GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[newsjunkie]

habitual liar

*advertiser censored* addict

struggling with his faith(?)

La Louve- just jumping off your post.

He seems quite immature to me. He was so concerned about their finances, but couldn't seem to keep a job, and yet they had not only 2 laptops, but an iPad, as well.

I know I read that he said he bought at least one of the laptops used, but iPads are pretty pricey even used.

I don't get the impression AH was authoritative, however, she seems to me to be the only responsible adult in the house. So maybe that is why some get that vibe from their relationship.

 

[Sasquatch]

The thanks button just wasn't enough for this. That was so sweet of you to take flowers out to where Whitney spent her last moments.

If I recall from the timeline proposed previously there was 5 minutes allotted for cleanup of the vehicle, which could have been postponed until Larch mountain, giving Holt 5 more minutes to get to the Shell.

Just curious, did you notice if there were any school bus stops along the route?

Thank you! I am sure JH 's cleanups were probably more of tossing things out, than stopping and cleaning, before he got up on Larch Mtn. My drive through Dodge Park parking lot was only a couple of minutes, and 23 minutes would be cutting it too close if there were long cleanups. Debris can be found everywhere along side the road. There was a top to an office chair on the side, a toy plastic drill, garbage bag and plastic bottles and cans. It would be tough to know what was out of place in the Dodge Park area when there is a lot of trash thrown around the sides of the road. Pine needles are not in the turn out, so the pine needles on the Explorer were most likely from Larch Mountain. The trees on the back side are so tightly grown together and none seem to hang over the road.

I am sure there are bus stops out on Lusted Road, but I couldn't recognize any. School was in session, so there weren't any buses out, but the school zones were enforceable. (7a-5pm 20mph I believe). Coming back onto 302nd, it is at the edge of a school zone, but turning right quickly throws you out of it. 302nd has a few long downhills so I am sure JH could have went a lot faster than I did.

 

[AvalonBlue]

I think it might have been posted but thank you for sharing it.

It really speaks to the heart of the matter doesn't it? While we can get very specific about details and timelines and motivations, at the end of the day, this wonderful, loving family lost their daughter, sister, wife.

Life has changed for them forever because of the heinous act of another but they still have their faith in humanity intact. It is so heartwarming to know they havent been robbed of that also. It really speaks to why Whitney was so special to so many when we see the family that she came from and the character being displayed now under such a hard time.

The "Thanks" button just wasn't enough, Glow.

You said this SO beautifully.

raying:

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Sasquatch, thank you so much for driving that route...I was hoping that you might, but not wanting to put you on the spot and ask you. And for leaving those roses at the pole, thank you even more. We appreciate you, not just for what you add in here, but for who you are as a person.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The thanks button just wasn't enough for this. That was so sweet of you to take flowers out to where Whitney spent her last moments.

If I recall from the timeline proposed previously there was 5 minutes allotted for cleanup of the vehicle, which could have been postponed until Larch mountain, giving Holt 5 more minutes to get to the Shell.

Just curious, did you notice if there were any school bus stops along the route?

Respectfully, I still believe the clean up (after moving the body to the back floor, or temporarily removing it from the car) was done prior to gassing up and prior to the trip up Larch Mountain. Just far too much risk to pull into an attendant-served gas station with a car full of blood, etc. and the window gone. For someone to have been shot at point-blank range 4 times in that front seat...well, not to get too graphic, but the amount of traumatic evidence visible through that open window would have been tremendous, and alarming. (Remember, the description we read about, bad as it was, was what was visible AFTER the clean up.) No way I'd have risked driving into town with an open window and meeting with attendants at more than one gas station without at least a cursory clean up.

There'd be no need to clean up a hopelessly bloody car on the mountain prior to abandoning it at the far end of a well-lit, well-populated, 24-hr-video-surveilled parking lot. He wasn't trying to keep the car from being found, in other words. And he wasn't trying to keep it from having blood evidence for LE in it, as he obviously knew he hadn't cleaned it up thoroughly enough to prevent that finding. (I'm sure he saw the 2' x 3' pool of blood on the floor of the back seat when he pulled the body out.)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

It will be interesting as well to discover if the 8:40 'time of crime' was just something entered as an approximation by LE on the affidavit (which I believe someone mentioned earlier in these threads sometimes happens), or if that came from the ME's office as approximation or definitive time.

 

[caffeinejean]

habitual liar

*advertiser censored* addict

struggling with his faith(?)

gun fascination

theif

 

[Joe Friday]

La Louve- just jumping off your post.

He seems quite immature to me. He was so concerned about their finances, but couldn't seem to keep a job, and yet they had not only 2 laptops, but an iPad, as well.

I know I read that he said he bought at least one of the laptops used, but iPads are pretty pricey even used.

I don't get the impression AH was authoritative, however, she seems to me to be the only responsible adult in the house. So maybe that is why some get that vibe from their relationship.

Maybe JH stole the Ipad and laptops from someone else. He stole Clints phone (which Clint didn't even know it was missing until he went home to check his drawer) so who's to say JH wasn't stealing from others too? The laptops and Ipad could have been stolen and purchased on the black market too for considerably less.

JMO

 

[caffeinejean]

Maybe JH stole the Ipad and laptops from someone else. He stole Clints phone (which Clint didn't even know it was missing until he went home to check his drawer) so who's to say JH wasn't stealing from others too? The laptops and Ipad could have been stolen and purchased on the black market too for considerably less.

JMO

Yep, that iPad thing crossed my mind sometime ago when they confiscated it from his back pack. Was thinking it may be a way of other communication at the time, i.e. emails, texts, mapping, but I don't know enough about iPad's to comment much about them. I guess we know he was a thief at least once.

 

[Joe Friday]

Yep, that iPad thing crossed my mind sometime ago when they confiscated it from his back pack. Was thinking it may be a way of other communication at the time, i.e. emails, texts, mapping, but I don't know enough about iPad's to comment much about them. I guess we know he was a thief at least once.

I was considering if JH was a chronic theft or not when I was writing that post. Most people who steal do so to support a habit which is usually drug related and have a criminal history of theft. These people steal and sell the items as fast as they can to support their habit.

JH on the other hand stole the phone and kept it for himself. We haven't heard of any drug addiction or criminal past history of theft related to JH so who knows if he was out stealing Ipads and computers or not. If he was, he never got caught.

JMO

 

[La Louve]

La Louve- just jumping off your post.

He seems quite immature to me. He was so concerned about their finances, but couldn't seem to keep a job, and yet they had not only 2 laptops, but an iPad, as well.

I know I read that he said he bought at least one of the laptops used, but iPads are pretty pricey even used.

I don't get the impression AH was authoritative, however, she seems to me to be the only responsible adult in the house. So maybe that is why some get that vibe from their relationship.

I agree with this line of thinking about the Holts' relationship. She certainly seems to be the one that had more steady employment. But she also seems like the type of young woman who was giving her marriage her best efforts. Sadly, she reminds me of someone who could be on that tv show "Who the *bleep* Did I Marry?"

Besides the computers and iPad, he was also buying guns. I wonder if the guns were originally purchased to protect his laptop (i.e. *advertiser censored* stash), which I bet he never let out of his sight. Maybe JH at some point had been robbed, or an attempt made and it made him think he needed a gun for protection.

The area of Sandy Blvd. in Parkrose is not the greatest (between Holt's childhood home and the Burger King on Airport Way where he worked at one time). I used to work over there in a former bank turned office building and we continually had our security cameras stolen and even laptops stolen by someone breaking in through a window. The thieves were so brazen.

Anyway, one can run into all sorts of rough characters in that area of Sandy Blvd. Just makes me wonder what JH's childhood was like; looking for reasons why. The *advertiser censored* makes me think that he was self-medicating some interior trauma/pain that he felt he had no other way to heal from.

 

[La Louve]

Respectfully, I still believe the clean up (after moving the body to the back floor, or temporarily removing it from the car) was done prior to gassing up and prior to the trip up Larch Mountain. Just far too much risk to pull into an attendant-served gas station with a car full of blood, etc. and the window gone. For someone to have been shot at point-blank range 4 times in that front seat...well, not to get too graphic, but the amount of traumatic evidence visible through that open window would have been tremendous, and alarming. (Remember, the description we read about, bad as it was, was what was visible AFTER the clean up.) No way I'd have risked driving into town with an open window and meeting with attendants at more than one gas station without at least a cursory clean up.

There'd be no need to clean up a hopelessly bloody car on the mountain prior to abandoning it at the far end of a well-lit, well-populated, 24-hr-video-surveilled parking lot. He wasn't trying to keep the car from being found, in other words. And he wasn't trying to keep it from having blood evidence for LE in it, as he obviously knew he hadn't cleaned it up thoroughly enough to prevent that finding. (I'm sure he saw the 2' x 3' pool of blood on the floor of the back seat when he pulled the body out.)

All good points, PIM. And I agree with you about the state of the car immediately after Whitney's murder. Every time I think about that bloody tooth my heart breaks for her all over again.

I'm just trying to reconcile the times and still fit in the amount of time it took him to drive to the Shell station. Five minutes cleanup may have been enough.

 

[caffeinejean]

I was considering if JH was a chronic theft or not when I was writing that post. Most people who steal do so to support a habit which is usually drug related and have a criminal history of theft. These people steal and sell the items as fast as they can to support their habit.

JH on the other hand stole the phone and kept it for himself. We haven't heard of any drug addiction or criminal past history of theft related to JH so who knows if he was out stealing Ipads and computers or not. If he was, he never got caught.

JMO

Sorry to get off topic JF, just that one thought lead to another. So, I would guess JH would be more "petty theft" like. Maybe just taking things he wanted that he couldn't afford at opportune times, discreetly. JMO

And in thinking about the things that appeared important to him and that he coveted, he had problems giving them up until the last moment. Like the guns and ammo in such places that he could retrieve them once the heat was off? You would think he would have disposed of them that first day for ever and ever.

 

[kodi]

Sorry to get off topic JF, just that one thought lead to another. So, I would guess JH would be more "petty theft" like. Maybe just taking things he wanted that he couldn't afford at opportune times, discreetly. JMO

And in thinking about the things that appeared important to him and that he coveted, he had problems giving them up until the last moment. Like the guns and ammo in such places that he could retrieve them once the heat was off? You would think he would have disposed of them that first day for ever and ever.

BBM

I'm just bouncing off your thoughts here, but I've often thought that perhaps he had intention of going back for WH's cell at some point and time. It would make sense if he was obsessed/stalking her as some have suspected/claimed and it's possible, IMO, that he had full intentions of trying to retrieve her phone at some point to keep it. :furious:

 

[Joe Friday]

BBM

I'm just bouncing off your thoughts here, but I've often thought that perhaps he had intention of going back for WH's cell at some point and time. It would make sense if he was obsessed/stalking her as some have suspected/claimed and it's possible, IMO, that he had full intentions of trying to retrieve her phone at some point to keep it. :furious:

I wonder if JH spent any time looking through Whitney's phone at the pictures, text messages, call logs, ect. before he ditched the phone.

Like you said he might have been planning on retrieving the phone at some point. The phone could have been something to remember Whitney by. What better remembrance than a gallery of pictures on a cell phone.

If JH didn't get caught when he did, he defiantly might have been caught when he turned on the phone to look at the information on Whitney's phone and the phone pinged off a tower some time in the future. LE would have zeroed in on the location and found the missing cell phone in his possession.

JMO

 

[Sasquatch]

Sasquatch, thank you so much for driving that route...I was hoping that you might, but not wanting to put you on the spot and ask you. And for leaving those roses at the pole, thank you even more. We appreciate you, not just for what you add in here, but for who you are as a person.

You are welcome! Thank you for your kind words! I believe there was a rose and prayer placed from each of us there yesterday! You were all there in spirit!

 

[Glow]

Sasquatch that was a really wonderful thing to do. I hope Whitneys family is aware of how many of us care and you left tangible proof of that with your roses

I love the symbolism of the spot you chose. A living thing of beauty placed over the ugliness JH left. Very fitting and comforting.

I also appreciate your posts about the area and the drive. For me, living all the way across the country, you have really helped make it more easy to visualize.

Keep up the terrific posts!:yourock:

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

All good points, PIM. And I agree with you about the state of the car immediately after Whitney's murder. Every time I think about that bloody tooth my heart breaks for her all over again.

Mine, too. There are no words...

I'm just trying to reconcile the times and still fit in the amount of time it took him to drive to the Shell station. Five minutes cleanup may have been enough.

Could have been; Sasquatch's drive really helped.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I am curious why JH told LE that he "threw the cell phone into the lake" -- but after confessing Friday, and even taking LE to the crime scene that night, he didn't say also, "and here's the phone, which I didn't throw into the lake, but instead dropped at the telephone pole." That berm that the telephone pole is on is very, very small (see picture in previous pages), and the cell phone could easily have been pointed out that night while the officer was copying down the numbers on the two strips stapled to the pole. Instead, JH said nothing about the phone. LE returned the next morning to conduct the search -- and found it right there near the pole. In clear sight of anyone who drove onto the turnout. So...

1) why did he get rid of the phone in the first place?
2) if he thought it was evidence that needed to 'disappear' why would he drop it right there at the pole instead of pitching it into the woods across the street?
3) why would he tell LE he "threw it in the lake" when there is no lake even visible at that location anymore?

 

[Xavier]

La Louve- just jumping off your post.

He seems quite immature to me. He was so concerned about their finances, but couldn't seem to keep a job, and yet they had not only 2 laptops, but an iPad, as well.

I know I read that he said he bought at least one of the laptops used, but iPads are pretty pricey even used.

I don't get the impression AH was authoritative, however, she seems to me to be the only responsible adult in the house. So maybe that is why some get that vibe from their relationship.

For someone on a tight budget here are some of Holt's "toys"

- cell phone
- ipod/ipad
- guns/ammo
-motorcycle
- laptops