Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

[cottonweaver]

Have you had this link here already?

What Masipa’s judgment served to do was to reinforce the belief—and reality for many—that in South Africa people experience different kinds of justice based on class, race and privilege.

As someone who spends a great deal of time in the country’s courts, I was not surprised by her sentencing decision and, like many of our legal experts, had predicted a seven-to-10 year sentence. Masipa’s finding has to be considered in the context of the specifics of this particular case and she had to weigh up the factors pertinent to the incident. As the judge herself stressed, she presides over a court of law, not a court of public opinion.

But when you step out of the legal realm and into reality, how do you explain to the average person that a six-year jail term—which in all likelihood will translate to three years of time behind bars—is sufficient for taking a life? And what message does that send to society about the punishment for murder?

http://europe.newsweek.com/oscar-pistorius-sentence-reeva-steenkamp-478327

Despite appreciating the BIB, it fascinates me, in a bad way!, that masipa chose to go with 6 and not 10 years or a number close to that.

 

[Viper]

BIB - and you can see why. I mean, look at how the murderer's escalating bad behaviour was allowed to escalate without any repercussions. Plus his siblings must have been very confident they could get away with crime scene tampering, evidenced by the fact they did get away with it. They've been the untouchables. And now with this hilariously short sentence, they must be clapping their hands with glee. Murder = 3 years served. Couldn't really get much better than that for them.

I for one have nearly accepted this "short" sentence because it appears that SA has become so liberal in its approach to jailing criminals that it really does believe much more strongly in rehabilitation than retribution. The fact that parole is available after serving only 50% of a sentence is proof, It is just the way they see it.

Six years for Murder does seem laughable, but google Jub Jub and then compare. He ran over school children while racing, drunk. Four children dead and others maimed for life; his 25 year sentence was downgraded by the SCA to 10 years. Not an identical case but Murder just the same, four counts, and the SCA saw ten years as justice.

If Masipa had give OP eight years, in reality an extra 12 months to serve, would it have really changed anything? And looking at Jub Jub it appears that Masipa is really not that far off from the minds of the SCA justices. Sorry...

 

[Sherbert]

http://europe.newsweek.com/oscar-pistorius-sentence-win-white-privilege-478736?utm

Another good article

I'm not sure it's directly about being white, though. In every country it's the same - money is power. Look at OJ - he could afford the dream team, which placed him in a far better position to defend the charges against him than most.

As I see it, Pistorius has been extremely lucky because the judge is unsound: Her understanding of the law is weak and she has a perverse and stubborn way of looking at things.

When asked in interview about the public criticism of her, she responded that the public were disappointed with the outcome, not with her. Again, rather a strange analysis, given that she was integral to the outcome. No - the public were disappointed in her for throwing out the compelling screams testimony and arriving at a verdict that did not match the evidence.

 

[Viper]

I think it's one of the things that made the Pistorius case on the CH /DE border rather than a more straightforward CH. Mdunge fired once, and the fact that the door was opening provides a rational albeit mistaken basis for believing an attack was beginning. Pistorius fired four times (so on that alone should receive a steeper sentence than Mdunge). He also preempted the door opening. on his version he thought he heard it opening and reacted, but as the door didn't open, it was another mistake. Since the door didn't actually open, there was a much less/no rational basis to believe an attack has started. Hence a custodial sentence.

Pistorius reacted to a sound without waiting for visual confirmation of a) the door opening and b) an intruder appearing and c) the intruder having deadly intent towards him. Mdunge waited for a) before firing, but not b) or c).

IIRC that incident and its resolution in court occurred shortly before OP murdered Reeva; all Roux had to do was copy and paste those details in to OPs affidavit "fairytale." And the entire nation, OP included, surely they all knew of the details so he himself could easily craft the same scenerio, and he did.

 

[Hazy]

I for one have nearly accepted this "short" sentence because it appears that SA has become so liberal in its approach to jailing criminals that it really does believe much more strongly in rehabilitation than retribution. The fact that parole is available after serving only 50% of a sentence is proof, It is just the way they see it.

Six years for Murder does seem laughable, but google Jub Jub and then compare. He ran over school children while racing, drunk. Four children dead and others maimed for life; his 25 year sentence was downgraded by the SCA to 10 years. Not an identical case but Murder just the same, four counts, and the SCA saw ten years as justice.

If Masipa had give OP eight years, in reality an extra 12 months to serve, would it have really changed anything? And looking at Jub Jub it appears that Masipa is really not that far off from the minds of the SCA justices. Sorry...

But wasn't that case downgraded from murder to CH ?

 

[Viper]

But wasn't that case downgraded from murder to CH ?

I have no idea! :smile: I just know there are four dead school children and at least two other kids with brain damage and yet the SCA sees 10 years as adequate retribution.

 

[Hazy]

I have no idea! :smile: I just know there are four dead school children and at least two other kids with brain damage and yet the SCA sees 10 years as adequate retribution.

It was indeed a shocking case but I understand that it was downgraded as there was no intention to kill. Therefore the lesser sentence for CH has to be less than that for murder thus reinforcing the premise that a murder charge is more severe and requires harsher punishment.

I'm not saying that 10 years is right or wrong here

 

[Tortoise]

I for one have nearly accepted this "short" sentence because it appears that SA has become so liberal in its approach to jailing criminals that it really does believe much more strongly in rehabilitation than retribution. The fact that parole is available after serving only 50% of a sentence is proof, It is just the way they see it.

Six years for Murder does seem laughable, but google Jub Jub and then compare. He ran over school children while racing, drunk. Four children dead and others maimed for life; his 25 year sentence was downgraded by the SCA to 10 years. Not an identical case but Murder just the same, four counts, and the SCA saw ten years as justice.

If Masipa had give OP eight years, in reality an extra 12 months to serve, would it have really changed anything? And looking at Jub Jub it appears that Masipa is really not that far off from the minds of the SCA justices. Sorry...

I don't see why you would compare it with 8 though, and not 15.

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm not sure it's directly about being white, though. In every country it's the same - money is power. Look at OJ - he could afford the dream team, which placed him in a far better position to defend the charges against him than most.

As I see it, Pistorius has been extremely lucky because the judge is unsound: Her understanding of the law is weak and she has a perverse and stubborn way of looking at things..

RSBM

BIB Totally.
Minister Masutha makes the same sorts of points, in reference to race & gender.

But for me, the reason for the furore, anger, shock feeds into the debate about inequality, fuels the deep divides which are riven by race - so there is no escaping from this.

Nobody cares about OP,on a personal level, well I certainly don't. He's the pebble dropped in the pool, the ripples are the issue now.
-the question marks around Precedent
-"old" issues about latitude in S & Compelling deviations
- her interpretation of the SCA judgment

These are concerns of the SCA, whether or not NPA decides to go forward with this appeal .

Maybe they have already decided they will hear it on that basis, not for the sake of a measly, say, 4 more years added to his sentence.

 

[cottonweaver]

I for one have nearly accepted this "short" sentence because it appears that SA has become so liberal in its approach to jailing criminals that it really does believe much more strongly in rehabilitation than retribution. The fact that parole is available after serving only 50% of a sentence is proof, It is just the way they see it.

RSBM

Yes, you have to have your SA perspective when you look at the sentence. This is why it was always going to be a short one. That's why no-one was ever gone give this the 20+ yr sentence you hoped for /posted about before the hearing/judgement.

As Mandy Weiner reminds us, they view their Constitution as one of the most "advanced " in the world. ( And this helps explain their liberal attitudes, punishment, offender rights. )

Regardless of being aware of these things, I stlll feel the SCA may still want to review this one. When I read that judgment in full, I might change my mind.

 

[Cherwell]

It concerns me that Masipa's extraordinary not guilty verdict on the charge of illegal possession of ammunition went uncontested.
Surely this has set an extremely dangerous precedent, yet it seems to have been swept under the carpet.

 

[cottonweaver]

It concerns me that Masipa's extraordinary not guilty verdict on the charge of illegal possession of ammunition went uncontested.
Surely this has set an extremely dangerous precedent, yet it seems to have been swept under the carpet.

Yes indeed, thanks for lifting that carpet.
Now this is an old matter that certainly needs fresh attention - will it happen though - pfft!

 

[Tortoise]

It concerns me that Masipa's extraordinary not guilty verdict on the charge of illegal possession of ammunition went uncontested.
Surely this has set an extremely dangerous precedent, yet it seems to have been swept under the carpet.

Yes, I don't understand why it wasn't appealed, especially since they were going to the SCA anyway.

 

[Viper]

RSBM

Yes, you have to have your SA perspective when you look at the sentence. This is why it was always going to be a short one. That's why no-one was ever gone give this the 20+ yr sentence you hoped for /posted about before the hearing/judgement.

As Mandy Weiner reminds us, they view their Constitution as one of the most "advanced " in the world. ( And this helps explain their liberal attitudes, punishment, offender rights. )

Regardless of being aware of these things, I stlll feel the SCA may still want to review this one. When I read that judgment in full, I might change my mind.

I beg your pardon? I've read 5 or 6 SCA Culpable Homicide and Murder decisions, they were very consistent in sentencing, it was repetitive; Murder was consistently 25 years. Also, it is only since new legislation that parole eligibility was reduced from 75% time served to 50% time served. Liberal beliefs are changing SA penal programs.

With this being perhaps the nation's most high profile murder case in recent memory I did expect Masipa to be hard in sentencing and 25 years was a possibility, as much of a possibility as 6, 7, 10, 12, 17, etc... Until the sentence was actually handed down all guesses were just that, guesses.

 

[Viper]

It was indeed a shocking case but I understand that it was downgraded as there was no intention to kill. Therefore the lesser sentence for CH has to be less than that for murder thus reinforcing the premise that a murder charge is more severe and requires harsher punishment.

I'm not saying that 10 years is right or wrong here

For his original conviction for Murder he received a 25 year sentence, IIRC. And he was a first offender, also IIRC. Let me know if that is correct. TY

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes indeed, thanks for lifting that carpet.
Now this is an old matter that certainly needs fresh attention - will it happen though - pfft!

I've always been puzzled why this wasn't given some attention after the first sentence. It was clear that it was OP's ammo and not that of his father, not to mention the fact that Henke wouldn't provide an affidavit saying that it was his. In any event, it wouldn't have affected his sentence because even if he was found guilty, the sentences would have run concurrently, not cumulatively like many thought.

 

[Hazy]

For his original conviction for Murder he received a 25 year sentence, IIRC. And he was a first offender, also IIRC. Let me know if that is correct. TY

I was not making a point about the number of years that were given to him but that a sentence for murder should be greater than for a sentence of CH.

I hope that's clear

 

[Cherwell]

I've always been puzzled why this wasn't given some attention after the first sentence. It was clear that it was OP's ammo and not that of his father, not to mention the fact that Henke wouldn't provide an affidavit saying that it was his. In any event, it wouldn't have affected his sentence because even if he was found guilty, the sentences would have run concurrently, not cumulatively like many thought.

Perhaps somebody on twitter could ask Prof Grant or Brenda Wardle or another friendly legal authority about this.

 

[JudgeJudi]

For his original conviction for Murder he received a 25 year sentence, IIRC. And he was a first offender, also IIRC. Let me know if that is correct. TY

It seems there’s a bit of confusion re the “Jub Jub” sentence.

“The Protea Magistrate's Court sentenced musician Molemo "Jub Jub" Maarohanye and Themba Tshabalala to 20 years imprisonment each on Wednesday for murder.

"You did not premeditate the accident, it happened... The court cannot impose the life sentence," Magistrate Brian Nemavhidi said.

They were sentenced to four years for attempted murder.

For use of drugs, driving under the influence of drugs and racing on a public road, the pair were sentenced to a year for each count, to run concurrently.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Jub-Jub-gets-20-years-for-murder-20121205

 

[Viper]

It seems there’s a bit of confusion re the “Jub Jub” sentence.

“The Protea Magistrate's Court sentenced musician Molemo "Jub Jub" Maarohanye and Themba Tshabalala to 20 years imprisonment each on Wednesday for murder.

"You did not premeditate the accident, it happened... The court cannot impose the life sentence," Magistrate Brian Nemavhidi said.

They were sentenced to four years for attempted murder.

For use of drugs, driving under the influence of drugs and racing on a public road, the pair were sentenced to a year for each count, to run concurrently.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Jub-Jub-gets-20-years-for-murder-20121205

OK thanks for the clarification! So 20 years for Murder, DE.