Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #68 *Appeal Verdict*

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Kevin Lerena interview

OP told KL, a friend who “betrayed” him, he was “terrified” of returning to prison days before he was convicted of murdering Reeva. I’m sure there would be few who look forward to returning to prison, but why would he be terrified? He’s already spent close to a year there and he came to no harm at all. It appears that everything “terrifies” OP, even a noise. If a mere sound causes him to murder someone, under no circumstances should he be anywhere other than prison or in a mental institution.

'He broke down as he revealed he is haunted by the prospect of being sent back to such a "disgusting, terrible" place'.
This is retribution for murder. What did he expect, a comfy suite with a scenic view from his cell? I’m unaware of any other prisoners who have their own private bath. Certainly none of the journalists who went on the guided tour of the prison mentioned seeing any other inmate who enjoyed this special privilege. Of course we know that OP is 'special', and so do the family - except when something happens that’s not to their liking, e.g. he wasn’t released after serving 1/6 of his sentence as the decision to release him under correctional supervision was made before he’d served the requisite period. The family bleated “This experience leaves us with the uncomfortable conclusion that the public, political and media hype that was allowed to develop around Oscar's trial has undermined his right to be treated like any other prisoner". Of course he was never treated like any other prisoner. He had his own cell with a private bath. There are other amputees in that same prison who share a cell with 37 prisoners.

In an emotional phone call to KL, he said, “I don’t want to go back to jail. It’s a terrible place, so disgusting you can’t imagine”. I say, “Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time” (don’t do something risky unless you are willing and able to accept the full weight of the consequences, and OP never accepts responsibility for anything).

OP, said he felt betrayed by KL after he gave evidence against him during his murder trial. He said OP is depressed, has lost all interest in training and women – and suggested he might ‘do something stupid’ rather than go back to prison. He fears for OP's life after his incarceration left him ‘so low and without anything to live for'. So OP “felt” betrayed – lucky him. Reeva was betrayed. She felt those Black Talons rip through her flesh and then they destroyed her brain. If he “feels” so low and without anything to live for, he should try remembering that Reeva has no life. Full stop.

‘He has been left so down and broken by just one year inside, I don’t even want to think about what is going to happen to him if he goes back for any longer. I don’t think he will be able to handle it’.
After handling it for a year and emerging unscathed, there’s no reason to suspect further years will cause him to come to any harm either.

‘I am just worried he is going to do something stupid. He just seems to have given up on life’.
He’s done many stupid things in the past, e.g. the Vaal River boating accident and nodding off at the wheel, completely destroying one side of his car in the process, after setting off for Vicky Miles’ home from his at 3am after they’d had a blistering row.

'I know they don’t let them have anything in jail that they can harm themselves with, but, you know, this is South Africa, and you can buy stuff you want, even in jail.’
One can always succeed in that endeavour if that’s the true goal.

The friendship soured after the incident at Tashas just weeks before OP murdered Reeva –when OP accidentally discharged a gun under a table, the bullet narrowly missing KL’s foot. This resulted in OP being charged later with firearms offences and KL was called to give evidence on behalf of the State. To expect another person, let alone a friend, to not tell the truth in court about the incident when it was OP's gross negligence is totally shocking.

Even during their charged reconciliation after OP was released from prison into house arrest, OP was still upset at what he felt was his old friend’s ‘betrayal’. ‘Oscar told me how let down he had felt because I had testified against him. I explained that I didn’t have any choice, that I had been subpoenaed to give evidence and that it had been hard for me to do it. But he wouldn’t accept it. He insisted that I could have refused to do it’.
The world is not devoid of decent individuals who have morals and a sense of propriety. OP is not one of them. His sense of entitlement, arrogance and callousness in making his one-time friend feel guilty for doing the right thing is disgusting. As mentioned in the previously posted lists, sociopaths do not accept blame themselves, but blame others, even for acts they obviously committed.

‘He told me I wasn’t the only friend to have let him down, he was very upset that a lot of friends have dropped him and walked away. He thought people would be there for him, but they haven’t been. He just sounded so lonely and sad. Friends were very important to Oscar.'
Friends, what friends? Not one friend testified in mitigation for him. No doubt they know, just as we know, he’s a lying, heinous and now convicted murderer.

'He just kept saying how low he felt, how tired he was. He kept talking about how hard prison had been for him. He has obviously been completely broken by it. He seemed despondent – as if there was no point in training because he didn’t have any future in sport. I was expecting him to want to get back into shape straight away. It’s as if he has just given up on it. He’s in a terrible space.'
“Completely broken”. No, we saw the convicted murderer smirking and smiling after being granted bail. He looked like someone who’d just been acquitted of a crime. The ‘terrible space’ is the cell which is awaiting his inevitable return.

OP told him, 'I can’t think about anything else right now apart from what’s coming up next for me, it’s big’. He added, 'He seemed to know that the odds were against him.'
I hope it’s big too ... 15 years or more behind bars before he’s let loose from prison.

‘I asked him straight out – was there anyone in his life now that he was out? He said straight away "not at all, far from it”. He was quite firm about that. He told me how much he loved Reeva and how much he still missed her. He really sounded in pain about it. He said he thought about her all the time”.
I bet he thinks of Reeva all the time too, but not with any remorse or compassion. In his warped and twisted mind, his whole situation is entirely due to Reeva, to wit:

Nel: If you waited, you would not have fired. Am I right?
OP: I am not sure about a second, Reeva would come out or she would spoken to me or... then I
would not have fired.

Yeah, right. Blame the poor defenceless dead victim for her own death at his hand.

'I know that his religion has now become very important to him, I hope it pulls him through this.’
As OP said during the trial, “I was crying out for the Lord to help me”. To help him, not Reeva.
I screamed, ‘Help! Help! Help!’ I screamed for somebody to help me. To help him, not Reeva.
Oh, wait, OP is the victim. Barry Roux told us so.

OP: I mean there have been times that I have just been... just struggling a lot and my God is my God of refuge.

If only Reeva had a refuge, refuge from the devil that OP truly is.

'I asked Oscar outright what had gone on. He told me "God knows what really happened that night". He said he didn’t feel he had to justify his actions to anyone as he and God knew the true story’.
And we know the true story too.

Apologies for the length. I've been stewing over this since I first read the article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...just-days-convicted-murder.html#ixzz3tMIX8zHf
 
I'd give him an extra 5 years on top for his shameless manipulation of everyone. I'd rather have a slug as a friend. Lerena makes me sick too for acting as his messenger and disloyalty to Reeva's memory.
 
Kevin Lerena interview

<snipped> OP was still upset at what he felt was his old friend&#8217;s &#8216;betrayal&#8217;. &#8216;Oscar told me how let down he had felt because I had testified against him. I explained that I didn&#8217;t have any choice, that I had been subpoenaed to give evidence and that it had been hard for me to do it. But he wouldn&#8217;t accept it. He insisted that I could have refused to do it&#8217;.

BIB above: This said it all for me... after a lengthy trial, after nearly a year in prison, he still thinks his "friends" should perjure themselves in front of God and the world to lie for him. It's unbelievable.

Poor Kevin Lerena probably does not realize Oscar has always viewed him as just a hanger-on and was more valuable as a "patsy" than a friend. What kind of friend asks you to lie for him, or in the case of his other friend, Darren Fresco, take the rap for a crime?
 
Yes, utterly astounded, that you think not only that your assessment of the trial trumps that of the five judges, but that his evidence was reliable and merited a sound conviction of CH. If you do not agree with the new verdict then saying you accept the SCA judgement is empty words as far as I am concerned. Your use of the word 'harsh' is shocking and abhorrent, considering that Pistorius proved through his own testimony that he did not honestly or genuinely believe his life to be in danger and considering too the way in which he fired 4 devastating bullets mercilessly through the door, at Reeva if you have the common sense to see it, or at any human being, if you do not.

My statement about murder was not a trap, it is interesting that you assume it was, however what is more interesting is that you ignored the main thrust of my post regarding his chances of success at appeal. I see you conveniently sidestepped this and the question I asked in my previous post concerning whether proper justice could be served based on Masipa's flawed factual findings.

I have never said my 'assessment of the trial trumps that of the five judges '.

Calling my words/responses/posts 'empty ', 'shocking', 'abhorrent', lacking in common sense, ignoring/sidestepping etc may well be reflective of your (and others ') opinions, but they are distracting from the point of the thread, and do not reflect my opinions. (which are equally valid)
 
I have never said my 'assessment of the trial trumps that of the five judges '.

Calling my words/responses/posts 'empty ', 'shocking', 'abhorrent', lacking in common sense, ignoring/sidestepping etc may well be reflective of your (and others ') opinions, but they are distracting from the point of the thread, and do not reflect my opinions. (which are equally valid)

...i agree with this....despite out différences of opinion the discussion should remain respectful, attempts at turning one group against another takes away any credibility from the poster.....
 
I have never said my 'assessment of the trial trumps that of the five judges '.

Calling my words/responses/posts 'empty ', 'shocking', 'abhorrent', lacking in common sense, ignoring/sidestepping etc may well be reflective of your (and others ') opinions, but they are distracting from the point of the thread, and do not reflect my opinions. (which are equally valid)

You haven't used my words but you have said you don't agree with the verdict, which has the same meaning.

Saying you accept the verdict of the SCA is indeed empty when you have said in the post before that you did not agree with the SCA's finding that Masipa made errors regarding Pistorius' reliability and ignoring evidence.

How are my opinions distracting from the point of the thread? I have never heard that one before, what is the thread if it is not opinion? Please explain, because now I see that you are using the way I have worded my opinions as yet another excuse to side-step the issues I have raised. If you are unable to argue a point just say so, rather than accusing me of distracting when that is exactly what you are doing here. My posts have raised issues that you have not even attempted to give an opinion on, so I wouldn't know how valid they are.

Your goal here seems to be to complain about labels and posters' mannerisms, instead of contributing.
 
The only thing that will echo into eternity is the truth.

when looking at the chronology of events, and when looking for the truth&#8230; what is your opinion on the issues surrounding pistorius&#8217; phone:

[a] it being removed from the crime scene, and
the fact that it was wiped?

do these actions fit badly with any man accused of a crime, but with nothing to hide?

and so then, specifically in this case, do these actions fit badly with a man who insists he is not guilty of murder. who also wants us to believe his story is the truth.
 
Sorry, I don't understand you. He has been found guilty of murder and that is an intentional act. Am I missing your point?

...you certainly are......he may well of been found guilty for the moment of reduced murder that's because it was the only option in the country concerned, whether or not it was intentional remains to be seen and that depends if he appeals.......just have to wait and see.....
 
...you certainly are......he may well of been found guilty for the moment of reduced murder that's because it was the only option in the country concerned, whether or not it was intentional remains to be seen and that depends if he appeals.......just have to wait and see.....

The post you replied to with your original question was regarding what he has been found guilty of, not whether it may change in the future.
 
When leaving him was a fatal mistake

Vetten said one reason why women are killed by their partners is that they try to leave.

The abusive partner&#8217;s thinking is &#8220;how dare you leave me, adding to my sense of humiliation?&#8221;

What these men see in a woman is a possession, something they own, and they think: &#8220;My things don&#8217;t leave me. How dare you leave?&#8221;

I hope some of you follow the Panayiotou and Henning trials next year. Nel is prosecuting in the Henning trial.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/when-leaving-him-was-a-fatal-mistake-1.1959635#.Vm1zITFuk4k
 
The post you replied to with your original question was regarding what he has been found guilty of, not whether it may change in the future.

...what i questioned was the use of the word "intentional" when intention hasn't been proved for the moment......
 
...i agree with this....despite out différences of opinion the discussion should remain respectful, attempts at turning one group against another takes away any credibility from the poster.....

The only place where I can see room for criticism in my posts has been where I said that thinking it was aimed at Reeva was a common sense view. I stand by that, I don't see it as disrespectful but truthful, albeit very direct. If you look at the SCA judgement it speaks of the reasonable person and makes other very similar remarks about the believability of Pistorius' version. If you take away the speculation that he acted to save his own life, you are left with a murder without a motive, or a murder of Reeva because he wanted to kill her when he shot her. There is way too much evidence that Masipa didn't even consider, as well as evidence that she considered piecemeal and rejected, which taken together added up to his version being a complete lie. Anyone who approaches this the same way Masipa did lacks common sense IMO. I don't see the point in beating about the bush.
 
Admin Note

There have been dozens of posts removed due to the constant back and forth attacking each other.

If it continues, it will result in the loss of posting privileges no questions asked.

I want to remind everyone that this is a DISCUSSION board. Not a board where someone posts their thoughts and then everyone has to agree. We don't have to agree and we can say why we don't agree, as long as we don't get personal about it.


BAITING, TROLLING, INCITING CONFLICT

“Trolling” or making posts with the intention of creating problems on the forums is obviously against the forum guidelines. This includes registering an alternative ID for the sole purpose of creating problems on the forums.

A member who visits WS only to incite "conflict" will be designated a "troll", and find his/her account temporarily or permanently suspended.

WS maintains zero tolerance for members who create posts intended to antagonize other members.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

IGNORE LIST

If you've got a couple of posters that you feel you just cannot bear reading, the "Ignore List" is your friend. When you put someone's name on your list you will not see their posts. The poster will have no way of knowing they are on your list (and it's a TOS violation to make an obnoxious post saying you are doing so, since there's no reason for it). Click on the link below:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/pro...?do=ignorelist
 
It has been proved and it is the verdict, he has been convicted of murder.

....without intention being proved......'might' of known or 'must' have known is not 'did' know.....personally i would of prefered a re-trial....
 
....without intention being proved......'might' of known or 'must' have known is not 'did' know.....personally i would of prefered a re-trial....

Personally, I'd have preferred an accused who didn't, after swearing an oath of truth before Almighty God, lie, obfuscate, tailor his evidence, refuse to take the Court into confidence, to answer honestly without being overly concerned about the consequences of his answers.

Moreover, I'd have preferred he hadn't shot and killed an innocent young girl and afterwards seen fit to celebrate the killing by holding a party of celebration after erroneously being found not guilty of her intentional murder.

I'd prefer, honestly, contrition and ideally atonement, healing and reconciliation. These would all be more welcome and fruitful than a retrial. As none of these are forthcoming...in short I prefer the SCA verdict.
 
Personally, I'd have preferred an accused who didn't, after swearing an oath of truth before Almighty God, lie, obfuscate, tailor his evidence, refuse to take the Court into confidence, to answer honestly without being overly concerned about the consequences of his answers.

Moreover, I'd have preferred he hadn't shot and killed an innocent young girl and afterwards seen fit to celebrate the killing by holding a party of celebration after erroneously being found not guilty of her intentional murder.

I'd prefer, honestly, contrition and ideally atonement, healing and reconciliation. These would all be more welcome and fruitful than a retrial. As none of these are forthcoming...in short I prefer the SCA verdict.
....the problem with the SCA verdict is quite simply that the evidence, proof and sentence haven't been resolved leaving the feeling of something missing......it seems like only half a jobs been done, not at all what i had expected from a court of that statue......
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
141
Guests online
2,200
Total visitors
2,341

Forum statistics

Threads
600,484
Messages
18,109,325
Members
230,991
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top