Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #68 *Appeal Verdict*

[aftermath]

ALTERNATE VERSION: The screams the prosecution claims were heard by eyewitnesses were after the first set of bangs-- the bat striking the toilet door after he had chased Reeva from the bedroom screaming "Get the Fukk out of My House" and she retreated into the locked toilet cubicle. Reeva knows she is in mortal danger and is screaming for her life. Oscar retrieves his pistol and fires 4X into the toilet door, silencing Reeva's screams. Oscar picks up the bat he has thrown aside (possibly damaging the bathtub cover plate) and uses it to pry open the toilet door panels gaining access to the key and opens the door. He sits with Reeva while she takes her last breath and it sinks in what he has done. His first thought is to make it appear to have been an intruder that he mistakenly shot. He runs to the balcony window and yells "Help, Help, Help!" before he returns to the bathroom and drags Reeva out of the toilet, calls Stander, Security, and Netcare. He carries her downstairs and is crying loudly in front of Dr. Stipp, the Standers and Baba from Security who arrive almost immediately.

I think most earwitnesses heard the three helps before the final set of bangs.

 

[Marfa Lights]

.............we don't know that the WC window was shut when she screamed.....

We also might safely assume she was screaming her head off as Oscar chased her down the passageway, bat in hand, yelling at her to "Get the fukk out of my house" and as soon as she slammed the toilet door shut he began whacking it with the bat.

 

[LemonMousse]

He testified to moving towards the bathroom, screaming at the intruder to get out and shouting back to Reeva to call the police. Whilst he didn't say he rushed along the corridor, even at a walking pace it wouldn't have taken very long, as it wasn't very far. And he didn't say he started shouting until he was in/ part way along the corridor, if I remember correctly.

So yes- he testified to screaming and shouting then stopping as he got to the bathroom, before looking from window to door a few times and screamed again to Reeva to call the police. But the defence didn't say these screams and shouts were persistent, non-stop with no break, and they didn’t say they were the screams and shouts that the earwitnesses heard. In fact, on the defence version, nobody heard those.

The screams the defence claims were heard by eyewitnesses were after the first set of bangs, when he discovered Reeva was not in the bedroom, realised that it was probably her in the cubicle, and desperately tried to get in to her. These, the defence claim, were the higher pitched screams of despair and panic as he realised what he had done and couldn't open the door (the screams mistaken as those of a woman), intermingled with the male cries for help.

He testified to screaming AND shouting heading down the corridor...not stopping until he got to the bathroom door, had a look and then started up again.

Your apologetics won't work here...it is fundamentally and profoundly ridiculous that he would be screaming and yelling AT ALL in a situation like that.

I know what the defence claims, thanks. It's a pack of lies. And your attempts to explain it all highlights very effectively indeed just what utter tripe it actually is.

A man confronting an intruder in the dead of night SCREAMS??????

No.

 

[Marfa Lights]

I think most earwitnesses heard the three helps before the final set of bangs.

Which witnesses please?

 

[Colin de France]

We also might safely assume she was screaming her head off as Oscar chased her down the passageway, bat in hand, yelling at her to "Get the fukk out of my house" and as soon as she slammed the toilet door shut he began whacking it with the bat.

....and that's where it gets stuck.....how did he go from there to intentionally killing her, it doesn't make sense that's why i'm sticking to the idea that the main intention on firing was to intimidate her....regardless if i'm the only one..

 

[aftermath]

He testified to screaming AND shouting heading down the corridor...not stopping until he got to the bathroom door, had a look and then started up again.

Your apologetics won't work here...it is fundamentally and profoundly ridiculous that he would be screaming and yelling AT ALL in a situation like that.

I know what the defence claims, thanks. It's a pack of lies. And your attempts to explain it all highlights very effectively indeed just what utter tripe it actually is.

A man confronting an intruder in the dead of night SCREAMS??????

No.

Depends on what he means when he says screams. If he means an unintelligible vocal sound of fear/horror, then I agree! If he is using it to describe the strength of his cries/shouts etc, then I don't.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I think most earwitnesses heard the three helps before the final set of bangs.

Not so, it was after the last sounds.

 

[Noisy Fan]

ALTERNATE VERSION: The screams the prosecution claims were heard by eyewitnesses were after the first set of bangs-- the bat striking the toilet door after he had chased Reeva from the bedroom screaming "Get the Fukk out of My House" and she retreated into the locked toilet cubicle. Reeva knows she is in mortal danger and is screaming for her life. Oscar retrieves his pistol and fires 4X into the toilet door, silencing Reeva's screams. Oscar picks up the bat he has thrown aside (possibly damaging the bathtub cover plate) and uses it to pry open the toilet door panels gaining access to the key and opens the door. He sits with Reeva while she takes her last breath and it sinks in what he has done. His first thought is to make it appear to have been an intruder that he mistakenly shot. He runs to the balcony window and yells "Help, Help, Help!" before he returns to the bathroom and drags Reeva out of the toilet, calls Stander, Security, and Netcare. He carries her downstairs and is crying loudly in front of Dr. Stipp, the Standers and Baba from Security who arrive almost immediately.

Well said ... and if there was a motive or if he had threatened a previous girlfriend with a gun ... or done more than slam a door in someones face but he had not and if there is a motive they were unable to convince me of one. As the latest judge put it they were an ordinary couple with a few ups and downs in their relationship. (something like that)

I will admit that if I sit and listen to all the bad things that Oscar ever did I end up with a pretty bad picture of him. It is Nel's job to paint that picture.

Then I do the same for me with my past and if I only consider my bad qualities I might turn myself in to the police for reckless behavior ... so, I try and figure out like everyone else why in the world this guy might want to shoot his girlfriend and I can't come up with anything ...

There are possibilities but that is all they are ...

 

[Interested Bystander]

Depends on what he means when he says screams. If he means an unintelligible vocal sound of fear/horror, then I agree! If he is using it to describe the strength of his cries/shouts etc, then I don't.

I am unsure why you are interpreting what he says was screams into an unintelligible vocal sounds. This was not his evidence.

 

[aftermath]

I am unsure why you are interpreting what he says was screams into an unintelligible vocal sounds. This was not his evidence.

I am trying to understand what the other poster is saying. I am not interpreting them that way. quite the opposite: my interpretation of his account of how he screamed in the corridor going up to possibly face an intruder is to describe how he shouted to the intruder to get out / and to Reeva ti call the police.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Well said ... and if there was a motive or if he had threatened a previous girlfriend with a gun ... or done more than slam a door in someones face but he had not and if there is a motive they were unable to convince me of one. As the latest judge put it they were an ordinary couple with a few ups and downs in their relationship. (something like that)

I will admit that if I sit and listen to all the bad things that Oscar ever did I end up with a pretty bad picture of him. It is Nel's job to paint that picture.

Then I do the same for me with my past and if I only consider my bad qualities I might turn myself in to the police for reckless behavior ... so, I try and figure out like everyone else why in the world this guy might want to shoot his girlfriend and I can't come up with anything ...

There are possibilities but that is all they are ...

It's not hard to imagine just about anything triggering a "red mist" rage in Oscar... model girlfriend up eating late at night, argument over phone calls/text messages from old girlfriends/boyfriends, Oscar in a foul mood from having a really bad meeting with his financial advisor earlier that day-- having received very bad news, whatever... it does not take much to send someone over the edge sometimes, especially problematic when they have a loaded gun at hand and are always looking for an excuse to fire it.

 

[Colin de France]

....where are we now regarding the countdown for the appeal to the CC.....i'm lost....

 

[Noisy Fan]

It's not hard to imagine just about anything triggering a "red mist" rage in Oscar... model girlfriend up eating late at night, argument over phone calls/text messages from old girlfriends/boyfriends, Oscar in a foul mood from having a really bad meeting with his financial advisor earlier that day-- having received very bad news, whatever... it does not take much to send someone over the edge sometimes, especially problematic when they have a loaded gun at hand and are always looking for an excuse to fire it.

Yea but ... I don't see anywhere where he used a gun in anger with anyone. He did shoot a dog that was suffering but that is not the same or in anger. The shot thru the sunroof was just plain stupid and was not in anger. The gun in the restaurant caught him by surprise being passed to him because he was told only that there was one up not that it also had the clip still in it. Still his fault for even receiving a loaded gun but again it was just plain stupid and not done in anger.

Not saying it couldn't happen but there is no history ...

 

[mrjitty]

Regarding 6., from a quick scan of the bail application, it looks as though Roux is seeking to argue that, as Masipa found that there was intention to shoot, the Defence of PPD should be available, in principle.

Yes - though that is only a legal inference - just as Masipa also "found" that he had no intention to kill the person behind the door.

These kind of findings can be disturbed.

This is where Masipa's poor drafting is really killing the defence!

 

[mrjitty]

The screams in the hallway were heard by Stipp - even on the defence's evidence

The problem is Roux had not authored the timeline by then - so it doesn't make sense.

 

[aftermath]

The screams in the hallway were heard by Stipp - even on the defence's evidence

The problem is Roux had not authored the timeline by then - so it doesn't make sense.

Dr Stipp didn't hear any screams or shouts before the first set of bangs, as it was these bangs that woke him.

 

[mrjitty]

Dr Stipp didn't hear any screams or shouts before the first set of bangs, as it was these bangs that woke him.

on the defences EVIDENCE

This is why OP testified to screaming before the shots

Remember the defence is not guaranteed that THE TIMELINE ® will be accepted in full.

Hence the need to have variation to cover different eventualities.

 

[JudgeJudi]

on the defences EVIDENCE

This is why OP testified to screaming before the shots

Remember the defence is not guaranteed that THE TIMELINE ® will be accepted in full.

Hence the need to have variation to cover different eventualities.

Hi there mrjitty,

I think we should join together in singing ...

Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone

Does it ever stop? That's why I prefer to roll and scroll. It is a never-ending circle.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yea but ... I don't see anywhere where he used a gun in anger with anyone. He did shoot a dog that was suffering but that is not the same or in anger. The shot thru the sunroof was just plain stupid and was not in anger. The gun in the restaurant caught him by surprise being passed to him because he was told only that there was one up not that it also had the clip still in it. Still his fault for even receiving a loaded gun but again it was just plain stupid and not done in anger.

Not saying it couldn't happen but there is no history ...

Before the first fatal shooting there is no history, otherwise it would not be the first time. But the first time is just as bad.
As it is with DV, probably everyone has noticed: mostly no one knows except the two parties.

 

[mrjitty]

Hi there mrjitty,

I think we should join together in singing ...

Round like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning reel
Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone

Does it ever stop? That's why I prefer to roll and scroll. It is a never-ending circle.

LOL

I haven't followed DS but it is interesting to see how debunked talking points get made on there and then also copied over here.

Anyone might thing Pistolius has a digital campaign underway