OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #1

[La Louve]

The shooter was ID'd, but the ID was wrong. So as you said the shooter was "neutralized" but the person who had been identified (incorrectly) as the shooter was still out there.

Are you saying the wrong name was provided at first? Or were there two people with the same name? In either case, the shooter was dead, so why would anyone be looking for him?

Sorry bluesneakers. You and I are usually on the same wavelength. It's been a long horrible day here in the Portland area, and I'm just now sitting down to a glass of wine and a very overdue dinner. Maybe after I eat I'll understand what you're saying.

:seeya:

 

[Fairy1]

Yeah but some things can't be fixed by mental health care. I think about half these murderers either were not diagnosed with anything, or didn't present with any "serious" symptoms and I think that many/most of these cowards did not show signs that showed they were a danger to themselves or others. Except maybe on the internet to strangers.

Therapists and doctors see vast numbers of people with neurological or mental health issues who are lower functioning than most of these creeps. And I would venture to guess that 99.9% of people with neurological or mental health issues similar to what some of these guys may have are not dangerous at all.

So what kind of care are we talking about? What treatment? How do you force an adult to go to therapy? When there, how do you force them to divulge what they are really thinking? The guy who shot up the people in Santa Barbara spoke to a psychologist and a team of cops who came out to assess him and showed no signs to them of something like what he did next.


He stalked and tried to kill Byork. He saw a therapist regularly for "depression". Tell me how a mental health professional is supposed to act as mind reader? How is it all supposed to work?

Don't get me wrong. I agree that our health care system and how we treat the mentally ill in this country is abysmal. I just don''t think the radical changes we need would help the kind of creeps who do stuff like this. Not most of them, who are able to act like they're functioning and h8ide what's really going on in their minds.

I have a good friend whose sister was diagnosed with schizophrenia at the age of 15. She's 58 now. At the time she was diagnosed, the family lived in a state with outstanding mental health care. She became a ward of the state and was institutionalized for many years. She is now on her meds and living independently, but still schizophrenic and definitely not able to live in mainstream society. And she is still a ward of the state with a social worker checking on her regularly.

My friend's family was lucky because most families are not capable of caring for a mentally ill family member. The resources that were available to them 43 years ago no longer exist.

 

[kalekona]

Seriously? You really don't see how knowledge learned from past shooters has prevented more loss of life? We hear all the time about possible shootings being prevented because someone saw the signs, signs we learned from past shooters.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana,

I agree with your assertion about our media. I was just recently, in light of the recent anniversary of Princess Diana's death, discussing the same with my husband.

Princess Di's death was one of those, "remember what you were doing, when.. ", moments for me. I remember it, clear as day (well, it was evening where I was) and I remember my thoughts about the incident.

I remember thinking how bad, and hard up, the media must be in the UK. I was always reading about the royal family being harassed my paparazzi, as well as huge sports figures. The same paparazzi behavior happened to American actors/actresses that would visit or tour the UK.

Their mags were full of "inside" stories and dirty rumors about celebrities. We had the enquire, but that seemed to be more focused on UFO'S, women giving birth to warewolves, and government conspiracies.

I'm sorry, if this post seems to be off-topic, but I don't believe it is. In the past few decades, our media has evolved away from free-press storied and real journalism and into sensationalism and Enquir'esque fiction. So, yes. The media is a huge part of the problem.

With that said, I'm not really sure how to fix that part of the issue. There may be little we can do about the media issue, just as there isn't much we can do about the gun issue. Neither issue can be properly dealt with, without revising our Constitution. And that is something I am NOT willing to consider.

And, so we're back to the beginning. Back to where we can make a difference and that is at home.

I think we can make a difference by shaming the media. Like the sheriff just did. Voicing our opinions and disgust when they glorify a murderer.

Gitana, normally I agree with you 100% on everything. But, for me, I need to know about the murderer. I need to know how he got to the point where he would murder innocent people who were just minding their own business today. I don't want him to be glorified or revered. But I need to understand how he got to where he was today. How he got his weapons and why so many other losers were supporting him and giving him tips on how to do what he set out to do just 24 hours ago.

I need to know why. If there even is a why.

Yes but why does the public's curiosity outweigh the safety and right to life of the next victims of someone who craves notoriety? Because unless you are a mental health professional whose profession is the investigation and research into these people with the goal of developing prevention strategies, your knowledge about the name of the murderer is not helpful.

Knowledge is power. Don't you believe we need to understand why we have so many malcontents in our midst? Don't you want to know if your neighbor or coworker is capable of this? IMO, we have raised a generation of people who truly believe they're entitled and take no responsibility for their own actions (or inactions).

My own children are in this age group.

Unless you are a mental health researcher or professional, your knowledge of the name and ability to view the facebook page of this creep only bestows power on the him and the next mass murderer.

There are professionals who compile all the vital information about these people and who can easily disseminate it to the public in an anonymous manner that enables us to educate ourselves while denying future murderers the incentive to do something similar.

I'm sorry but my rank curiosity, morbidity and "right to know" should never take precedence over the safety and the lives of others.

It is a fact that these guys do this for notoriety - for attention and fame. It is a fact that many of them have been totally inspired by and obsessed with prior mass killings. It is not a fact at all that our ability to know their names and access their personal information does one damn thing to make anyone safe.

 

[bluesneakers]

Are you saying the wrong name was provided at first? Or were there two people with the same name? In either case, the shooter was dead, so why would anyone be looking for him?

Sorry bluesneakers. You and I are usually on the same wavelength. It's been a long horrible day here in the Portland area, and I'm just now sitting down to a glass of wine and a very overdue dinner. Maybe after I eat I'll understand what you're saying.

:seeya:

Sorry, I assumed you knew whether the name of the shooter had been correct. I wasn't paying attention at the time and only know an incorrect ID had been made earlier. But whose ID was it, and was that person alive or dead? I don't know.

I hope you feel better.

 

[BlueberryBird]

I don't agree at all and really, such comparisons make me angry; smacks of tragedy upmanship. Tech is large, yes, but B'burg is still a small college town and Tech can feel like a very small school. It is a close knit community. Nobody really was unscathed. I will never, ever forget the long lines of ambulances outside our lab Windows or the swat type teams combing campus and draining ponds for weeks after or the broken windows of Norris. The first responders all suffered, and still suffer, terribly. I have several faculty friends still being treated for related PTSD.

An event like this is going to leave deep community scars wherever it happens.

 

[La Louve]

I guess we read the Onion article that bluesneakers posted. We simply accept this as the American way of life. We simply have no answers even though other nations do not have this issue. What could the problem be? Hm

In all the threads I've followed here, we always try to understand why a person commits a violent crime. I think it's a logical attempt to make sense of the insensible, to make order out of the disorderly. But as most of us know, there is no making sense out of these things.

 

[Sasquatch]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/01/umpqua-gunman-id-d-as-chris-harper-mercer.html

Harper-Mercer and his mother previously lived in Torrance {CA} before moving to an apartment in Winchester, Oregon, where neighbors tell The Daily Beast there is a heavy police presence.

His Myspace account mentions Torrance, CA as his location. The internet white pages gives the Winchester address. As La Louve pointed out, that the media has already been to the Winchester, Oregon apartment with the yellow tape around it. As far as poor E-man, that is terrible that he was pointed out as the shooter. 4Chan is known for its internet trolls. E-man posted a video yesterday, that he was up in the northern states for a few days. CH-M's Myspace post, shows him posing with his rifle, which is typical behavior in these cases. The rifle looks like a .303 Jungle Rifle with its shorter barrel. It is difficult to tell, because half of the rifle is cut out of the photo. You can read his comments on the photos, supporting the cause of the IRA.

https://myspace.com/344765151/photos

 

[gitana1]

Seriously? You really don't see how knowledge learned from past shooters has prevented more loss of life? We hear all the time about possible shootings being prevented because someone saw the signs, signs we learned from past shooters.

I'm not sure who you're quoting but I can speak for myself: There is absolutely not one single reason that we cannot obtain knowledge about mass murderers and learn the signs, WITHOUT plastering their names and faces all over the news.

Everything important can be reported without naming and identifying them. Come on guys.

 

[ElleElle]

Yeah but some things can't be fixed by mental health care. I think about half these murderers either were not diagnosed with anything, or didn't present with any "serious" symptoms and I think that many/most of these cowards did not show signs that showed they were a danger to themselves or others. Except maybe on the internet to strangers.

Therapists and doctors see vast numbers of people with neurological or mental health issues who are lower functioning than most of these creeps. And I would venture to guess that 99.9% of people with neurological or mental health issues similar to what some of these guys may have are not dangerous at all.

So what kind of care are we talking about? What treatment? How do you force an adult to go to therapy? When there, how do you force them to divulge what they are really thinking? The guy who shot up the people in Santa Barbara spoke to a psychologist and a team of cops who came out to assess him and showed no signs to them of something like what he did next.

And the guy who stalked Byork. He tried to kill her. He saw a therapist regularly for "depression". Tell me how a mental health professional is supposed to act as mind reader? How is it all supposed to work?

Don't get me wrong. I agree that our health care system and how we treat the mentally ill in this country is abysmal. I just don''t think the radical changes we need would help the kind of creeps who do stuff like this. Not most of them, who are able to act like they're functioning and h8ide what's really going on in their minds.

Great post! :cheers:. You're right, not everything can be fixed with mental health professional. Also, I think the world is evolving and maybe these mass shooters take a risk by performing these acts, hoping to still be alive to be better tested for future cases or instances, because it is not going away.

 

[La Louve]

Seriously? You really don't see how knowledge learned from past shooters has prevented more loss of life? We hear all the time about possible shootings being prevented because someone saw the signs, signs we learned from past shooters.

We do? I must've missed those headlines.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

Ok so more sleuthingn tells me: he has this weird dating profile on "spiritual passions"

Motivation always fascinates me- WHY. He was asking people what their religion was ad when they answered "christian" shooting them. So I need to know: Is this guy involved in terrorism or just a truly evil psychopath? So I found this: (And if any of these are not allowed, please delete or snip or let me know and I'll do it)

Article that discusses various online activity of CHM: http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/chris...photos-twitter-social-media-facebook-youtube/

Link to profile: http://spiritualpassions.com/seeme/ironcross45.html

Wiki article on "left hand path" (see second paragraph, specifically): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-hand_path_and_right-hand_path

So... is it possible (all my own opinion of course) that he was targeting Christians because he worships satan? (I gathered that left-hand path is pretty much occult and black magic - malicious magic, celebrating and encouraging the abandonment of moral codes, etc)...

Just guessing here. What a horrible horrible person.

 

[FindHG]

"We are UCC" said at vigil

"We are family"

Candles raised one last time



http://archive.kgw.com/legacy/iframes/breaking-video.html

 

[human]

Lots of murderers are known in other countries, The people in England who killed their kids and put them in the walls of their house , for instance,

Yes, these powerless males want notoriety in the US. But why do we have so many mass shootings?

The Sheriff sent a very unfortunate letter, I feel, after Newtown. He had his rights just like the killer in his town had his rights.

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm not sure who you're quoting but I can speak for myself: There is absolutely not one single reason that we cannot obtain knowledge about mass murderers and learn the signs, WITHOUT plastering their names and faces all over the news.

Everything important can be reported without naming and identifying them. Come on guys.

Yes. That's the difference, I think. Everything, except what the loser looks like and what his stupid name is. He's a nothing who doesn't deserve a name.

 

[Fairy1]

I think we can make a difference by shaming the media. Like the sheriff just did. Voicing our opinions and disgust when they glorify a murderer.



Yes but why does the public's curiosity outweigh the safety and right to life of the next victims of someone who craves notoriety? Because unless you are a mental health professional whose profession is the investigation and research into these people with the goal of developing prevention strategies, your knowledge about the name of the murderer is not helpful.



Unless you are a mental health researcher or professional, your knowledge of the name and ability to view the facebook page of this creep only bestows power on the him and the next mass murderer.

There are professionals who compile all the vital information about these people and who can easily disseminate it to the public in an anonymous manner that enables us to educate ourselves while denying future murderers the incentive to do something similar.

I'm sorry but my rank curiosity, morbidity and "right to know" should never take precedence over the safety and the lives of others.

It is a fact that these guys do this for notoriety - for attention and fame. It is a fact that many of them have been totally inspired by and obsessed with prior mass killings. It is not a fact at all that our ability to know their names and access their personal information does one damn thing to make anyone safe.

I disagree. This guy is dead. Whatever notoriety he hoped to gain is pointless to him now. Maybe it's our sick obsession with fame and fortune - at any cost - that is skewing people's perception of reality.

 

[KaaBoom]

His apartment is in Winchester, OR. Is that near Roseburg?

Five miles north.

 

[bluesneakers]

We do? I must've missed those headlines.

We do. They don't make for glamourous news stories though, so they don't get a lot of attention. I know I'e read a few bomb threats thwarted recently too.

There was a recent shooting stopped in Halifax, NS, though. It might not have made the news in the US.

Halifax shooting plot: Who are the 'Columbiners'?

A connection between the accused in the alleged plot to commit mass murder at a Halifax mall on Valentine's Day and the cult of Columbine on the web has shone a light on a fringe community that has existed largely in darker corners of the internet.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-shooting-plot-who-are-the-columbiners-1.2959317

 

[1&2&3]

Being we are the United States, LE has two options when they go into a mass shooting such as today: 1). Shoot to kill or 2) subdue the shooter, arrest him, a trial to discover innocent or guilty, if guilty, the subject lives in jail for the rest of his life.

What do other countries do to mass killers? Are their laws much tougher than ours which make a person fearful and less likely to commit such a crime?

I believe these mass killers go into their crime with the knowledge of being killed by cops.

My opinions only.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

<modsnip>

THANK YOU. I thought I just jumped the train to crazytown. I was about to back slowly out of this thread not making any sudden movements because I totally named him and posted links to some stuff I thought was very creepy.