OR - PRESIDENTIAL PARDON - Militia members occupy federal building in Oregon after protest #4

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Vehicle had been traveling in excess of 70 mph, when it hit the snowbank it was traveling at 50 mph.
 
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/what_oregon_standoff_investiga.html

NO TIME TO STOP:

Claim: Finicum had no chance to stop when encountering the roadblock, forcing him to drive off the road to avoid a collision.
Investigation: Investigators calculated Finicum had 862 feet – nearly the length of three football fields – to stop once he saw the roadblock. A state police van chasing him did manage to stop. Investigators experimented twice, replicating Finicum's estimated speed, and concluded he could have stopped.
FINICUM AND WEAPONS:

Claim: Finicum was unarmed when he was shot.
Investigation: Police found a 9mm Ruger semi-automatic handgun inside Finicum's left jacket pocket. The gun was loaded with a round in the chamber, meaning it was ready to fire. He had two magazines in his right jacket pocket.
 
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_fbi_lie_uncove.html
The fourth round, police concluded, was fired by an FBI agent who subsequently twice denied to investigators ever firing his gun. As the investigation proceeded, detectives determined he also fired a second time, but didn't hit anything at the scene.
The discovery of that gunfire and conduct afterward by the agent and four other agents have triggered a criminal investigation that could result in the prosecution of all five. The agents all serve on the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team. Authorities on Tuesday released few details about the matter and didn't identify the agents by name.
But the disclosure is a jolt to the FBI. The Oregon investigators two weeks ago flew to Washington, D.C., to directly brief top FBI officials about their findings. The U.S. Justice Department's Office of Inspector General is now investigating along with the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office. The Inspector General's Office, which is separate from the FBI, doesn't discuss active investigations.
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Oh that's not good, it will get a lot of mileage with "the patriots"
 
FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting

By Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive Email
on March 08, 2016 at 10:10 AM, updated March 08, 2016 at 10:54 AM

BEND – An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicium and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday.

The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five unnamed agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. Inspector General Michael Horowitz is leading the independent inquiry.

The remarkable disclosure came as a team of local investigators released findings that two state troopers shot Finicium three times in the back during the chaotic scene at a police roadblock Jan. 26. One bullet pierced his heart, an autopsy showed.

A prosecutor ruled the fatal shooting was legally justified, saying state law allows use of deadly force when officers believe a person is about to seriously injure or kill someone. Finicum kept moving his hands toward a pocket that contained a loaded handgun. Although he was shot from behind, Finicum had a trooper in front of him armed with a Taser who was thought to be in danger.​
 
One of the most interesting things to me was the showing of the Shawna Cox video. It fills in what was going on inside the Finicum vehicle during the initial traffic stop. As well as the running into the snowbank.

Hopefully one of the media will release it to all of us.
 
i.b.nora said:
FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting

By Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive Email
on March 08, 2016 at 10:10 AM, updated March 08, 2016 at 10:54 AM

BEND – An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicium and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday.

The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five unnamed agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. Inspector General Michael Horowitz is leading the independent inquiry.

The remarkable disclosure came as a team of local investigators released findings that two state troopers shot Finicium three times in the back during the chaotic scene at a police roadblock Jan. 26. One bullet pierced his heart, an autopsy showed.

A prosecutor ruled the fatal shooting was legally justified, saying state law allows use of deadly force when officers believe a person is about to seriously injure or kill someone. Finicum kept moving his hands toward a pocket that contained a loaded handgun. Although he was shot from behind, Finicum had a trooper in front of him armed with a Taser who was thought to be in danger.​
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Even in the Wild West days, shooting a man in the back before he even pulled his gun was considered to be a gutless cowardly act. It’s sad that we have come to a point where people will actually defend this type of cowardice from our LEOs.

Making a marter of this guy, before they even saw a gun, just doesn’t make any sense. It just wrecks what should have been a perfect case.

FBI agents lying to cover up, shooting wildly into the top of the vehicle, cops shooting in a crossfire situation towards each other. It’s lucky some of the cops weren’t killed by friendly fire. I know none of them will ever be charged, but I bet they have already decided how much money to pay out to Finicium’s family for the wrongful death suit.
 
[video=youtube;cWvvrB6mDwg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWvvrB6mDwg[/video]
 
While I've never doubted LaVoy had it coming, I'm very disappointed about the FBI lies and cover up. What is the point of that?
 
https://t.co/ZN1PJwzq3Y

Jeanette Finicum news release today. Is going to have a press conferece tomorrow responding to today's law enforcement press conference.

Sounds like everyone has drunk the Kool-Aid.
 
While LE may not have had their ducks 100% in a row, I still think Finicum wouldn't have hesitated to draw on them and take a few down with him if they hadn't shot him first. He was a threat. He was reaching into his waistband and he had a loaded gun. It's not like he was surrendering with his hands up or was unarmed. Also since Shawna Cox didn't want to stop for the roadblock, doubt he was in a mindset to cooperate either...
 
S. Cox fueled that situation with drama. Shame on her. Then oh well...her interpretation of it. What a video can change as far as testimony. Let's hear ya say it again Cox. jmo
 
Fairy1 said:
While I've never doubted LaVoy had it coming, I'm very disappointed about the FBI lies and cover up. What is the point of that?
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The point is, they knew they screwed up right from the start. They had a vehicle riddled with bullets, a suspect dead on the ground, shot in the back, and no visible weapon on the suspect. They knew they had to start lying to cover their own asses. Some of them (OSP) came up with better lies then others (FBI).

There is no moral justification for shooting a suspect in the back, just because the cops THINK he might be armed. Legally yes, they can get away with it. The cops in this country can get away with killing any one for any reason. But all it accomplished was to give these militia nuts a martyr.

I have no idea what you think Finicum did to deserve the death penalty. He didn’t hurt any one. He didn’t kill anyone. He definitely deserved 5 or 10 years in a federal prison for taking over government property. But the death penalty, I think not. Most of these people deserve to be in a mental hospital, not even in a prison, let alone being executed for their crimes.
 
LinasK said:
While LE may not have had their ducks 100% in a row, I still think Finicum wouldn't have hesitated to draw on them and take a few down with him if they hadn't shot him first. He was a threat. He was reaching into his waistband and he had a loaded gun. It's not like he was surrendering with his hands up or was unarmed. Also since Shawna Cox didn't want to stop for the roadblock, doubt he was in a mindset to cooperate either...
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I’m sorry, but that makes no sense, what so ever. If he wanted to shoot LE he could have taken his gun out of his pocket, before he got out of the vehicle and came out shooting. He would not have left it in his pocket and came out of the vehicle with his hands up. That gave him no chance of shooting anyone.

I see zero evidence in the videos that they wanted to kill anyone. First both vehicles stopped and they complied with LE. Then Finicum and Cox decided to make a run for it, and try to get to the next county, where they thought the Sheriff would protect them. Yes, I know they were delusional, but that was clearly their mindset, by the conversation in the video. Then when they hit the road block, they tried their best to surrender. Finicum by jumping out of the vehicle with his hands up. The rest of them by staying in the vehicle and discussing a plan for surrender, while LE fired multiple rounds at them. Bundy had his gun. He could have returned fire, but he didn’t do that.

Listen to what they were saying. Nobody was talking about killing LEOs. As messed up as they people were, that was not their plan.
 
KaaBoom said:
I’m sorry, but that makes no sense, what so ever. If he wanted to shoot LE he could have taken his gun out of his pocket, before he got out of the vehicle and came out shooting. He would not have left it in his pocket and came out of the vehicle with his hands up. That gave him no chance of shooting anyone.

I see zero evidence in the videos that they wanted to kill anyone. First both vehicles stopped and they complied with LE. Then Finicum and Cox decided to make a run for it, and try to get to the next county, where they thought the Sheriff would protect them. Yes, I know they were delusional, but that was clearly their mindset, by the conversation in the video. Then when they hit the road block, they tried their best to surrender. Finicum by jumping out of the vehicle with his hands up. The rest of them by staying in the vehicle and discussing a plan for surrender, while LE fired multiple rounds at them. Bundy had his gun. He could have returned fire, but he didn’t do that.

Listen to what they were saying. Nobody was talking about killing LEOs. As messed up as they people were, that was not their plan.
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They were NOT complying with LE. Finicum drove the car off in a high speed chase when he was being detained. You can also hear him being told when he gets out of the car to get on the ground. He refused and continued to yell "you're going to have to shoot me" while reaching for his waistband. That's not surrendering at all. I don't think he intended to shoot the cops but it appears he intended to force them to shoot him. He made it very clear in earlier video statements that he would rather die then be taken into custody and he was going to make sure that happened. It was suicide by cop.
 
Also the vehicle was not "riddled" with bullets. That was a line Shawna Cox and Victoria Sharp repeated, but it's clear from the video they don't know the difference between shots and flash-bangs. They shot at the vehicle three times as it rushed the roadblock and once when Finicum got out. That's four. Not "riddled" (you can see the report here: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/what_oregon_standoff_investiga.html) The rest of the noises were clearly flash-bangs (you can see the flash of them going off, it's not muzzle flash.) They also fired several "bean bag" rounds.

The only thing that anyone lied about was that warning shot at the vehicle when Finicum exited the car. And while that was a stupid thing to lie about (I'm guessing that SOP only allowed for warning shots against vehicles, not people), it only further shows that Finicum got out of that car intending to die. If someone fires a warning shot at you and yells at you to get on the ground, you don't just keep walking.
 
KaaBoom said:
The point is, they knew they screwed up right from the start. They had a vehicle riddled with bullets, a suspect dead on the ground, shot in the back, and no visible weapon on the suspect. They knew they had to start lying to cover their own asses. Some of them (OSP) came up with better lies then others (FBI).

There is no moral justification for shooting a suspect in the back, just because the cops THINK he might be armed. Legally yes, they can get away with it. The cops in this country can get away with killing any one for any reason. But all it accomplished was to give these militia nuts a martyr.

I have no idea what you think Finicum did to deserve the death penalty. He didn’t hurt any one. He didn’t kill anyone. He definitely deserved 5 or 10 years in a federal prison for taking over government property. But the death penalty, I think not. Most of these people deserve to be in a mental hospital, not even in a prison, let alone being executed for their crimes.
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I never said I thought he deserved the death penalty for his crimes. But I think we can all agree there are certain behaviors that significantly increase one's chances of being harmed. Taking up arms against federal authorities while trespassing on federal land and making repeated and very public statements about how you will not be taken alive are examples of such behaviors. Others include "gunning it" away from LE when stopped, running from a vehicle after running into a roadblock, refusing LE's commands and reaching for your weapon. IMO, under such circumstances, common sense is a much better weapon than a firearm.

As far as the FBI lies are concerned; these are supposedly highly trained agents with very specific skills. Surely they knew the evidence would not support their stories. And the shots that killed Finicum were not fired by FBI agents. So why lie?

Riddled with bullets? Did I miss a report stating this?
 
stormshine said:
They were NOT complying with LE. Finicum drove the car off in a high speed chase when he was being detained. You can also hear him being told when he gets out of the car to get on the ground. He refused and continued to yell "you're going to have to shoot me" while reaching for his waistband. That's not surrendering at all. I don't think he intended to shoot the cops but it appears he intended to force them to shoot him. He made it very clear in earlier video statements that he would rather die then be taken into custody and he was going to make sure that happened. It was suicide by cop.
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Please read what I said. I said, "First both vehicles stopped and they complied”. I stand by that statement.

People have varying degrees of ability to comply with LE instructions. English language difficulties, mental issues, etc. can interfere. Those are not excuses for LEOs to execute the suspect because of it. They have to be trained to be patient and negotiate with the suspects in those cases.

Anyway I’m happy you understand that he did not intend to shoot LEOs. Which means that they shot a man who was not a threat to them. Their car was stuck in the snow. Their cell phones were not working. They were not going anywhere. The cops could have negotiated with them all night. Once it had sunk in that the people in the other car had surrendered, and that they were not going to make it out of the county, chances are they would have surrendered too. It would have been over in a few hours, with no deaths and no martyrs.
 
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