OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #1

[EllieBee]

Again I point to the big banner which asks for members to assist in the LISK threads because WS has a docu deal.

So by the same logic, what good could come of sleuthing the LISK? Aren't we just giving him the attention he craves?

 

[LaborDayRN]

Sheriff: Let me be clear. I will not name the shooter. I will not give him the credit...

Media will get it in time, but you will not hear me utter his name

^^^not verbatim, but close^^^ He also encouraged the media not to, in so many words, turn him into a celebrity.

Go, Sheriff Hanlin!

I WILL however, remember Sheriff Hanlin's name! Way to go Sheriff!

 

[Truthy]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that our health care system and how we treat the mentally ill in this country is abysmal. I just don''t think the radical changes we need would help the kind of creeps who do stuff like this. Not most of them, who are able to act like they're functioning and h8ide what's really going on in their minds.

I agree, but resources are not only scarce there is still a big stigma involved in using them.
We'd have to be in a place where it was both okay and possible for kids and teenagers to avail themselves of help in a confidential way. Many families would disapprove or complicate things for their struggling teens. There are a lot of intertwined reasons people do not et help- denial is part of it- but sometimes it is the family, not the person that needs help.

We need to be kinder to people who reach out for help and try not to stigmatize or punish them.
I think there would also need to be a corresponding cultural shift away from glorfying violence and vengeance. Lots of what kids see routinely here would be adult only in Europe. I have no problem with that.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Dont speak his name. May he be forgotten, left to rot in a dark corner.

I"m in!

 

[bessie]

Again I point to the big banner which asks for members to assist in the LISK threads because WS has a docu deal.

So by the same logic, what good could come of sleuthing the LISK? Aren't we just giving him the attention he craves?

I don't necessarily disagree with your view, but I have to point out that there is nothing to indicate notoriety was a motivating factor behind the LISK murders.

 

[KaaBoom]

Correct. KGW reporting it's between town and the campus.

ETA Winchester is just south of the North Umpqua river. College is just north of the river.

I didn't realize how close they were. Until now I thought he was probably a student. Now I'm thinking maybe he wasn't. It might have just been the closest campus to where he lived, to carry out his attack.

 

[bessie]

No.

Please don't turn this into a politically charged gun control thread. Unless you want the thread shut down.

Oh, the thread won't shut down. The thread will stay open with fewer posters, that's all.

 

[ElleElle]

Being we are the United States, LE has two options when they go into a mass shooting such as today: 1). Shoot to kill or 2) subdue the shooter, arrest him, a trial to discover innocent or guilty, if guilty, the subject lives in jail for the rest of his life.

What do other countries do to mass killers? Are their laws much tougher than ours which make a person fearful and less likely to commit such a crime?

I believe these mass killers go into their crime with the knowledge of being killed by cops.

My opinions only.

Since the US is larger in population, shooting the shooter is better if there are more people around. Dylan Roof comes to mind too. He was pulled over and arrested without incident.

Canada had a shooting on Parliament Hill and the shooter was shot 31 times by six officers, including two fatal wounds from the Commons Sergeant-at-Arms, Kevin Vickers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_shootings_at_Parliament_Hill,_Ottawa

It was not a mass shooting, but could of been.

 

[EllieBee]

I don't necessarily disagree with your view, but I have to point out that there is nothing to indicate notoriety was a motivating factor behind the LISK murders.

My point was that this forum is named Websleuths.

We discuss, sleuth, speculate, etc.

Frankly, it is the reason I joined. I can only assume that to be true of other members. Otherwise, this would be thread after thread of "oh my goodness, how awful".

 

[drjones]

I could see that if there had been a manhunt for an active shooter and suspect. But in this case the shooter was reported "neutralized".

let me explain my logic.

the shooter was variously reported as down, in custody, dead, and of course you had the early reports of a second shooter (as always).

CNN reported they had a LE source close to the investigation saying that they had found a cell phone which led them to a car, both of these led them to them an ID and they could tie that ID to social media accounts.

then CNN reported, as coming from a LE source close to the investigation, that they believed this man was from the midwest, had traveled to seattle in the past 48 hours possibly to meet someone, and then driven hours south to the shooting site just prior to the shooting, possibly to find a specific target that he had possibly interacted with over the internet.

they then described this man as having been the one that posted his intentions on a website the night before, and linked him as the owner of a youtube account with videos they described in some detail.

so if i was in seattle, and heard that CNN report, i might have gone searching for more information. and what i would have found is many social media sites both naming this man and giving his youtube account link, and other social media account links of his. this is because there were many many people actively "trolling" and putting his name out there as the suspect. as a joke. but this man was actually in seattle at the time, so it all sounded quite possible...

so now if i was in seattle and heard the CNN report, and looked for more information, and then found all that - and then either later saw the man (who has a very very unique look when you see his videos) or i had seen him the night before etc - i might just be the kind of person to confront him, and i might be armed, or i might have 4 friends with me, or any other number of scenarios that would put this man's life in danger.

what are the odds of that happening? i dont know. but i dont think it is a huge stretch to say that CNN's rushed and incorrect reporting could reasonably be said to have put someone in danger.

 

[FindHG]

Portland now: http://archive.kgw.com/legacy/iframes/breaking-video.html

 

[kalekona]

Well there would be no sleuthing without knowing an identity.
We don't need to splash the name and face all over every 5 minutes but I do believe we need to know the name.

 

[Truthy]

I don't necessarily disagree with your view, but I have to point out that there is nothing to indicate notoriety was a motivating factor behind the LISK murders.

If the Chan posts happened- and they are not debunked so far- then the future killer remarked that he would finally get his picture in the paper/ be famous. (paraphrasing that last part)

 

[bessie]

My point was that this forum is named Websleuths.

We discuss, sleuth, speculate, etc.

Frankly, it is the reason I joined. I can only assume that to be true of other members. Otherwise, this would be thread after thread of "oh my goodness, how awful".

And that won't change. No one is removing your privilege to sleuth this person on WS. Some have a different point of view about mass murderers. So like most every other issue, members can agree to disagree, and scroll on.

 

[cuffem]

I agree, but resources are not only scarce there is still a big stigma involved in using them.
We'd have to be in a place where it was both okay and possible for kids and teenagers to avail themselves of help in a confidential way. Many families would disapprove or complicate things for their struggling teens. There are a lot of intertwined reasons people do not et help- denial is part of it- but sometimes it is the family, not the person that needs help.

We need to be kinder to people who reach out for help and try not to stigmatize or punish them.
I think there would also need to be a corresponding cultural shift away from glorfying violence and vengeance. Lots of what kids see routinely here would be adult only in Europe. I have no problem with that.

I have to disagree about the Europe comment.Western europeans are much more open and educational about sex than the US.They do not make a big deal about sex as being something negative.I am always suprised at what I see over there.

 

[Truthy]

i dont think it is a huge stretch to say that CNN's rushed and incorrect reporting could reasonably be said to have put someone in danger.

Bring back regulations on TV News! They used to be held accountable.

 

[Fairy1]

We do? I must've missed those headlines.

There are no headlines because there are no murders. No news is good news.

 

[Ragamuffin]

I get what you're saying but many of us are members here due to our fascination with true crime, serial killers and the like.

I agree these "glory-seeking" killers should not get the publicity they crave, but this guy is dead. And quite frankly, many of us are here because we want to know WTH makes people like this tick.

Although this is a victim-friendly forum, we ARE still a true-crime forum, right? Isn't there a big honking banner advertising how WS is part of a new doc about the LISK?

We are here because we are interested.

I'm here because I want to spot the signs. I don't want to be the mum of one of these guys who didn't have a clue. Anything and everything that causes young men to commit crimes is of great interest to me, so I can be better able to help MY son if he ever shows ANY signs that would lead to this.

JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

Well there would be no sleuthing without knowing an identity.
We don't need to splash the name and face all over every 5 minutes but I do believe we need to know the name.

Yes, this is how I'm thinking too. I want to know everything and I want us to be free to find and learn whatever we can, but I don't like how killers can be turned into anti-heroes and become household names. Is there a line? I think it's possible to be curious and want more knowledge without creating the over-the-top characters we end up with. But I'm not sure how we go about it.

 

[kalekona]

A very clear reason for the correct identity to be released is because the wrongly ID'd man has a family.