OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #1

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FindHG said:
"Mintz spent most of Thursday in surgery after receiving seven gunshots during the attack. Family members said Mintz was able to talk to loved ones before going into surgery. He told them that he heard gunshots in another classroom and tried to keep the gunman from entering his classroom."


[...]

"Family members said both of Mintz’s legs are broken and he will have to relearn to walk, but he is now recovering and expected to survive. No vital organs were hit."


Randleman victim in Oregon community college shooting tried to stop gunman, family says
FOX8 NC



How you can help: A community responds
KGW8
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Bless his soul!

BlueShoe said:
I agree. We don't need to glorify these terrible people. Still, something seems just as wrong with a headline reading "Somebody just killed 10 people. Here are the 10 victims." That sound like it was simply an act of God like a hurricane. Or just anyone off the street. We need to know and identify the killer to shock us and to eventually get us off our butts and try to do something. The evil still needs to be named. That's my opinion.
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This doesn't seem logical to me. How does the name "shock us and to eventually get us off our butts and try to do something". It's the ac t that is shocking. Not the name. And we have heard the names of how many mass murderers? Are we shocked enough yet by hearing their scary names? Have we got off our butts and done something yet?

I guess maybe it is more fun, or something, to investigate a coward's life and post things about him on the internet than it is to actually read the actual, in-depth, intensive research on HUNDREDS of mass-murderers throughout history, what they have in common, what motivates them, their psych profiles and personalities. Not so much to me, but I guess to others.

Finally, why is it between naming them and plastering their faces all over the media and reporting, only, "Somebody just killed 10 people. Here are the 10 victims."

I'm sorry but that makes zero sense.

What happened, where, how, when, the details of the event, 911 tapes, video, photos, etc., as well as a profile of the murderer - age, sex, ethnic background, religion, political ideology,job history, education level, family make-up, living situation, even internet activity, and planning, what is found in his home, guns used, possible psych treatment, ALL of that can be reported without naming the person or showing their picture.
 
gitana1 said:
In my experience (both parents immigrated from Europe and most of my family is still there), sex is not censored from kids but violence is. I thought that's what the poster meant? I think violence is destructive to developing minds. I don't think sex is as much unless it is combined with violence or degradation (or unless it is being actually done to kids by an adult or older person).
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Teens these days are sexting and being forced to send nude photos of themselves via text. This creates a whole new dimension, as IMO, it can lead to violence.
 
Dogface said:
This may not be a popular opinion but I think a reason we see this continue to happen is because of sites like 4chan. I think, before the Internet, kids who were maybe on the outside of things had a lot of these feelings, but didn't get validation of it from a huge group of people who tell them they would be heroes for slaughtering people. Typically, they would get out of highschool and continue on with their lives and things got better. Now, they separate from reality into this fantasyland and devolve into these monsters.

I agree that the shooter should never be more important than the victims. Mass killings happened before, and killers were named throughout history, so I don't think that is the sole problem. But I don't like seeing the killer over and over again with so little focus on the victims. Parents, teachers and friends need to know what the signs are, they need to see that it could be their kid, they need to know about sites like 4chan. Knowledge is power, we need to know about the killer, but we need to know about the victims too.
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it seems like we should wait to find out if the person actually ever posted on or read 4chan before we blame them for anything.
 
I understand the concern about not naming. It is just that naming makes the entire incident seem real, at least to me. I do agree that the photo is not needed. People do look at these horrifying incidents differently, and maybe it is just trying to understand why humans do what they do, but I am more shocked when I can imagine the incident, instead of just reading about what happened. Maybe it is just me, but not illogical. Imo.
 
Truthy said:
Oh yes, regarding sex they are much more liberal! It is graphic violence that they restrict much more than we do here. Kids do not have access to that crap like they do here.
Was not speaking to their views about sex at all.
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Sorry Truthy,my mistake.Not sure why my mind went there(sex).
 
Dogface said:
This may not be a popular opinion but I think a reason we see this continue to happen is because of sites like 4chan. I think, before the Internet, kids who were maybe on the outside of things had a lot of these feelings, but didn't get validation of it from a huge group of people who tell them they would be heroes for slaughtering people. Typically, they would get out of highschool and continue on with their lives and things got better. Now, they separate from reality into this fantasyland and devolve into these monsters.

I agree that the shooter should never be more important than the victims. Mass killings happened before, and killers were named throughout history, so I don't think that is the sole problem. But I don't like seeing the killer over and over again with so little focus on the victims. Parents, teachers and friends need to know what the signs are, they need to see that it could be their kid, they need to know about sites like 4chan. Knowledge is power, we need to know about the killer, but we need to know about the victims too.
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BBM.

Yes and we can get all of that information without naming the creep.

In fact, we already have all that information that has been neatly compiled by actual researchers into incredibly detailed articles.

Not only that, but every single news agency reporting on these things always reports, in great detail, on what the "signs"are, if any. And most have mental health professionals and other experts to explain, also i great detail, what the signs are. Or were.

Listen, I am not in favor of censorship. I would not agree with a law that would forbid publishing identifying information. That would be very dangerous.

But I am for a culture change and decorum. News agencies typically, now, have policies that cause them to pan their cameras back so we don;t see a person at the end of a car chase get shot or kill themselves. Also, they have policies not to show most deaths during re-broadcasts that may have inadvertently been aired, live.

Is that wrong?

I think the information should be obtainable by any citizen or news agency directly from the police. I also think that we should become less voyeuristic as a society and less forgiving of corporations that put profit over people.

But that's just my opinion. Each person needs to look into their own hearts and determine what's right or wrong for them. I hope for a culture shift though. This stuff is senseless and heartbreaking, And we can do something about it.
 
I am anxiously awaiting the names of the innocent victims. They are the most important people of this horrific day.
 
gitana1 said:
Bless his soul!



This doesn't seem logical to me. How does the name "shock us and to eventually get us off our butts and try to do something". It's the ac t that is shocking. Not the name. And we have heard the names of how many mass murderers? Are we shocked enough yet by hearing their scary names? Have we got off our butts and done something yet?

I guess maybe it is more fun, or something, to investigate a coward's life and post things about him on the internet than it is to actually read the actual, in-depth, intensive research on HUNDREDS of mass-murderers throughout history, what they have in common, what motivates them, their psych profiles and personalities. Not so much to me, but I guess to others.

Finally, why is it between naming them and plastering their faces all over the media and reporting, only, "Somebody just killed 10 people. Here are the 10 victims."

I'm sorry but that makes zero sense.

What happened, where, how, when, the details of the event, 911 tapes, video, photos, etc., as well as a profile of the murderer - age, sex, ethnic background, religion, political ideology,job history, education level, family make-up, living situation, even internet activity, and planning, what is found in his home, guns used, possible psych treatment, ALL of that can be reported without naming the person or showing their picture.
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What difference does it make? The killer is DEAD. He's not going to enjoy any of his "notoriety." There will be no trial, no mental health evaluations, no fighting over death penalty or LWOP. He will just be another dead loser that lived with his mother and blamed his problems on the world.

Profiles are important, IMO.
 
cuffem said:
Sorry Truthy,my mistake.Not sure why my mind went there(sex).
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No problem, I think I did say that graphic violence often gets an X rating. So, as Americans, we think sex @ X. ;-)

I think because of the X rated market forces narrowing the audience for violence, it is much less common there. And since the audience is adult, they are usually much more thoughtful films- with violence less likely to be celebrated. There are loads of super violent American movies that are marketed to kids and have no redeeming social value- the violence is seen as "fun". I don't think it's good for developing minds.

I just heard a quote on TV "There is no profit at all in reducing murder."
Sad, but true.
 
gitana1 said:
BBM. Interesting parallel.





Oh wow. Just brings me to tears. Horrible.






I'm sorry, maybe I'm not clear. The incentive for this guy was the knowledge that he would be known across the country. That was his incentive. It is irrelevant that he is not here to enjoy that notoriety. 'He knew it would be there. More important, the incentive for every other sicko who is watching the news and printing out photos and articles about the murders is being developed every time his name is mentioned and every time his photo is shown.

I don't think I'm crazy here or out of left field. Experts and victims seem to agree with me:


1. No Name. No Photo. No Notoriety.http://nonotoriety.com/


2.What Mass Killers Want—And How to Stop Them
Rampage shooters crave the spotlight, and we should do everything possible to deprive them of it.http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303309504579181702252120052
(Waaay more at link. Incredibly in depth article that basically explains everything some are claiming we can only learn through personal knowledge of these murderers names.)


3. The Media’s Complicity in Granting Fame to Mass Killers
http://peterdaou.com/2015/06/time-for-the-media-to-censor-the-names-of-fame-seeking-mass-killers/
(More at link)


4. A psychiatrist's insightful perspective on news coverage's perpetuation of mass shootings in schools:

[video=youtube;PezlFNTGWv4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4[/video]


5. Academic journal article in the Journal of Mass Media Ethics, 9:1 [Winter 1993-94]:
Ethical Problems of Mass Murder Coverage In The Mass Mediahttp://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/JMME2.htm


6. Let's stop giving murderers the publicity they'd kill for
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/stop-giving-murderers-publicity-kill-article-1.272193



In any event, I feel very certain about the ramifications of publicizing identifying and other info about these lunatics and I just feel it is voyeuristic and seriously unethical.

There is one definitive way we can reduce these killings that is simple and easy to do. I hope everyone looks into their hearts and supports a push for the media to stop giving these creeps what they crave. And stop fueling the next one.

I won't remember his name. I won't write it or read it. I'm heart sick about this, yet another senseless slaughter. So sad. And so sad that people think their curiosity is more important than the lives of others.
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Just bringing this forward....
 
[...]

"The gunman who opened fire at at Oregon's Umpqua Community College singled out Christians, according to the father of a wounded student.

Before going into spinal surgery, Anastasia Boylan told her father and brother the gunman entered her classroom firing."

[...]

"And they would stand up and he said, 'Good, because you're a Christian, you're going to see God in just about one second,'" Boylan's father, Stacy, told CNN, relaying her account.

"And then he shot and killed them."


[...]


http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-umpqua-community-college-shooting/index.html
By Ed Payne, CNN
Updated 12:27 AM ET, Fri October 2, 2015
 
Fairy1 said:
What difference does it make? The killer is DEAD. He's not going to enjoy any of his "notoriety."
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But it's not about 'this killer' -- it's about the next one, who kills because he seeks the immortality of notoriety (as this fellow did), whether or not his delusions allow him to recognize that he may not live to 'enjoy' it.
 
drjones said:
it seems like we should wait to find out if the person actually ever posted on or read 4chan before we blame them for anything.
Click to expand...

There has been many crimes linked to 4chan, one man even killed his gf and posted the pics there. Someone reposted the naked, lifeless pics of her on there, where he talked about her son would be home to find her murdered soon. It's a sick subculture and can only breed bad things. And almost all these people have a web presence.

ETA: the pics above were posted today, in the thread about these shootings.

ETA 2: how many of these people do we find have extremely disturbing stuff online?
 
Moved to Oregon in 2013

http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-...ved-in-torrance-graduated-from-switzer-center

Lists of South Bay graduates from 2009 published in the Daily Breeze showed Harper-Mercer graduated from the Switzer Learning Center in Torrance with four other students. Switzer teaches students with learning disabilities and emotional issues.

A former behavioral aide at Switzer, who did not want her name used, said the majority of the students at the school are from foster, low-income and single-parent homes. Some of these students were expelled from other schools or had been in trouble with the law.

The school is divided among special needs students and those with behavioral problems.
 
Hundreds gather at candlelight vigil in Roseburg
“We need love and compassion and healing and it’s going to take a long time.”
By Taylor W. Anderson, The Bend Bulletin
10 minutes, 47 seconds ago.

[...]

At a nearby gas station, Dustin Carroll waited for news on a cousin who was an Umpqua student who the family tried unsuccessfully to reach before hearing the cousin was unharmed.

“It’s a shame (the shooter) didn’t cry out for help,” Carroll said.





Roseburg Tragedy Creates Blood Donation Need
Mike Weber, Eugene Daily News
bout 15 min ago

[...]

Information about locations and times to donate in Portland, Vancouver, or Western Washington can be found at bloodworksnw.org or by calling 1-800-398-7888.”
a link to Lane Blood center can be found here http://lanebloodcenter.org/


Oregon Shooting at Umpqua College Kills 10, Sheriff Says
By Dirk Vanderhart, Kirk Johnson & Julie Turkewitz, New York Times
Oct 1 '15

Nine victims and gunman dead in mass shooting at Ore. community college
By Joseph Hoyt, Mark Berman and Jerry Markon, The Washington Post
October 2, 12:55 am

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oregon-college-gunman-torrance-20151001-story.html
Ruben Vives, Matt Hamilton and Richard Winton
Oct 1 9 pmish

Neighbors at a sprawling apartment complex in Torrance thought it was odd a few years ago when they saw... and his mother carrying black cases that they suspected held firearms.

At a community barbecue, some asked Mercer whether he owned guns. Mercer deflected the question, but acknowledged that he liked to practice target shooting, said David Westly, 45.


[...]

Neighbors in Torrance said Mercer and his mother largely kept to themselves. Mercer’s mother sometimes got involved in community disputes, such as complaints about loud noises. She once circulated a petition to get the apartment owner to eradicate a cockroach infestation. Neighbors said she told them the insects kept her son awake at night.


[...]
 
EllieBee said:
Even believing that, it does not make it true that the guns were illegally obtained as was stated as a fact upthread.
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So .. What Obama said in his speech was spot on again, I hope people are willing to do what is required to help fix this situation.
 
Now that the shooter has been identified, I wonder why people are on here reading about it if they do not want to add to his notoriety? I agree that these narcisstic losers are looking for it, but then why is everyone on here reading about him?
 
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