of completely helpless people. I don't buy his characterization that it was just a 30-second lapse in judgement/lucidity. This is a dangerous individual.

He would have been in the cockpit jumpseat, deadheading to get to his next job.

Jump seat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Deadheading (employee) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

EDIT: Of interest in the article on deadheading under 'notable'. Of the five notable incidents listed, two deadheaders attempted to hijack (including this incident), three saved lives (two pilots, one cabin crew) in life threatening situations.

MOO

 

[red carpet fiber]

He would have been in the cockpit jumpseat, deadheading to get to his next job.

That explains his presence in the cockpit, thank you very much for sharing that info.
(I still feel that it shouldn't be allowed )

 

[iamshadow21]

That explains his presence in the cockpit, thank you very much for sharing that.
(I still feel that it shouldn't be allowed )

I admit I only know about deadheading because of the semibiographical film about the life and crimes of Frank Abagnale Jr. - Catch Me If You Can. There's a scene in it where he's impersonating a pilot, and he doesn't know what the word means. If you watch it, watch it as a piece of entertaining cinema. Abagnale couldn't tell the truth to save his life, and a lot of his autobiography, which the film was loosely based on, has been debunked as exaggeration if not outright fiction. Once a con...

MOO

 

[Snoopster]

I am conflicted in how I feel about this case and this person. I absolutely believe that someone could have a break with reality if they had a mental health crisis.

But it seems that Joseph is leaning into the theory that it was lingering effects of mushrooms and he was an alcoholic. It seems that he was self-medicating and suffering lack of sleep. Lack of sleep and hallucinating can be tied to mania. Did the drugs/alcohol cause this?

He really isn't apologizing in his statement and he's not pleading mental health issues, but rather substance abuse. It's really his fault for not seeking help if he was suffering from depression. Is he avoiding saying he has mental health issues since it would be more difficult to get his pilot's license back? Would an alcoholic have a better chance of getting his license back than someone who has depression of who might be bipolar?

I found him to be diminishing his responsibility in his statement.

I say this as someone who has someone close to them who has had major mental health issues and suffered a major mental health breakdown. My loved one received treatment (too high a level of anti-depressants) for major depression and that caused them to become manic. During the mania phase this person did all sorts of inappropriate things that they do not really recall now that their mental health is stable. They are not a reliable 'witness' to their own behavior and what they were thinking at the time.

 

[Seattle1]

He wasn't assigned to that flight. When I said "any pilot" I was emphasizing that it doesn't matter that he worked for the airline. That was my point. He wasn't assigned to that flight and had no reason to be in the cockpit except to.. hang out? It shouldn't have been allowed, IMO. And hopefully it never will be again.

As I said -- it's been normal practice for decades -- my father and his father allowed jump seat privileges as employees of the carrier and final approval by the Captain. Emerson was the exception. Maybe OP should take it up with the FAA.

Ref. FAR 121.547:

Jump seating Safety, and Security While exercising the privileges of FAR 121.547 as a jump seater, whether you are seated in the flight deck or in the cabin, you are considered an Additional Crew Member (ACM) and should conduct yourself accordingly. Keep your eyes and ears open if you are sitting on the flight deck; an ACM can be a valuable safety asset. Wear a headset and observe sterile cockpit rules, but speak up when necessary. Jump seaters may also serve as a security asset by helping with flight deck door openings and, in an extreme case, protecting the flight crew from an attack on the flight deck. Don’t Jump seat Guide forget to turn off your cell phone as soon as you enter the cockpit, and cease text messaging. Remember, 10,000 feet and below is a sterile cockpit environment (airline definitions of sterile cockpit may vary and be more restrictive), and reading, talking, and other non-pertinent activities are prohibited when jump seating. Your best behavior ensures maintaining jump seat agreements in the future.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[red carpet fiber]

No reason for them to be in the cockpit is all I'm saying.

Give them a free seat, sure! Just not in the cockpit

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I am conflicted in how I feel about this case and this person. I absolutely believe that someone could have a break with reality if they had a mental health crisis.

But it seems that Joseph is leaning into the theory that it was lingering effects of mushrooms and he was an alcoholic. It seems that he was self-medicating and suffering lack of sleep. Lack of sleep and hallucinating can be tied to mania. Did the drugs/alcohol cause this?

He really isn't apologizing in his statement and he's not pleading mental health issues, but rather substance abuse. It's really his fault for not seeking help if he was suffering from depression. Is he avoiding saying he has mental health issues since it would be more difficult to get his pilot's license back? Would an alcoholic have a better chance of getting his license back than someone who has depression of who might be bipolar?

I found him to be diminishing his responsibility in his statement.

I say this as someone who has someone close to them who has had major mental health issues and suffered a major mental health breakdown. My loved one received treatment (too high a level of anti-depressants) for major depression and that caused them to become manic. During the mania phase this person did all sorts of inappropriate things that they do not really recall now that their mental health is stable. They are not a reliable 'witness' to their own behavior and what they were thinking at the time.

Lack of sleep and hallucinations are symptoms of about 3 dozen different things, including fever, meningitis, cancer, and a score of other issues. Anyone with just lack of sleep and hallucinations would not be diagnosed with mania as that isn't what it is.

Mania is an altered mental state in which the person is euphoric and has a lot of energy. That's what causes the lack of sleep. It's lack of sleep due to increased energy, not just lack of sleep. And that lack of sleep due to increased energy h as to be present along with a number of other symptoms all at once to be considered mania. The hallucinations some experience in mania are not a symptom of mania or bipolar disorder. They are a symptom of a psychotic process that can be present on its own or in the context of another mental illness, such as bipolar disorder or mania, but is actually not a symptom of the mania itself.

Based on what we know in this case, there is no suggestion or evidence of mania or bipolar disorder.