Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #68 *Appeal Verdict*

[Trotterly]

Neither did Masipa-- shouldn't they have appealed her verdict based on that reasoning before taking issue with the SCA?

But Masipa found that he feared for his life.

This is a finding that anyone could have made without the need for legal knowledge and did not depend on law.

 

[james83]

You get to the point where you wonder if the Authorities actually want him to do a runner, almost like they are saying "Now dont you run away Oscar" whilst they wink at him.

 

[Marfa Lights]

But Masipa found that he feared for his life.

This is a finding that anyone could have made without the need for legal knowledge and did not depend on law.

Yes, she did. But most people find that hearing a window open on a hot night and hearing someone closing the toilet door when you have a houseguest in your en suite with you does not justify fear and panic that would lead someone to blow them to bits in the toilet without even asking them to identify themselves.

Also, weren't we talking about whether Masipa felt his disability justified his fear??

 

[cottonweaver]

Flabba case decided today , murder. Accused is black and poor, self-defence case, she killed her boyfriend Flabba.
@BrendaWardle 8h8 hours ago Tweet
"#Manqele must await her fate as a convicted person in police cells. She has less than 24 hrs. Oh how the SAn justice system makes me sick!

No need for her lawyers 2study the judgment & come up with considered grounds in mitigation. Ah there u go, her bail is cancelled! #Manqele

Oh my goodness what disjointed justice we have. #Manqele convicted today, sentencing tomorrow. Really? No probation or parole officers?"

background to case if anyone interested:

"State prosecutors accused Manqele of killing Flabba out of jealousy.

The judge has found the convicted murderer account that she stabbed Habedi in self-defence cannot be taken to be reasonably possibly true.

He says the force she used to plunge a steak knife into his chest does not match the extent of the threat she claims he posed to her life."
http://ewn.co.za/2015/12/09/Flabba-case-Judgment

Off to prison she goes tonight, to be sentenced tomorrow.

 

[Marfa Lights]

J<snipped> reminds me of his 4 year battle over the prosthetics, fight, fight, throw money at it......

I agree there are so many diverse "expert" opinions out there, the consistent thing they mentioned over the last few years, is this will run & run

I thought of the same thing earlier today-- he is used to these long protracted battles, sees them as heroic, and expects to win based on past experiences. If not, well expect the chairs to fly!

 

[james83]

Yes, she did. But most people find that hearing a window open on a hot night and hearing someone closing the toilet door when you have a houseguest in your en suite with you does not justify fear and panic that would lead someone to blow them to bits in the toilet without even asking them to identify themselves.

Also, weren't we talking about whether Masipa felt his disability justified his fear??

I've never quite understood why someone would open a window of a room they are going to spend seconds in at 3am in the morning, doesn't make sense at all, probably because it isn't true.

 

[Trotterly]

Yes, she did. But most people find that hearing a window open on a hot night and hearing someone closing the toilet door when you have a houseguest in your en suite with you does not justify fear and panic that would lead someone to blow them to bits in the toilet without even asking them to identify themselves.

Also, weren't we talking about whether Masipa felt his disability justified his fear??

If he leapt into action on previous occasions when he heard a noise that he couldn't even immediately identify as a threat then is it so strange that he would immediately (and recklessly) focus in on an identified threat to the exclusion of all else?

Masipa looked at the situation as a whole and determined that whilst disability is not an excuse that it was in this case a perfectly possible contributor to his fear.

 

[Trotterly]

You get to the point where you wonder if the Authorities actually want him to do a runner, almost like they are saying "Now dont you run away Oscar" whilst they wink at him.

Nel did agree to a 20km radius in the bail. The nearest (domestic) airport to OP is 19km away.

 

[Val1]

Nel did agree to a 20km radius in the bail. The nearest (domestic) airport to OP is 19km away.

BBM - Oh really.. that's not what I heard Nel say, or has been reported:

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...storius-convicted-of-murder-to-apply-for-bail
"Prosecutor Gerrie Nel, however, said Pistorius might be a flight risk, considering the severity of his crime and the possibly tough sentence that awaits him, and said conditions for bail should be extremely tight.

"We have an airport that we would not want the accused to get to," Nel said. He suggested that any movements by Pistorius be restricted with electronic monitoring to a 10-kilometer (6-mile) radius around his uncle's home, where he is under house arrest."

 

[cottonweaver]

the waterkloof air base i linked to a couple of days ago is a military base though- not commercial
I was only joking.

And his family doesn't really own the SA Nat Defence Force... whatever he says when he is pis8ed.

 

[Marfa Lights]

I've never quite understood why someone would open a window of a room they are going to spend seconds in at 3am in the morning, doesn't make sense at all, probably because it isn't true.

Well, allow me to explain it to you-- if it's hot and stuffy, and the A/C isn't working, you might want some cross ventilation with the OPEN bedroom balcony doors. Or if you really are there to use the bathroom facilities, you might want some fresh air, either for yourself or the next occupant.

 

[foxbluff]

JJ posted it on the same page as my post - so it definitely does open. I have also read elsewhere, the following likely course foxbluff:1. appeal to CC, (the processing of this application in itself may delay the sentence hearing and Roux cab go a little beyond the deadline) , assume unsuccessful with having CC hear this Appeal, so next2. sentencing at HC. Let's assume sentence given is too long for OP, so next3. he appeals against sentence, either through HC or SCA againAll that assumes he has the funds, he is hardly going to go Legal Aid equivalent is he!Hearing the above speculation reminds me of his 4 year battle over the prosthetics, fight, fight, throw money at it......I agree there are so many diverse "expert" opinions out there, the consistent thing they mentioned over the last few years, is this will run & run

Ty .... Your last sentence about "this will run & run" (which, of course, it already has), made me think of something else. I'm now wondering what the possibility is that Roux is trying to delay things for another couple of years in order that, when OP finally is sentenced, all this additional time he'll be spending under house arrest will get deducted from his new prison sentence and then he simply "walks away." .... Gads, I think I've entered the Twilight Zone now!

 

[Marfa Lights]

BBM - Oh really.. that's not what I heard Nel say, or has been reported:

http://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...storius-convicted-of-murder-to-apply-for-bail
"Prosecutor Gerrie Nel, however, said Pistorius might be a flight risk, considering the severity of his crime and the possibly tough sentence that awaits him, and said conditions for bail should be extremely tight.

"We have an airport that we would not want the accused to get to," Nel said. He suggested that any movements by Pistorius be restricted with electronic monitoring to a 10-kilometer (6-mile) radius around his uncle's home, where he is under house arrest."

And then he, characteristically, agreed to the 20 km radius the judge decided.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Ty .... Your last sentence about "this will run & run" (which, of course, it already has), made me think of something else. I'm now wondering what the possibility is that Roux is trying to delay things for another couple of years in order that, when OP finally is sentenced, all this additional time he'll be spending under house arrest will get deducted from his new prison sentence and then he simply "walks away." .... Gads, I think I've entered the Twilight Zone now!

I am really not liking that screenplay...

 

[Marfa Lights]

If he leapt into action on previous occasions when he heard a noise that he couldn't even immediately identify as a threat then is it so strange that he would immediately (and recklessly) focus in on an identified threat to the exclusion of all else?

Masipa looked at the situation as a whole and determined that whilst disability is not an excuse that it was in this case a perfectly possible contributor to his fear.

BIB: Did she say that??

BTW: I agree with the "recklessly" part.

 

[jilly]

Ignore button helps prevent perpetuating discussions we have had to endure x1000

Since i have several people on ignore, i get far less tempted to react to the same old baiting

I agree its unfortunate that the ignore function doesn't cover quoted content. Many other sites have this.

You can always report a post where you think another poster is not complying with the terms of service here. Small black triangle lower left of each post - just click on that.

 

[Trotterly]

the waterkloof air base i linked to a couple of days ago is a military base though- not commercial
I was only joking.

And his family doesn't really own the SA Nat Defence Force... whatever he says when he is pis8ed.

There is a domestic airport to the north of Uncle Arnold's called Wonderboom. 19km by road.

Just google map it if you want to see where it is.

 

[jilly]

Ty .... Your last sentence about "this will run & run" (which, of course, it already has), made me think of something else. I'm now wondering what the possibility is that Roux is trying to delay things for another couple of years in order that, when OP finally is sentenced, all this additional time he'll be spending under house arrest will get deducted from his new prison sentence and then he simply "walks away." .... Gads, I think I've entered the Twilight Zone now!

I would guess that the more time Oscar has for house arrest, there's more opportunity for him to screw up. Staying in every nite for 2 yrs? It's going to be a challenge for him to even do this until April.

I have no confidence in SAs justice system. Who's even monitoring Oscars new bracelet.

 

[Val1]

And then he, characteristically, agreed to the 20 km radius the judge decided.

BBM - The whole point here is that it was the judge who decided and then so ordered that OP be allowed the 20km, Nel could only abide by it, just like he had to abide by Masipa's findings of fact.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...d-to-jail-live#block-56669ab3e4b0117e72904ef0

""The state and the defence broadly agree on the bail application, the judge says.

But it is up to the court to decide, he points out, as is the case with any bail conditions.""

 

[DexterMorgan]

Can we all admit that Oscar is not a real flight risk?

He is very noticeable and his family is paying off most of the judges anyways.

I just don't want to see him on house arrest for 2 years and once he gets sentenced ; They say that after 6 months he will be eligible for parole due to the payouts and bribes that Oscar and family have been giving these judges for years. Even before the murder. Jmo