Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

[cottonweaver]

I think some of his sentence will be suspended. He won't serve the entire time in prison given a sentence say of 10 years. He can't be given Correctional Supervision from what i've read because he's had the maximum allowed of 5 years for Culpable Homicide, even though this is resentencing for different conviction of Murder , it is taken into account what he was given before for CH, like time served (a pathetic year only). I don't think his entire sentence will be suspended, he'll have to do some prison time.

One thing i think we could all agree on is that the effect on the Familiy, ie Barry Steenkamp hit many a nerve and you couldn't have helped be moved by his testimony on how losing his daughter in such a brutal way will affect the rest of his life. If Judge Masipa takes this impact testimony into account, which i'm sure she will, anything less than Pistorius having seen to be 'paying for what he did' which was Barry's wish, would be a complete injustice and cause worldwide criticism of the SA Justice system and Pistorius being seen more of the victim in all this than Reeva.

BIB This is interesting and rings a bell - was that from the Carte Blanche Cloen?

As for the rest - if she can't see the difference between Barry's authenticity and OP & his Scholtz then I really do despair.
Having scanned thru he old judgement again , earlier this evening whilst I was replying to JJ, I wasn't keen on that comment where she says of the STK family's suffering: that nothing she could do or say ( via sentencing) would bring Reeva back, wtte.

Mmm I think they know that, it wasn't the point was it.....
she was laying the groundwork for her special sentencing under that Clause 275.1.... whatever..... The get out of jail free card.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Everyone here (and online in other places, SA attorneys included) is just guessing! Geez, Masipa could just as easily throw 25 years at him to regain her respect.

How many more days Really??? :smile:

Yep, we are all guessing. What is your guess?

 

[Cloen]

BIB True. I suppose the diff is some of these peeps have 20+ yrs in crim defence so we could say they are "informed" opinion. Well certainly, more informed than me.
It's a big decision, I reckon she will have got some help with this one.

I hope she consults Judge Leach.
There was a man who spoke on Sky News after the CH sentence was given who said something about her having consulted on her decision , he was a Judge, but i can't remember any names being given.

 

[cottonweaver]

He makes me feel very uncomfortable just hearing him talk about that night again, he has vacant cold eyes and even still manages to stumble over his words,hesitate and repeat even though he's supposed to be recounting truth of what happened that night.

snipped for just that BIB

did you see Jeremy Vine's* response to the prog ?

[video=twitter;746439437874270208]https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/746439437874270208[/video]

* leading UK broadcaster now presenter.

 

[cottonweaver]

I hope she consults Judge Leach.
There was a man who spoke on Sky News after the CH sentence was given who said something about her having consulted on her decision , he was a Judge, but i can't remember any names being given.

BIB Interesting but whoever she consulted can't have read her full Judgment, even members of public thought the reasoning was illogical.
Yes, mighty fine if it was leach or Mjedt, thought latter was on the ball too.

Has she got the humility though?

And so we go back to all our previous posts of wishing the SCA had done the sentencing, even though that was impracticable.

 

[Viper]

Yep, we are all guessing. What is your guess?

If I were Masipa, faced with this mess of a former national hero and the backlash that I received from my previous lenient sentence I would hit him hard with at least 25 years and then allow an appealate panel review of my decision. Masipa, I believe, is done with leniency for this coward, which was likely misplaced because of his former public status.

 

[Viper]

BIB True. I suppose the diff is some of these peeps have 20+ yrs in crim defence so we could say they are "informed" opinion. Well certainly, more informed than me.
It's a big decision, I reckon she will have got some help with this one.

None of them have a clue about what his sentence will be. They admit that, read their tweets!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

My guess is 10 years, minus 1 already served, 4-5 years suspended. Not what I think he deserves but he seems to lead a charmed life. I HOPE I AM WRONG.

Like many of us, I think he knew exactly who he was shooting at. I still cannot believe Masipa threw out all earwitness testimony. One female heard screaming and he was toast! He was lucky that Roux managed to befuddle Masipa so completely OR DID HE? I do wonder at times whether in fact Masipa and assessors rewrote the story in order to give him CH.

That made me chuckle.:giggle:

 

[cottonweaver]

None of them have a clue about what his sentence will be. They admit that, read their tweets!

this one's just a SA journalist, wrote the book with BBateman.

Might as well stack 'em up - can see if they're wrong very soon

[video=twitter;749884636185100288]https://twitter.com/MandyWiener/status/749884636185100288[/video]

some unhappy replies to this.

 

[Cloen]

If I were Masipa, faced with this mess of a former national hero and the backlash that I received from my previous lenient sentence I would hit him hard with at least 25 years and then allow an appealate panel review of my decision. Masipa, I believe, is done with leniency for this coward, which was likely misplaced because of his former public status.

he won't get 25 years, that's for Premeditated Murder
I think his status and fact he was able to pay a top Lawyer has meant he's been very very fortunate not to have been convicted with Murder Dolus Directus first time round,and he was fortunate that so many mistakes were made by the Police at the crime scene, and Botha messed it up at the very start too.

 

[Viper]

this one's just a SA journalist, wrote the book with BBateman.

Might as well stack 'em up - can see if they're wrong very soon

[video=twitter;749884636185100288]https://twitter.com/MandyWiener/status/749884636185100288[/video]

some unhappy replies to this.

Time will tell...

 

[Cloen]

BIB Interesting but whoever she consulted can't have read her full Judgment, even members of public thought the reasoning was illogical.
Yes, mighty fine if it was leach or Mjedt, thought latter was on the ball too.

Has she got the humility though?

And so we go back to all our previous posts of wishing the SCA had done the sentencing, even though that was impracticable.

I don't think she'll seriously consult Judges working still in the Court system in SA
I think she has someone she can consult though if she wants, i think it's like a Legal Guru, i think she will be very very careful this time to get it right, but really p*ssed that she has had her previous conviction overturned by SCA, that can't sit easy with her.

 

[cjmollett]

We have written an open letter to Barry Roux to ask him some questions about his conduct in court. Read here

 

[Viper]

he won't get 25 years, that's for Premeditated Murder
I think his status and fact he was able to pay a top Lawyer has meant he's been very very fortunate not to have been convicted with Murder Dolus Directus first time round,and he was fortunate that so many mistakes were made by the Police at the crime scene, and Botha messed it up at the very start too.

Time will tell...

 

[Cloen]

None of them have a clue about what his sentence will be. They admit that, read their tweets!

It's all speculation , what else can we do, but the guidelines have been given that Murder starts 15 years and top lawyers in SA have said what Masipa has to consider, not just Roux in Court, who wants him out of prison for any sentence, insultingly not acceptable given now that he's on a conviction of Murder this time.

 

[Viper]

It's all speculation , what else can we do, but the guidelines have been given that Murder starts 15 years and top lawyers in SA have said what Masipa has to consider, not just Roux in Court, who wants him out of prison for any sentence, insultingly not acceptable given now that he's on a conviction of Murder this time.

And if she gives him 25 years for murder, which is perfectly within the judicial guidelines, what say you? It would be appropriate and it would leave OP to an appeal whilst Judge Masipa retires in strength.

 

[Cloen]

From the SCA judgement: "Thus not only did he not know who was behind the door, he did not know whether that person in fact constituted any threat to him."

So you are not correct. The SCA determined that he did not know it was Reeva behind the door.

I think this is best way it is explained is to put the link to the actual Judgement to clarify , you have not interpreted the SCA Judgement correctly.

It does not matter who was behind the door >> the SCA findings were :
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2...om-the-sca-s-judgment-against-oscar-pistorius

7) On whether dolus eventualis can be applied when someone does not "know" the identity of their victim:

"In this regard, it is necessary to stress that although a perpetrator’s intention to kill must relate to the person killed, this does not mean that a perpetrator must know or appreciate the identity of the victim. A person who causes a bomb to explode in a crowded place will probably be ignorant of the identity of his or her victims, but will nevertheless have the intention to kill those who might die in the resultant explosion.

"...By confining its assessment of dolus eventualis to whether the accused had foreseen that it was Reeva behind the door, the trial court misdirected itself as to the appropriate legal issue."



8 . On the high court failing to take evidence into account:

"In this regard, the failure of the court to take into account the evidence of Captain [Chris] Mangena, a police forensic expert, whose evidence as to the reconstruction of the crime scene was found by the court to have been ‘particularly useful’, is of particular importance.

"All of this was circumstantial evidence crucial to a decision on whether the accused, at the time he fired the fatal four shots, must have foreseen, and therefore did foresee, the potentially fatal consequences of his action. And yet this evidence was seemingly ignored by the trial court in its assessment of the presence of dolus eventualis. Had it been taken into account, the decision in regard to the absence of dolus eventualis may well have been different. In the light of the authorities I have mentioned, to seemingly disregard it must be regarded as an error in law."

 

[Cloen]

This was interesting too, this shows that Pistorius never told the truth in court, a reminder of his contradictions during his trial
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2...om-the-sca-s-judgment-against-oscar-pistorius

4) On Oscar's story 'changing':

"With ample justification, the court found the accused to have been ‘a very poor witness’. His version varied substantially. At the outset he stated that he had fired the four shots ‘before I knew it’ and at a time when he was not sure if there was somebody in the toilet. This soon changed to a version that he had fired as he believed that whoever was in the toilet was going to come out to attack him.



"He later changed this to say that he had never intended to shoot at all; that he had not fired at the door on purpose and that he had not wanted to shoot at any intruder coming out of the toilet. In the light of these contradictions, one really does not know what his explanation is for having fired the fatal shots..."

 

[Cloen]

And if she gives him 25 years for murder, which is perfectly within the judicial guidelines, what say you? It would be appropriate and it would leave OP to an appeal whilst Judge Masipa retires in strength.

It's unrealistic and won't happen
But i would welcome that sentence, but it's Murder DE, so he won't get that from Judge Masipa or any Judge.
If he had a retrial and a Judge who controlled the Court , and who stopped Roux twisting what the Prosecution witnesses were saying and interrupted them everytime they were saying things that were damaging to Pistorius, then yes , i think he could have got a very long sentence, so much was wrong in the first trial.

Roux badgered the witnesses, especially the neighbours who were there to testify having heard Reeva's screams, all pushed aside and confused by Roux, who turned those screams into Oscar having done all the screaming (but that's what he probably told Roux because he'd read all the witness statements in preparation for Court and knew what to spin to his Lawyers) . Absurd.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Actually that would be my personal preference. So lets all hope Masipa blows this thing entirely so that competent jurists can throw the book at Osca!

:bricks:

I've held this view for quite a while. The SCA judges would be far more experienced and competent than Masipa and likely to deliver an appropriate sentence without her obvious bias.