OR - Emilio Hoffman, 14, killed in Troutdale high school shooting, 10 June 2014

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Dogface said:
But once again, we digress IMO. The problem is not access to weapons, it's people and kids wanting to harm people. THAT is not normal. THAT has to be fixed.
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If access isn't a problem then why don't we let kids buy AK 47's? Come on, really!? It is one part of the problem... even if it's an accidental shooting of one kid shooting another. Why do we have to disavow one part of a problem in a straw man argument to promote another.
 
You know Spice, I really do appreciate that.

I have realized I am stronger and more resilient than I ever knew, however, I think my resilience allowed my situation to go from bad to worse because I was so resilient and self assured after he first put his hands on me and thought it was a minor situation and that I handled it, so I simply brushed it under the rug. I didn't realize at the time I had just added a whole lot of fuel to the fire and a storm was building.

After dealing with it for 8 years I felt confident I had overcome most of it, like I had conquered my emotions with it. When my daughter was born, I realized how much fear I still have. Unfortunately, I will never let my guard down because there is more at stake than just "myself" now. And I don't admire certain aspects that brings out in me, however I feel it's my duty as a mother to always be prepared to protect my child, and myself, for my child.

This is something I'm not sure of, and would love to hear other thoughts on, but why are males typically the aggressor in every culture? I mean I understand sheer size and strength, but, is there anywhere that the "lion laying with the lamb" is more admired and heralded than the physical power men have? Perhaps the image of men in our cultures is damaging our boys the way images of super models is damaging girls?
 
time said:
If access isn't a problem then why don't we let kids buy AK 47's? Come on, really!? It is one part of the problem... even if it's an accidentally shooting of one kid shooting another. Why do we have to disavow one part of a problem in a straw man argument to promote another.
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I agree a 1000%, a kid should never have access to a gun on their own. But the availability of guns, if taken away, would just lead to different methods of attack IMO. I think people who carry out these crimes don't do it simply because they had access to the gun. That was just convenience. They would probably have found a way to inflict harm no matter what, with whatever weapon they chose.

But I completely agree, no matter how trained they are to use them, no matter how mature they are, no kid should have access to guns, or be able to simply bypass the security measures the parents have taken to keep them away from them. This is literally why I will never have a gun safe that doesn't work off my finger prints. I think it's a tragedy when people do not keep their guns away from kids. And I agree with other posts that the capacity of the damage that can be done with some guns is scary. But what is scarier to me is an unwell person who seeks to hurt others.
 
Okay Guys - I'm going to open this back up. Please remember:

1. We don't name minors, not even in quotes from news sources. We change their names to initials.

2. This is NOT the Political Pavilion. NO gun control, NO racism discussion here. If you must discuss such matters - take to to the PP and see if there is a thread.

3. Family members of the perp and/or the victim are NOT open for sleuthing. Leave them be - they have been through enough.

4. Don't forget your links. If you don't link and I (or another mod) can't verify your info, the post will be removed.

5. Don't be snarky to those with a different opinion.

Salem
 
Dogface said:
Thank you for your kind words. It was a horrific experience, I went through a lot of emotions on my way to physically and emotionally healing. I am not even done healing, I may never be. Fortunately, bitterness and anger were fleeting. Regardless of our sides on gun control, I think we all agree violence in our society has no place. I just truly wish there was an "easy" button we could press to make people compassionate, caring, to heal their hurt, to make them know they are not alone. I think we have gone off track today, because we discussed guns so much, and I have shared a lot of personal stuff on it. At the heart of the issue we just simply have to find a way to stop whatever paths of thoughts these people are having that lead them to rampaging. This case shocks me because he truly seemed to have a sense of belonging and purpose.
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You are 100% correct. Teaching problem solving in schools would be a huge start. Teaching it as a required skill in high school where kids pretend to be parents of the future would be another way.

Teaching that anger is OK but what to do with it is something that must be done.

There are kids that are so hyper vigilant because of violence they have experienced that they look at everything as a threat and a put down

I so admire your spirit. People can become bitter from their experiences. Rather you have seized the experience and are raising yourself to heights unknown.

You are remarkable in your strength.
 
Dogface said:
I agree a 1000%, a kid should never have access to a gun on their own. But the availability of guns, if taken away, would just lead to different methods of attack IMO. I think people who carry out these crimes don't do it simply because they had access to the gun. That was just convenience. They would probably have found a way to inflict harm no matter what, with whatever weapon they chose.

But I completely agree, no matter how trained they are to use them, no matter how mature they are, no kid should have access to guns, or be able to simply bypass the security measures the parents have taken to keep them away from them. This is literally why I will never have a gun safe that doesn't work off my finger prints. I think it's a tragedy when people do not keep their guns away from kids. And I agree with other posts that the capacity of the damage that can be done with some guns is scary. But what is scarier to me is an unwell person who seeks to hurt others.
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BBM - I disagree with you on this. Of course, they may still commit violent acts, but saying access to guns is of no consequence relative to other means doesn't make sense to me. Most of the alternatives cannot kill dozens of people within a few seconds or minutes although you seem to contradict yourself later on concerning this capacity.

I hear what you are saying, in part I agree, but again, I am not sure why you are arguing about what is scarier? It's obviously not a contest between the two so it doesn't seem logical. What is scarier than putting the two to together. Anyway....access matters.
 
CARIIS said:
Is you daughters WHOLE school locked after the day starts? I just had no idea . -
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Cariis, I had to check it out to be sure. DD told me "no", but today was a 1/2 day at her middle school- tommorrow is the last day of school, so I volunteered for the whole day, and the front gates were locked once school started until it let out.
 
Dogface said:
Part of the reason I own an assault rifle, is after being attacked right after I graduated high school by a boy I dated my freshman year. He still stalks me, and I'm 28. Better believe if I ever saw him standing in my house again I wouldn't hesitate to shoot him where he stood. I'm lucky I don't have scars from the beating he gave me. At 5'1" and 115lbs to his 6'3" 230lbs, everything I learned about hand to hand fighting was basically pointless. And I would want more than the 2-3 chances I have with a shotgun. Especially because of whom he may have with him. Plus, I like to use my shotguns for clay shooting and would hate to have a bad association with any of them since I have spent $300 a gun getting them fitted to me. I live in a very nice neighborhood, and home invasions have happened. Chances are I would use one of my handguns simply bc we have them in safes in various places in the house that I could quickly get to, which literally take seconds to open with a fingerprint, but if I had the chance, my bushmaster would be what I would want to have in my hands.

I would rather have something and never need to use it, than need it and not have it. Much like a spare tire.

However, what can we do as parents, adults, caregivers to prevent these things from happening? It's not about the gun. The boy in PA showed what damage could be done with a knife. The problem isn't the weapons, it's the people. We need to take a deep look at the root of the problem. The ability to hurt people on a massive scale is there for all. What do we do to stop people from seeing that as an option in the first place?
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Sounds like your ex-boyfriend did not grow up and is really obsessed. He still thinks his life is still high school. That kind of person is creepy, like Robert John Bardo or Richard Farley. :eek: :crazy:
 
human said:
Yes, it is a bummer.

How about helping the family of the victim?

Focusing on the shooter. No. Sorry!
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The families in all of these events get "blamed". They are victimized as well. It is not like any of these families wanted a member of their family to go down in history as a mass murderer.
 
I think there is more coming. I posted quote from presser earlier cant find it . But he said it is not apprpriate to comment on motive AT THIS TIME.

I think there may be some family stuff still to come jut imo
 
HMSHood said:
I wonder what drove Jared Padgett to kill Emilio Hoffman. From what I have read, he does not like it when people disagree with him. Also, his parents divorced in 2010. I would not be surprised if the divorce had an impact on Padgett.

Oregon school shooting: Gunman Jared Michael Padgett known as serious student with interest in military
http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2014/06/oregon_school_shooting_gunman.html
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he does not like it when people disagree with him.

I would say most dont! If we add up all we know about him at this point overall he was liked, did well in school, had interests etc. As a teenager he had a couple of instances of being pissed- at least at this point that is the image I get
 
LinasK said:
Cariis, I had to check it out to be sure. DD told me "no", but today was a 1/2 day at her middle school- tommorrow is the last day of school, so I volunteered for the whole day, and the front gates were locked once school started until it let out.
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Ty, gosh , i just thought when I went to school there was no way to lock a school other than the main door!! NO fences , nothing!

And trust me I think congress knee jerk is going to turn schools into airports for billions, while ignoring mental illiness, and then the shootings will move to outside of school and then that will go on a while and then god knows what
 
time said:
BBM - I disagree with you on this. Of course, they may still commit violent acts, but saying access to guns is of no consequence relative to other means doesn't make sense to me. Most of the alternatives cannot kill dozens of people within a few seconds or minutes although you seem to contradict yourself later on concerning this capacity.

I hear what you are saying, in part I agree, but again, I am not sure why you are arguing about what is scarier? It's obviously not a contest between the two so it doesn't seem logical. What is scarier than putting the two to together. Anyway....access matters.
Click to expand...
But the availability of guns, if taken away, would just lead to different methods of attack

For some reason we seem to forget some realties abouts guns.:
broadly agree on the 300 million figure.”

313.9 million (2012)
United States of America, Population

Were having trouble keeping track of nuclear warheads, the notions (just numbers) that we can "control" this is not realistic.

Addressing the REASONS why fellow human beings want, or cant control themselves from killing others is a tough, but far healthier goal society wise.

In the meantime lots of people who do not desire to kill but are suffering nonetheless get help- its like a buy one get one !

But as we in US do with many of our ills, we bandaid, and then in a different wound shape it comes back in one or another.

We have not been able to keep Rx drugs kids reach, we have not been able to keep alcohol and car keys away from youth , the notion that we are going to "sucessfully" do so in this arena, IMO, is misfocused energy and money.

Try to work on causation not the aftershock of ignoring that first
 
CARIIS said:
But the availability of guns, if taken away, would just lead to different methods of attack

For some reason we seem to forget some realties abouts guns.:
broadly agree on the 300 million figure.”

313.9 million (2012)
United States of America, Population

Were having trouble keeping track of nuclear warheads, the notions (just numbers) that we can "control" this is not realistic.

Addressing the REASONS why fellow human beings want, or cant control themselves from killing others is a tough, but far healthier goal society wise.

In the meantime lots of people who do not desire to kill but are suffering nonetheless get help- its like a buy one get one !

But as we in US do with many of our ills, we bandaid, and then in a different wound shape it comes back in one or another.

We have not been able to keep Rx drugs kids reach, we have not been able to keep alcohol and car keys away from youth , the notion that we are going to "sucessfully" do so in this arena, IMO, is misfocused energy and money.

Try to work on causation not the aftershock of ignoring that first
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I think you are starting with a false premise and I see NO reason not to limit access to guns in the home. It is not misfocused. Kids and others should not have easy access to other people's dangerous prescription drugs either, esp out of someone's medicine cabinet... these are the easiest forms of limiting access and assigning personal accountability for safety.

I agree that preventing the desire to harm others is also of utmost importance. More important really, and more difficult because it involves embedded cultural problems and more complex considerations overall, but that doesn't mean we can't limit access and charge those who own the guns with failing to be responsible.
 
Police were dispatched at 8:07 a.m. The school's two resource officers were among the first to respond.

"When units arrived on scene,” said Sgt. Carey Kaer, spokesman for the Troutdale Police Department, “they got a team together and they entered."

Police followed Padgett as he ran into a men's room in the lobby of the gym building.

http://www.katu.com/news/investigat...-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time-262966961.html

I am wondering who his target was? Surely he had a target. I wonder how much time passed from the time (8:07) LE was dispatched and the time they got there to engage him in gun fire. I mean what was he doing after Todd Rispler was grazed and ran out before LE arrived? idk jmo
 
Elley Mae said:
Police were dispatched at 8:07 a.m. The school's two resource officers were among the first to respond.

"When units arrived on scene,” said Sgt. Carey Kaer, spokesman for the Troutdale Police Department, “they got a team together and they entered."

Police followed Padgett as he ran into a men's room in the lobby of the gym building.

http://www.katu.com/news/investigat...-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time-262966961.html

I am wondering who his target was? Surely he had a target. I wonder how much time passed from the time (8:07) LE was dispatched and the time they got there to engage him in gun fire. I mean what was he doing after Todd Rispler was grazed and ran out before LE arrived? idk jmo
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Good questions, I wonder who the target was also, a specific person(s) or mass mayhem.

He made his way into the boys' locker room where he suited up for the attack....Officers say 14-year-old Emilio Hoffman walked into the locker room and Padgett fatally shot him....Police followed Padgett as he ran into a men's room in the lobby of the gym building.
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Seems obvious it was not Emilio. I tend to think after he grazed Rispler, he knew the jig was up so he went to hide in the bathroom instead of going directly to complete his plan?
 
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