OR OR - Portland, Willamette River, WhtFem 30-40, UP9599, Road Runner ring, clothes, c-section, Sep'93

[thess]

In general, yes. In this case...I'm not sure. It seems entirely plausible that if her ex-husband beat her up (I haven't seen anything to indicate whether or not he's a suspect)...

Yeah, I can see some of the frustration you guys must run into--it's very hard to find any info about the case. A local daily (el paso times? something) had an archive story but you had to pay $3 to get it. Do you guys end up doing that kind of thing often? A quick summary of it said something about her being in the military. It also said she had a premonition about being killed and buried in the desert.

http://tinyurl.com/8mg4nue

Cold-case file on Linda Soto: Police still seek answers for woman presumed slain in '93
Author: Adriana M. Chávez / El Paso Times
Date: March 1, 2010
Publication: El Paso Times (TX)

EL PASO -- Herlinda Soto always had a fear of the desert, despite living in El Paso for years and serving in Operation Desert Storm as an Army Reservist.

Soto's friend and former attorney, Angie Juarez Barill, now a state district court judge, said Soto had a premonition that someone would kill her and bury her in the desert where no one could find her.
A few years later, what Soto feared apparently became a reality. Police believe somebody murdered her during the Fourth...
Click here for complete article ($2.95)

Also, since it's noted she had just gained full custody of her children, it also makes ex seems suspicious.

Regarding Jane Doe, I think it's noted that she had healed broken ribs. Oh, and of course Jane Doe had had children.

 

[ualaw99]

Ok, just so I can understand what kind of cases should be assumed to violate "Occam's Razor" (i.e., too complicated/unlikely), is it specifically because they found blood in Soto's house? (Sometimes it's described as 'smears', sometimes 'a significant quantity') In other words, the simplest/most likely explanation is that she died at the scene or was dead soon after abduction, and therefore her being alive for two more months--and maybe having some wounds heal--before she went into the Willamette many states away is just too complicated/unlikely?

Thanks in advance (do want to learn).

That is the way I approach it (although I just do this casually and enjoy reading others thoughts moreso than making my own posts).

In this instance, I watched the video linked above before I found out the cause of death was drowning - I don't think the articles specifically stated it or I wouldn't have noticed it.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, I can see some of the frustration you guys must run into--it's very hard to find any info about the case. A local daily (el paso times? something) had an archive story but you had to pay $3 to get it. Do you guys end up doing that kind of thing often?

That varies according to your interests and resources. Some people do. Some people specialize in areas they already have memberships in, like alumni associations, newspaper archives, ancestry.com, and so forth. Often if you ask, you can find somebody here who subscribes to a particular publication and can get the article for you.

A quick summary of it said something about her being in the military. It also said she had a premonition about being killed and buried in the desert.

http://tinyurl.com/8mg4nue

Also, since it's noted she had just gained full custody of her children, it also makes ex seems suspicious.

Her doenet article mentions the military service and so forth. http://doenetwork.org/cases/968dftx.html

It also mentions that the case isn't considered a homicde, which makes it sound like there's some evidence she might not have died at the time. I agree, the situation makes it sound bad for the ex.

Regarding Jane Doe, I think it's noted that she had healed broken ribs. Oh, and of course Jane Doe had had children.

All good points.

We all have different philosophies in cases like this. I tend to view my job as finding possible leads for LE to investigate, so I generally just say "this is why I think it might fit, even though x, y, and z point against it." Or something along those lines. I seldom rule something out on technical dental issues -- I figure only a forensic dentist really has the qualifications for that -- or on circumstances, if that's the only thing going against it. But other people with more experience and skill in a certain area feel comfortable making ruleouts on that basis.

It all depends on what you're comfortable with. There is no single "right" way.

Well, except for the usual, be courteous, be reasonable, be patient.

 

[thess]

Bumping this because I think I read last night (while completely exhausted) that we would be hearing from Nici Vance again soon, about a specific missing woman.

Also wondering how you experienced folks felt about the possible physical/facial resemblance of the two I suggested in post 19 (I know it's unlikely to be Soto and I understand why, just curious for feedback on my visual matching attempt.)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Willamette River in Portland - White Female (NamUs #9599) 30-40, Sept 1993

 

[carbuff]

I tend not to comment on visuals because I'm really bad at it It looked pretty good to me.

 

[thess]

I tend not to comment on visuals because I'm really bad at it It looked pretty good to me.

Thanks. Mostly asking because I feel like it's a piece of this stuff I *might* be good at, as I pay a lot of attention to faces (this came up when we first saw Ari Liggett's mugshots). But I also know the sketches/post-mortem reconstructions can probably be quite deceptive.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks. Mostly asking because I feel like it's a piece of this stuff I *might* be good at, as I pay a lot of attention to faces (this came up when we first saw Ari Liggett's mugshots). But I also know the sketches/post-mortem reconstructions can probably be quite deceptive.

They can be. One of the reasons to research all the major websites and so forth is to try to find more photos of the missing person and more versions of the reconstruction -- the more data you have, the more likely you are to make a match.

The Doe Network (doenet.org) has a photo index that you can scan looking for people who match a reconstruction. It's kind of slow but as good as you are with faces, it might be useful.

 

[airplanelamp]

I wonder if its possible she was Canadian? Portland isn't that far from BC Canada. There were sooooo many missing women in BC Canada in that time period.

 

[Kimster]

:rose: Our featured cold case from 10/21 to 10/28/2012 :rose:

 

[Neptune]

I will keep an eye on this case and try to work it. In the meantime, I'll see if Port of Portland (or whatever agency keeps track of the comings and goings of Swan Island activity) has any shipping records from Sept 1993. I shipped for years (out of Honolulu) and have many friends who still ship deep sea and inland rivers and lakes. Crew members do go missing from ships. Ships are transient and water moves -- if you don't want someone around, it would be easy to toss them overboard if the right moment presented itself (there were often jokes about this and it did happen). To me, her sturdy shoes could indicate she may have worked on a vessel.

 

[Kimster]

I will keep an eye on this case and try to work it. In the meantime, I'll see if Port of Portland (or whatever agency keeps track of the comings and goings of Swan Island activity) has any shipping records from Sept 1993. I shipped for years (out of Honolulu) and have many friends who still ship deep sea and inland rivers and lakes. Crew members do go missing from ships. Ships are transient and water moves -- if you don't want someone around, it would be easy to toss them overboard if the right moment presented itself (there were often jokes about this and it did happen). To me, her sturdy shoes could indicate she may have worked on a vessel.

Interesting! I never would have thought of that! Thank you for this clue! :rocker:

 

[maureen]

Trying to post closeup of Herlinda Soto and the UID side by side

 

[Neptune]

Not sure how helpful, but my own opinion about Silver Roadrunner Ring.

If the sketch is correct, this looks to me like the ring was one-of-a-kind -- possibly made by someone close to her especially for her and it was sentimental or symbolic (since she wore it on her left hand ring finger).

The Reason Why:
If the ring was manufactured and sold commercially it would have to have widespread appeal. Artwork placed sideways on a ring has an awkward look (think of ring displays) and a ring designer and/or manufacturer would know this. Ring artwork almost always faces either toward the wearer so they can see it or away from the wearer so others can see it – not to the right- or the left-side of the wearer like the artwork on Jane Doe’s roadrunner ring. A professional jewelry designer (usually fastidious about how their work is presented) would likely not place artwork to face to the side or license it to a manufacturer who would place it on the ring facing sideways. Nor would a manufacturer want to produce this ring in mass quantities as it likely wouldn’t sell.

The roadrunner on the sketch – if drawn fairly accurately – could have easily been copied from a cartoon or artwork prior to 1993. I don’t see a copyright date on Dan Collin’s work, but it appears older http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/r/roadrunner.asp and it looks very similar.

It looks to me like whoever created the ring was more interested in the sentiment of the ring and what the Roadrunner symbolized and didn’t think about the direction of the artwork.

The woman may have been a fast-mover and Roadrunner may have been her nickname. Or, she may be genetically or culturally tied to SW United States. The roadrunner is the official state bird of New Mexico. The Hopi and Pueblo Indian tribes believed that the roadrunner provided protection against evil spirits.

So, I’ve been searching through 1993 missing women from California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and Oklahoma where roadrunners are found.

 

[Neptune]

Note: Roadrunner ring comparison. On the right, imagine more of a circle not so oval. The upload skewed it.

 

[CarlK90245]

I found a similar ring on e-bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roadrunner-...age-Native-American-7-7-25-Oval-/370661515326


The image is placed sideways on this one too.

 

[CarlK90245]

Here's a woman from New Mexico who was into jewelry making, and appeared (at least initially) to have disappeared voluntarily.

Edyth Ann Warner
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/warner_edyth.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/657/0

There's a 2 1/2 year lag, and her listed height is a tad short, but she does have a very similarly squared jawline, and looks quite a bit like this sketch of the Jane Doe.

 

[carbuff]

Not sure how helpful, but my own opinion about Silver Roadrunner Ring.

If the sketch is correct, this looks to me like the ring was one-of-a-kind -- possibly made by someone close to her especially for her and it was sentimental or symbolic (since she wore it on her left hand ring finger).

The Reason Why:
If the ring was manufactured and sold commercially it would have to have widespread appeal. Artwork placed sideways on a ring has an awkward look (think of ring displays) and a ring designer and/or manufacturer would know this. Ring artwork almost always faces either toward the wearer so they can see it or away from the wearer so others can see it – not to the right- or the left-side of the wearer like the artwork on Jane Doe’s roadrunner ring. A professional jewelry designer (usually fastidious about how their work is presented) would likely not place artwork to face to the side or license it to a manufacturer who would place it on the ring facing sideways. Nor would a manufacturer want to produce this ring in mass quantities as it likely wouldn’t sell.

The roadrunner on the sketch – if drawn fairly accurately – could have easily been copied from a cartoon or artwork prior to 1993. I don’t see a copyright date on Dan Collin’s work, but it appears older http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/r/roadrunner.asp and it looks very similar.

It looks to me like whoever created the ring was more interested in the sentiment of the ring and what the Roadrunner symbolized and didn’t think about the direction of the artwork.

The woman may have been a fast-mover and Roadrunner may have been her nickname. Or, she may be genetically or culturally tied to SW United States. The roadrunner is the official state bird of New Mexico. The Hopi and Pueblo Indian tribes believed that the roadrunner provided protection against evil spirits.

So, I’ve been searching through 1993 missing women from California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and Oklahoma where roadrunners are found.

No, that's a Hopi/Zuni style roadrunner. Note the two lines out the bird's back representing feathers. In the ones I've seen including my own, the design almost always runs lengthwise to the wearer's finger. I don't know whether that's part of the protection mythology around the roadrunner, or just because the design tends to be long and thin.

I think you're right she likely is from or has ties to the southwest, but southwestern jewelry was extremely popular all over the country in the 80's and early 90's so I wouldn't limit myself to those states.

 

[thess]

No, that's a Hopi/Zuni style roadrunner. Note the two lines out the bird's back representing feathers. The design is awkwardly long so it almost always runs lengthwise to the wearer's finger.

I think you're right that she likely is from or has ties to the southwest, but southwestern jewelry was extremely popular all over the country in the 80's and early 90's so I wouldn't limit myself to those states.

Yeah, I remember exactly what you're talking about it, esp. in early 90s. I had this whole southwestern theme bathroom decor, from Target or KMart or something, and it seemed like every guy I knew had a kokopelli necklace. Oh, and everyone had a 'dream catcher' hanging from their rearview mirror.

That said, Herlinda Soto *was* from TX...

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, I remember exactly what you're talking about it, esp. in early 90s. I had this whole southwestern theme bathroom decor, from Target or KMart or something, and it seemed like every guy I knew had a kokopelli necklace. Oh, and everyone had a 'dream catcher' hanging from their rearview mirror.

That said, Herlinda Soto *was* from TX...

I think you ought to go ahead and submit Herlinda.

 

[thess]

I think you ought to go ahead and submit Herlinda.

Hmm, I'm poking around but it seems like the most straightforward way to do this is call, and I'm definitely not much of a phone person. I couldn't find an email for Nici Vance (can't say I blame her). If someone else wants to give it a try/call it in, I certainly don't mind.

This is another sketch that to me looks pretty consistent with Herlinda, especially the high cheekbones and lip shape; Soto's face is fuller but the Jane Doe report says she had recently lost weight. (Not sure how they figure that out, but it could account for the thinner face in sketches.)