Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #69 *Appeal Verdict*

[Deleted member 102539]

Carice:
"The first thing I saw was Oscar carrying Reeva down the stairs," she said. "We were facing each other. He was walking rather fast. He was frantic – 'Carice, please, Carice, please, can we get her in the car and take her to the hospital'.

"He was begging me to put her in the car. I told him to put her down. I told him we just need to see what's going on. I just saw blood everywhere.
-.-.-.-
Stander:
"He was really crying, he was in pain, and he asked us to please assist him, to put Reeva in a car and take her to hospital.


It wasn't clarified why OP wanted to drive Reeva (in the state she was in) to the hospital. Who had told him (IF) and why and how provable at all.
To prove that it was his own idea to dissociate himself (and NOT to save Reeva), would have been beneficial.
JM had seen it from another perspective for sure ...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/05/oscar-pistorius-trial-reeva-steenkamp-shooting

 

[mrjitty]

You may well be right. Otherwise this is how it should have happened….

Pistorius: It’s not my ammunition it belongs to my father.

Masipa: And is your father going to back you up on that?

Pistorius: Well, actually, no

Masipa: In that case, guilty as charged

LOL - exactly.

It's almost impossible for the prosecution to ever prove intention to possess on that basis

Of course the intention of the regulation is that if you are knowingly in possession you are guilty

 

[Val1]

LOL - exactly.

It's almost impossible for the prosecution to ever prove intention to possess on that basis

Of course the intention of the regulation is that if you are knowingly in possession you are guilty

I believe Nel had provided this too...

 

[Val1]

Anyone know when Ivan Lin was commissioned to do his tests?

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/09/08/oscar-trial-day-34-july-1-lin-van-zyl/

"Nel wants to know when he completed this report and Lin responds that he just completed it the week prior."

"And all of this was done within the last two weeks prior to court."

 

[Belgarion]

LOL - exactly.

It's almost impossible for the prosecution to ever prove intention to possess on that basis

Of course the intention of the regulation is that if you are knowingly in possession you are guilty

Interestingly, the Firearms Control Act 2000 contains nearly 40 definitions for all manner of things, but the one thing it doesn’t define is ‘possession.’ Could it be those who drafted the Act assumed that it is so obvious it didn’t need defining. Then along came Masipa who in her attempts to refine 'possession' for the benefit of Pistorius created a loophole in an Act designed to control the owning and use of firearms. Just how stupid is that

 

[JudgeJudi]

This will be my last post until after Christmas, but there’s just a few things I’d like to say.

I just love WS and the wonderful people here. It’s a caring global family seeking truth and justice. We now know one another so well that we can often anticipate the reactions of one another. Everyone has invested so much time and effort into composing posts, researching and analysis, all of which shows how much we really care that justice is not only done but seen to be done for Reeva and her family.

Where would we be without Lisa's fantastic resources on Juror 13. They've helped us all.

Mrjitty’s knowledge and insight coupled with the fact that he explains things so succinctly has helped us have a better understanding of the technicalities of the law. Paul C, a Johnny-come-lately but so much appreciated, has a beautiful style of writing when expressing thoughts so many of us share.

And of course there’s our one and only Mr Fossil who has a technical brilliance none of us can match. Working together over the past year has increased our knowledge in many areas, been extremely thought-provoking, frustrating for each of us when we don’t agree but always ending in consensus, and an absolute pleasure. It’s also been tremendous fun – reconstructing a “toilet” in the lounge room, rearranging furniture, measuring objects and distances, running around the house with a list in one hand and a timer in the other, and the list goes on. I’ve loved every minute and may it continue in 2016.

And last but not least, the mods. How we’ve tried their patience with this long-running trial. These good people are unpaid and give their time freely to keep us all on the straight and narrow and they deserve a very big thank you. The forum is so much the better because of them.

I wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas

 

[Deleted member 102539]

:santahat: :sleigh: :christmastree:

Merry Christmas to all WSers!

 

[Fuskier]

This will be my last post until after Christmas, but there’s just a few things I’d like to say.

I just love WS and the wonderful people here. It’s a caring global family seeking truth and justice. We now know one another so well that we can often anticipate the reactions of one another. Everyone has invested so much time and effort into composing posts, researching and analysis, all of which shows how much we really care that justice is not only done but seen to be done for Reeva and her family.

Where would we be without Lisa's fantastic resources on Juror 13. They've helped us all.

Mrjitty’s knowledge and insight coupled with the fact that he explains things so succinctly has helped us have a better understanding of the technicalities of the law. Paul C, a Johnny-come-lately but so much appreciated, has a beautiful style of writing when expressing thoughts so many of us share.

And of course there’s our one and only Mr Fossil who has a technical brilliance none of us can match. Working together over the past year has increased our knowledge in many areas, been extremely thought-provoking, frustrating for each of us when we don’t agree but always ending in consensus, and an absolute pleasure. It’s also been tremendous fun – reconstructing a “toilet” in the lounge room, rearranging furniture, measuring objects and distances, running around the house with a list in one hand and a timer in the other, and the list goes on. I’ve loved every minute and may it continue in 2016.

And last but not least, the mods. How we’ve tried their patience with this long-running trial. These good people are unpaid and give their time freely to keep us all on the straight and narrow and they deserve a very big thank you. The forum is so much the better because of them.

I wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas

Thank you JudgeJudi. So well said. Totally agree and thank you for your insightful contributions and all your dedicated work. Best wishes :xmastree: :santahat:

 

[Tortoise]

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/09/08/oscar-trial-day-34-july-1-lin-van-zyl/

"Nel wants to know when he completed this report and Lin responds that he just completed it the week prior."

"And all of this was done within the last two weeks prior to court."

Thank you Val.

So this was not something Roux knew about when he vouched to bring expert evidence about the screams.

 

[Belgarion]

Thank you Val.

So this was not something Roux knew about when he vouched to bring expert evidence about the screams.

Not only was there no ‘expert evidence’ available to show ‘Pistorius screams like a woman’ when Roux stated he would bring as such to the court thereby misleading a witness but when Ivan Lin gave evidence he did not support Roux’s assertions either. In fact Lin conceded almost the opposite in saying is a matter of common sense that more often than not the difference between the male and female voice can be discerned and if a woman screams there will be a certain pitch and tonal character in her voice different to a male voice.

It is a matter of some regret that having heard all the evidence Masipa did not make reference to the only conclusion that can be drawn which is Roux deliberately and wilfully mislead a state witness on a very crucial part of her evidence.

For some reason the assessors were also suspiciously blind to this fact as well.

 

[Tortoise]

Not only was there no ‘expert evidence’ available to show ‘Pistorius screams like a woman’ when Roux stated he would bring as such to the court thereby misleading a witness but when Ivan Lin gave evidence he did not support Roux’s assertions either. In fact Lin conceded almost the opposite in saying is a matter of common sense that more often than not the difference between the male and female voice can be discerned and if a woman screams there will be a certain pitch and tonal character in her voice different to a male voice.

It is a matter of some regret that having heard all the evidence Masipa did not make reference to the only conclusion that can be drawn which is Roux deliberately and wilfully mislead a state witness on a very crucial part of her evidence.

For some reason the assessors were also suspiciously blind to this fact as well.

So true, and there is no earthly explanation for Stipp having heard male and female voices intermingled. Some really do believe he can perform miracles, he can discharge a gun without touching the trigger, he can scream like a man and a woman at the same time and he can tell the court one thing and make them believe another - that the fan was at the foot of the bed while appearing to be in the doorway. Make photographs lie! And Reeva could keep a meal undigested in her stomach for 8 hours. Any other miracles? How about getting his father to store ammo in his safe while not being in touch with him.

Assessors - is that really what they call themselves? I could think of a few names but assessors isn't one of them.

 

[Tortoise]

Oh yes, another one - he can conjure up pitch darkness in the bathroom and bedroom with the light on and the curtains open!

 

[saraomar]

I am in the beautiful mother city of capetown and it's gorgeous! This was reeva's home too for a bit and I can't help but feel sad that she is not here....
I have spoken to so many people, cab drivers, shop assistants and owners, wine estate owners, workers, marketing professionals, mothers, young working people, affluent people and they all say.....
Oscar pistorius is guilty as hell, they all believe he shot her in a fit of rage. Every single one of them believes his lawyers manipulated the language of law, and got him off due to an incompetent judge. They ALL feel proud and vindicated by the SCA judgement and are waiting for the day he is sent to prison with a fitting sentence, not the joke that masipa let him off with. They all also believe, the pistorius family has deep pockets and it has more to do with their pride than any love for Oscar, they want to protect their name as much as they can, they hold a lot of influence in this country and have had major political/judicial people on their payroll way before Oscar was even born.
They all do believe(hope) he cannot wriggle out of this through a legal loophole.
Let's us hope and pray for these South Africans, and the Steenkamp family, their hope and belief materializes very soon!
Merry x mas and happy new year to u all!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I am in the beautiful mother city of capetown and it's gorgeous! This was reeva's home too for a bit and I can't help but feel sad that she is not here....
I have spoken to so many people, cab drivers, shop assistants and owners, wine estate owners, workers, marketing professionals, mothers, young working people, affluent people and they all say.....
Oscar pistorius is guilty as hell, they all believe he shot her in a fit of rage. Every single one of them believes his lawyers manipulated the language of law, and got him off due to an incompetent judge. They ALL feel proud and vindicated by the SCA judgement and are waiting for the day he is sent to prison with a fitting sentence, not the joke that masipa let him off with. They all also believe, the pistorius family has deep pockets and it has more to do with their pride than any love for Oscar, they want to protect their name as much as they can, they hold a lot of influence in this country and have had major political/judicial people on their payroll way before Oscar was even born.
They all do believe(hope) he cannot wriggle out of this through a legal loophole.
Let's us hope and pray for these South Africans, and the Steenkamp family, their hope and belief materializes very soon!
Merry x mas and happy new year to u all!

Thank you and also thank you for your :gift: "Christmas gift": to have spoken to South Africans and to tell us their opinion! I feel relieved.

 

[mhiforme]

I am in the beautiful mother city of capetown and it's gorgeous! This was reeva's home too for a bit and I can't help but feel sad that she is not here....
I have spoken to so many people, cab drivers, shop assistants and owners, wine estate owners, workers, marketing professionals, mothers, young working people, affluent people and they all say.....
Oscar pistorius is guilty as hell, they all believe he shot her in a fit of rage. Every single one of them believes his lawyers manipulated the language of law, and got him off due to an incompetent judge. They ALL feel proud and vindicated by the SCA judgement and are waiting for the day he is sent to prison with a fitting sentence, not the joke that masipa let him off with. They all also believe, the pistorius family has deep pockets and it has more to do with their pride than any love for Oscar, they want to protect their name as much as they can, they hold a lot of influence in this country and have had major political/judicial people on their payroll way before Oscar was even born.
They all do believe(hope) he cannot wriggle out of this through a legal loophole.
Let's us hope and pray for these South Africans, and the Steenkamp family, their hope and belief materializes very soon!
Merry x mas and happy new year to u all!

BIB, so now we're seeking the public's validation to determine if Oscar is guilty. There's a reason we moved away from this long ago.

Here's some other numbers worth keeping in mind regarding the public:

42% of people believe the earth is 10,000 years old and that evolution is not real
20% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ

 

[mhiforme]

This will be my last post until after Christmas, but there’s just a few things I’d like to say.

I just love WS and the wonderful people here. It’s a caring global family seeking truth and justice. We now know one another so well that we can often anticipate the reactions of one another. Everyone has invested so much time and effort into composing posts, researching and analysis, all of which shows how much we really care that justice is not only done but seen to be done for Reeva and her family.

Where would we be without Lisa's fantastic resources on Juror 13. They've helped us all.

Mrjitty’s knowledge and insight coupled with the fact that he explains things so succinctly has helped us have a better understanding of the technicalities of the law. Paul C, a Johnny-come-lately but so much appreciated, has a beautiful style of writing when expressing thoughts so many of us share.

And of course there’s our one and only Mr Fossil who has a technical brilliance none of us can match. Working together over the past year has increased our knowledge in many areas, been extremely thought-provoking, frustrating for each of us when we don’t agree but always ending in consensus, and an absolute pleasure. It’s also been tremendous fun – reconstructing a “toilet” in the lounge room, rearranging furniture, measuring objects and distances, running around the house with a list in one hand and a timer in the other, and the list goes on. I’ve loved every minute and may it continue in 2016.

And last but not least, the mods. How we’ve tried their patience with this long-running trial. These good people are unpaid and give their time freely to keep us all on the straight and narrow and they deserve a very big thank you. The forum is so much the better because of them.

I wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas

Thanks JJ, it's been a fantastic year and it's hard to believe that another year is almost over.

I'd like to thank all those people that have come here to bring balance to this forum, you guys have been just amazing. I won't name all of you because there are just to many, but thank you for all your dedication.

I wish you and your loved ones a very Happy Kwanzaa

 

[Tortoise]

BIB, so now we're seeking the public's validation to determine if Oscar is guilty. There's a reason we moved away from this long ago.

Here's some other numbers worth keeping in mind regarding the public:

42% of people believe the earth is 10,000 years old and that evolution is not real
20% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ

We didn't move away from it, the jury system works very well.

 

[Greater Than]

BIB, so now we're seeking the public's validation to determine if Oscar is guilty. There's a reason we moved away from this long ago.

Here's some other numbers worth keeping in mind regarding the public:

42% of people believe the earth is 10,000 years old and that evolution is not real
20% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ

OP has always been overly concerned with his image and the public's perception of him, but now that the vast majority consider him a murderer the public's opinion is meaningless? Lol, how ironic.

 

[lisasalinger]

This will be my last post until after Christmas, but there’s just a few things I’d like to say.

I just love WS and the wonderful people here. It’s a caring global family seeking truth and justice. We now know one another so well that we can often anticipate the reactions of one another. Everyone has invested so much time and effort into composing posts, researching and analysis, all of which shows how much we really care that justice is not only done but seen to be done for Reeva and her family.

Where would we be without Lisa's fantastic resources on Juror 13. They've helped us all.

Mrjitty’s knowledge and insight coupled with the fact that he explains things so succinctly has helped us have a better understanding of the technicalities of the law. Paul C, a Johnny-come-lately but so much appreciated, has a beautiful style of writing when expressing thoughts so many of us share.

And of course there’s our one and only Mr Fossil who has a technical brilliance none of us can match. Working together over the past year has increased our knowledge in many areas, been extremely thought-provoking, frustrating for each of us when we don’t agree but always ending in consensus, and an absolute pleasure. It’s also been tremendous fun – reconstructing a “toilet” in the lounge room, rearranging furniture, measuring objects and distances, running around the house with a list in one hand and a timer in the other, and the list goes on. I’ve loved every minute and may it continue in 2016.

And last but not least, the mods. How we’ve tried their patience with this long-running trial. These good people are unpaid and give their time freely to keep us all on the straight and narrow and they deserve a very big thank you. The forum is so much the better because of them.

I wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas

Right back at ya, JJ... and to all the WSers & mods too. Wishing everybody the very best this holiday & always!

 

[saraomar]

BIB, so now we're seeking the public's validation to determine if Oscar is guilty. There's a reason we moved away from this long ago.

Here's some other numbers worth keeping in mind regarding the public:

42% of people believe the earth is 10,000 years old and that evolution is not real
20% of Republicans believe Obama is the anti-Christ

I am not seeking anyone's validation! I am simply stating what I have heard from every...single....actual South African I have spoken to so far! Not one....ONE.... Has sympathized with your precious pistorius! They all see and say what we non South Africans feel and say .... And that is very very comforting for me! I have every right to express my thoughts and opinions here on this forum, so please do not bore me with ridiculous stats that have nothing to do with your ludicrous poor boy supporting argument!
I frankly have no desire to respond to your ridiculous arguments and poor attempts to justify what this man has done! Boo Hoo u don't like what I say.... Because u r out numbered here and in SA! I know this post had annoyed and irritated u no end, and I love it! Your days are numbered! Ha ha ha ha!!!