Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #67 *Appeal Verdict*

[K.T]

Leach just summarised their relationship. It was bit like a really bad romance spoiler:
"...romance blossomed and they became intimate...petty conflicts and tension...but in spite of these hiccups, she spent the night...did so that night...shot four times..."

 

[KarenUK]

Argh, wish I could follow live but stuck at work - thanks for the updates guys and gals!

 

[soozieqtips]

With ample justification the court found him to be a very poor witness.

 

[mrjitty]

Big point from Leach

Not clear what his version was. He had 3 versions

Critical for Nel re PPD

 

[JudgeJudi]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan · 6m6 minutes ago
#OscarPistorius appeal NOT dismissed. Leach first read out pension funds ruling. @eNCA

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan · 1m1 minute ago
Leach: one really doesn't know what #OscarPistorius explanation is for shooting @eNCA

 

[mrjitty]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan · 6m6 minutes ago
#OscarPistorius appeal NOT dismissed. Leach first read out pension funds ruling. @eNCA

That stopped my heart for a moment too!

 

[K.T]

Leach summarises quickly the states version and then goes in careful depth of Pistorius version and then the other versions.

Says Pistorius was a a bad witness..."in the light of these contradictions. There were other inherent..." problems but that these issues the judge seems to say does not change the judgement of the high court.

 

[mrjitty]

So Leach is focussing on making sure that what the decision has the full background

Wise given the public interest.

 

[mrjitty]

Keep losing my stream!

Right when he was explaining DE!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 1 Min.Vor 1 Minute
#OscarPistorius Leach: this court cannot interfere with the factual finding that there was no fight which led to the shooting. BB

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 51 Sek.Vor 51 Sekunden
#OscarPistorius Leach: dealing with the crime of murder - two forms: dolus directis and dolus eventualis.

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman 25 Sek.Vor 26 Sekunden
#OscarPistorius Leach: eventualis - the person foresees the risk of death but continues with act, and reconciles with foreseeable outcome.

 

[mrjitty]

LOL

Mandy Wiener ‏@MandyWiener 9m9 minutes ago
Biggest news agencies in world misreporting #OscarPistorius judgment. Corrections/retractions please. NO Judgment yet delivered.

 

[K.T]

He goes into the three questions of law that prosecution brought forward in the appeal…

Talks about history of how questions of law can be brought to supreme court, unlike corrections of fact.

Now is talking about dolus, the three categories, in terms of definitions and intention.

Finally, talking about the case in terms of dolus eventualis...

 

[mrjitty]

Leach finds Masipa's reasoning on DE "confusing"

 

[K.T]

After quoting Masipa judgement in length now Leach starts...

"I find the reasoning to be confusing in various respects, the rehetorical question how could the deceased have forseen...wrongly applies a subjective rather than an objective approach to the subject of dolus"

 

[mrjitty]

At last some sharp legal logic!

"Incorrect test applied"

"Fundamental error"

 

[mrjitty]

Mandy Wiener ‏@MandyWiener 3m3 minutes ago
#OscarPistorius Leach is pretty much saying what I've heard senior advocates ranting about in legal chambers for months now.

 

[K.T]

"the distinction between subjective foresight and objective foreseablility must not become blurred. Moreover the court found...person behind the door not to have been reasonably foreseeable"

"but this is confused with the...decision that the accused was found guilty of culpable homicide on the basis that a reasonable person under the same circumstances would have foreseen the..."

Yes

 

[mrjitty]

BOOM!

"The Trial Court misdirected itself..." re DE

So looks like Nel gets over that DE hurdle - at least that absurdity is corrected.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Keep posting guys. My feed keeps going in and out. Damn Damn Damn. Lol

 

[Sherbert]

Masipa conflated tests for DD and DE. And her conclusion that it was not DE was based on Reeva being in the bedroom. The trial court misdirected itself and the issue was mixed fact and law.