Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #68 *Appeal Verdict*

[mrjitty]

I am still waiting for Pandax81 to come back and explain how Justice Leach got it wrong re PPD

Leach seized on the obvious point that nowhere in Masipa's judgement does it say

I find the defence has succeeded on PPD

Amazing given this was the primary defence advanced in the statement of defence.

But yeah - great work Judge!

 

[Sherbert]

But there was expert testimony that he was especially anxious. I think such a finding is not based on what happened post shooting but is from his character and his character as a disabled person. He claims he felt very vulnerable on his stumps and the SCA seems to have disregarded the finding he was scared for his life. Even though he put himself in that position as he had done before when investigating noises.

Anxious or not, he was not entitled to kill. What they reversed was Masipa's finding that he didn't intend to kill.

 

[Giles]

Here's an interesting and detailed interview with legal expert Michael Motsoeneng Bill (Video 20mins in 2 parts)

In part 1, they cover the bail hearing, the process of appeal to the CC, the SCA judgement and sentencing factors if & when it returns to the HC. In Part 2, they talk about Judge Masipa and some broader aspects of the trial as a whole.

Part 1 - https://youtu.be/GiNQBhkITGY

Part 2 - https://youtu.be/bmN2RDbXpXY

 

[cottonweaver]

I am still waiting for Pandax81 to come back and explain how Justice Leach got it wrong re PPD

Leach seized on the obvious point that nowhere in Masipa's judgement does it say



Amazing given this was the primary defence advanced in the statement of defence.

But yeah - great work Judge!

BIB Yes I was wondering where was pandax as I had spent time trying to work out why Nel's appeal was supposedly so weak.

 

[Paul Connelly]

This is quite interesting. I see Pistorius' chances of succeeding at the CC getting better and better. One of the judges that sits on the CC is Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng. He was appointed by Zuma who as we all know is owned by Pistorius and his family. So we know there is influence here. Not just that, this is probably just one of many judges that have been appointed by Zuma that can be influenced.

Now in terms of Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng, many critics say that he lacks gender sensitivity and his rulings tend to go against women. Another point for Pistorius.

Here are some of his rulings

In the 2001 case of S v Mathebe, the accused was convicted of assault with the intention to do grievous bodily harm. He had tied his girlfriend onto his car and dragged her on a gravel road at a high speed for 50 meters then later on denied her access to medical treatment till the following day. Here, Justice Mogoeng reduced the accused`s sentence from 2 years imprisonment to a fine of R 4000

The 2005 case of S v Moipolai involved the rape of an 8 months pregnant woman by her long-term boyfriend and father of her two other children. Justice Mogoeng reduced a sentence of 10 years imprisonment to 5 years and he stated here that the rape was not as “serious” as it would have been had a stranger committed it.

Before I heed the wisdom of others and hit the ignore button I wanted to exhort you to examine your conscience for the following reason:

Reeva is but a few years dead and the grief still raw and although my profession necessitates a study and understanding of Ponerology from both a theological and scientific point of view, it chills me to see how your comments effortlessly manage to dance on her grave for no good reason.


I'm admittedly struggling to absorb the sheer scope of such hateful idiocy. It's like gazing through a squalid little window into an infinitesimal universe of pure blockheaded spite. Spiraling galaxies of ignorance colliding against a backdrop of what looks like dark prejudice, dotted hither and thither with twinkling stars of snide innuendo and hopelessly deranged fantasies.

Reeva has been murdered once by the person she desperately tried to love despite his best efforts. I sincerely urge you not to demean yourself by murdering the rights of her remaining loved ones to not have to stumble across such feculent and hurtful fantasies.

 

[KarenUK]

Before I heed the wisdom of others and hit the ignore button I wanted to to exhort you to examine your conscience for the following reason:

Reeva is but a few years dead and the grief still raw and although my profession necessitates a study and understanding of Ponerology from both a theological and scientific point of view, it chills me to see how your comments effortlessly manage to dance on her grave for no good reason.


I'm admittedly struggling to absorb the sheer scope of such hateful idiocy. It's like gazing through a squalid little window into an infinitesimal universe of pure blockheaded spite. Spiraling galaxies of ignorance colliding against a backdrop of what looks like dark prejudice, dotted hither and thither with twinkling stars of snide innuendo and hopelessly deranged fantasies.

Reeva has been murdered once by the person she desperately tried to love despite his best efforts. I sincerely urge you not to demean yourself by murdering the rights of her remaining loved ones to not have to stumble across such feculent and hurtful fantasies.

Great post - but I fear it will only fall on deaf ears. Not that I mind too much now I have been enlightened as to the existance of the Ignore button!

 

[Paul Connelly]

Great post - but I fear it will only fall on deaf ears. Not that I mind too much now I have been enlightened as to the existance of the Ignore button!

Deaf or daft?

 

[mrjitty]

Anxious or not, he was not entitled to kill. What they reversed was Masipa's finding that he didn't intend to kill.

Yes - and as carefully noted - that is mixed question of fact and law.

One looks at the facts established via evidence, (not disturbed) and then evaluates whether a legal standard has been met.

Masipa misdirected herself as to the legal standard - which is why the questions re fact are not relevant to Leach's decision

 

[Giles]

During a discussion, Martin Hood stated that he thinks that the State only being able to appeal on matters of law is unconstitutional and that this upcoming appeal could be an opportunity for the CC to rectify the Criminal Procedure Act in a way which would work against Pistorius.

At 2:20mins of the following video:

https://youtu.be/5ynQHzn9t9U

 

[ImmyR]

During a discussion, Martin Hood stated that he thinks that the State only being able to appeal on matters of law is unconstitutional and that this upcoming appeal could be an opportunity for the CC to rectify the Criminal Procedure Act in a way which would work against Pistorius.

At 2:20mins of the following video:

https://youtu.be/5ynQHzn9t9U

Oh how I hope he's right!

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

Just to add to my previous comment, there's a poster, one of two who come here from time to time, who normally "reside" on DS. That person got an absolute hiding yesterday, and I do mean a hiding. Have a look. Some of you will know who I'm talking about but I won't take this any further.

Hi JudgeJudi!

What is DS? Can you please provide a link - I would like to read about this hiding

 

[Colin de France]

Great post - but I fear it will only fall on deaf ears. Not that I mind too much now I have been enlightened as to the existance of the Ignore button!

.......all this talk about hitting the ignore button i've never seen any like it.....those who do use the ignore button are so petrified that someone is talking about them that they log off and have a look anyway, no ones being fooled....i think it's a shame that different opinions can't be discussed without people taking sides, which is what it's all about......vive la difference...!

 

[Susza]

Anyway....it's nearly Christmas and the snivelling toe rag has taken up enough of my time already.

I wish you all the very, very happiest of Christmases, and a peaceful, safe New Year!

See you in April

Thank you, Lemon. Same for you and all the sharp minded posters here whose comments helped me so much to better follow and understand !
Let's hope for a more peaceful 2016.

 

[KarenUK]

.......all this talk about hitting the ignore button i've never seen any like it.....those who do use the ignore button are so petrified that someone is talking about them that they log off and have a look anyway, no ones being fooled....i think it's a shame that different opinions can't be discussed without people taking sides, which is what it's all about......vive la difference...!

I have no issues with people having differing opinions, what I don't like is the nastiness in some of the posts towards the victim in this case.
I have no intention of bothering to do any of that to see if I'm being talked about, to be honest. I very much doubt I am as I am not a regular contributer, but even if I am - "What the eyes don't see, the heart doesn't grieve"!

 

[Sherbert]

Before I heed the wisdom of others and hit the ignore button I wanted to exhort you to examine your conscience for the following reason:

Reeva is but a few years dead and the grief still raw and although my profession necessitates a study and understanding of Ponerology from both a theological and scientific point of view, it chills me to see how your comments effortlessly manage to dance on her grave for no good reason.


I'm admittedly struggling to absorb the sheer scope of such hateful idiocy. It's like gazing through a squalid little window into an infinitesimal universe of pure blockheaded spite. Spiraling galaxies of ignorance colliding against a backdrop of what looks like dark prejudice, dotted hither and thither with twinkling stars of snide innuendo and hopelessly deranged fantasies.

Reeva has been murdered once by the person she desperately tried to love despite his best efforts. I sincerely urge you not to demean yourself by murdering the rights of her remaining loved ones to not have to stumble across such feculent and hurtful fantasies.

:goodpost:

 

[cottonweaver]

:goodpost:

Agree stunningly well written, that image in BIB is almost as scary as one of Goya's nightmare series that it brought to mind for me.
I won't link them , but if you Google image search you'll see what I mean!

 

[DexterMorgan]

Before I heed the wisdom of others and hit the ignore button I wanted to exhort you to examine your conscience for the following reason:

Reeva is but a few years dead and the grief still raw and although my profession necessitates a study and understanding of Ponerology from both a theological and scientific point of view, it chills me to see how your comments effortlessly manage to dance on her grave for no good reason.


I'm admittedly struggling to absorb the sheer scope of such hateful idiocy. It's like gazing through a squalid little window into an infinitesimal universe of pure blockheaded spite. Spiraling galaxies of ignorance colliding against a backdrop of what looks like dark prejudice, dotted hither and thither with twinkling stars of snide innuendo and hopelessly deranged fantasies.

Reeva has been murdered once by the person she desperately tried to love despite his best efforts. I sincerely urge you not to demean yourself by murdering the rights of her remaining loved ones to not have to stumble across such feculent and hurtful fantasies.

Very direct and well said. Some people want to gloat and dance on her grave because they are probably Oscar himself who is bored during his house arrest. Jmo

Good post.

 

[Mamadoos]

Anyway....it's nearly Christmas and the snivelling toe rag has taken up enough of my time already.

I wish you all the very, very happiest of Christmases, and a peaceful, safe New Year!

See you in April

I've really enjoyed reading your posts. I'm sure you must be a writer too along with Paul C.

 

[Tortoise]

But there was expert testimony that he was especially anxious. I think such a finding is not based on what happened post shooting but is from his character and his character as a disabled person. He claims he felt very vulnerable on his stumps and the SCA seems to have disregarded the finding he was scared for his life. Even though he put himself in that position as he had done before when investigating noises.

We don't know if he had ever investigated noises on his stumps before though, and without that information the example of how he behaved before is of no use in this supposed incident. He may only realistically have had a fight reaction when wearing his prosthetic legs.

 

[44ALLAN]

There was an incident in Oz last week where the police attended a scene where witnesses heard a woman screaming for help and heard a man threatening to kill her. When they arrived there was just a single man who had a battle with a spider. I think he won the battle but his screams were interpreted as being from a woman. Witnesses can be wrong.

I totally agree..........what sort of bullets was the spider using?