Oscar Pistorius Defense

[JudgeJudi]

Welcome Judi

Love your show!!??

What part of Australia are you from? I'm in QLD.

G'day Bobbie. My show's great and I earn more than Oprah But I have to say that the Oscar show is the greatest show on earth.

I'm in Sydney.

 

[Forensics]

This interesting article gives two forensic psychologists' views on OP's lack of remorse.

http://www.biznews.com/health-bizne...pistorius-performance-may-prove-mental-state/

And as to OP's many lies, here's one more to add to the list. You'll remember he testified about a boating accident when he severely injured his face. What a shame Nel didn't know about the contents of the following article. The third last paragraph is especially interesting, but also frustrating.

http://ewn.co.za/2014/04/23/OPINION-Did-Oscar-Pistorius-lie-on-the-stand

Yes I am beginning to believe that OP does, indeed, suffer from Narcissistic Personality Disorder - his ego and lack of remorse are just two indicators. Apparently, people with this disorder also demonstrate narcissistic rage. According to Wikipedia, "narcissists' need total control of their environment, including "the need for revenge, for righting a wrong, for undoing a hurt by whatever means". It is an attempt by the narcissist to turn from a passive sense of victimisation to an active role in giving pain to others, while at the same time attempting to rebuild their own (actually false) sense of self-worth. It may also involve self-protection and preservation, with rage serving to restore a sense of safety and power by destroying that which had threatened the narcissist.

Narcissistic rage is the uncontrollable and unexpected anger that results from a threat to a narcissist's self-esteem or worth. Rage comes in many forms, but all pertain to the same important thing: revenge.

To the narcissist, the rage is directed towards the person that they feel has slighted them; to other people, the rage is incoherent and unjust. This rage impairs their cognition, therefore impairing their judgment. During the rage they are prone to shouting, fact distortion and making groundless accusations."

Narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It does seem to explain OP's actions in relation to a number of situations, including at least two of the firearm charges - the car sunroof incident and the shooting of Reeva.

To quote from another article in Psychology Today.....

"Hell hath no fury or contempt as a narcissist you dare to disagree with, tell they’re wrong, or embarrass."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/just-listen/201202/rage-coming-soon-narcissist-near-you

 

[JudgeJudi]

Don't think a link to this has been posted. It's really only worth reading if you want to see how many daft statements can be fit into one short article. Thanks too Judgejudi for those links of your's- that first article in particular was an interesting read.

http://groundreport.com/support-growing-for-oscar-pistorius/

Words fail me.

 

[Forensics]

Reading further on Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The following are some of their character traits.....how many do you think relate to Oscar? Quite a few I would expect...

* Control freaks
* Irritability
* Short fuses
* Low frustration tolerance
* Argumentative
* Need to have the last word
* Unable to lose
* Won’t take “No” for an answer
* Quick to anger if you don’t accommodate them
* Quick to being aggressively defensive if you call them on any deficiency, fault or responsibility
* Can’t apologise or if do, can’t do it sincerely
* Rarely say, “Thank you” or “Congratulations”
* Don’t feel or demonstrate remorse
* Feel entitled to enthusiastic and appreciative approval, adoration, agreement and obedience
* Gloat in victory, sullen in defeat
* Quick to rage if you humiliate them

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/just-listen/201202/rage-coming-soon-narcissist-near-you

.....quite revealing isn't it?

 

[DebinGA]

Those NPD traits explain why people close to OP soothe him at every opportunity. He could "blow" at any moment.

 

[BritsKate]

Reading further on Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The following are some of their character traits.....how many do you think relate to Oscar? Quite a few I would expect...

* Control freaks
* Irritability
* Short fuses
* Low frustration tolerance
* Argumentative
* Need to have the last word
* Unable to lose
* Won’t take “No” for an answer
* Quick to anger if you don’t accommodate them
* Quick to being aggressively defensive if you call them on any deficiency, fault or responsibility
* Can’t apologise or if do, can’t do it sincerely
* Rarely say, “Thank you” or “Congratulations”
* Don’t feel or demonstrate remorse
* Feel entitled to enthusiastic and appreciative approval, adoration, agreement and obedience
* Gloat in victory, sullen in defeat
* Quick to rage if you humiliate them

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/just-listen/201202/rage-coming-soon-narcissist-near-you

.....quite revealing isn't it?

Indeed. It reminds me of one of my favourite quotes too. 'Not all abusers are narcissists but all narcissists are abusive.' (I was married to a guy diagnosed with antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders. )

 

[BritsKate]

Listening to Dr. Stipp's testimony, several questions occurred to me that I have no doubt trial watchers here have the answers to (I hope).

What was the reason OP carried Reeva downstairs? So far, I have not seen or heard any reasons given for his moving her.

Dr. Stipp testified that after checking Reeva and finding no sign of life, he went outside and talked to Mr. Stander and asked him if the ambulance was on its way. Stander said, "No," and that he hadn't called one yet.

Does any one know why? Even though it sounds like several calls had to be made after Dr. Stipp asked (There doesn't seem to be the same kind of 911 system we have in the US.), I don't understand why that wasn't the first thing someone would have done, whether it was Oscar or Stander. Was any reason given by anyone for this delay?

It also is baffling to me, incomprehensible, actually, that OP would carry a mortally wounded person downstairs, but not call an ambulance, even while knowing it was hopeless.

What was the point of moving her, since he was not moving her closer to the not-yet summoned medical help? Has this come up in all the testimony I have not seen? TIA

Nausicaa already provided a great answer but in addition to this, one needs to also take note that Oscar called Stander before netcare because he states he needed help to lift Reeva. Netcare hadn't told him yet to move her though. And ultimately, he carried her downstairs unassisted anyway.

Hmmm.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Those NPD traits explain why people close to OP soothe him at every opportunity. He could "blow" at any moment.

re: soothing
reeva appeared to have the soothing ability, the empathy. she had some shared experience of disability - albeit temporary disability.

re: 'blow' at any moment
conversely, she also had the rising career; the ability to debate rather than aquiesce [the law degree]; fantastic looks and physique; the personality to draw [away] the attention of the crowd.

the powder keg of ingredients.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Reading further on Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The following are some of their character traits.....how many do you think relate to Oscar? Quite a few I would expect...

* Control freaks
* Irritability
* Short fuses
* Low frustration tolerance
* Argumentative
* Need to have the last word
* Unable to lose
* Won’t take “No” for an answer
* Quick to anger if you don’t accommodate them
* Quick to being aggressively defensive if you call them on any deficiency, fault or responsibility
* Can’t apologise or if do, can’t do it sincerely
* Rarely say, “Thank you” or “Congratulations”
* Don’t feel or demonstrate remorse
* Feel entitled to enthusiastic and appreciative approval, adoration, agreement and obedience
* Gloat in victory, sullen in defeat
* Quick to rage if you humiliate them

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/just-listen/201202/rage-coming-soon-narcissist-near-you

.....quite revealing isn't it?

absolutely.
i have looked also into sociopathic liars, and also looking at op's childhood, just based on what little i know, and obviously only scratching the surface here:

"In children, inflated self-views and grandiose feelings, which are characteristics of narcissism, are part of the normal self-development. Children typically cannot understand the difference between their actual and their ideal self, which causes an unrealistic perception of the self. After about age 8, views of the self, both positive and negative, begin to develop based on comparisons of peers, and become more realistic. Two factors that cause self-view to remain unrealistic are dysfunctional interactions with parents that can be either excessive attention or a lack thereof. For example but not limited to, the excessive attention and lack of attention go hand in hand when a child’s parents are divorced. Usually, one is overindulgent (typically the one seeing the child less) and the other shows less affection.[6] The child either compensates for lack of attention or acts in terms of unrealistic self-perception.[10]"

iirc, op had excessive attention from mother, but is estranged from father. so he had/has both extremes of the 'excessive attention/lack of attention' scale.

Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-finds-new-love/

Excerpt from an earlier article with OP and NPD in mind:

Pistorius’ coach, Ampie Louw, believes that his obsession with guns is a normal “boy thing” and that his infamous temper quickly blows over. “Oscar is a verbal guy. He gets grumpy when it doesn’t go his way, then he will be verbal, but the next day he will normally say sorry,” he said.

“We went to Imola [in Italy] … Something irritated Oscar and he totally lost it. I got in the car with Oscar next to me … and Oscar touched my leg and said: ‘Sorry coach, I still love you.’ So that’s the type of person he is.”

Lots of NPD clues there, especially at the end when OP blows up and, rather than worry his behavior may have affected his coach's love for him, he reassures Loux that he still loves him.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Your question breaks down into two, PPkik: 1. what was the ostensible reason why OP took Reeva downstairs and 2. what was the real reason.

The answer he gives to question 1 is that he was told by Netcare to take her in to hospital himself without waiting. This claim has not been verified. There is no evidence that he was told this or that he would have been told this.

The answer to question 2 is tantalizing, especially if you take the view that Reeva was quite certainly already dead.

The possibility that he contemplated secretly disposing of the body has been raised.

I'd love to know what Oscar told Netcare. There's no way in the wide world they would have told HIM to bring her in if he'd told them that she was suffering from multiple gunshot wounds, especially one to the head. It absolutely defies belief IMO. Netcare surely keep records of incoming calls and wouldn't it be interesting to know what Oscar told them. I can't see Roux calling them for the defence. As for OP carrying her downstairs, to be honest it makes me feel quite sick thinking about it. Remember that one of her arms was virtually amputated, and just the thought of it ...

 

[Ncl1968]

I'd love to know what Oscar told Netcare. There's no way in the wide world they would have told HIM to bring her in if he'd told them that she was suffering from multiple gunshot wounds, especially one to the head. It absolutely defies belief IMO. Netcare surely keep records of incoming calls and wouldn't it be interesting to know what Oscar told them. I can't see Roux calling them for the defence. As for OP carrying her downstairs, to be honest it makes me feel quite sick thinking about it. Remember that one of her arms was virtually amputated, and just the thought of it ...

I wonder about getting her downstairs and away from the crime scene especially the toilet we know he did not intend to drive her to hospital
That with the black bags and rope and removal of the toilet door panels with the bullet holes in them all point to a clean up job
With op 's upper body strength I see no reason why he could not have shoulder charged the door open since toilet doors only have a weak lock as they are only meant for privacy not security

 

[DebinGA]

I think OP mainly wanted to make a "grand entrance" in the presence of witnesses who'd tell police how anguished he was when they saw him coming down the stairs with Reeva in his arms. And tampering with the bathroom scene too, of course.

 

[DebinGA]

I wonder about getting her downstairs and away from the crime scene especially the toilet we know he did not intend to drive her to hospital
That with the black bags and rope and removal of the toilet door panels with the bullet holes in them all point to a clean up job
With op 's upper body strength I see no reason why he could not have shoulder charged the door open since toilet doors only have a weak lock as they are only meant for privacy not security

RBBM - Well, the shoulder charge made it into his final version. In Scene II, still on stumps, he returned to the bathroom and, fearing it was Reeva in the WC, tried but failed to shoulder charge his way inside.

 

[Ncl1968]

RBBM - Well, the shoulder charge made it into his final version. In Scene II, still on stumps, he returned to the bathroom and, fearing it was Reeva in the WC, tried but failed to shoulder charge his way inside.

I have my suspicions that he could have done it that way but either he was hoping to confuse ballistic evidence or hide the bullet ridden panels

 

[jay-jay]

RBBM - Well, the shoulder charge made it into his final version. In Scene II, still on stumps, he returned to the bathroom and, fearing it was Reeva in the WC, tried but failed to shoulder charge his way inside.

.. and which in itself is a bit odd that he would even attempt to shoulder charge a door which he knows only opens outwards, so I don't even believe he tried to shoulder charge it .. yet another lie, methinks.

 

[DebinGA]

.. and which in itself is a bit odd that he would even attempt to shoulder charge a door which he knows only opens outwards, so I don't even believe he tried to shoulder charge it .. yet another lie, methinks.

You don't think it likely that OP on stumps shoulder charged the locked WC door holding his cocked, ready-to-fire gun in his right hand? Me either.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Your question breaks down into two, PPkik: 1. what was the ostensible reason why OP took Reeva downstairs and 2. what was the real reason.

The answer he gives to question 1 is that he was told by Netcare to take her in to hospital himself without waiting. This claim has not been verified. There is no evidence that he was told this or that he would have been told this.

The answer to question 2 is tantalizing, especially if you take the view that Reeva was quite certainly already dead.

The possibility that he contemplated secretly disposing of the body has been raised.

I haven't read about this but was it regarding the plastic bags, tape and rope? I feel sure OP was going to do something nefarious with those items because plastic bags would be the last thing you'd use to stem bleeding, and why use them anyway if Reeva was already dead. Perhaps he never got an opportunity because Dr Stipp et al started arriving on the scene. If he was planning on giving things to someone, it's unlikely to say the least that he'd go outside with blood all over his body to stash them in his car. You'd then have to assume that he was contemplating giving them to someone he'd called. You'd then have to consider a massive conspiracy. I can't even begin to contemplate disposing of the body. Those plastic bags have been niggling at me for some time.

 

[sleuth-d-]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-finds-new-love/

Excerpt from an earlier article with OP and NPD in mind:

Lots of NPD clues there, especially at the end when OP blows up and, rather than worry his behavior may have affected his coach's love for him, he reassures Loux that he still loves him.

very illuminating.
like the brazilian runner - his first major nemesis... he 'blew up' very publicly there and accused after london 2012. then 'apologised' the next day. note, the statement is not really an apology...

Oscar Pistorius apologises... - YouTube

the non-apology after the legal wrangling with ms taylor-memmory

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-slammed-broke-door-party.html#ixzz30HQtq8SC


also from that link:
'As I approached his large outside doors, Oscar was furiously trying to close them. He started to punch the door and then is when one of the top panels fell and hit my left leg,' she said.

that house takes some pounding. [or the south african building standards are akin to lego land's]

 

[sleuth-d-]

RBBM - Well, the shoulder charge made it into his final version. In Scene II, still on stumps, he returned to the bathroom and, fearing it was Reeva in the WC, tried but failed to shoulder charge his way inside.

and he punched a panel from the front door according to ms taylor-memmory's party incident.

so possibly had a good idea how easy the panels would fall out.