GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

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I agree I think the plant/pet sitting was arranged between Whitney and Amanda. And I wouldn't be surprised if JH was the one who suggested it in the first place.

I also think it is a huge assumption that before the Holts looked after the Heichels plants etc someone else in the complex served in that role. (e.g. I have lived in my house nearly 20 years and have never once asked my neighbors to plant or pet sit and most of my friends would tell you the same.) On the contrary, I think it was probably someone in Whitney or Clint's family, or possibly one of Whitney's girlfriends/congregants from her previous KH. Then when the Holts moved in (by this time I think JH's obsession was full blown) they needed catsitting and Amanda asked Whitney, since she was new to the complex and she may not have had anyone else to ask. Again, I would not be surprised if JH engineered that from the very beginning.

I think you may have hit on a key point there (bolded). I have a friend who refers to the members of her church as her "church family". I can imagine that whitney probably had that same thing in her life. That would be a select group where there is already a lot of things in common and a lot of built in trust.
 
I agree I think the plant/pet sitting was arranged between Whitney and Amanda. And I wouldn't be surprised if JH was the one who suggested it in the first place.

I also think it is a huge assumption that before the Holts looked after the Heichels plants etc someone else in the complex served in that role. (e.g. I have lived in my house nearly 20 years and have never once asked my neighbors to plant or pet sit and most of my friends would tell you the same.) On the contrary, I think it was probably someone in Whitney or Clint's family, or possibly one of Whitney's girlfriends/congregants from her previous KH. Then when the Holts moved in (by this time I think JH's obsession was full blown) they needed catsitting and Amanda asked Whitney, since she was new to the complex and she may not have had anyone else to ask. Again, I would not be surprised if JH engineered that from the very beginning.

LL thanks, you said everything so well... I'll just bold it again.
Afterall, they moved into the Heichels neighborhood not the other way around. (Glow) I hear horse hoofs. LOL
 
I would have to agree that an assumption is an assumption unless tested. An assumption will not be the one thing that ultimately convicts the person of this crime. But assumptions, as well as profiling, have their place in the process of finding out the facts. Both LE, as well as people on this board, are at different stages of the process. Profiling, as well as assuming things, should be looked at as a working hypothesis, not an end in itself.
We can not be too quick to judge, if others are at different stages or providing different roles of reaching the same goal. If we can not test, or do not have the ability to test our hypothesis, it can always be put to the side until we can obtain more evidence or someone can provide us with it. By encouraging others to look at different theories, even without all the evidence in hand, can actually help find nuggets of information, that would have otherwise gone unnoticed. <snipped for space>

Sasquatch, great post. Detective work does seem similar to science in many ways. I completely agree that brainstorming for various hypotheses is a helpful thing when considering a case, for professionals or armchair sleuths. To me, that's different than building on assumptions we might find ourselves unknowingly bringing to a case which might stifle or even halt the brainstorming process in some areas (eg. 'he confessed so he must've done it'). Assumptions are okay in and of themselves...they're part of thinking processes, and aren't harmful as long as we recognize them for what they are. Because, IMO, they can't form a solid foundation for a thorough criminal investigation, so you can't have them at the basis of a working theory. A case is only as strong as the foundation on which it's built, in other words.
 
Couldn't help but laugh when I saw this headline: Horse and Zebra Escape From Petting Zoo

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/horse-zebra-escape-petting-zoo-215608494.html

lol

Too funny! Is it the beautiful full moon tonight or what? Oh, if only one name had been changed:
Horse and zebra escape from petting zoo
The equine version of "Bonnie and Clyde" hoofed it down Victory Boulevard in the Travis neighborhood, where they were filmed Wednesday morning by Razor Occam.

The witness watched the bizarre event unfold, first spotting the odd couple out the window of his store at 9:20 a.m. He ran outside with his phone to get a picture. He told Yahoo News on the phone, "The pony was leading the zebra. Everywhere the pony would turn, the zebra would follow."
Occam was amazed at the sight, saying, "I couldn't figure out what it was&#8212;a zebra. A horse maybe, but a zebra? Where did the zebra come from?" He added that he only learned later from reporters that a petting zoo was nearby.

Thank you for a great laugh.
 
So, I wanted to present this as my thought process of what could have happened:

JH approaches WH at 6:45 am stating that his motorcycle isn't running and asking for a ride. Against her better judgement, she complies. Once in the vehicle, he starts making comments that make her visibly uncomfortable. He realizes she isn't going to easily comply with his desires so pulls out the gun to force the situation in his favor.

After the sexual component of the crime has been committed, she is uncontrollably upset. He repeatedly tells her to shut-up. When she doesn't he shoots her in the chest out of frustration. He expects it to immediately become quiet. When it doesn't he steps out of the vehicle to gather his thoughts and wait for her to die.

It isn't a fatal shot. She is able to lock the doors. Now his frustration is amped up even higher. He shoots through the window in anger and as a way to get in. Once the door is open, in absolute fury that she has messed up everything he planned, he shoots her two more times.

In this state of mind, the erratic behavior after the crime fits for me.
Obviously MOO

Good scenario. I agree, something made Holt get out of the SUV.

Maybe that Dodge/Roslyn area with real high grassy fields, flanked by deep woods and no longer a popular area for people to hang out with the No Trespass signage around could've been Holt's first choice to do the rape/crime, then hide Whit and her car in the woods/fields. And then Holt could walk home thru the fields unnoticed to get back to town.

I always wondered why would Holt go thru so much more effort, alot more time to drive to the mountains to do this crime when this very area would've sufficed?

Maybe Holt wanted Dodge/Roslyn to be his first choice and got out of the car, asked WH to follow him to the woods. She then locks the SUV, starts caling 911. Holt freaks out, shoots her thru the window, then hysterically frantic hops in the car and shoots her 3 more times.

I think the excessive brutal shooting was sheer rage for WH blowing up his grand plan. Holt did'nt want it to get this crazy and wild, he expected WH to submit to him, make it all smoothe and easy to satisfy his obsessions. Holt likely had high expectations everything would go like clockwork, in his total control. He probably thought WH would be thee woman to calm all the anxieties of his life gone wrong. Holt's now thinking nothing can go right for him. Everything gets screwed up and he's now in a manic/rage mindset.

Having blown his cover, passersby might've heard the gunshots, he takes off without a real gameplan of what to do next. He wants out of Dodge.

He's not thinking straight, then foolishly heads home for gas, because originally he planned to ditch WH/SUV at Dodge/Roslyn all along, but now needs another exit strategy. So he drives to town for gas, then to the mountains to hide WH.
 
Well what I originally thought I meant was the pictures that Clint had on the phone before he put it in the dresser in his home. But now I have a different thought, or rather an additional one . What if when JH stole the phone, he enjoyed looking at the pictures already on it. If he was attracted to Whitney, that would be a heady and powerful feeling to be walking around with images of "her" in "his" possession. My original thought was that he took the phone because it was an iPhone and an upgrade from his own. But maybe he took the phone because he wanted what the phone contained (pictures). This lead to an even more depressing thought....what if he pulled his phone out of wherever he had stashed it during the ride to the lake to take a picture during the sex act? What if it was that moment that Whitney grabbed the phone prompting him to wrest it away from her and throw it?

One of the good things about all the comments from everyone here is we get to look at different scenarios!

Agreed, there! But then&#8230;I still don&#8217;t personally think he&#8217;d have chucked it if those pictures were so important to him (whichever ones we&#8217;re talking about). I mean, no one knew he had it, it wasn't on with GPS tracking at the time, and it didn&#8217;t tie him to the case&#8212;that is, not until he tossed it out the window at a crime scene for no obvious reason.

By the way, if JH was using his own SIM card in a stolen phone, would he still have had Clint's old pictures of Whitney in the phone that day, or would they have remained on an old SIM card of Clint's (either removed by Clint or JH prior to JH's SIM card being put in)? Just a thought that occurred to me...

Do you think there was someone else in the car?

I&#8217;m entertaining the theory and can't seem to rule it out, yet. Just lots of little things about the case suggest that possibility to me, including the two guns. Won't go into all of those details, but will also admit that part of what fueled my brainstorming that direction is the persistant nagging feeling that Holt doesn&#8217;t seem remotely the type who would have the cold-blooded nerve it takes to shoot Whitney four times at point blank range in the face and chest--and then coolly and methodically keep moving the next three hours cleaning up, gassing up, depositing her body and license plate, and then dropping off the car at Walmart. He seems more the type who'd have a panic attack or go into a fugue if he shot someone like that. He seems psychologically fragile, anxious, completely avoidant, and not at all confrontational. The pdf gave me the impression he was rambling and distraught that Tuesday and also Wednesday at the police station, almost like someone with post traumatic stress syndrome&#8230;more like someone who'd witnessed a cold blooded murder than someone who&#8217;d just committed it. In fact, to me, just based on the evidence we&#8217;ve heard about so far, the murder looks more like an execution than a sex crime kill. But again, there&#8217;s much we haven&#8217;t heard yet (eg. evidence of sexual assault); my thoughts may change when more facts come out in court.

Maybe I need to go back and read the pdf again unless anyone here knows the answer, just because he had two guns do we know for a fact they were both used in the murder?

One more, did we ever find out whether he gave his DNA or LE "obtained" it some other way, off a soda can or some such? &#8230;.

The impression I got was that both guns were involved since JH was observed hiding two guns (in the bushes and grass at work and at the police station)&#8212;and both were retrieved by LE and sent to the evidence room. I&#8217;m pretty sure we won&#8217;t know any more than that, though, until the trial.

As far as the DNA and fingerprints&#8230;I can&#8217;t find where it references that specifically in the PDF (if it does), but here are the few articles I could find:

&#8220;Holt volunteered to be interviewed&#8221; &#8211; Junginger
http://santamariatimes.com/news/nat...cle_41457135-8317-5c7c-abde-c814196be621.html

Holt first came to their attention Wednesday, when he volunteered to be interviewed, Junginger said, and two interviews revealed inconsistencies in his statements. He submitted to fingerprint and DNA analysis, and that helped tie him to the SUV, the chief said.
It was not immediately clear if Holt had obtained a lawyer. He remained held without bail at the Multnomah County Detention Center.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/missing-woman-whitney-heichel-jonathan-holt_n_1992218.html

Detectives first received information on Wednesday that led them to Holt regarding Heichel&#8217;s disappearance. He voluntarily came to the police station for an interview, and detectives learned he was an acquaintance of Heichel and her husband.
It was also revealed he lived in the same apartment complex as the couple.
After the interview, Holt was free to go.
Police found evidence in a Wal-Mart dumpster near where Heichel&#8217;s SUV was found, and they later found clues including a license plate on Larch Mountain near where her body was later found. This led detectives to conduct a second interview with Holt, which they said had many inconsistencies from his first interview.
During the second interview, detectives took fingerprints and DNA from Holt.
http://www.nwcn.com/home/175105471.html

&#8220;Police obtained DNA and fingerprints from Holt after a second voluntary interview where they noticed many inconsistencies from his first interview. He then came in to the police department for an additional interview Friday and was arrested. At about that same time, detectives at Larch Mountain located Heichel's body. Police did not specify a motive for the murder.&#8221;
www.ktvb.com/news/regional/175239261.html

It&#8217;d my guess, if he &#8220;submitted to fingerprint tests&#8221; that would signal awareness of the process, and be different than if that DNA was obtained surreptitiously. But we may not know for sure until trial.


Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
Well, unfortunately, my logic doesn&#8217;t jive with yours. I&#8217;m stuck on the lack of evidence to support that first statement, in fact. How do you know JH &#8216;wanted&#8217; Clint&#8217;s old cell phone? (Unreliable testimony by someone who keeps changing his story during interrogation isn&#8217;t conclusive evidence.) Same problem with the last statement; unreliable testimony=unreliable confession.

Because he took it?

How do you know he took it? :)

I am not sure we can say he "kept changing his story. What was reported was that there were discrepancies between the two interviews, do I have that right? I am asking because I dont want our wording to cause or give the impression that something is more than it actually is. All liars have to have good memories since they are basically inventing a "script" and will have to refer back to that "script" to keep their story straight. I thought that was what got LE's attention. His discrepancies got noticed but that is different than the bulk of his story changing. I think he told a lot of factual stuff to LE actually.

What I get from reading the PDF is that he first had discrepancies on day 2 (in slight details about what the robbers said to him, etc.), but then had big changes in his story on day 3. Not only that, but he had the weird evidence drops just prior to his 3rd interview. To me it seemed like a guy who was told to tell a basic story, but when pressed for details, didn&#8217;t quite know where to go with the embellishments and details they pressed him for. In other words, he wasn&#8217;t a very good or experienced liar. Then all of a sudden he&#8217;s dropping evidence in unbelievably obvious places Friday morning right before Day 3&#8217;s interview. He does that weird thing with throwing up his hands at the police station doorstep, and then goes in and just offers up the story about stealing Clint&#8217;s cell phone, and confessing to a whole different story about that Tuesday. There&#8217;s nothing &#8216;natural&#8217; about it to me&#8212;he seems almost like he&#8217;s following some weird script that keeps changing on him. Just an impression, JMO.


quote from link:
Heichel said the Holts had watered their bonsai trees and the Heichels watched the Holts&#8217; cats while each other were out of town in the past
(no mention of the word "often")


I&#8217;m sorry! I had the quote but an incorrect link written under it; here&#8217;s the correct link:

www.nwcn.com/home/175654421.html

On "Good Morning America" Monday, Whitney's husband Clint Heichel said Holt was married and the couples knew each other. The Heichels would often plant- and cat-sit for the Holts, Clint said, and two weeks ago he helped Holt jump-start his motorcycle.


(Did anyone on here ever find a transcript of that interview? I remember another poster asking about if there was one.)
 
I agree I think the plant/pet sitting was arranged between Whitney and Amanda. And I wouldn't be surprised if JH was the one who suggested it in the first place.

I also think it is a huge assumption that before the Holts looked after the Heichels plants etc someone else in the complex served in that role. (e.g. I have lived in my house nearly 20 years and have never once asked my neighbors to plant or pet sit and most of my friends would tell you the same.) On the contrary, I think it was probably someone in Whitney or Clint's family, or possibly one of Whitney's girlfriends/congregants from her previous KH. Then when the Holts moved in (by this time I think JH's obsession was full blown) they needed catsitting and Amanda asked Whitney, since she was new to the complex and she may not have had anyone else to ask. Again, I would not be surprised if JH engineered that from the very beginning.

It varies between my husband and me who arranges for stuff like that when we go out of town; but usually if he does it, it's b/c he's asking a guy friend he's close to--and if I do it, it's b/c I'm asking a gal friend I know well.

It probably does sound like an assumption except that I'm going on media accounts about how commonly it was done by those in their cong--to look out for each other at the apartment complex even if they didn't know each other well, b/c they were still 'family.' I'll see if I can still find one about that. (Otherwise, I'm with you--I'd prefer family, or friends who were like family.)
 
PIM--- I hate to see you wrack your brain. you've alot of intriguing possibilities and many or a few could prove correct.

Then again, maybe we need to come to grip with the fact Holt was no pro at crime and until the trial, his behavior, crime conduct will always keep us scratching our heads..LOL

Xavier, I'm sorry--I almost missed this! (My scrolling jumps around a lot on this site.) I do believe we will be scratching our heads until the trial. But not wracking our brains, maybe. Just exercising them! (Thanks for those thoughts, and yes, I'd agree Holt seems to be no pro at crime.)
 



PIM--- I too have thought about the moment that triggered this execution ( hate to use that word, not trying to sound insensitive, but it really was execution style IMO)

I wondered why did Holt leave the SUV? Did he want WH to get out, follow him to the woods? Or did WH use a ploy like the tires seem flat, get out and check the tires, then locked the doors....Or OK, let's go have sex, but the woods are better, more room....I'm just guessing here..

Whatever happened, until Holt tells us exactly the scenario of the shooting, I believe Holt was locked out, and being locked out of the SUV, really agitated him, it set in motion he longer had control, WH possibly could call 911, then all hell would break out. Shooting her 4 times, with total indifference to shooting her face/chest means to me, Holt was really messed up, angry WH "created " this whole crime to go wrong.

I think a lot of us are wondering what happened in those final moments. After reading the 44 page document a few times, it is still tough to sort out how all of the evidence fits into the timeline and how these events occurred.

Here are a few thoughts that I have about the evidence in my working theory:
**Warning Some Parts Are GRAPHIC** This is only a working theory and none of the photos are from this case, only Examples.

First of all, I do not believe the sodomy and murder happened in the front seat. The center console in the front seat of a 1999 Explorer is a permanent fixture and restricts movement between the two seats (unlike the Ford Ranger where the middle console can be flipped up)

sample photo from a different 1999 Ford Explorer:
http://www.rodenmotors.com/images/1999_ford_explorer_004.JPG

From the evidence in the 44 page document, it leads me to believe that JH was in the back seat (driver side) and at one point had the back of his head against the rear passenger side window. The document states a smudge was on the rear seat, driver's side window, located middle of the top portion. This could occur with skin contact from a person with a military style haircut, because some of the back of the head skin is partially exposed. With a longer haired person, it would unlikely to leave the smudge from the back of the head. Touch DNA analysis might show who's skin print this was on the window.

I also believe JH was right handed. In his wedding photos he appears to be right handed (banquet serving hand, jacket hand..etc), and with this theory, he fired his weapon with his dominant right hand from the back seat. Gun powder residue analysis, hair analysis, body fluid analysis (JH & WH clothing/backpack/seats) and skin cell DNA analysis can help determine what went on in the back seat and possibly what interaction happened between the victim and the accused. In the 44 page document JH tells LE that he had been in the back seat during service for the church a month before. JH definitely tried to stress the point that he had been in WH's backseat. We do not have a confirmation that they did church service using WH's SUV before. AH only stated that she did not go out of her way to talk to WH on a daily basis. The only evidence that we have of shared service is the sound department document paper, and even that is unclear. Meetings for the church were Sunday and Tuesday nights, so it could be possible that the sound department could have already taken place on the previous Sunday. What is known is that JH's DNA was found on the steering wheel of WH's SUV.

With JH sitting with his head against the window (rear seat, driver side with back rest in upright position) and WH in the middle back seat area, she was either starting to stand up or possibly reaching for her phone as a last ditch effort when it rang at 10:39am (either reaching inside the mid console, or inside her purse possibly in the front seat).. that is when JH shot her in the head twice and then the chest as she fell down in the back seat area.

By the blood pattern described, there was a high impact spatter to the front windshield and skull fragments and blood on the front seat area. This indicates that the high impact (rear of the head exit wound) was in the diagonal direction of the front passenger seat window, (the bullet and bone fragments )possibly shattering the glass. Blood on the rear driver side door could be possible front spatter. In this theory, the first two shots were from the drivers side/rear seat diagonal (aiming toward the passenger side window). If the red spots on the hood, stated on the report, are blood spots, then the Explorer was most likely facing East. If the results from the headshot (bone and FMJ bullet) broke the glass, then the reported 5mph winds(up to 20mph gusts) from the West could have caused the over-spray on the hood. The SUV hood gets hot and the blood dries quickly on the hood, with some deformation in blood spots due to the wind.

An illustration of front spatter example:

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/images/BackSpatter03.gif

A link to blood stain analysis:

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/Blood_Stains.html

Sample angle shot from a different 1999 Ford Explorer:
http://www.rodenmotors.com/images/1999_ford_explorer_012.JPG

The exit wound is not the only place evidence can occur, a couple of things also happen to the entrance wound. When a bullet is fired at close range, it does two things. First off, the gases from the gun cause blood to come out of the front entrance of the bullet wound, causing front spatter. Secondly, when someone is shot at close range the cooler gases in the gun can suck blood into the barrel, thus leaving internal muzzle staining. This is another way LE might be able to tie one of the two weapons to the murder scene.

From an article:
"If a gunshot occurred at close range, the victim might have stippling, or burns on his skin from gunpowder. Shots fired at very close range can also cause internal muzzle staining. When this happens, the victim's blood is sucked back into the gun's muzzle by the cooling of the explosive gases that are released when a short is fired. Testing the gun's muzzle for blood can provide an additional clue to solve a case."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/bloodstain-pattern-analysis2.htm

The shell casings say S&B 9x19 in the report. JH admitted to buying two packs of 9mm shells from the NW Armory in Oregon. The S&B packs for that price were most likely S&B 9mm which have 115 grain powder and possibly full metal jackets(FMJ is an assumption, LE didn't release the writing on the boxes found in the dumpster). Full metal jackets are known for going through objects and not mushrooming like other ammo. Most self defense bullets and hunting bullets, often use a bullet that mushrooms inside of the target for stopping power. 9mm handguns are known for little recoil, and seem to be marketed as using the double tap because it doesn't kick back as much, taking less time to reengage the target and shoot the next round.

There are two 9mm handguns as evidence in the 44 page report. One is identified as a Smith and Wesson 9mm compact weapon. JH admitted to buying 9mm shells from the NW Armory for 10 dollars a bulk pack. In doing research, some people have had problems with the S&W compact 9mm ejecting spent casings back into their face with powder loads below 124 grain. The S&B shells were most likely 115 grain and not higher than 124 grain at that low of a price. So it is possible that JH had hot brass casings being ejected into his face or that direction. But like the glass from the broken window, the door gets opened and shut and the crime scene gets shuffled around. The glass fell on the outside and inside of the vehicle and the shell casings probably rolled around.

Video on 9mm casing ejection problems:
http://youtu.be/_2uVciX1neY

After the shooting, JH then proceeds to wipe himself off of possible back spatter doing a quick wipe down of the front seat. He drags WH's body out, folds the seats down, leaving blood and hair evidence on the back seats and floor, and creates a barrier with the back storage rugs/floor mats. Then he wraps WH's body in linen sheets and places her on top of the fold down seats. Covering her with more linens. Further DNA evidence from the bloody linens and WH's body could connect JH to the crime scene as well. JH throws the phone onto the berm, trying to get rid of any connection to WH & CH, knowing that it could link him to them, if it is found in his backpack. If the stolen phone was found, it could be traced back to CH with the serial number.

I believe JH had the ability to do the cleanup after this act because of his EMT training. If the EMT course was at MHCC, the classes are 5 months in length (couple hours on Mon & Wed nights). At first I thought it only involved coursework to become and EMT. But in Oregon, to get certified as a basic EMT, the person has to work in the line of duty (under supervision) as an EMT for 8 hours, then work 8 hours in a hospital emergency room to be certified. This on the job training, is 16 hours of likely exposure to bloody incidents and bodily fluid cleanup. Exposure, that the average person does not experience outside of the LE and medical field.

JH's acts of spreading out evidence, shows to me that he has done criminal acts before. Taking off a license plate, could mean that he has stolen cars before and knows how to temporarily evade getting spotted. The Larch Mtn.area, is also known as a place where people dump stolen cars. Putting evidence in the woods and in bushes, on easily remembered side streets means that he could retrieve them later. He already systematically spent his time hiding Child *advertiser censored* from his wife. Hiding things seemed to be ingrained in JH's life. His acts of scattering all of the evidence does not surprise me. In July of 2011, JH had shown a lack of empathy toward his friend and his wife when he stole his friend's rental car and disappeared.

This scenario is only a theory. LE and the Prosecutors have the evidence that led them to change their working theory, into an JH's arrest. They obviously have a lot more evidence than is in the 44 page document that they released. We will probably have to wait until the trial to find out more.
 
Sasquatch, great post. Detective work does seem similar to science in many ways. I completely agree that brainstorming for various hypotheses is a helpful thing when considering a case, for professionals or armchair sleuths. To me, that's different than building on assumptions we might find ourselves unknowingly bringing to a case which might stifle or even halt the brainstorming process in some areas (eg. 'he confessed so he must've done it'). Assumptions are okay in and of themselves...they're part of thinking processes, and aren't harmful as long as we recognize them for what they are. Because, IMO, they can't form a solid foundation for a thorough criminal investigation, so you can't have them at the basis of a working theory. A case is only as strong as the foundation on which it's built, in other words.

Thank You! Yes, there is still a lot of evidence we need, to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
 
Kodi I'm so sorry to hear this!! I feel your pain, having broken a leg once and a knee once. Unsolicited advice... take good care of yourself, and don't push yourself til you're really healed and ready. I hope you're not in too much pain, and getting lots of help while you're healing.

Thanks so much, nikb! I'm lucky in it was a pretty easy break and didn't realize it was broken; I walked around on it for the first 24 hours and even drove myself to urgent care. The doctor was amazed I said the pain was tolerable. *chuckles* No surgery, not even a cast, just a knee immobolizer since I broke the fibula just below the knee. I'm already able to gingerly walk on it again, I just have to be careful not to overdue it. That's the last time I roll down a dune and get tangled up with my ATV. :what:

KODI Sorry to hear about you broken leg....get on the mend...thanks for your insight

Just for laughs sake, why not paint your leg cast like a candy cane for christmas...LOL
Happy Holiday to All

Now that would be one hilarious cast! I wonder if they've ever done one like that?? Thanks for the well wishes. :seeya:

<respectfully snipped>
By the way, if JH was using his own SIM card in a stolen phone, would he still have had Clint's old pictures of Whitney in the phone that day, or would they have remained on an old SIM card of Clint's (either removed by Clint or JH prior to JH's SIM card being put in)? Just a thought that occurred to me...


I'm not familar with iPhones, PIM, but I have a Droid and there are two possible scenarios that come to mind that could explain how JH could have pictures of Whitney (assuming my Droid is similar to the iPhone in this regard). First, there is a lot of memory on the phone itself and because of this, files can be stored within the phone memory or on the SIM card depending on where the user chooses to store it. If there were photos on the phone itself, they would still be there unless removed by Clint at the time he quit using the phone.

Secondly, if Clint's SIM card was still in his old phone, and again assuming it works much like my Droid, JH could have removed the pictures from the old SIM card and added them to his SIM card that he inserted when he began using the phone as his own. He could use a computer to "drag and drop" said pictures between any number of files. :)
 
I think a lot of us are wondering what happened in those final moments. After reading the 44 page document a few times, it is still tough to sort out how all of the evidence fits into the timeline and how these events occurred.

Here are a few thoughts that I have about the evidence in my working theory:
**Warning Some Parts Are GRAPHIC** This is only a working theory and none of the photos are from this case, only Examples.

First of all, I do not believe the sodomy and murder happened in the front seat. The center console in the front seat of a 1999 Explorer is a permanent fixture and restricts movement between the two seats (unlike the Ford Ranger where the middle console can be flipped up)

sample photo from a different 1999 Ford Explorer:
http://www.rodenmotors.com/images/1999_ford_explorer_004.JPG

From the evidence in the 44 page document, it leads me to believe that JH was in the back seat (driver side) and at one point had the back of his head against the rear passenger side window. The document states a smudge was on the rear seat, driver's side window, located middle of the top portion. This could occur with skin contact from a person with a military style haircut, because some of the back of the head skin is partially exposed. With a longer haired person, it would unlikely to leave the smudge from the back of the head. Touch DNA analysis might show who's skin print this was on the window.

I also believe JH was right handed. In his wedding photos he appears to be right handed (banquet serving hand, jacket hand..etc), and with this theory, he fired his weapon with his dominant right hand from the back seat. Gun powder residue analysis, hair analysis, body fluid analysis (JH & WH clothing/backpack/seats) and skin cell DNA analysis can help determine what went on in the back seat and possibly what interaction happened between the victim and the accused. In the 44 page document JH tells LE that he had been in the back seat during service for the church a month before. JH definitely tried to stress the point that he had been in WH's backseat. We do not have a confirmation that they did church service using WH's SUV before. AH only stated that she did not go out of her way to talk to WH on a daily basis. The only evidence that we have of shared service is the sound department document paper, and even that is unclear. Meetings for the church were Sunday and Tuesday nights, so it could be possible that the sound department could have already taken place on the previous Sunday. What is known is that JH's DNA was found on the steering wheel of WH's SUV.

With JH sitting with his head against the window (rear seat, driver side with back rest in upright position) and WH in the middle back seat area, she was either starting to stand up or possibly reaching for her phone as a last ditch effort when it rang at 10:39am (either reaching inside the mid console, or inside her purse possibly in the front seat).. that is when JH shot her in the head twice and then the chest as she fell down in the back seat area.

By the blood pattern described, there was a high impact spatter to the front windshield and skull fragments and blood on the front seat area. This indicates that the high impact (rear of the head exit wound) was in the diagonal direction of the front passenger seat window, (the bullet and bone fragments )possibly shattering the glass. Blood on the rear driver side door could be possible front spatter. In this theory, the first two shots were from the drivers side/rear seat diagonal (aiming toward the passenger side window). If the red spots on the hood, stated on the report, are blood spots, then the Explorer was most likely facing East. If the results from the headshot (bone and FMJ bullet) broke the glass, then the reported 5mph winds(up to 20mph gusts) from the West could have caused the over-spray on the hood. The SUV hood gets hot and the blood dries quickly on the hood, with some deformation in blood spots due to the wind.

An illustration of front spatter example:

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/images/BackSpatter03.gif

A link to blood stain analysis:

http://www.crimescene-forensics.com/Blood_Stains.html

Sample angle shot from a different 1999 Ford Explorer:
http://www.rodenmotors.com/images/1999_ford_explorer_012.JPG

The exit wound is not the only place evidence can occur, a couple of things also happen to the entrance wound. When a bullet is fired at close range, it does two things. First off, the gases from the gun cause blood to come out of the front entrance of the bullet wound, causing front spatter. Secondly, when someone is shot at close range the cooler gases in the gun can suck blood into the barrel, thus leaving internal muzzle staining. This is another way LE might be able to tie one of the two weapons to the murder scene.

From an article:
"If a gunshot occurred at close range, the victim might have stippling, or burns on his skin from gunpowder. Shots fired at very close range can also cause internal muzzle staining. When this happens, the victim's blood is sucked back into the gun's muzzle by the cooling of the explosive gases that are released when a short is fired. Testing the gun's muzzle for blood can provide an additional clue to solve a case."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/bloodstain-pattern-analysis2.htm

The shell casings say S&B 9x19 in the report. JH admitted to buying two packs of 9mm shells from the NW Armory in Oregon. The S&B packs for that price were most likely S&B 9mm which have 115 grain powder and possibly full metal jackets(FMJ is an assumption, LE didn't release the writing on the boxes found in the dumpster). Full metal jackets are known for going through objects and not mushrooming like other ammo. Most self defense bullets and hunting bullets, often use a bullet that mushrooms inside of the target for stopping power. 9mm handguns are known for little recoil, and seem to be marketed as using the double tap because it doesn't kick back as much, taking less time to reengage the target and shoot the next round.

There are two 9mm handguns as evidence in the 44 page report. One is identified as a Smith and Wesson 9mm compact weapon. JH admitted to buying 9mm shells from the NW Armory for 10 dollars a bulk pack. In doing research, some people have had problems with the S&W compact 9mm ejecting spent casings back into their face with powder loads below 124 grain. The S&B shells were most likely 115 grain and not higher than 124 grain at that low of a price. So it is possible that JH had hot brass casings being ejected into his face or that direction. But like the glass from the broken window, the door gets opened and shut and the crime scene gets shuffled around. The glass fell on the outside and inside of the vehicle and the shell casings probably rolled around.

Video on 9mm casing ejection problems:
http://youtu.be/_2uVciX1neY

After the shooting, JH then proceeds to wipe himself off of possible back spatter doing a quick wipe down of the front seat. He drags WH's body out, folds the seats down, leaving blood and hair evidence on the back seats and floor, and creates a barrier with the back storage rugs/floor mats. Then he wraps WH's body in linen sheets and places her on top of the fold down seats. Covering her with more linens. Further DNA evidence from the bloody linens and WH's body could connect JH to the crime scene as well. JH throws the phone onto the berm, trying to get rid of any connection to WH & CH, knowing that it could link him to them, if it is found in his backpack. If the stolen phone was found, it could be traced back to CH with the serial number.

I believe JH had the ability to do the cleanup after this act because of his EMT training. If the EMT course was at MHCC, the classes are 5 months in length (couple hours on Mon & Wed nights). At first I thought it only involved coursework to become and EMT. But in Oregon, to get certified as a basic EMT, the person has to work in the line of duty (under supervision) as an EMT for 8 hours, then work 8 hours in a hospital emergency room to be certified. This on the job training, is 16 hours of likely exposure to bloody incidents and bodily fluid cleanup. Exposure, that the average person does not experience outside of the LE and medical field.

JH's acts of spreading out evidence, shows to me that he has done criminal acts before. Taking off a license plate, could mean that he has stolen cars before and knows how to temporarily evade getting spotted. The Larch Mtn.area, is also known as a place where people dump stolen cars. Putting evidence in the woods and in bushes, on easily remembered side streets means that he could retrieve them later. He already systematically spent his time hiding Child *advertiser censored* from his wife. Hiding things seemed to be ingrained in JH's life. His acts of scattering all of the evidence does not surprise me. In July of 2011, JH had shown a lack of empathy toward his friend and his wife when he stole his friend's rental car and disappeared.

This scenario is only a theory. LE and the Prosecutors have the evidence that led them to change their working theory, into an JH's arrest. They obviously have a lot more evidence than is in the 44 page document that they released. We will probably have to wait until the trial to find out more.

A most excellent theory and post, very thought provoking!

When you mention the right or left hand dexterity, this is something that has puzzled me every time I think about it (I had it underlined in red in my copy of the affidavit). In the affidavit during the 2nd JH interview, JH said the robber pointed a gun at him with his right hand but JH indicated how it was done while pointing with his left hand. I guess I always wondered if this observation by LE was significant to the case and therefore put to the page (page 21 paragraph 4)

I was told Joyce Nagy asked Jonathan what kind of gun the man had stuck in his face, she said "a revolver?" He then said "no" and indicated it wasn't a revolver, it was "whatever the other kind is called." He could see that the man had his finger on the trigger, and he told them the man used his right hand to point the gun at him (but indicated a pointing motion with his left hand).
 
I’m entertaining the theory and can't seem to rule it out, yet. Just lots of little things about the case suggest that possibility to me, including the two guns. Won't go into all of those details,

Well that is fair enough I guess but there isnt enough in your comment for me to form either an agreement or a counter argument or to glean info from. Describing JH as being one way or another is pretty much moot and highly subjective. You may be right in your assessment or not, I have no way of knowing and due to limited information, theres really nothing for me to comment on that I can see.

The impression I got was that both guns were involved since JH was observed hiding two guns (in the bushes and grass at work and at the police station)—and both were retrieved by LE and sent to the evidence room. I’m pretty sure we won’t know any more than that, though, until the trial.

As far as the DNA and fingerprints…I can’t find where it references that specifically in the PDF (if it does), but here are the few articles I could find:

“Holt volunteered to be interviewed” – Junginger
http://santamariatimes.com/news/nat...cle_41457135-8317-5c7c-abde-c814196be621.html

Holt first came to their attention Wednesday, when he volunteered to be interviewed, Junginger said, and two interviews revealed inconsistencies in his statements. He submitted to fingerprint and DNA analysis, and that helped tie him to the SUV, the chief said.
It was not immediately clear if Holt had obtained a lawyer. He remained held without bail at the Multnomah County Detention Center.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/20/missing-woman-whitney-heichel-jonathan-holt_n_1992218.html

Detectives first received information on Wednesday that led them to Holt regarding Heichel’s disappearance. He voluntarily came to the police station for an interview, and detectives learned he was an acquaintance of Heichel and her husband.
It was also revealed he lived in the same apartment complex as the couple.
After the interview, Holt was free to go.
Police found evidence in a Wal-Mart dumpster near where Heichel’s SUV was found, and they later found clues including a license plate on Larch Mountain near where her body was later found. This led detectives to conduct a second interview with Holt, which they said had many inconsistencies from his first interview.
During the second interview, detectives took fingerprints and DNA from Holt.
http://www.nwcn.com/home/175105471.html

“Police obtained DNA and fingerprints from Holt after a second voluntary interview where they noticed many inconsistencies from his first interview. He then came in to the police department for an additional interview Friday and was arrested. At about that same time, detectives at Larch Mountain located Heichel's body. Police did not specify a motive for the murder.”
www.ktvb.com/news/regional/175239261.html

It’d my guess, if he “submitted to fingerprint tests” that would signal awareness of the process, and be different than if that DNA was obtained surreptitiously. But we may not know for sure until trial.

Thanks for the links and the info. I wouldnt be surprised if only one gun was used, even though I know he was hauling them both around with him. I am leaning at this point toward believing that he never intended to really use either gun.


How do you know he took it? :)

1) When LE asked Clint to look for his phone, he found it missing. How would LE know to tell Clint that? Because JH told them he took it.

2) JH confessed to taking the phone. And yes, even if there were some discrepancies in his story, that doesnt mean the whole confession is valueless. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

3) The phone turned up where JH said he threw it.

What I get from reading the PDF is that he first had discrepancies on day 2 (in slight details about what the robbers said to him, etc.), but then had big changes in his story on day 3. Not only that, but he had the weird evidence drops just prior to his 3rd interview. To me it seemed like a guy who was told to tell a basic story, but when pressed for details, didn’t quite know where to go with the embellishments and details they pressed him for. In other words, he wasn’t a very good or experienced liar. Then all of a sudden he’s dropping evidence in unbelievably obvious places Friday morning right before Day 3’s interview. He does that weird thing with throwing up his hands at the police station doorstep, and then goes in and just offers up the story about stealing Clint’s cell phone, and confessing to a whole different story about that Tuesday. There’s nothing ‘natural’ about it to me—he seems almost like he’s following some weird script that keeps changing on him. Just an impression, JMO.

Well thats what we are all doing, trying to figure this case out. I dont see any of that at all but then you know that.:waitasec:

I’m sorry! I had the quote but an incorrect link written under it; here’s the correct link:




(Did anyone on here ever find a transcript of that interview? I remember another poster asking about if there was one.)

Yes, I found the transcript just now. I went looking for it because that word "often" didnt seem to fit with the facts as we know them.

Here is the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/whitney-heichels-husband-interview-difficult-17532855

when you watch the video it is an interview interspersed with voice overs from the reporter. You dont hear Clint say directly that they watered the plants and cared for the Holts cat. What you hear is the reporter say that.

The reporter says:
He and Whitney took care of the Holts plants and cat when they were away.

That sentence starts at 1:02 in the video.

The transcript is underneath the video. It contains gross misspellings and word usage. The reporters voice is clearer than the transcript. At no time is the word "often" used however.

That word "often" doesnt pop up until the link you gave in your post which was from NWCN.com posted on October 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM. It is written by KGW Staff. That is apparently where the word "often" got inserted.

It didnt come from Clint Heichel.
 
BBM This really rings true for me, depressing as it is to consider. How else would he get pictures of Whitney unless he took some surreptitiously (along the lines of the "peeping" incident with the former neighbor). I think with his *advertiser censored* addiction he might want to have photographs he could manipulate digitally, creating his own fantasy *advertiser censored* scenes with the object of his obsession. That might even be some of the evidence found on his laptop that lead an unnamed source to tell the media that JH was "obsessed with Whitney".

*sigh* I feel like I'm obsessed with this case:banghead:


You and me both! :twocents:

I had not thought about the fact that the phone pictures of Whitney could be transferred to a computer but you are right.

I was looking back through different news articles and I wasnt able to find anything definite about the "peeping Tom" comment. Do you know where that came from? I am also trying to track down where the statement that JH was "obsessed with Whitney" came from.

IF he really was obsessed with her then that adds a whole other layer to this case that has to be factored in to the things he said and did doesnt it?
 
You and me both! :twocents:

I had not thought about the fact that the phone pictures of Whitney could be transferred to a computer but you are right.

I was looking back through different news articles and I wasnt able to find anything definite about the "peeping Tom" comment. Do you know where that came from? I am also trying to track down where the statement that JH was "obsessed with Whitney" came from.

IF he really was obsessed with her then that adds a whole other layer to this case that has to be factored in to the things he said and did doesnt it?

Glow, I once tried to find information on the peeper thing and only found posts here in earlier threads referring to a comment made under an article in MSM. From what I remember, someone posted under the news article, that their friend lived in the same apartment complex where the Holts use to live and said JH peeped at her from the balcony, but it went unreported to the police.
It did occur to me that a there could be a possibility that it was reported to the apartment management though, and maybe the Holts were asked to move out. Again only rumor.
Also, there was a headline on MSM about Jonathan being obsessed with Whitney, but that was the extent of, no meat to the hook!
 
A most excellent theory and post, very thought provoking!

When you mention the right or left hand dexterity, this is something that has puzzled me every time I think about it (I had it underlined in red in my copy of the affidavit). In the affidavit during the 2nd JH interview, JH said the robber pointed a gun at him with his right hand but JH indicated how it was done while pointing with his left hand. I guess I always wondered if this observation by LE was significant to the case and therefore put to the page (page 21 paragraph 4)

I was told Joyce Nagy asked Jonathan what kind of gun the man had stuck in his face, she said "a revolver?" He then said "no" and indicated it wasn't a revolver, it was "whatever the other kind is called." He could see that the man had his finger on the trigger, and he told them the man used his right hand to point the gun at him (but indicated a pointing motion with his left hand).

Thank you! From what I have read, the blood splatter evidence can sometimes help determine if the shooter was right or left handed, and if a second person was involved. My theory is just based on the evidence description in the 44 page document. There was probably some cleanup in the vehicle, so some of the evidence was likely removed. Here is a link that talks a little about right and left handed evidence:

http://www.officer.com/article/10250125/bloodstain-evidence-is-critical-part-2

"Bloodstain Patterns Tell a Story

Blood spatter patterns on walls and ceiling can provide a wealth of information about both the events that occurred and about the attacker. The angle at which blood droplets hit the wall can tell where the victim and attacker were at the time the spatter was made. The degree to which the droplets are elongated or teardrop-shaped can be used to determine the velocity that the blood was traveling at the time of impact and the relative ferocity of the blow dealt to the victim. The direction that blood is cast off relative to the victim can determine whether the attacker is right or left handed, clearly a vital piece of information. It is also possible, in some cases, to determine that a second attacker was involved in an event, even when no other information indicates their presence."


If the shooter was actually sitting in the backseat (drivers side) with his head against the window, then the Explorer might have been facing East. The first reason that I pointed out, was because of the West winds that day. The winds, blood and broken window could have caused blood splatter on the hood. Secondly, the perpetrator would be facing the victim and facing the roadway in the turnout. A position of control and lookout in the vehicle. One thing that we also do not know, is if the engine was running in the SUV while they were parked. I am sure the windows would have fogged up if the engine was not on.
 
Sasquatch!
18.gif


Your post was amazing!

You really covered a lot of ground with that plus your extra information. My only thought

ok **graphic warning**

was that the blood on the hood may have come from him resting the body there briefly while deciding where to deposit it. But I like your thoughts also.

So tell me, have you any theories on the tooth(?) that was found I believe, on the drivers side floorboard?

And do you have a theory on who/why the phone was thrown out?

Once again, great post and thank you for sharing all your hard work and research.
thewave.gif
 
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